Two final fixes for crafting

Having spent some time crafting, I feel 1.21 was amazing for making the crafting system a rewarding experience.

Quality matters in the leveling process, abilities may be used more strategically, items aren't constantly destabilizing for no reason and the player has time to think out their next move.

That said, I feel there's two final issues that need to be addressed: static access to leves and "one-class-melds-all."

Static Access

Battle classes get it. As do DoLs. So why do DoHs have to spend hours not playing their class just to gain exp?

Crafting leves seem plentiful at first. But around level 30, a huge issue arises. Those leves are either below a worthwhile level or just not there at all.

By level 40 it's rare for a crafter to get any leves that would net them any reasonable experience. Heck, since I crested 40 with my carpenter, I've yet to see a level 40 leve.

Which means my carpenter, now 42, has to resort to repeating the same simple recipe over and over. I've been making Ash Masks for a long time now and will have to do so all the way to 50.

But due to the unbalanced economy, materials are severely overpriced. That means that in order to level a DoH a player has two choices: level a DoH or bite the bullet and farm Gil to afford the cost of mats.

This is further compounded by the need for shards. A stack of which may cost upwards of 200,000 Gil and may last only a portion of a level.

That's a lot of time spent not playing a class you want to play for little return in the end.

Now I'm not saying leveling a DoH needs to be easier or faster. Just that if someone wants to level a Weaver they should have the means to do just that. It feels more like actual game play if I get an order, make the item and travel out to deliver it.

But if static access offers "too much exp too quick" I'd be content with a lowering of the total exp per leve. After all, the point of the idea is to play a craft, not just to cap out as quick as possible.

One-class-melds-all

You wouldn't take your shirt to a cook and ask them to upgrade it, right?

But the thing is, you don't use the tools of the trade to affix materia. Before I go further, let's look at the key items.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Materia Assimilator

A complicated-looking device that reduces an item with a complete spiritbond to Aether, and then recrystalizes the resulting residue into a concentrated substance known as materia.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Materia Melder

A small handheld device used to affix materia onto weapons and armor.

---

From the descriptions, it's clear that both processes use their own unique tools. Yet one can be performed by any class at any level and the other requires two specific conditions be met -- level and class.

I suggest removing the class requirement but retaining the level requirement. Instead of a class requirement, it should be changed to "a Disciple of the Hand of level X." The idea being that it still takes some level of skill to use the melder, but that the melder is no different when used by a carpenter than when it is used by a blacksmith.

This will help prevent issues that may devaluate a player's efforts. Let's say a lancer wants to meld the best possible lance. They take their time and level carpenter and start the process of trying to multi-meld an HQ weapon. But a patch comes along with some new recipes and the best lance now is made, and thus melded, by blacksmith.

Now that lancer either has to level a whole new craft or or go back to square one of giving expensive items to strangers in hopes they're an honest person. Either way, their craft now is less useful to them as a whole character.

Of course, SE could come out and say "LNC/ARC/CNJ weapons will always be Crp, THM/PUG will always be GSM, and GLA/MRD will always be BSM." But that's already. Of the case. Although unmeldable, Ifrit weapons were all GSM. PUG has weapons from LTH, GSM and BSM. It adds to the world to have weapon creation vary.

Conclusion

Both of these ideas are focused on one thing: balancing the economy. Currently, the economy is driven by overpriced materials.

But how did we get there? Simple, overcrowding.

When the game was released, the rate at which durability degraded necessitated leveling crafts based on a player's chosen main battle class. Thankfully, steps were taken to nullify that sense. Freeing players to level crafts at will, if at all.

Until materia.

Now to be a properly-geared player, we have two choices: level crafts or trust high-priced items in the hands of strangers.

But because leveling crafts is dependabt of mass crafting recipes repetitively, the player is further necessitated to level at least on supporting DoL, if not all three.

So now we have people who are leveling multiple DoLs and DoHs just for the act of melding.

That's why I feel these two ideas go hand-in-hand.

These combined would allow a player to level one craft, free of leveling a DoL, to meld their own gear. Thus reducing the total number of crafts and gathered competing in the wards.

Furthermore, it frees a player to not feel obligated to level a DoH at all. Everyone knows at least one person with one craft at 50 they can trust enough with expensive melds.

The impact on the economy would be that there would be a more natural level of suppliers and buyers. Because right now it's not a matter of "Where is there a need" but "What do I need?"

TL;DR

Static access to leves means fewer total DoLs in the market. One-DoH-melds-all means fewer total DoHs in the market. Combined they make for a more natural economy governed by supply and demand opposed to the current one where an inflated amount of craters and suppliers toss their overpriced scraps in the wards and forget them.

I did the grind on crp without any leves whatsoever, i lost more gil doing the lower level stuff on shards than anything else. From the time i hit lv 40 til the time i hit lv 50 i had made 2.2 million npc'ing items made from ingredients from the market wards, about 1 million from cobalt arrows, also from the market wards, and used some of that for the top level dated masks i could make. overall i netted money easily in the last "longest" levels by just paying attention to what i make and what time of day i try to sell them. Alot of crafts have similar options, obviously not all as lucrative, but effective nonetheless and close to break-even synthing. DoH also has the option of talkin to DoL people who are looking to sell their items faster and cheaper to save the trouble of having it on the wards. Will they all do it? no. but there are enough to give you a steady supply. DoH has to play the economy game from all aspects to avoid situations like the one you've run into, but that is part of the fun for me, personally. For this same reason, enjoyment of the total system, i don't think each class should be able to meld. i'd like to see it kept how it is now for materia.

I agree with one class melds all, totally for it

Quote:

---

This is further compounded by the need for shards. A stack of which may cost upwards of 200,000 Gil and may last only a portion of a level.

---

with 1.21 it's quite easy to be earning ~2,000 exp on a synth. at that it's about 50 synths to gain a level even at the top end 49-50. if you're burning a full stack of shards and not gaining a level you're doing something wrong.

Quote:

---

I suggest removing the class requirement but retaining the level requirement. Instead of a class requirement, it should be changed to "a Disciple of the Hand of level X." The idea being that it still takes some level of skill to use the melder, but that the melder is no different when used by a carpenter than when it is used by a blacksmith.

---

when you meld you still use your tools. everytime i try and multimeld shields i see my guy using his hammer. and i believe yoshi p once said. "materia is the end game of disciples of the hand" or something to that effect. personally i meld quite a few things for quite a few people. never heard of anyone running off with anyones materia or stealing or such. pretty sure you could just gm anyone who did. my common practice if i'm multi melding for people is i'll tell them the chance of success and they say yes or no.

the idea that any craft can meld anything imo sends a great big screw you out to disciples of the hand. the way it is helps distinguish trades. which falls back to the original problem of dow/dom where there was nothing to distinguish one from another except the weapon in your hand. any class could use any ability and there was no real discerment between classes which is why they've been changed so many times to try and add uniqueness. what you suggest basically put doh in the very same place.

or to put it this way. how would a blacksmith know how to stitch materia to my robe. or how would a weaver know how to weld materia to my sword?

I'm sorry, but if you're losing money on CRP, you're doing something really wrong.

Quote:

---

everytime i try and multimeld shields i see my guy using his hammer

---

And every time my character had converted an item he's materialized a swirling vortex of light between his hands. Just because the animation doesn't show the described special items in use doesn't mean that's not the intent.

One DoH being able to meld any item wouldn't be a "screw you" to DoHs at all. What's so distinguishing about being able to meld only certain items?

The distinguishing factor of DoH is the items which they make.

Quote:

---

or to put it this way. how would a blacksmith know how to stitch materia to my robe. or how would a weaver know how to weld materia to my sword?

---

That was the point of showing the descriptions of the key items. The process has nothing to do with the craft it requires.

In-game, there's a book called "Life, Materia and Everything" says:

Quote:

---

Section I - Required Ingredients
Melding a piece of materia to an item of equipment cannot be achieved via conventional means─a compatible catalyst is required. Catalysts serve to stabilize materia, allowing them to merge with host items.※ Catalysts are consumed during the melding process. Not all catalysts are suitable for use with all materia. Similarly, specific materia can only be attached to certain types of equipment.※ The mechanism by which materia appears to select or reject its mate is the subject of a separate study.

---

A weaver doesn't stitch materia onto a robe. They use the melder to cause the catalyst to magically fuse the materia to a robe.

Why is it that it shows a weaver using their thread and needle and not the melder? Because it was an animation already on the game accessible to a production team behind schedule. Which likely also I'd the reason that despite the assimilator being a "complicated-looking device" all we see is that swirling vortex of light between our character's hands.

Melding doesn't distinguish one craft from another. The class restriction is arbitrary to the game's explanation of how the process is completed.

But to those steadfast in a position against one class melding, I propose this question.

Why is it okay for one aspect of the process -- converting -- to be done by anyone at any level where as melding has such stringent requirements when they both use unique tools to magically alter the state of a crafted item?

In my head it has always been something along the lines of "to affix materia to an armor you need to understand how it is made". I might want to power up my computer, speed up my car, improve my lamp or dishwasher, but if i have no idea how these are actually put together or how they're actually made then i can't improve upon it. I know how electricity works in theory, but could i build or improve a turbine to produce it? nope. I know how a motherboard functions, but could i build one or improve it? again nope.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peptaru

In my head it has always been something along the lines of "to affix materia to an armor you need to understand how it is made". I might want to power up my computer, speed up my car, improve my lamp or dishwasher, but if i have no idea how these are actually put together or how they're actually made then i can't improve upon it. I know how electricity works in theory, but could i build or improve a turbine to produce it? nope. I know how a motherboard functions, but could i build one or improve it? again nope.

---

I understand what you mean.

Going with the real world examples; if I buy a new car then come home and put my old car in a machine that that reduces the whole thing to a magic vapor and turns said vapor into a little crystal ball that can make my new car 10% faster, I doubt whether or not I can understand the articles in Popular Mechanics makes a difference in my ability to do more magic alterations.

That's why I brought up the descriptions of the key items. The melder and assimilatot are their own tools, despite the animations.

What do I need to know about cars to take some magic matter and use a melder to fuse my magic Speed +10% crystal, which used to be a whole car, onto my new car?

If anything, I'd suggest melding be its own class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephrick

I understand what you mean.

Going with the real world examples; if I buy a new car then come home and put my old car in a machine that that reduces the whole thing to a magic vapor and turns said vapor into a little crystal ball that can make my new car 10% faster, I doubt whether or not I can understand the articles in Popular Mechanics makes a difference in my ability to do more magic alterations.

That's why I brought up the descriptions of the key items. The melder and assimilatot are their own tools, despite the animations.

What do I need to know about cars to take some magic matter and use a melder to fuse my magic Speed +10% crystal, which used to be a whole car, onto my new car?

If anything, I'd suggest melding be its own class.

---

That's not a real world example.

Lol Sorry man, but you picked the Wrong things. You are correct that Crafting Needs only Two more fixes though.

Full Recipe Book

Switch from List of skills to Action bar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

Lol Sorry man, but you picked the Wrong things. You are correct that Crafting Needs only Two more fixes though.

Full Recipe Book

Switch from List of skills to Action bar.

---

Both of those are said to be coming. I was aiming more for things that are on the fence or not mentioned.

Quote:

---

That's not a real world example.

---

Well, that's because in the real world you can't turn your car, or shirt, or a stick with a sharpened piece of bone on the end of it into a magic piece of crystal.

I was merely using a real item in an example since the person to which I responded was using real world items.

You're literal response doesn't change the point of my example. The key items used for materia are their own separate tools despite the game animations and as such the "experience with the items" excuse isn't a very solid one.

And as yet another question to people against the "one-materia-does-all" idea I ask this: If you need experience with the item to which you're melding, why don't you also need experience with the melder itself?

So a weaver knows all their is about Linen Deerstalkers. That automatically gives them the knowledge of how to use a magic device to use a mysterious matter to fuse a crystal into those Deerstalkers?

I say experience with any craft should be enough to meld any item.

But again, this isn't about that. It's mainly about fixing the economy by weeding out the "I have to" to leave only the "I want to."

It was asked in the latest poll about one class melds all, and one class repairs all.

I guess time will tell what the outcome of the community want, I believe the poll is due to finish around the 26th and there is a producer letter scheduled for around the same time.

I agree with their not being enough leves for crafting classes, hopefully with hamlet defence though some of the pressure of continuous grinding will be alleviated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephrick

Both of those are said to be coming. I was aiming more for things that are on the fence or not mentioned.



Well, that's because in the real world you can't turn your car, or shirt, or a stick with a sharpened piece of bone on the end of it into a magic piece of crystal.

I was merely using a real item in an example since the person to which I responded was using real world items.

Your literal response doesn't change the point of my example. The key items used for materia are their own separate tools despite the game animations and as such the "experience with the items" excuse isn't a very solid one.

And as yet another question to people against the "one-materia-does-all" idea I ask this: If you need experience with the item to which you're melding, why don't you also need experience with the melder itself?

So a weaver knows all their is about Linen Deerstalkers. That automatically gives them the knowledge of how to use a magic device to use a mysterious matter to fuse a crystal into those Deerstalkers?

I say experience with any craft should be enough to meld any item.

But again, this isn't about that. It's mainly about fixing the economy by weeding out the "I have to" to leave only the "I want to."

---

With that logic, why not just have any class repair any item.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asmeret

With that logic, why not just have any class repair any item.

---

For the same reason we have the system we do now -- because it's a video game and that's what the developer decided upon.

But clearly they're considering changing things to something like what I suggested as in the Player's Poll they asked exactly that question.

Totally not agree.
All class meld materia will soon raise discuss on all class repair, then all class recipes??
I think the idea of having different crafting classes / gathering classes explains all. Because SE (and I) think that it is not reasonable for a cook to make an armor or weapon. Same logic to repairing and melding.

Damn, you guys don't get it at all. The OP is saying that to use materia and meld materia, all you need to do is be able to use the two magical devices that are required. Meaning any idiot can pick up the machine and make it go, so why does it have to be restricted to classes involved in the craft you're improving?

No part of the original crafting skill is necessary in this. It is all done "magically" using the two devices. Therefore, it makes no logical sense to restrict it to any particular class. Anyone should be able to just use these items, the same as anyone can use a computer, or operate a cell phone. You just push buttons, and it runs.

Hey one thing i would love to see adds to crafting is when making say wibd shards you use 1 fish to male 12 shards.
Well it takes for ever to turn 1 fish into 12 shards why are we waisting 7 open slots why can we not fill it up with 8 fish and tirn that
Into 96 shards SE used this idea on a slight way with being ablr to use 1 or 3 ingots into 1 or 3 rings to me
It jusy seems like its a half ass job and thought on the crafting. Just loke all the gear for DOH with all the stat bonuses but yet cnj and thm have hardly any gear I think they really need to focus on crafting now it just seems half ginished.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zelkelion

Damn, you guys don't get it at all. The OP is saying that to use materia and meld materia, all you need to do is be able to use the two magical devices that are required. Meaning any idiot can pick up the machine and make it go, so why does it have to be restricted to classes involved in the craft you're improving?

No part of the original crafting skill is necessary in this. It is all done "magically" using the two devices. Therefore, it makes no logical sense to restrict it to any particular class. Anyone should be able to just use these items, the same as anyone can use a computer, or operate a cell phone. You just push buttons, and it runs.

---

Don't worry. Most people are just completely mental.

I think, overall, SE has done well in revising the synthesis system - at least it's a giant step forward from what we had. Some issues that I have are:

1. I don't see where gear and the associated crafting stats plays enough of a role in synthesis outcome. The same applies to gathering. Essentially, I leveled my fishing bare-ass, with no significant or noticeable effects to outcome. This is really unfair for those of us who take the time to to gear our classes appropriately.

2. Most of the crafting abilities are pure rubbish. Some, obviously, are not, such as Hand of the Gods, Perfection, Tender Touch, Less is More, maybe Preserve. I see no noticeable difference in using the success or quality abilities vs. not. SE said they will be looking at crafting abilities and adjusting them so that they are all meaningful and make a noticeable difference. Let's hope they get it right.

3. I'm happy that HQ is not as random as it was. However, I'm a little disappointed that HQ success is almost totally materials driven, as opposed to skills driven. I do understand that there is a need to restrict HQ success. However, I would like to see the calculations and success probability for producing HQ from NQ materials increased a tad. To me, crafting ability, level, gear, stats etc. should have more of a role in success and HQ probability vs. pure materials content.

4. While the 'repair' option in the main menu is, again, a step in the right direction, it is still very cumbersome, in that you have to either view every item up for repair, or change your tool evertime to repair all the items up for repair. This is very time consuming and annoying. I would like to see the ability to repair via this option without having to equip the tool. In other words, if you have the required classes you fix everything, one shot.

5. I would like further clarification from the develpment team exactly what role each crafting ability currenty plays in the synthesis system - craftsmanship, magic craftsmanship, control - especially how relavent magic craftsmanship is today. Once upon a time, I knew the relavence of these, but in the current sytem, I'm not so sure anymore.

one class melds all is still a bad idea. whether you look at the materia melders description or not. it still makes no sense that a weaver can meld materia to a sword.

in the land of examples here's one. mr weaver guy is asked hey can you put this materia on my sword.
sure says the weaver. now where does he meld. he knows nothing of swords or where the most suitable place to attach the materia is. does he put this materia on the handle thus preventing anyone from holding it properly or does he put it right on the tip of the blade effectively blunting the pointy end. or the same example with a helmet maybe mr weaver puts the materia on the visor thus obstructing the wearers vision

you don't just give someone a screwdriver and say attach this shelf to this wall. any one can use a screwdriver but do they know how to make sure the shlf is level or secure or do they simply screw it in and hope for the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

one class melds all is still a bad idea. whether you look at the materia melders description or not. it still makes no sense that a weaver can meld materia to a sword.

in the land of examples here's one. mr weaver guy is asked hey can you put this materia on my sword.
sure says the weaver. now where does he meld. he knows nothing of swords or where the most suitable place to attach the materia is. does he put this materia on the handle thus preventing anyone from holding it properly or does he put it right on the tip of the blade effectively blunting the pointy end. or the same example with a helmet maybe mr weaver puts the materia on the visor thus obstructing the wearers vision

you don't just give someone a screwdriver and say attach this shelf to this wall. any one can use a screwdriver but do they know how to make sure the shlf is level or secure or do they simply screw it in and hope for the best.

---

Then why does it "make sense" that my level 8 culinarian can convert an axe made of mythril, steel and wood? What is it about cooking a few amature meals that gave the expertise for that to happen? Why is it okay for one step of the process to be justified by the key item's description but not the rest?

And aside from that, this is aimed more at balancing the economy. Giving all crafts more utility means people may feel less like they "need" to level crafts to be a more effective battle class player.

Fewer people spamming synths means more supply for materials which means lower mat prices and, by extension, lower end product prices.

In my opinion, right now the economy is completely driven by materials because people are leveling multiple crafts to be able to meld their own gear. But once people are done leveling those crafts that doesn't mean there will be a switch to a product-driven market.

People will be able to make all their own items or have a friend do it at cost. So the materials market will drop severely without the masses chewing through them to spam recipes to level and Gil will become even more worthless than it already is.

But if SE proactively makes positive changes to go from "I need to level crafts" to "I want to level crafts" it'll go a long way in creating an actual economy.

That said, the addition of the materia bazaar system in 1.22 may circumvent the whole issue. But still, SE asked in the Third Players' Poll so it's at least worth discussing the effects it can have on the entire game.

Yoshi P said in his last letter that they were going to take a look at local levequests again to adjust them for outdated recipes, but hopefully they'll increase the EXP on them as well.

As it stands, even with a fairly high quality rating the bonus EXP per leve is a joke at the end. Contrast this to Regionals which give tremendous exp now on top of fairly high completion bonuses. Change it back to how it was, when you got increased EXP per synth - this would also help when you're repeating older leves.


Furthermore, can you please do something about the game's tendancy to just flip the bird at you when crafting? It seems lately I keep failing what should be easy to modest at best synthesis for no apparent reason - every action I take just arbitrarily fails. Now, I understand that they implemented some kind of fatigue nonsense to combat botting, but that shouldn't take effect right off the bat. Often I'll walk into an area and from the very first attempt, the game will just go " fail fail fail" on most if not every action on recipes that I can, on other days, complete with little to no trouble for good EXP.

I am beyond sick of being trolled by the game like this. And no, it's not the moon phase either (if you believe in that) as I check it frequently as well. The game just seems to want to give me a hard time.