Fixing The Praetorium

THIS POST WILL CONTAIN SOME SPOILERS FOR 2.0 AND FINAL SHADOWBRINGERS DUNGEON

It's not hard to see how long XIV has come in terms of delivering a story finale since the days of 2.0 and when The Praetorium was new.

Back in the day the fights in this dungeon felt alright, but ever since the cutscenes were made unskipable, the dungeon has become practically unplayable. I'm actually writing this while Nero indulges himself for 5 minutes. I have two friends that just started playing XIV, and I'm just a bit sad this is the experience that awaits them. I know some rework is planned for 2.X content sometime in the future, I don't think I've seen if there's gonna be work done for Praetorium (and even Meridianum) so I've decided to make a small post of stuff I'd do. if there's one thing from 2.0 I feel deserves/needs a complete rework right now, it's Praetorium.

My Fixes to Praetorium
- Sync item level to 90 as max
- Make the instance for 4 instead of 8 players
Both these previous fixes aim to make the dungeon feel less bloated, more focused and make the important fights not as easy as they currently are. I understand it's MSQ, but to be able to beat every boss in less than 30 seconds while ignoring every mechanic just makes the fights feel incredibly anti climactic.
- Remove a lot of cutscenes, have them happen as voice clips or text messages throughout the dungeon.
Amaurot is a great example of this. Instead of Emet going on for 5 minutes on a long speech, you get bubbles of text and experience the destruction of the city around you, and it's fantastic to tell the finale of the story thought dynamic means and actual gameplay. For Praetorium, you can have a back and fourth between Nero and Cid throughout the entire dungeon up to his fight, and have a single (shorter) cutscene for Gaius before his fight.
- Make Gaius the Final Boss of the dungeon. Rework his fight, make it a bit harder, and have that be the end of The Praetorium.
- Make current Ultima HM into a standard MSQ final encounter for ARR.
Maybe nerf the final Aetheric Boom, but the fight already exists. Current Ultima in The Praetorium is presented as this huge terrible fight but again, you can kill both its phases in less than a minute each. Ultima HM was a good old school fight. Re-using it as a final fight for 2.0 would just make the ending of the story feel much closer to where the expansions ended up going with their story finales.
- Lahabrea can be a cutscene only.
Even back in the day this guy was considered a pushover, and right now he's so worthless that the game makes him immortal at 0.1% only so that he can deliver all his dialogue. Just make it a cutscene post-Ultima fight and it should be more than enough.

I think Praetorium is in desperate need of a massive rework that elevates the end of ARR somewhere close to what the newer xpacs have delivered.

So, basically, ensure that the 2.0 finale is as incomplete and blah as possible before the credits launch ...

"as incomplete and blah as possible"

Sorry, I don't know how you'd get that from the post but no, the intention is the complete opposite.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, basically, ensure that the 2.0 finale is as incomplete and blah as possible before the credits launch ...

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Because it’s complete and not blah now?

If this suggestion is insufficient, what would you propose to make it better?

I think it is mostly fine as is - the story dungeon idea is something I kind of miss even though it quickly became toxic in ARR. I would have been fine with it as it is now.

However I do agree that the ilvl sync should be lower and/or the bosses should be tougher. Splitting out Ultima (as a version that is HM and actually hard) and Lahabrea (and making him not a pushover) would be fine.

Can't fix what ain't broke.

You have some really great ideas. I heard they're consolidating quests from previous expansions to make the entire story more streamlined (gutting a lot of pointless side quests I think), so hopefully they do work on those two dungeons because no one likes them. Great addition to the story, but very poorly executed. Those duties only make me borderline hate the characters in them because I've seen them say the same dialog 8 million times. I just hope they don't take away the 500 poetics from MSQR if they do rework it ^^;

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Originally Posted by Spectrum

I just hope they don't take away the 500 poetics from MSQR if they do rework it ^^;

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That's pretty much guaranteed. The reason the rewards for MSQ roulette are so high is specifically because of the locked cutscenes; back when they weren't locked, the rewards were dramatically less. I think a rework isn't a bad idea, if only so new players don't have to sit through people whining in chat about all the cutscenes, but any rework is going to bring with it reduced rewards.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Because it’s complete and not blah now?

If this suggestion is insufficient, what would you propose to make it better?

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I didn't think it was insufficient, I thought it eliminated the entire reason for the instance in the first place: Elimination of the Ultima Weapon.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

I didn't think it was insufficient, I thought it eliminated the entire reason for the instance in the first place: Elimination of the Ultima Weapon.

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Pretty sure that's not eliminated at all; what OP is suggesting is that the fight with Ultima Weapon be separated into its own trial, like what every expansion since HW has done - one final dungeon (everything in Prae prior to the fight with Ultima) and one final trial. The only thing OP suggested removing was the fight with Lahabrea, which, let's be honest, is effectively a glorified cutscene anyways, so turning it completely into one wouldn't change much.

Both Praetorium and Meridianum need a complete rework.

Both should be just normal Lvl 50 Dungeons, which should become just playable with an ARR based version of the Trust system with the order of the dawning npcs at that timeline, so Alisae (Summoner) , Yda (Monk), Papalimo (Blackmage), Alphinaud (Scholar), Minfilia (Whitemage), Cid (Machinist) and turning Grey Rock as Paladin and his caster friend , (Redmage, someone has to have taught Alisae how to be a Redmage) of the order into Trust NPCs too

Shorten the stuff, both have alot of unneccessary scenes and boring long talks that could easily be shortened to cut these two things down to dungeon format.

Doing this will help also newer players to catch up quicker, if you dont have to do all the ARR stuff with other players, but could use also just for the dungeon runs the trust npcs, without needing to wait for party members each time.

And yes UW should be an own trial, heck even such retarded garbage like the lvl 20 fight against Ifrit is one, where every veteran player could puke innerly to get drawn into this noob BS, and there you have that big final boss of ARR, that even gets not a spot as trial - ridiculous, and that only because of it being part of the MSQ roulette.

Seriouslr, remove that crap MSQ roulette and replace it with a better more senseful roulette, like a Treasure Hunter Roulette that puts 8 players into a random treasure hunt dungeon, or into Diadem, so that player get daile the chance once to go into them, without needibg to buy maps first, find the spot, kill a craload of trash mobs, just to have a big chance of wasting time, because of no entrance to the dungeon spawning.
Poetics Stone are not everything, there are more than enough options to get those stones elswhere fast

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

...My Fixes to Praetorium...

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Praetorium gives you a so high zergload of exp that you will never find anything other so high in exp/time reward in all the game, if that goes changed.

Half level exp for free is not a "problem to fix" to me.
Not counting all the rain of poetics that comes with it, if for some reason you need them.

Given their reluctant to touch older content, I sincerely doubt changes of this caliber will occur, especially separating Ultima from the encounter entirely. I were to hazard a guess, both Castrum and Praetorium will eventually be reworked into Trust exclusive dungeons and the MSQ Roulette will be removed. They outright talked about running it with Raubahn, and whether that would be feasible for them to do.

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

Poetics Stone are not everything, there are more than enough options to get those stones elswhere fast

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Barely anyone does it for poetics. We do it for the bucket load of exp.

What part of "If you don't like the content, don't do it" do people still not grasp?
Why do people want to fix something that they don't need to do? This is no longer a blocker for new players due to people ALWAYS wanting the exp reward as it is. If you remove the incentive of exp, new players will once again struggle to get a queue for it.

Literally the only fix that needs to happen, is removing it from the mentor roulette.

Although you have some quite nice ideas and I agreee the voice over from Emet in Amaraut is a pretty good example how to keep the story and background flowing without being stuck in cutscenes - I always get triggered by people saying: "This dungeon is unplayable" and "I'm sad for people who have to experience that"

Because it is not - It is not unplayable. Actually a lot of people are totally fine with the reworks and couldn't care less about the amount of cutscenes or the time they spent in there. The rewards are huge. It is worth it - otherwise there wouldn't be so many people queuing up for it (although they don't need it).
And especially for new players it is better that way. Because it is hard for them to get lost (not like before) and they actually be able to see the cutscenes AND participate in the dungeon instead from being thrown in one cutscene after the other with - in worst case - even skipping some unintentionally.

They already announced that they are going to re-work it and I'm pretty sure they have ideas how to make it work. You do have great suggestions - not gonna argue with that. But why bring it up now?

One thing they could fix is you getting it more often in the roulette. You have about a 5 to 10% chance getting it. I don't see problem with it how it is now at least it's not boring like other one is.

Agree that if they lower the item level it would actually make the fights within matter again.

On the cutscenes dont think the changes have to be that complex. Just have them play at 200% speed will already cut the time spend on it in half.

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Originally Posted by Illiandra

Agree that if they lower the item level it would actually make the fights within matter again.

On the cutscenes dont think the changes have to be that complex. Just have them play at 200% speed will already cut the time spend on it in half.

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How would you adjust the voiced scenes? Difficult to take Lahabread seriously if he sounds like he's on helium. Just remove the voices altogether?

The cutscenes are already benchmarked against the longest, slowest spoken language. What can be said in 1 second in English can take 3/4 seconds in say, German.

iLv90?!?! Are you kidding? Thats WAY too high!
Back when my LS was iLv45-49 we steam rolled the places while watching videos on youtube.
The MAX should NEVER be above 50, and even then, 50 is too high.
(But you cant reasonably lower it below 50)
But seriously,the difference between iLv50 and 90 is pretty drastic at that point in the game.
Ilv90 is just shy of being able to solo the whole place.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

I didn't think it was insufficient, I thought it eliminated the entire reason for the instance in the first place: Elimination of the Ultima Weapon.

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That logic would claim the entirety of an expansion is eliminaited due to a final fight.
You still have to go through the place to get to Ultima Weapon.
Its not like you can skip it, and go straight to Ultima Weapon.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, basically, ensure that the 2.0 finale is as incomplete and blah as possible before the credits launch ...

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Um...it feels like absolute crap as it is now, what are you on about? You literally skip the majority of the trash and the boss fights are hideously boring.

I know as a new player experiencing it for the first time, I absolutely hated it. I asked my FC what the hell was that crap? Same for the other one but that one isn't anywhere near as bad.

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Originally Posted by JowyAtreides

Barely anyone does it for poetics. We do it for the bucket load of exp.

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This. I used to not like the MSQ roulette for a long time, because of the boring not skipable cutscenes. But nowadays I don't care. I go into it, play on my phone, make a tea etc. during the cutscenes, do the quick fighting when cutscenes are over and enjoy the amount of exp in the end - even on a high level. That's it. Of course there are lots of other ways to get exp, but in my case, I'm fine with having the opportunity of an easy (but long) way to get a bunch of exp.

In one of the live letter Yoshi addressed the dungeons and said they've floated the ideas of changing them to 4-man dungeons or adding trusts, but they don't have any solid plans or even complete commitment to changing it. Ultimately, if they nerf the dungeons it shouldn't make too much difference to first-timers and we'd probably see a reduction in rewards if they lowered the time commitment.

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Originally Posted by Reinfeld

...but they don't have any solid plans or even complete commitment to changing it...

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Didn't knew you are a project manager at SE. Good to know. Help them!

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Didn't knew you are a project manager at SE. Good to know. Help them!

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Just going by what I remember of the Live Letter response. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That was the gist of his answer to Praetorium complaints.

Only change they need to do is quit pausing the talking in cutscenes and speed them up. Also if you undersize it make it so can't skip cutscenes. Why you even forced to watch them in undersize when you get no exp. or tomes from it.

The ultima weapon HM doesn't have the first part though, so the transition would be weird if the dungeon ended after gaius. I am in the camp of being sad that these dungeons turned the way they did because I like the idea of longer 8 man-dungeons. Obviously not with so many cutscenes though. The design of the both dungeons themselves are a mess though, they have these really weird pathways and enemy groups are all over the place, it just reeks of realm reborn when they didn't quite know what to do. Like the last part in meridianum, where you are supposed to avoid the big magitek guys while turning of the searchlights, the whole path and area design is just clunky and really bad, I have no idea how to do it the legit way, the team is supposed to jump from the first tower to the ground? Just cutting the cutscenes and pruning the maps themselves would do a lot. I am fine with them splitting the ultima fight to it's own trial and include both phases in it, lower it's ilvl scaling and add maybe a mechanic or 2 to make it actually relevant.

The fight itself always felt really lackcluster to me, not just because of the difficulty, but the attacks themselves are super meh, like the hardest part of the fight are actually outside threats (magitek beams/airships crashing) and not anything the ultima weapon does, he just shoots a laser to the ground that's super easy to avoid and throws like 1 primal mechanic without any threat to you in the beginning, fuck that, make him have cool and crazy abilities with nice visuals that actually require some form of thought, hades is a good example of this, they really nailed the last bosses after arr. Like they could easily make him shoot out fire/wind/earth aether as a raidwide aoe damage and have aether diffused laser beams that inflict different things, it doesn't have to be super hard, but just make him do something that feels it's ultima weapon, not this big robot that shoots a lame laser to the ground.