The new loot system for Savage is not good.

As someone that has been unable to ever obtain a static that ever has stuck together, the new loot system is terrible. It only benefits statics. It makes lootmaster look good, though no one would join a lootmaster savage party.

People should not have to compete against someone that already have certain pieces of gear and are purely rolling for alt jobs or rolling just to steal a coffer. It severely hurts the gearing process of those of us that use party finder to queue up. Most people would rather see the gear drop that no one can use, than lose on a coffer to someone that already has bis on their main job, while the person that needs it is still wearing mainly tome and crafted gear.

I'm not sure the best method of changing it, whether it be two gear drops and one coffer. Or two coffers, two gear drops. Or how it is in the final fight, with two coffers, and the gear drop. I feel that it needs to be changed in some way to help benefit party finder players.

I've obtained 4 drops from E1S over the seven weeks I've cleared. And three drops from E2S over the three weeks I've cleared. Though the E2S drops were two accessory upgrades and a tomestone. I'm guilty of rolling for alt jobs myself, but that's only after checking with my friend that I run with to see if he rolled high or not, and I pass on the pieces he needs even if he rolled low. But it' be impossible to ask 5 other players to do the same.

Unfortunately I don't see there being a solution to this unless they implemented something like 1 item per week so a person can't win everything.

That being said, I much prefer the current loot system, especially for weapons. There are what, 17 combat jobs not counting BLU?

Would be much better to fight over a weapon coffer than it would be to try for your weapon by banging your head against the 1/17 rng currently in game for weapons.

There are like 10 threads about the new savage loot system already. No need for a new one.

I never understand the complaint about having someone in PUG rolling on the piece they already have, they come with best gears they have and make the fight end faster, they should have every right to roll for items or did they should just do charity?

Would it be better if they change to 450 and join PUG so they are eligible for rolling?

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Originally Posted by LunaChild

I never understand the complaint about having someone in PUG rolling on the piece they already have, they come with best gears they have and make the fight end faster, they should have every right to roll for items or did they should just do charity?

Would it be better if they change to 450 and join PUG so they are eligible for rolling?

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This so much. I rather them enter with their 470 main they have mastered than a 450 alt they barely hold their own with.

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Originally Posted by LunaChild

I never understand the complaint about having someone in PUG rolling on the piece they already have, they come with best gears they have and make the fight end faster, they should have every right to roll for items or did they should just do charity?

Would it be better if they change to 450 and join PUG so they are eligible for rolling?

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IMO people coming up with reasons for "I deserve the loot more than that guy". As I already said in other topics: find a static. If I already have all the loot (I talking about PUGs BTW) in one class and you don't let me roll for other classes two things are going to happen:

- I go with the alt, so the run is not going to be as smooth.

- I stop doing it. Parties will be harder to fill over time.

If anything, I just wish they'd lower the number of books required to get loot.

Speak for yourself. As someone who only saw a single slaying accessory in ten weeks and saw several pieces hit the ground, I much prefer a system everything is actually useful. Ironically, our weapon drops in E4S have been awful; a nice little reminder how much better this new system is.

Now ways I think they could improve the system would be only allow you a single Need roll win per week. I suggested this in another thread but the way it'd work is say, everyone rolls need on the Belt, Earrings and Ring coffers. Should you win one of them, your subsequent Need rolls become Greed. What this does is still allow statics to divvy out loot as they place but also prevents someone in a pug from winning everything.

The new loot system is objectively better for everyone. Yeah, the one thing they could improve is lowering the cost of books for certain things.

Its really kinda sad to see people argue that they'd rather see all the loot drop to the floor than seeing someone walk away with gear they can actually use... Its not that I dont understand why people think like this and there have been discussions at length showing the problems in peoples thinking so that I dare say: At the end of the day this system is truely better for everyone, pugs and statics alike.

It might not feel better to get nothing because someone else got everything. But you could also got nothing with the old system for weeks while at the same time seeing those tank-accessories no one wanted drop for the fifth time...

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Originally Posted by Grymblyss

As someone that has been unable to ever obtain a static that ever has stuck together, the new loot system is terrible. It only benefits statics.

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my static is only 7 members and we have to pick up a healer each and every week, and yet each and every week that PUG healer walks away with at least 1 piece of loot. I know this is just an anecdote, but I refuse to believe this only benefits statics. I think it benefits everyone as no items hit the floor any more. The RNG is a tough sting at times, but the grand picture is that more people participating in savage have their gear and therefore more suited for savage. Which, if you PUG, is generally a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Its really kinda sad to see people argue that they'd rather see all the loot drop to the floor than seeing someone walk away with gear they can actually use... Its not that I dont understand why people think like this and there have been discussions at length showing the problems in peoples thinking so that I dare say: At the end of the day this system is truely better for everyone, pugs and statics alike.

It might not feel better to get nothing because someone else got everything. But you could also got nothing with the old system for weeks while at the same time seeing those tank-accessories no one wanted drop for the fifth time...

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Until someone in a static needs and wins and someone goes "Hey wait, didnt you already win that last week? I needed that for the job I play" and they're like "Ooops...oh well grats my alt job I guess lul." That's probably when friendships will end ^^

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Until someone in a static needs and wins and someone goes "Hey wait, didnt you already win that last week? I needed that for the job I play" and they're like "Ooops...oh well grats my alt job I guess lul." That's probably when friendships will end ^^

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I mean, accidents happen. If you had a static where this routinely happened, it's probably not a static worth being in. Regardless, a lot of statics Lootmaster to avoid accidental Need/Greed rolls.

Nah, only better for people who cant play their sub job in savage *hyperbole much*

But yeah no its not better nor worse since in the end its RNG, you can say its 1/8 but on the other hand it stay 1/8 unlike the previous loot system

Again im not saying the previous one is better, its just the sake rng with this one feel worse for me for various reason
(i only say its worse for me so its fact dont deny it its my feeling)

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Originally Posted by Miminming

Nah, only better for people who cant play their sub job in savage *hyperbole much*

But yeah no its not better nor worse since in the end its RNG, you can say its 1/8 but on the other hand it stay 1/8 unlike the previous loot system

Again im not saying the previous one is better, its just the sake rng with this one feel worse for me for various reason
(i only say its worse for me so its fact dont deny it its my feeling)

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I think not seeing "your" job stuff drop feels less bad than seeing drops contantly but having super bad rolls and never winning anything. It's like farming mounts, if it just doesn't drop I focus on getting 99 totems and it's like "eh whatever, droprate sucks, next kill is it I'm sure", but if it dropped every run but I'd lose every roll, the same thing would feel way more frustrating.

Guess each boss should just drop the full set of gear for each job.

This loot system is better than 3 weeks full of DRG and NIN stuff. At least everyone now has the chance to get something.

The problem isn't the system. The problem is the people.
On JP if you need a gear for your main, you use Need, if it is for another job then you use greed. Not interest then pass.
Got a globes and a head piece whit a roll lower than 30 this way.

Just make it 1 item per floor

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Originally Posted by MPK

Just make it 1 item per floor

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Double the amount of books we can get per week. That way not only hve people incentive to run it more than once, but you have something in sight at least. I mean, 4 weeks for an accessory? Are you kidding me? ^^

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Double the amount of books we can get per week. That way not only hve people incentive to run it more than once, but you have something in sight at least. I mean, 4 weeks for an accessory? Are you kidding me? ^^

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Then people stay subbed for half as long.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Then people stay subbed for half as long.

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Right, I forgot about that aspect .__.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Then people stay subbed for half as long.

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while in general this is true, we're talking about savage raiders, which is what...<10% of players subbed? I know raiders that only sub for raiding and unsub when they get their gear, but that sub $$$ has to pale in comparison to all of the casual subs.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

while in general this is true, we're talking about savage raiders, which is what...<10% of players subbed? I know raiders that only sub for raiding and unsub when they get their gear, but that sub $$$ has to pale in comparison to all of the casual subs.

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Then <10% of people would stay subbed half as long.

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Originally Posted by SekkerOfTrust

The problem isn't the system. The problem is the people.
On JP if you need a gear for your main, you use Need, if it is for another job then you use greed. Not interest then pass.
Got a globes and a head piece whit a roll lower than 30 this way.

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And this is exactly why I want to force this system onto NA/EU. The only way to do that is my prior suggestion because lets face it. No one is going to trust people to do that in PF this side of the ocean.

Easiest fix would be, remove all loot from the raid and only keep datalog. One datalog for one gear piece. Then you could not blame rng.

Saying that it's "not good" as if "good for statics" didn't count at all is a bit unfair.

The old system was terrible for statics (no way to guarantee BiS/role priority) AND terrible for pugs (no way to guarantee that anyone would get anything useful for their main). This one at least covers one of the bases and gives statics a measure of control over their progression.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Easiest fix would be, remove all loot from the raid and only keep datalog. One datalog for one gear piece. Then you could not blame rng.

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This would allow you to gear insanely fast; like everyone has their weapons week 1-2.

7 weeks in my static is done with e1s drops for mains. I'd say thats not bad at all.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Easiest fix would be, remove all loot from the raid and only keep datalog. One datalog for one gear piece. Then you could not blame rng.

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I agree with this so much. Would maybe make me consider doing end game raids, currently though when I know that there is a huge chance that those 3-4 hours minimum it is going to take PUGing something are going to result in nothing... I rather spend my time doing something where I get fruit for my labor.

number of gear sets: 7.
number of gear sets used in each group of 8: at most 6, since 4 of the players (healers and tanks) only use 2, 4 dps left puts it at 6.

Therefore, in the old system, each individual had a 1/7 chance of their class's piece dropping. Half the party then has to compete with their co-healer/tank, putting them at 1/14 for the loot. In addition, there's at least a 1/7 chance that the piece that drops is completely useless to the party. This "useless" factor continues to increase as pieces that have already been won and are no longer needed begin to litter the drop table, meaning the above numbers are the best case scenario.

In the new system, each individual has a flat 1/8 chance to win the coffer they roll on. No wasted pieces. No unfair weights against the healers and tanks. It is only slightly worse for the dps during the best case scenarios, but is better for everyone, especially moving forward.

The new system is absolutely a clear improvement over the old system. I won't argue whether it's good, but I'm definitely not going to support any notion that we should go back to the old one.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Easiest fix would be, remove all loot from the raid and only keep datalog. One datalog for one gear piece. Then you could not blame rng.

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In regards to this... I just did a little calculation on the basis of getting one item per tier per week for another thread and it feels relevant in regards to this suggestion aswell, so I'll post it here:

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Originally Posted by Vidu

To gear all jobs you need a total of 62 pieces of gear plus a maximum of 17 weapons, which ends up being 79 pieces total. Now, I know that the distribution of the different pieces varies, but it seems pretty likely to me that 6 months would be enough to get those pieces.
If we go with the assumption that you'll get one piece of loot from each tier each week and we'll assume on top of that that you'll get the "ideal" distribution (which seems fair if we apply your request to run this unlimited, meaning you can fish for the right gear), this is what you'd have to run - this is ignoring extra loot you'd get through tokens aswell as tomestone-gear that might be better. We'll aim for 100% Savage-gear or rather: as close to 100% as we can get, seeing how only one of two rings can be from Savage.

E1: 27 runs needed - 20 for all assecories, 7 for the belts
E2: 14 runs needed - 7 for gloves, 7 for boots*
E3: 14 runs needed - 7 for head, 7 for legs*
E4: 24 runs needed - 7 for the chest-pieces, 17 for the weapons

*gloves, boots and head gear drops in both E2 and E3 - it seemed more sensible to split it in a way that required an equal amount of runs from E2 and E3. One could ofc do 21 runs of E2 and only 7 of E3 (for the legs). Or any other combination.

So your biggest culprit here would be E1 with those 27 weeks - followed by a very tight E4 requirement if you truely wanted to gear up all jobs with just Savage gear.

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The current life-cycle of a raidtier are about 6 months or 24 weeks (give or take a bit, I'll stick to 24 weeks to make this calculations a bit easier). As you can see by this calculation if a system like you suggest would be implemented that lifecycle would allow you to get almost every piece of gear - you'd be missing 3 pieces from E1.
If you only want to gear one job - as most people probably do - you wont need more than 5 weeks and even those only because of E1. You could get your left side (minus the belt) in 2 weeks!

Which would lead to seeing the content die even faster - people are complaining now about not getting the piece of loot they want... if you'd be guranteed your drop after one clear we'd see people complain about not even getting a group together after 6 weeks...