Housing Plots 61-120 (More housing please?) @YoshiP <3

Simple suggestion really, on high-pop (or all) servers - implement additional instances of housing. So many players everywhere are griping about a lack of housing. Adding additional plots by cloning the existing housing areas should take minimal effort and address the housing need.

Please... do this - as my FC is looking to grow / add more players to its base and would like to be able to advertise large housing instead of medium. There are so many player owned mansions it is kind of obscene. (Yup - I've been stalking lodestone and comparing snapshots of player owned houses to see who's innactive vs active so I can more closely watch their plots).

The amount of gil a house costs should already be barrier to entry enough. The scarcity of prime FC housing is diminishing the community's potential.

Thank you all for your hard work on this game, I and my FC members truly love it, but we would really like a mansion.

Let me stop this right here and now.

1) Adding more plots isn't as "simple" as you may think. There's a lot more that goes into it, on top of with the system currently implemented. They can't pick-and-choose which servers get more spots. If Balmung gets extra housing plots, for example. Then ALL servers get extra housing plots.

2) If you think having a Large House plot for your FC makes your FC more "appealing" to others, then you should probably re-think what an FC means to you. on top of that, you don't really have any right or power to say other people don't deserve what they have. Using the Lodestone (to my knowledge, at least) only shows that they're not online. Not how long they've been gone. If they were inactive for 30 - 45 days, they wouldn't have the plot anymore. Maybe they're playing other games, or have real-life things to deal with that take priority over playing XIV. Some definitely take the piss with this system, but it's there and we just have to accept it.

3) Adding more Instanced Housing (apartments) wouldn't even help it whatsoever. There's already people clamoring FOR Instanced Housing, but when said they can freely go and get one, they turn up their nose and scoff, as if it's below them. "So many players everywhere" is a gross over-exaggeration because only NA servers are affected and, given XIV's popularity. You have to realize that It's a pretty small percentage of the total playerbase. They had already stated they're looking into making Housing more accessible, but we don't know what that exactly means beyond "They're looking into it"

Making posts like this won't help. Like stated in several other threads, one giant thread with thousands of replies gets noticed, whereas hundreds of smaller threads with only double-digit replies and views get overlooked.

Also not to mention simply adding more houses won't take away the fact that the demand will still exceed the supply.

Not forgetting we'll just have more graveyards where houses are built to just be to used sparingly. I can frankly picture SE seeing housing as a drain on resources but a necessary evil in order to keep players happy and subscribed.

Wider vertical and horizontal spaces for apartments, with instanced balcony and deluxe indoor garden patch enabled.

Possibly an extra ward or two for the housing districts, and please improve neighborhood aesthetics design.

You clearly have paid no attention to SE's discussions of how housing in this game works if you think it's simple to implement new wards on a whim.

Not sure why you think the FC house size is important to recruiting. People don't join a FC to stare at a big house when they log in. They join a FC to be doing things with others.

If you want to waste your time stalking players who own a large just on the off chance they're going to stop playing for 7 weeks, it's your choice. I'm surprised you don't have more important things to be doing with your time, like organizing events and recruiting for your FC.

It's far too easy to make gil in this game for the price of a house to be a barrier to anyone who wants one.

If there wasn't a scarcity, there would be no reason for certain plots to be considered prime. Regardless, it has zero impact on the community's potential. The community's potential is in what they do, not what they own.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's far too easy to make gil in this game for the price of a house to be a barrier to anyone who wants one.

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I agree it's not too hard to make gil if you actually do what makes it but I think there is a /huge/ issue in that some people don't do the gil making things (which tend to revolve around specific mechanics), but they do indeed play the game a lot. Like some people just really don't like messing around with the market board, but they're playing the game and doing current content. So I mean to say for some the price is insane because it requires them to rotate out of "playing the game" to "working for money". Of course that may or may not be an issue depending on how you see housing, but just wanted to say for quite a few people houses are still very expensive and they do actively play, they just don't do the specific money making choices that other people enjoy or do despite not enjoying it. Personally I think it would be very wise of a MMORPG to ensure everyone gets a (small) place by default, even if it takes a long while into MSQ (just to ensure they're not making a house for every 1hour playtime player), but then add many gil and time sinks onto upgrading it.

Even the 300 - 500K is a lot to some, although if you're not silly with your money it should be easily attainable through normal gameplay of the MSQ (but not multiple mil of gil, that you'll need quite a bit of time doing passive things or just actively attempt to make gil specifically).

With the current system I guess it's okay this way but I think it's another symptom of the multi-symptom problem that is housing here, players shouldn't have to go out of their way to find a home in the game (imo, I think it's an unwise choice for a non-hardcore themepark based game). At least I think that's a bad idea- you want to solidify players into the world. Not ask them if they want to be. Get people into building things, a character is obviously one but a house can be an even better one as it's a place to return after adventure, a place to enshrine your progress onto the walls, a place that can stay the same even when your job isn't, a personal space in a busy world. A house could be that constant through your job changes, and that's something I think mmorpgs, FFXIV, should strive to get players into rather than ask them to get into. It's an alt that sticks with you as your rock and compass. It shouldn't be a place you have to go out of your way to get and be afraid to lose, or that you should have to feel excited to buy into a stagnant and feature lesser option instead because you can't go big (apartments vs houses vs size vs location vs future plans vs hostage to sub or not).

Rather it should be the system that unexpectedly knocks on the player's door, maybe some what through MSQ, and then welcomes them into their own space. Encourages them to set roots and excitedly greeting them with open arms and a warm hearth "EH LOOK YOU GOT A ROOM!!!! IT'LL BE WITH YOU FOREVER!! THIS IS YOUR HOME, PUT THIS ITEM WE JUST GAVE YOU IN IT" and tantalizing them forward "do you want to add a second floor for 500k? I know it's a lot but it adds more space and decoration slots! Go back out there to get new items to bring here, go out and make gil and do quests to upgrade this place of yours!" - "balcony 350K!" - on and on like this, adding new features and expanding and never worrying that "did I buy the wrong size.. the wrong location.. will I have to rebuy this... is it even worth it...? what if they add a new area... what if I can't login when that area is released... what if I need to take a break.. I'm held hostage..". This system imo should really not be stopping either once you get parity to the current houses (assuming they start upgrading apartments to the quality of housing). As an aside imo the name should be changed too, at least personally having owned a house and rented an apartment- owning a house comes with a lot more pride which probably adds to some of the turning of people nose to apartment system "not a house". That they should keep going and take that lore from ShB of that special area.. and use that to keep building and making it a long long long term gil sink of many options and fluid choices (emphasis on fluid). Did you want a house in the Azim Steppe a new area we just released, well we've got a new essence system that allows you to collect strong memories of the area through crafting and interacting in that land- you can invest in your housing /zone/ to recreate memories of that place (or if you don't have the time, buy it off the market- oh but once you bought the memory don't worry, it's yours! None of this clogged new wards issue or having to rebuy plots of land you've already bought before, nor the limitations of areas to choose from because SE no longer has to design an entire shared space).

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Originally Posted by Kenky

3) Adding more Instanced Housing (apartments) wouldn't even help it whatsoever. There's already people clamoring FOR Instanced Housing, but when said they can freely go and get one, they turn up their nose and scoff, as if it's below them. "So many players everywhere" is a gross over-exaggeration because only NA servers are affected and, given XIV's popularity. You have to realize that It's a pretty small percentage of the total playerbase. They had already stated they're looking into making Housing more accessible, but we don't know what that exactly means beyond "They're looking into it"

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Until apartments have the complete feature set of houses I don't agree with the idea that instanced housing is similar enough to use it interchangeably with apartments (can disagree obviously lol but so can I, which I'm doing here xD). They're not houses even in the games own terms, they're apartments, but even if we called them houses (which I don't agree to) at best they're inferior houses (smaller size, smaller maximum decoration, cannot relocate into housing, no gardening plots, doesn't offer FC features, no outdoors, doesn't have upgrading features (yet?)). In that inferior status I think it would be normal for people to scoff and turn up their nose if they wanted something larger with more features (especially if they had the means, funds, but the server had not the ability).

Maybe we can call them an octagon while housing is a circle, they've got some similar details but they're not the same shape- adding a lot more lines can possibly make it a circle but circle it is not yet. I can't accept the statement we already have instanced housing in the intent of what people use that statement for, we don't have them. What people want doesn't exist. We've got instanced apartments, which are not houses given the context we've got houses and apartments are not those (obviously) and people want a house not a sole room. Also when people say instanced housing they're referring to a system that can handle every person (FC/player), so not only a house but a house that's unlimited (figuratively, literally there are physical limitations of course) but one that can also function for FC. Not that I'm suggesting those solutions are easy, they'd have done it already if it was (or at least I hope, would be a bit sad if they could have fixed it easily and didn't.. I doubt they'd have done that though).

Also while I think upgrading the apartments to the quality of houses is a good idea I really, really, hope they don't stop there. Housing could be far more powerful than the neighborhood system allows by taking that apartment system and upgrade it to the point you get your own instance space (inside, outside, creation magic, etc, aka wildstar housing). Which while was instanced housing (wildstar, for every player) it also imo had better neighborhoods via the community system (a huge, huge, plot of land that a group of players can share and put their houses on). I'll actively discourage destruction of the neighborhood system (for those who like it), but instanced housing to that scale, imo, would be exceptionally superior (and obviously is something we don't have). If they can get apartments to the scale and exact feature options of houses, and have enough for every account and FC then I'll not think poorly on the system but I'll still think they could have reached much higher into the stars (especially with how perfect the lore later in the game lines up with that type of housing).

Though I did want to also add, after that disagreeing ;), is that OP said "instances of housing" (more wards, our current system).. which isn't quite the same as "instanced housing" (full feature housing and whatever entitled space that comes with it of your sole ownership, not limited by the amount of houses or players that currently exist) lol.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

3) Adding more Instanced Housing (apartments) wouldn't even help it whatsoever. There's already people clamoring FOR Instanced Housing, but when said they can freely go and get one, they turn up their nose and scoff, as if it's below them. "So many players everywhere" is a gross over-exaggeration because only NA servers are affected and, given XIV's popularity. You have to realize that It's a pretty small percentage of the total playerbase. They had already stated they're looking into making Housing more accessible, but we don't know what that exactly means beyond "They're looking into it"

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Until apartments have the complete feature set of houses I don't agree with the idea that instanced housing is similar enough to use it interchangeably with apartments (can disagree obviously lol but so can I, which I'm doing here xD). They're not houses even in the games own terms, they're apartments, but even if we called them houses (which I don't agree to)

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hous·ing
/ˈhouziNG/

noun
noun: housing; plural noun: housings
1.
houses and apartments considered collectively.
"a housing development"
synonyms: homes, houses, places of residence, buildings; More
the provision of accommodations.
"the sector that offers housing to the poorest"

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Originally Posted by Edax

hous·ing
/ˈhouziNG/

noun
noun: housing; plural noun: housings
1.
houses and apartments considered collectively.
"a housing development"
synonyms: homes, houses, places of residence, buildings; More
the provision of accommodations.
"the sector that offers housing to the poorest"

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Apartments are not a 'house' in context of the game when talking features (by name and by features) and as well in real world conversation- of course given context as well, can sometimes use them interchangeably but when the feature sets are different and that is focus of the conversation they are then not interchangeable in common parlance.

But they did say hous'ing' as you pointed out... which has always included apartments in the wording.. so I'm just wrong.. +1 lol:

https://media.giphy.com/media/l46Cty...fsA0/giphy.gif

I'll be watching to not use/address that wording in the future for better clarity when discussing features (as apartment, currently, != house).

I'll leave alone my post to keep structure of your response as it's currently correct lol, but if I had noticed the 'ing', as I didn't but should have, I would just modified from apartments are not housing (wrong) to apartments are not houses in this context and that players want houses specifically (which would be correct). There is housing, it's not adequate to (some) people's desires, it's not what they want ("you have housing, it's an apartment" "I want an instanced house not an apartment").

Or in other words in context of their post you ask the realtor for house listings (clamoring for instanced houses, not just "housing") and they return only apartment listings (a type of housing, but not a house in this context), you have a right to not want what they listed (because it's not what you wanted, and every realtor should know that too- in context it's a clear difference between the two and in that making them sound the same would be misleading). When features are important the distinction and non-interchangeability rises (house and apartment are not the same when context determines distinctions are important).

Everything I said I still mean, but the post needs that modification to return to truth and opinion (most of it is opinion xD). That modification I will leave here just to leave my post alone for your quote because you did get me with that lol :3.

1) Frankly - this is a totally nonconstructive thread composed by numerous users who simply wanted to criticize and poke at OP. Sure - adding multiple instances more may NOT be simple - but it is still simpler than 3d modelling entirely new zone and layouts. If adding new zones to high pop servers means also adding zones to low-pop ones, so be it; as someone said, there will still be more demand than supply.

2) The argument of adding more housing being irrelevant because there will still be more demand than supply is a foolish argument because by that logic you might as well reduce the existing plots on every server to 1 (because hey, there will always be more demand than supply).

3) Acquiring millions of gil is not easy, especially for someone who solely focuses on adventuring as their playstyle; I do not, but I also am a full-time employee, full time student with not and insignificant course load, father, husband and FC leader. I am not afforded the opportunity to visit each housing area every hour on the hour. So when I have managed to acquire enough gil between my friends and I who play together, there should be the supply of mansions to allow us to enjoy that aspect without engaging in Savage Plot Checking Raids for the next month.

4) Regardless of you opinions or feelings on the proper way to "recruit" or an individual's or FC's reasoning for wanting a mansion - your feelings do NOT invalidate OUR feelings. YOU do NOT get that privilege so do not presume to tell me why my personal desires and reasons for furthering my or my FC's game goals are wrong. Feel free to take your opinions on that matter and apply them to yourself, but don't force them on me or tell me why I'm wrong.

5) I was hoping to engender some sort of unified response since the vast majority of threads in this forum are about the extreme lack of available plots across the game. Clearly I was wrong about the type of community this one when I thought presenting a more united voice for a potentially simpler solution to the housing problem may have a chance at getting the playerbase what most of it desires, more housing. Don't worry, I won't be coming back to this toxicity. The player base on my server seems much friendlier - I'll stick with them.

6) Feel free to argue with me - I won't be reading it.

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

1) Frankly - this is a totally nonconstructive thread composed by numerous users who simply wanted to criticize and poke at OP.

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But you are the OP and you can't truly know what the users here truly "want".

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Originally Posted by JowyAtreides

Also not to mention simply adding more houses won't take away the fact that the demand will still exceed the supply.

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

2) The argument of adding more housing being irrelevant because there will still be more demand than supply is a foolish argument because by that logic you might as well reduce the existing plots on every server to

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You are committing a strawman fallacy, JowyAtredies didn't say "irrelevant". What she said was a factual statement: demand will still exceed the supply. It's your subjective opinion that this fact is a "foolish argument".

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

3) Acquiring millions of gil is not easy, especially for someone who solely focuses on adventuring as their playstyle; I do not, but I also am a full-time employee, full time student with not and insignificant course load, father, husband and FC leader. I am not afforded the opportunity to visit each housing area every hour on the hour. So when I have managed to acquire enough gil between my friends and I who play together, there should be the supply of mansions to allow us to enjoy that aspect without engaging in Savage Plot Checking Raids for the next month.

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If you don't play the game often, why should be you be given access to the really nice things like Mansions?

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

4) Regardless of you opinions or feelings on the proper way to "recruit" or an individual's or FC's reasoning for wanting a mansion - . YOU do NOT get that privilege so do not presume to tell me why my personal desires and reasons for furthering my or my FC's game goals are wrong.

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Your feelings do not invalidate our feelings.

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

5) I was hoping to engender some sort of unified response since the vast majority of threads in this forum are about the extreme lack of available plots across the game. Clearly I was wrong about the type of community this one when I thought presenting a more united voice for a potentially simpler solution to the housing problem may have a chance at getting the playerbase what most of it desires, more housing. Don't worry, I won't be coming back to this toxicity. The player base on my server seems much friendlier - I'll stick with them.

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Your toxicity on the housing forum is not helping the toxicity on the housing forum.

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

6) Feel free to argue with me - I won't be reading it.

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Thus defeating the purpose of a forum.

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

1) Frankly - this is a totally nonconstructive thread composed by numerous users who simply wanted to criticize and poke at OP. Sure - adding multiple instances more may NOT be simple - but it is still simpler than 3d modelling entirely new zone and layouts. If adding new zones to high pop servers means also adding zones to low-pop ones, so be it; as someone said, there will still be more demand than supply.

2) The argument of adding more housing being irrelevant because there will still be more demand than supply is a foolish argument because by that logic you might as well reduce the existing plots on every server to 1 (because hey, there will always be more demand than supply).

3) Acquiring millions of gil is not easy, especially for someone who solely focuses on adventuring as their playstyle; I do not, but I also am a full-time employee, full time student with not and insignificant course load, father, husband and FC leader. I am not afforded the opportunity to visit each housing area every hour on the hour. So when I have managed to acquire enough gil between my friends and I who play together, there should be the supply of mansions to allow us to enjoy that aspect without engaging in Savage Plot Checking Raids for the next month.

4) Regardless of you opinions or feelings on the proper way to "recruit" or an individual's or FC's reasoning for wanting a mansion - your feelings do NOT invalidate OUR feelings. YOU do NOT get that privilege so do not presume to tell me why my personal desires and reasons for furthering my or my FC's game goals are wrong. Feel free to take your opinions on that matter and apply them to yourself, but don't force them on me or tell me why I'm wrong.

5) I was hoping to engender some sort of unified response since the vast majority of threads in this forum are about the extreme lack of available plots across the game. Clearly I was wrong about the type of community this one when I thought presenting a more united voice for a potentially simpler solution to the housing problem may have a chance at getting the playerbase what most of it desires, more housing. Don't worry, I won't be coming back to this toxicity. The player base on my server seems much friendlier - I'll stick with them.

6) Feel free to argue with me - I won't be reading it.

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In your defense when I was looking for a FC (non-aggressively so), I saw people sometimes put out shouts in town and I ignored all the ones that didn't have a large house. I wasn't in a hurry so it was easy to be choosey, and at least for myself you're correct a house is important part of the recruiting process (or hiring I guess in this case lol). If I was in a hurry I'd probably have gone faster and not cared, but I waited and it was all worth it- awesome house, awesome people.

If you want more support for housing though.. it was burnt out ages ago as these problems have been the same for a long time.

Also I notice a lot of misleading arguments in the housing thread section that don't really happen in general discussion. Edax is correct 'housing' includes apartments so my bad on reading when I should have addressed it more correctly lol, but I see a lot of people try to pass apartments off as the exact same as houses here (or that they are or should be considered a satisfactory replacement/option in place of a house of x size/location) and I find that a bit dishonest (as they're not what people are asking for, at least how they currently exist- that can change of course).. the apartment defense is something you don't see as much in the general discussion. Also to further butt against Edax on that point lol, even though they're still correct (on usage of 'housing' as a nebulous term), is that you're talking about FC houses yet the person who mentioned apartments has nothing to do with you.. FC and apartments is like oil and water (one of multiple ways that they're not house equivalent and deserve their separate identification, though I hope that changes). You need a house, an apartment is not suitable (doesn't work for FC). An instanced house is clearly a lot different than an instanced apartment then (since one could support your needs, and the other cannot).

That and I think it's because most of the people here already have a house and are sick of 80% of the threads being generated consisting about house hate (some nice, a lot not so nice lol) especially when quite a few already have one (reducing empathy and increasing annoyance in uncontrolled passion "stop throwing stuff, this is getting annoying" maybe something like that for some people :p). Messy, too common, and not really what they're looking for. That said oh well :p. I come and go on the housing subject because I've felt the same since introduction years ago (that the system itself is a major issue and something needs to change at a system level, apartments being upgraded into instanced "houses" would be a very strong step).

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Let me stop this right here and now.

1) Adding more plots isn't as "simple" as you may think. There's a lot more that goes into it, on top of with the system currently implemented. They can't pick-and-choose which servers get more spots. If Balmung gets extra housing plots, for example. Then ALL servers get extra housing plots.

2) If you think having a Large House plot for your FC makes your FC more "appealing" to others, then you should probably re-think what an FC means to you. on top of that, you don't really have any right or power to say other people don't deserve what they have. Using the Lodestone (to my knowledge, at least) only shows that they're not online. Not how long they've been gone. If they were inactive for 30 - 45 days, they wouldn't have the plot anymore. Maybe they're playing other games, or have real-life things to deal with that take priority over playing XIV. Some definitely take the piss with this system, but it's there and we just have to accept it.

3) Adding more Instanced Housing (apartments) wouldn't even help it whatsoever. There's already people clamoring FOR Instanced Housing, but when said they can freely go and get one, they turn up their nose and scoff, as if it's below them. "So many players everywhere" is a gross over-exaggeration because only NA servers are affected and, given XIV's popularity. You have to realize that It's a pretty small percentage of the total playerbase. They had already stated they're looking into making Housing more accessible, but we don't know what that exactly means beyond "They're looking into it"

Making posts like this won't help. Like stated in several other threads, one giant thread with thousands of replies gets noticed, whereas hundreds of smaller threads with only double-digit replies and views get overlooked.

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Fantastic response, thread should've ended with your post.

Just a kind of side note, If you were to zoom out super super far, youd see that both the subdvision and the main division exist on the same map, just on the opposite side of a blockade, like an ocean or a mountain. Maybe the server can hold 120 outside houses per ward, but you never know.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Until apartments have the complete feature set of houses I don't agree with the idea that instanced housing is similar enough to use it interchangeably with apartments

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Sorry to break it to you, here. But there's a reason Apartments do not have the features a House does. Yes, it sucks. But it's that way to maintain the worth of an actual Ward plot, instead of a room in a hotel. If Apartments could do everything a House could do, then.. Well, why would you buy a house? Why put 4 million plus gil into a home, when you can get all its features for 1/10th of the cost? Because you'd have a garden?

Like I had said in another thread, everyone is putting so much weight on housing, because its something they cannot get openly. Despite the fact they can, but they're too picky to see apartments as "real housing". Meaning they get little to no sympathy. Beggars can't be choosers.

For most of the playerbase, the house will be bought, decorated (if that) then it'll just.. Sit there. If it's not an FC hall, then it cant do the voyages, meaning its legitimately just.. A decorated room. That may be enough for plenty of people, but (I assume) the majority of people would want a use. Roleplaying grants a use, if only for a temporary basis until you get tired of the venue. (Because RP Burnout is a thing)

Okay, so... after reading this thread I have a legit question:

Why does a mansion make an FC more attractive?

I'm honestly curious - the mansion doesnt provide anything more in terms of function than a small house does (except for two extra garden-plots, maybe).
I'm part of a mid-sized FC, 40-50 members, about half of them are constantly active. We used to have a small house in Lavender Beds but relocated to a Shirogane-mansion. And in terms of FC-involvment in the house I have to say: The small one was a lot better! We always offered everyone the option to decorate the house if they wanted to - and with the small one that was quite easy. Anyone could just re-do one of the floors in an evening if they felt like giving it a go - the item-limit and limited space allowed for that without problems and if someone got bored mid-decorating and left a mess it was easy enough to fix that.
Now, for the mansion... we, again, encouraged everyone to participate if they wanted to, but given the shire size of the house, the tighter item limit and the time and cost to decorate a whole mansion not much happend for 2 or 3 months, until I finally decided to do it after all (I had decorate my own mansion and wanted to give others the chance to have a go) and now we have a fully decorated mansion thats been like this for 2 years because no one wants to re-do the whole thing but you also cant just change a tiny portion of it (like you could change one floor of a small house) without throwing everything out of balance.

My point is: The main thing you gain more off with a mansion is space to decorate - but at the same time decorating gets a lot more complicated and allows for less involvment of the FC. So... what do you gain by being in an FC with a mansion?

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Sorry to break it to you, here. But there's a reason Apartments do not have the features a House does. Yes, it sucks. But it's that way to maintain the worth of an actual Ward plot, instead of a room in a hotel. If Apartments could do everything a House could do, then.. Well, why would you buy a house? Why put 4 million plus gil into a home, when you can get all its features for 1/10th of the cost? Because you'd have a garden?

Like I had said in another thread, everyone is putting so much weight on housing, because its something they cannot get openly. Despite the fact they can, but they're too picky to see apartments as "real housing". Meaning they get little to no sympathy. Beggars can't be choosers.

For most of the playerbase, the house will be bought, decorated (if that) then it'll just.. Sit there. If it's not an FC hall, then it cant do the voyages, meaning its legitimately just.. A decorated room. That may be enough for plenty of people, but (I assume) the majority of people would want a use. Roleplaying grants a use, if only for a temporary basis until you get tired of the venue. (Because RP Burnout is a thing)

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Didn't break anything but thanks for your concern :3. Also I wasn't suggesting the 500k value == 40mil+ large house, only that apartments are not houses when discussing features (for multiple reasons, more than just gardens). Like suggesting a moped to a person willing to and specifically coming to buy a 4 wheel drive truck yet can't find one in the size and location they wanted, or to a person whose trying to get the best designed truck on the market to sell and people keep referring to an old design as "good enough" when they're clearly thinking no it's not (imo housing system should reach higher to the stars, and especially the apartments- which we've had whispers they're working on which is good).

I believe Apartments should be turned into automatically given to the player (to encourage use of the system, and to get those housing items flowing more readily- especially a place to put seasonal rewards) and then something like a second floor upgrade should cost the apartment fee (500k, perhaps more depending on what other features it bundles), adding other gradual upgrading fees like a balcony, gardening, outdoors, more and more, until it reaches the same features of a large, and then keep going, all these things could be monetized (gil lol) to bring in the gil sinks as the player feels comfortable. Technically it could also be monetized in real life with rifts/mini-shards you could buy off the mogshop like Rift sells world space (like how retainers are sold), another value to SE.

If someone is willingly to pay they're not a beggar (both already paying in real life and many willing to pay in game), seems to me you're just using that word for derogatory effect. Other forms of the word are one to be pitied (which you said you have no sympathy for, so can't be that), or to be in poverty which not everyone asking for housing changes are poor (personally find apartments to be a waste of money, but if it was an instanced house that could upgrade over time it'd be fantastic- and I've paid for other people to buy their own apartments and FC rooms when they personally thought it was enough).

I just think the housing system as it is, is a mistake and huge missed opportunity. I've no qualms with the idea housing can be a gil sink, that's fine and probably a good thing- I think how the system works itself and the limitations it inflicts are not great. "Unlikely to change, these are super expensive" I agree, but say it anyway I will.

Also I don't think people need to redecorate or get fancy in order for a house to be worth it, I'm fine with it just sitting there after it's been set up. Although of course if they're on the ward space they'll probably annoy their neighbors if they stop updating their house (but I don't really like the ward space idea, so I'd suggest those people to move it into the instance (house) seeing instanced zones are exceptionally more capable of potential, and even an instanced space can be a stronger "neighborhood" via things like Wildstar communities which is a sort of make your own ward space with multiple houses on a humongous plot).

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Okay, so... after reading this thread I have a legit question:

Why does a mansion make an FC more attractive?

I'm honestly curious - the mansion doesnt provide anything more in terms of function than a small house does (except for two extra garden-plots, maybe).
I'm part of a mid-sized FC, 40-50 members, about half of them are constantly active. We used to have a small house in Lavender Beds but relocated to a Shirogane-mansion. And in terms of FC-involvment in the house I have to say: The small one was a lot better! We always offered everyone the option to decorate the house if they wanted to - and with the small one that was quite easy. Anyone could just re-do one of the floors in an evening if they felt like giving it a go - the item-limit and limited space allowed for that without problems and if someone got bored mid-decorating and left a mess it was easy enough to fix that.
Now, for the mansion... we, again, encouraged everyone to participate if they wanted to, but given the shire size of the house, the tighter item limit and the time and cost to decorate a whole mansion not much happend for 2 or 3 months, until I finally decided to do it after all (I had decorate my own mansion and wanted to give others the chance to have a go) and now we have a fully decorated mansion thats been like this for 2 years because no one wants to re-do the whole thing but you also cant just change a tiny portion of it (like you could change one floor of a small house) without throwing everything out of balance.

My point is: The main thing you gain more off with a mansion is space to decorate - but at the same time decorating gets a lot more complicated and allows for less involvment of the FC. So... what do you gain by being in an FC with a mansion?

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I can see how a large would be harder to parse out, personally I don't think people need to all take turns decorating- the decorater of our FC is awesome and needs no help lol. But that's just a personal feeling. So to me large better and more desirable in a FC because I don't really care if one or many people have a design and having more space and objects looks better (to me) then. I don't even mind if it stays the same for a very long time (ours doesn't), it's a house to visit and be in and to me doesn't need to be rotated (I don't rotate my gear either once I hit whatever is current for the effort I want to put in). Not that I'm saying you're wrong (you're allowed your own system! lol), just different folks different strokes I guess.

That said I do think it would be nice if SE allowed players to design their layout or offered different housing layouts (like you could buy a different house shape, even if it was just a different interior), in such a way you could design a large house layout of multiple rooms for better sharing.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I just think the housing system as it is, is a mistake

Although of course if they're on the ward space they'll probably annoy their neighbors (but I don't like the ward space idea seeing instanced zones are exceptional more capable of potential, and even an instanced space can be a stronger "neighborhood" via things like Wildstar communities which is a sort of make your own ward space with multiple houses on a humongous plot).

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And I do not. Every MMORPG instanced housing system has always given me the impression that this wasn't part of a multiplayer game. I see players all the time in my ward but in Runescape OS or SWTOR I was always alone with my home. I actually think the FFXIV housing system is very good, far better then I've seen in other games. The biggest problem I see with the system is that getting a house through legitimate means is not user friendly but I don't want the wards destroyed just for this reason.

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Originally Posted by Edax

And I do not. Every MMORPG instanced housing system has always given me the impression that this wasn't part of a multiplayer game. I see players all the time in my ward but in Runescape OS or SWTOR I was always alone with my home. I actually think the FFXIV housing system is very good, far better then I've seen in other games. The biggest problem I see with the system is that getting a house through legitimate means is not user friendly but I don't want the wards destroyed just for this reason.

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That's entirely fair, obviously we'll just have to agree to disagree on that but also I don't want to destroy the neighborhood system either so it's not like I'm trying to kill your wards lol.

I'd like a side system akin to wildstar, and leave yours alone. Also to note wildstar has communities which are HUGE plots that allow multiple people to have multiple houses on the land and decorate the whole land together (as if you had the whole FFXIV housing ward to just your buddies but with more creative power). Having the much stronger creativity and accessibility of instances while also allowing players a ward / neighborhood like feel. I imagine if SE gave people the choice that you'd see a lot (a lot) of players move to a personal zone, leaving the wards for people who wanted the neighborhood feeling specifically.

Also you could make an instanced personal space that everyone can have and allow people to buy a "front" in the ward system, for those who wanted it - so you'd have a zone connected to a limited ward space (but everyone could have a personal zone house space of whatever size). If you've seen Howel's Moving Castle imagine that magical door basically, turn the knob and you leave into the neighborhood, turn it again and you enter the wide open mountains. I've no interest in killing your ward, as I don't enjoy taking things away from people, but the system leaves a lot wanting imo (obviously not for you lol).

I think if you could only have one system (wards or instances) that wards work much better in more hardcore slower paced less theme park mmos, so I feel it's a mistake still just for theme of the game but I can understated how someone might like them. I do not like the neighborhood system due to the limitations it also comes with, but I wont say you're wrong in liking them, just that I think they serve the game's themes worse than an empowered instanced system could with all that fantasy, magic, and theme park freedom that normally goes along with a game like this (and especially because it's a FF game, with fantastic environments to inspire from).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If someone is willingly to pay they're not a beggar (both already paying in real life and many willing to pay in game), seems to me you're just using that word for derogatory effect. Other forms of the word are one to be pitied (which you said you have no sympathy for, so can't be that),

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You're looking -way- too far into a simple saying, bud. If you do not have the luxury of choice or the ability to get what you want, don't turn up your nose at something to satisfy you for the mean-time is the general meaning.

But back to the actual topic. While it's entirely fine for you to not see Apartments as worth it, that's fine. To say that they're not applicable housing because "They're missing things" is rather odd, if I'm honest. That's like saying a Flat isn't a house because it doesn't have a front garden. But hey, it's your choice what you like / dislike.

But where it gets to be rather irritating is when people think they know better than SE. That they know what the servers can hold and achieve, even when they don't service said servers. While it would be great for Apartments to get an update, it comes with a caveat. Like I said in prior posts, if Apartments get updated, all housing needs to be updated as a result. SE thankfully has learned their mistakes of half-assed reworks and (hopefully) they'll leave nothing to chance. But I suppose that will be music to some players ears.

Because, after all. All of those other players have houses and aren't playing 24/7. So they CLEARLY don't deserve the houses and should be given to <insert player name here> for free.
(Sarcasm, if you didn't catch it)

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Originally Posted by Kenky

You're looking -way- too far into a simple saying, bud. If you do not have the luxury of choice or the ability to get what you want, don't turn up your nose at something to satisfy you for the mean-time is the general meaning.

But back to the actual topic. While it's entirely fine for you to not see Apartments as worth it, that's fine. To say that they're not applicable housing because "They're missing things" is rather odd, if I'm honest. That's like saying a Flat isn't a house because it doesn't have a front garden. But hey, it's your choice what you like / dislike.

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People don't need to be happy with options remaining that's all I was saying (options that are not 1:1, they have some similarities sure but they're not the same*). Sure sometimes you have to make do, but you can also say "SE.. this doesn't satisfy me, I don't like the options you've presented". If a FC wants a workshop and can find a small, but they dislike the housing system in general, they should make with what's around and get that small but they're also allowed to let SE know that they don't like the housing system. Make with what you can, but also speak up.

I mean that's basically the structure for any and all feedback ever. "I don't like this thing that does or doesn't exist". That's how it starts. "I don't like how my job feels, I don't like this dungeon, etc etc".

*Of course wanting to be clear I want more from the housing system than even the houses themselves can provide at this moment. So apartments becoming exactly like a house I'd still challenge SE to go further (though that'd be very impressive and a huge step in the right direction). But I'd like to see new things like allowing larger yards, towers, chocobo farms, changing environments, docks, giving players a lot more creative power over their environment and objects, etc (like wildstar, and I'm not saying any of those are easy). Also when I say "exactly like a house" I assume the gil sink will be worked into that, not that now 500k apartment == large house of 40+mil (just to clarify that, more as in an apartment is exactly like a house in that you could upgrade it to the point of being just like a whatever size with all the same features.. investments being made to do that, which is why I've mentioned paying to get a second floor and things like that).

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Originally Posted by Kenky

But where it gets to be rather irritating is when people think they know better than SE. That they know what the servers can hold and achieve, even when they don't service said servers. While it would be great for Apartments to get an update, it comes with a caveat. Like I said in prior posts, if Apartments get updated, all housing needs to be updated as a result. SE thankfully has learned their mistakes of half-assed reworks and (hopefully) they'll leave nothing to chance. But I suppose that will be music to some players ears.

Because, after all. All of those other players have houses and aren't playing 24/7. So they CLEARLY don't deserve the houses and should be given to <insert player name here> for free.
(Sarcasm, if you didn't catch it)

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I don't think making a Wildstar-esq addition to the game will be easy (not that wildstar is the only of it's kind, just one of the most thought out and well done I've seen), if anything I expect it to be one of the more expensive things to be included into an expansion and don't expect it to be randomly designed. Some guy fixing it up in a few hours, LOL NO. LONG ago when housing was first released I detailed pretty much all the issues SE would have with their system (vast majority were worse than I even suggested, but still true) and I had asked and hoped "I don't care how long it'll take but please don't end here" saying at best we might see this in 6.0 and things like that (previously had given a range of 5.0-7.0, as the hope). I don't want to sell housing changes as if they're easy, but I also don't feel like I need to be satisfied with what exists either- especially when I believe it could be improved (and I don't suggest we rip out the wards either, which I know some people are worried about). Though I also think it's possible that there is a core issue in the database that makes it practically impossible to ever hope for change, but like chocobo's being allowed while DF is up (once said impossible) I don't want SE to think they should just give up investigating options even if they themselves think it's currently impossible. Which is why I've even said if it MUST be this way then at least take these lessons (the growing pains they've had with housing) into the next themepark mmorpg.

On that last point though I don't think players should lose their house even if they don't play 24/7, though perhaps be removed from the ward and put into their own pocket of space- keeping the wards active for those who are active(ish, 45 days seems fair) and keeping player's investment intact. I don't like taking away things from players. . . So houses are on that list certainly, of things not to do.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Let me stop this right here and now.

1) Adding more plots isn't as "simple" as you may think. There's a lot more that goes into it, on top of with the system currently implemented. They can't pick-and-choose which servers get more spots. If Balmung gets extra housing plots, for example. Then ALL servers get extra housing plots.

2) If you think having a Large House plot for your FC makes your FC more "appealing" to others, then you should probably re-think what an FC means to you. on top of that, you don't really have any right or power to say other people don't deserve what they have. Using the Lodestone (to my knowledge, at least) only shows that they're not online. Not how long they've been gone. If they were inactive for 30 - 45 days, they wouldn't have the plot anymore. Maybe they're playing other games, or have real-life things to deal with that take priority over playing XIV. Some definitely take the piss with this system, but it's there and we just have to accept it.

3) Adding more Instanced Housing (apartments) wouldn't even help it whatsoever. There's already people clamoring FOR Instanced Housing, but when said they can freely go and get one, they turn up their nose and scoff, as if it's below them. "So many players everywhere" is a gross over-exaggeration because only NA servers are affected and, given XIV's popularity. You have to realize that It's a pretty small percentage of the total playerbase. They had already stated they're looking into making Housing more accessible, but we don't know what that exactly means beyond "They're looking into it"

Making posts like this won't help. Like stated in several other threads, one giant thread with thousands of replies gets noticed, whereas hundreds of smaller threads with only double-digit replies and views get overlooked.

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It is simple, the elitist don't want it because then they won't feel special. IT's a small technical hurdle that SE has the resources to overcome. "Oh add hard drive, copy housing, change a few lines, done.

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Originally Posted by Casra

It is simple, the elitist don't want it because then they won't feel special. IT's a small technical hurdle that SE has the resources to overcome. "Oh add hard drive, copy housing, change a few lines, done.

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It's not that simple because of the way wards and world servers are designed, which is something you clearly don't understand.

If you really want a house that badly, then you should transfer to one of the 40 something worlds that have houses available to choose from.

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Originally Posted by Casra

It is simple, the elitist don't want it because then they won't feel special. IT's a small technical hurdle that SE has the resources to overcome. "Oh add hard drive, copy housing, change a few lines, done.

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Yes. Completely ignore and intentionally avoid learning the true reasons why things aren't the way you want. Just blame the people that have what you don't.

Works wonders every time. Especially when SE themselves had publicly said the reasons why it's complicated, yet you seem adamant on ignoring the information given to you and instead, veer off with wild abandon just to try and push your agenda.

There must be something special about the ishgard restoration that SE made it a server-wide effort unlike the doman enclave restoration, somehow i hope that if SE will initiate something close to housing, the catalyst event will be the Ishgard restoration...just over a month of waiting time left.

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

Please... do this - as my FC is looking to grow / add more players to its base and would like to be able to advertise large housing instead of medium. There are so many player owned mansions it is kind of obscene. (Yup - I've been stalking lodestone and comparing snapshots of player owned houses to see who's innactive vs active so I can more closely watch their plots).

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Oh my. That's some dedication right there. XD

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Originally Posted by AcaelusThorn

There are so many player owned mansions it is kind of obscene.

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Well somebody's jelly.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Well somebody's jelly.

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Well they should be, many don't have what the few got. :)