[Suggestion] New Soul Crystals for existing classes

What do you guys think of the idea of adding new Soul Crystals to further add depth to existing classes? For example, the Arcanist class is able to choose between two jobs with two distinct roles: Summoner as a DPS and Scholar as a Healer. This would allow players to try out more roles in the game without being required to level a character from scratch.

Here are some extra jobs I had in mind for currently existing classes that I believe could fit in very well:

Gladiator (Tank) → Swordmaster (Melee DPS)
I'm sure that there are some people out there who initially picked a Gladiator thinking it could DPS only to end up as a Paladin which is a Tank. So how about allowing Gladiators to dual-wield swords like Raubahn by allowing them to become a Swordmaster or Sword Saint instead? Being able to dual-wield would expand the meaning of what it is like to actually be a gritty fighter in the Colosseum rather than a royal guard.

Lancer (Melee DPS) → Templar (Tank)
Using Holy Magic to enhance their defenses, the Lancer can take on the role of a Templar instead of a Dragoon. Its lore can easily be tied to the Ishgardian Orthodox Church and could get an in-depth class quest surrounding the Heaven's Ward. I personally feel like the addition of the Templar job would be the most seamless one compared to the other jobs I mention in this post.

Rogue (Melee DPS) → Corsair (Physical Ranged DPS)
If the Ninja is a stronger version of the Rogue in the Far East then what would be its equivalent in Eorzea? Limsa Lominsa is full of Pirates and the Corsair would be a fitting development for the Rogue. The Corsair could be unique in that they dual wield both a melee weapon (either a cutlass or dagger) and a pistol. It's not often that we get a ranged/melee hybrid class.

For the more controversial job ideas that I have:

Archer (Physical Ranged DPS) → Ranger (Physical Ranged DPS)
Archer (Physical Ranged DPS) → Bard (Magical Ranged DPS)
This is very controversial since it talks about altering an already existing job so I can understand why you would disagree with this and it's very understandable if you do. Traditionally Bard has always taken on a more supporting role while the Ranger is the traditional damage dealing marksman. Since they share a level then it wouldn't be too bad to change the role of the Bard a bit to be more supportive and to use some magic in their arsenal.

Pugilist (Melee DPS) → Puppetmaster (Tank)
Ora ora ora ora ora ora ora ora!!! Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda! ゴゴゴ... Yes, I am a JoJo fan and I want this to be a thing. Puppetmaster was a job in Final Fantasy XI and they use fist weapons like the Pugilist and Monk except that they also use a stand automaton alongside them. There are also things that resemble automatons from Final Fantasy XI in the Pugilist's Guild in Ul'dah so there are speculations that Square-Enix initially had Puppetmaster in mind for the Pugilist.

Splitting SMN/SCH off of the same class didn't really work well. While I have no problem with the jobs you've suggested, I would not want to see them branch off of existing classes.

"What's wrong with SMN/SCH?" you might ask. The main problem is that they had to share a whole bunch of skills from their base class, and that really put a strain on their ability to differentiate the two jobs. Better to make all new jobs separate.

As Raldo said, the 'multiple Jobs off one class' thing was an experiment that failed and thus SE will never again repeat that system. In fact, it appears that they're actively looking at seperating SCH from ACN eventually and making it's own independent Job (SCH grimoiries are for SCH only while SMN ones are "ACN/SMN", the 'Job' appearence for character creation for starting the game as ACN is SMN not SCH, and SCH is listed on it's own in the class and Job list in the Edit Search Comment menu). So I would not be surprised if SE eventually remove SCH from ACN/SMN and make it it's own independent classless Job. Because the 'two Jobs off one class' experiment did not work at all.

So sadly you will never see that happen again with any other class I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Jandroid

There are also things that resemble automatons from Final Fantasy XI in the Pugilist's Guild in Ul'dah so there are speculations that Square-Enix initially had Puppetmaster in mind for the Pugilist.

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Those are Mammets and they have been a part of the game's setting since the very beginning of FFXIV 1.0, long before Jobs were ever added or even considered (when there was just classes under the original form of the Armoury System). They're fully autonomous and don't actually require an operator to direct them, so there has never been any consideration given to a 'PUP' type Job here in FFXIV. The closest you'd probably get to that style of gameplay here in FFXIV is MCH with it's turrets becoming somewhat like an automaton, except they're static position wise and don't move around or follow you.

Yoshi doesn't like pet-type classes and jobs due to the difficulty in developing them and so ACN/SMN/SCH's Carbuncle/egi-demi/fairy summons and the MCH turret will probably be the limit for having a Job that uses a pet.

They failed with it bdcause SE completely failed to deliver a proper fundamental class system to begin with, becaus SE gives a shit about it that ARR's class system is incomplete garbage, which exists currently only for ARR's beginner classes, becaus of SE being too lazy n money greedy to fix this incomplete mess that they have fabricated there, because it is simpler n quicker to add new jobs just completely without any beginner experience to learn the gameplay of the new jobs from lvl 1 on, like how we do withe the ARR classes until you learn a job at lvl30

It would have meant more effort, and thus more costs to develop all jobs with classes, which is why I call SE being greedy n lazy on this, when in fact they have had enough money n time to develop from begin on a proper class/job system based on a better design progressive crystal mechanic that lets Class Crystal turn into Job Crystal, while having back in mind from begin on to add later new classes/jobs.


In an optimal FF14 design would we have all jobs with seperate playable classes at least.
To expand that system then eventually with Alternate Jobs, would be basically perhaps the next logical step to add more depth to the game, or player progression, regarding on what SE would make out of it.


Personally I'd love to see one of these two solution to improve the game n fix its weird designs:

1) Add to all jobless professions Basic Classes, so that players can have with everything the beginner experience, that means effort yes, adding especially new story quests , npcs ect for stuff like Samurai, Astrologist, Maschnist ect, SE did that all for Ninja, why the hell not too for all others?
Once all professions hab Class and Job, progress that system for when we get Lvl Cap to 90 with a last tier of Elite Jobs, that would be the progression focus solution.


Or....


2) Completely redesign the beginner experience/job system altogether with the class story quests up to level 30 and turn basically all Jobs into Classes, removing all this garbage like Gladiator, Pugilist ect, that stupid ARR remnants from 1.0 completely, and add intead Alternat Jobs at level 30 to provide a more depthful branching of the jobs to other roles, while also adding eventually later more advanced Elite Jobs too


If we' go for 1), that would I love to see for FF14 becoming reality

Gladiator > Paladin (30) > Crusader (90)
Warrior > Berserker (30) > Warlord(90)
Knight > Dark Knight (30) > Templar (90)
Gunslinger > Gunbreaker (30) > Daredevil (90)

Druid > Whitemage (30) > Exorcist (90)
Fortuneteller > Astrologist (30) > Visionary (90)
Student > Scholar (30) > Sage (90)

Pugilist > Monk (30) > Champion (90)
Samurai > Shogun (30) > Daishogu (90)
Rogue > Ninja (30) > Shinobi (90)
Lancer > Dragoon (30) > Dragoneer (90)
Arcanist > Summoner (30) > Ritualist (90)
Thaumaturge > Blackmage (30) > Elementalist (90)
Fencer > Redmage (30) > Sword Saint (90)
Archer > Bard (30) > Singer (90)
Engineer > Maschinist (30) > Technomancer (90)
Nomad > Dancer (30) > Choreograph (90)

With 2) it would look like this then :

Paladin becomes either at 30 Crudader (stays Tank), or becomes Duelist (turns DPS)/ At 90 Crusader becomes Patron Saint, Duelist becomes Gladiator
Berserker becomes either at 30 Legionnaire (stays Tank), or becomes Destroyer (turns DPS)/ At 90 Legionnaire becomes Warlord, Destroyer becomes Savage
Dark Knight becomes either at 30 Templar (stays Tank), or becomes Necromancer (turns Healer)/ At 90 Templar becomes Death Knight, Necromancer becomes Exorcist
Gunbreaker becomes either at 30 Daredevil (stays Tank), or becomes Gunslinger (turns DPS)/ At 90 Daredevil becomes Guardian,Gunslinger becomes Sniper

Whitemage becomes either at 30 Sage (stays Healer), or becomes Greenmage (turns DPS)/ At 90 Sage becomes Druid, Greenmage becomes Mesmer
Astrologist becomes either at 30 Visionary (stays Healer), or becomes Timemage (turns Tank)/ At 90 Visionary becomes Runologist, Timemage becomes Chronomancer
Scholar becomes either at 30 Medician (stays Healer), or becomes Alchemist (turns DPS), Alchimist Crafter renamed to Scientist/ At 90 Medician becomes Cleric, Alchemist becomes Shaman

Monk becomes either at 30 Champion (stays DPS), or becomes Therapist (turns Healer)/ At 90 Champion becomes Fighter, Therapist becomes Medic
Samurai becomes either at 30 Shogun (stays DPS), or becomes Ronin (turns Tank)/ At 90 Shogun becomes Daishogu, Ronin becomes Wanderer
Ninja becomes either at 30 Shinobi (stays DPS), or becomes Kage (turns Tank)/ At 90 Shinobi becomes Sennin, Kage becomes Daikage
Dragoon becomes either at 30 Dragoneer (stays DPS), or becomes Dragon Knight (turns Tank)/ At 90 Dragoneer becomes Dragon Rider, Dragon Knight becomes Dragonlord
Summoner becomes either at 30 Ritualist (stays DPS), or becomes Bloodmage (turns Healer)/ At 90 Ritualist becomes Medium, Bloodmage becomes Occultist
Blackmage becomes either at 30 Witch/er (stays DPS), or becomes Elementalist (turns Tank)/ At 90 Witch/er becomes Sorcerer, Elementalist becomes Henochist
Redmage becomes either at 30 Spellblade (stays DPS), or becomes Fencer (turns Healer)/ At 90 Spellblade becomes Arcanist, Fencer becomes Sword Saint
Bard becomes either at 30 Singer (stays DPS), or becomes Troubador (turns Healer)/ At 90 Singer becomes Songstar, Troubador becomes Minstrel
Machinist becomes either at 30 Technomancer (stays DPS), or becomes Saboteur (turns Tank)/ At 90 Technomancer becomes Inventor, Saboteur becomes Infiltrator
Dancer becomes either at 30 Choreograph (stays DPS), or becomes Gypsy (turns Healer)/ At 90 Choreograph becomes Cheerleader, Gypsy becomes Dervish

Dang, I didn't know that Scholar and Summoner sharing Arcanist as a base class was considered a failure. I made this post considering that both of those jobs were deemed as a success and to share that type of success with other classes so that players may be more versatile with the roles they play rather than being stuck to a singular role unless they level up a completely new class or job from scratch.

I never played an Arcanist, Summoner, or Scholar but I was looking to pick it up to cover both DPS and Healer roles. Knowing that the jobs that follow it are flawed for being hybridized honestly feel like a bummer. Thank you guys for sharing your knowledge with me though.

I find this post interesting.

The thought has crossed my mind on several occasions in a similar manner. I think the cynics are often critical of ideas in order to claim them for themselves, in any case... any sort of diversity would be a benefit. I think part of the problem of that sort of installation into the game system is how to decide which jobs would have that sort of function available.As of now it is only the arcanist and i do not think it is a failed question as to "why?". My thought on that is that it has something to do with the initial lore. There is a balance between the jobs available and the story itself, it seems; so in order to make more jobs available we needs to explore avenues of choice that would correspond with unknown lore.

When i consider the choice of class to play or job, the thought always comes back to the role playing scenario of "How will this change the character? How will it change the way i actually play said game? Will this make my character more complete,or is it a distracting choice? and, what sort of sacrifice does the time commitment boil down to?"

A further thought would be the relationship between the Classes, and the Jobs available through stones alone; Arcanist is a Class selection where as machinist for example is not. Would you be expecting alternate avenues for expansion jobs of a similar nature or do you think they should make alternate jobs for classes? It is a pretty tall order to think what sort of labor it would require, although feel like the XIV staff knows their fans pretty well and their aim is to challenge rather than disappoint. I think we need to acknowledge that in our expectations, as well as challenge their systems of ideas with our own rather than become discouraged.

I would love the idea of this happening but they struggle to balance current jobs while pumping out the contents they have planned. While corporate SE is siphoning money from this game to fund other projects Yoshi did say money is not the issue. The issue is finding decent developers willing to work on MMO coding and design (and why would they when you can make half baked gacha mobile games that generate more revenue for less the stress). So unless they can get more devs the chance of this happening is very slim as it would require intense resources to do this right with multiple angles to check and with the planned content releases still that are expected by us the playerbase.

Personally I'd love to see more splits like SMN/SCH, but SE has deemed otherwise.

I would prefer for them to just get rid of classes. I see no benefit to having two jobs from one base class, I would rather just see 2 unique jobs that don't share abilities.

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Originally Posted by Jandroid

Dang, I didn't know that Scholar and Summoner sharing Arcanist as a base class was considered a failure. I made this post considering that both of those jobs were deemed as a success and to share that type of success with other classes so that players may be more versatile with the roles they play rather than being stuck to a singular role unless they level up a completely new class or job from scratch.

I never played an Arcanist, Summoner, or Scholar but I was looking to pick it up to cover both DPS and Healer roles. Knowing that the jobs that follow it are flawed for being hybridized honestly feel like a bummer. Thank you guys for sharing your knowledge with me though.

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Dont be disheartened. Picking up ARN for SMN and SCH is still a good idea, and both jobs function very well. SE is just working on splitting them as much as possible without completley separating them, I believe, mostly because a complete separation would require more word than a partial one.

The main reason they are doing this is because when Heavensward was being developed they realized they wrote themselves into a corner; any buffs one got so would the other and vice versa. But by partially separating the jobs they can balance them independently. They were in a time crunch to develop ARR, and ideas that make sense now weren't in the forefront of their minds when restructuring the game. Things like ability upgrades, overall playstyle, job differences, weren't a "priority" that's partially why some initial things in ARR made no sense, WAR's lack of an offensive stance, abilities that lead no where, broken potencies, stances that did nothing, etc.

The main reason the split didnt work was because it came too late. The split happens at level 30, and at that time the cap was 50, that over half your level. If the split happened at say 15, SE would've had more time to individualize any jobs they wanted to split.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

I would prefer for them to just get rid of classes. I see no benefit to having two jobs from one base class, I would rather just see 2 unique jobs that don't share abilities.

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They can't get rid of classes completely though, as the starting classes originated in the original version of FFXIV (1.0), and because all 1.0 players can transfer their 1.0 character data into ARR with all their existing levels, EXP, classes and Jobs intact, the ARR game client needs to be able to understand that old class data as a class when loading that data for the first time otherwise issues could occur. Yoshi is certainly gutting the 1.0 classes of their usefulness and will never implement new classes (ROG being the last 'new class' introduced), but despite hating them he sadly has no choice to keep the existing classes intact as part of the game, for the benefit of any past 1.0 players who haven't yet come back but may want to in the future.

A basic beginner class upgrading into two different job options is a fine concept that works well.

The problem with the initial Arcanist split is that you didn't upgrade to Summoner or Scholar. Functionally, you stayed as an Arcanist, and the Summoner/Scholar job stones just bolted a few extra skills and a pet upgrade on.

We're level 80 now, sharing skills from the first 30 levels just isn't that big an issue anymore.

Edit: that's an interesting name OP :eek:

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Originally Posted by Jandor

A basic beginner class upgrading into two different job options is a fine concept that works well.

We're level 80 now, sharing skills from the first 30 levels just isn't that big an issue anymore.

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But what purpose does it serve? You get the other job for free, but I'd argue that's both a blessing and a curse. I struggle to come up with anything else.

The only reason "sharing skills from the first 30 levels" (it was originally most of 30~50 as well; ACN didn't stop getting skills from levels until lv50) isn't a big deal anymore is because ShB finally separated the two jobs by dumping most of ACNs skills in the trash when you switch to SCH, and if you're doing that, I'm not sure what benefit sharing a base class gives.

They're not gonna add all those branching classes because it would be hellish to balance them. Not to mention FF relies heavily on FF naming conventions and there's no room for Crusader or Witchhunter or Daredevil jobs in an FF game.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

The problem with the initial Arcanist split is that you didn't upgrade to Summoner or Scholar. Functionally, you stayed as an Arcanist, and the Summoner/Scholar job stones just bolted a few extra skills and a pet upgrade on.

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That’s every job though.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

But what purpose does it serve? You get the other job for free, but I'd argue that's both a blessing and a curse. I struggle to come up with anything else.

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You get the other job for free currently. If I was to do more branching jobs, I'd cap classes at 30.
They'd just serve as a consistency thing and a basic intro to that archetype.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

The only reason "sharing skills from the first 30 levels" (it was originally most of 30~50 as well; ACN didn't stop getting skills from levels until lv50) isn't a big deal anymore is because ShB finally separated the two jobs by dumping most of ACNs skills in the trash when you switch to SCH, and if you're doing that, I'm not sure what benefit sharing a base class gives.

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It wasn't a big deal before ShB either. The Scholar/Summoner link didn't matter at all in SB, and wasn't really all that relevant in HW.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

That’s every job though.

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Not really. It was every job, but job skills outnumber class skills on a lot of jobs at this point. Gone are the days of a job being 5 bonus skills on top of your basic 25 or whatever it was.

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I mean, don't get me wrong people. I'm not advocating upending the whole class/job thing, not now we're this far along.

People rag on the whole concept of branching classes, but the concept is solid IMHO, FFXIV just implemented it in a weird way that left next to no room to maneuver.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

But what purpose does it serve? You get the other job for free, but I'd argue that's both a blessing and a curse.

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From the way I see it, it could help more people try tanking.
Explanation : You level a class that evolves into a DPS job to so that you get a good grasp of its rotation, skills, etc...Then, you decide to unlock the second job linked to your class, which is a tank job. This way, you'll have a tank whose kit you already mostly know, which can make you more comfortable to experience.

If you put that to the extreme, you could have all classes that unlock one DPS and either one tank or one healer.