an idea for the egi system

hi there

summoner is always stuck with the 3 egis(garuda,titan and ifrit) and im sure we all want to be able to summon some of the different primals that are in the game.
so without changing too much the egi system i thought about an idea for summoner and allowing him to have different egi primals.
i know we have the egi-glamor but it quite flawed and not really good (pets don't have right animations and limited to carbuncle/egi change and that also not a good one).
this idea is how to allow us to swap the pet summoned without the hassle of changing their system so much.
(based on the comments the idea is for a new rework for the egi glamour,ty to all your comments)

unlocking the system:
upon unlocking garuda ,summoner will have an addition quest that will allow him to unlock that system i called it aether-change.(basically the same as unlocking the egi glamour system).
main idea:
it basically an edit UI for summon I,summon II and summon III.
you start with summon I having garuda-aether equipped ,summon II titan-aether and summon III-ifrit.


how to acquire a primal aether:
after unlocking the system, there will an npc with list of primals that the summoner can choose from to do a single solo duty (each primal will be unlock/added to the list only after he completes their quests) and at the end unlock that primal aether in the aether-change menu.

how to use:
each primal aether will be categorized by the different egi types(caster,attack,support).
while the summoner is out of battle and outside of any dungeon, he can enter the UI and change the aether equipped for the summon buttons to the ones he wants, changing the summon pet to a different one for the skills.he can only change to the aether he unlocked after completing their solo duty.

in the UI,there will be a switch button to allow to change the summon appearance between egi and carbuncle.
each primal aether will have a carbuncle color associated with him for example: ifrit->ruby,titan->topaz,garuda->emerald,shiva->snow blue,ramuh->purple ...

i don't believe it will require much change to the egi-system but rather add a UI window and will allow players to use their favorite primal from the game without breaking the job or require much for SE to do except create the egi asset.
SE wont even have to create so many egi straight away,they could just do it with a few popular ones and then add in batches at their own pace.
Although its not multiple summons like everyone wants ,i think if we at least get the ability to change the pet from the summon button will ease those of us who want to use other primals in the game .

so this is my idea and id like to hear your opnions:)

If I'm reading that correctly, a simpler solution would be to just allow use of egi glamour to other egis directly. No need for a separate aether change system or menu. E.g. /egiglamour garuda-egi titan-egi would make your garuda egi look like titan egi. I.e. you'd have a titan egi with garuda's abilities.

I like the idea of miniquests to gain additional egi glamours though. It's very FFXI.

well,its not to change just the appearance of the egi but maybe add different ones that might have a different skills.
the egi-glamour is just to change appearance not the actual pet and her skills.
Also i do believe that the egi-glamour system is kinda flawed and lacking right now and also i believe making each egi changed to either appearance of a carbuncle can be quite troublesome to design for every action of the pets if they are planning on making different carbuncles especially if u include the different primal egis.

I’m convinced at this point that we simply won’t see any more Egi for Summoners. Which is pretty sad, because most people are in agreement that the current 3 are pretty ugly (and way too tiny if you ask me lol)

But I imagine if someone asks about Egi glamour the devs will just give some lame excuse like ‘oh but we’re too busy making the next Demi-Summon’. As if they haven’t had 6 years to already to try and make the Egi look less like jaggy blobs with different colours. They really should have renamed ‘Egi Glamour’ to ‘Carbuncle Swap’

The idea of going around doing sidequests to get new summons sounds pretty fun but I don’t expect them to ever implement another Egi or more glamours

well,they might not give a damn but i believe if the community pressure them SE will answer something about it.
better to have a solid answer from SE about that issue then staying in the dark like that,at least that what i think.:)

I like the basic idea but I don't think it's feasible to add many egis with different abilities. If their effects stay the same and it's just different animations, it becomes much more feasible. The reason for this is balance. Every SMN needs to have the same DPS potential no matter which egi is in which Summon slot.

So Summon 1's Egi Assault 1 will be the same amount of DPS no matter which egi is set to Summon 1. As much as a free for all would be ideal, I do think it would be best to have melee, caster and support egis - at least at first so they don't need to develop 6 animations per egi from the start.

The main thing that irritates me with our current glamour system is the animations not matching the pets element. I'd be happy if they could at least fix that.

At this point with the way egi's work now (basically being nonexistent since they don't take damage, can't be targeted, don't generate their own aggro, and only use a single auto attack on their own with all their other skills being on egi assault) I think the best way to go would just be to get rid of them altogether and replace egi assaults and enkindle with demi assaults that summon a demi version of various primals to do a single attack/ability similar to NIN's Hellfrog. Then they could easily swap out various primals for the three demi assaults in a number of different ways.

Alternatively they could actually make the egi's impactful by upgrading the egi assaults, tying them to aetherflow and dropping fester/painflare. It would reduce the insane number of ogcd's and make aetherflow feel like less of a completely separate mechanic. Of course that doesn't fix the issue with the egi themselves being a glorified autoattack for SMN.

Regardless I agree fully that they need to implement more primal options and with how minimal the impact of the egis currently is I feel now is the best time they could actually do it. The fact that they didn't even bother to give us a Sephirot egi glamor despite already having one in the game is pretty bad honestly and I can only hope the reason they didn't is because they are actually working on implementing something with them.

The Demi-Summons feel a lot more like traditional FF summons to me than the Egis do..

Personally, I hope they *don't* add more Egi summons until they make them less detached to the direction SMN is going.

I feel like the SMN and the egi system needs a complete rework where we move away from this designated pet job and instead become an actual summoner, as in the act of summoning is part of our core rotation. As it stands now our job is in this weird in between phase of where the job used to be in ARR (focused on diseases, festering the diseases, and ruin) and what it's becoming (DWT, Bhamaut, Firebird). Even now our main mechanic aetherflow doesn't interact with DWT or summoning in any way. Part of the reason I think the job feels so bloated now is because it's trying to be both jobs at once, an arcanist and a summoner.

Like imagine instead of casting bio you instead summoned ifrit at the target who would attack for 30 seconds and serve the same purpose as the dot. And miasma would be a second summon like titan. And instead of festering the target to cause damage you could use egi assault. It would command both of them to attack exactly like fester does where it obviously does nothing if there are no summons out and is supposed to be cast when both are out for maximum damage. Imagine putting multiple dot/egi's on many targets and so you have multiple groups, possibly smaller models if needed, attacking your enemies. Bane could be this awesome spell that splits/summons forth a horde of egi's for each target required instead of just splitting up your diseases.

Kind of just had a bunch on inspirational ideas out of the blue as I was writing this. I might try to consolidate it all and start a rework idea thread later.

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Originally Posted by Vitreus

I feel like the SMN and the egi system needs a complete rework where we move away from this designated pet job and instead become an actual summoner, as in the act of summoning is part of our core rotation.

Kind of just had a bunch on inspirational ideas out of the blue as I was writing this. I might try to consolidate it all and start a rework idea thread later.

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i agree with you that summoner needs a rework (really really need a rework that makes his kit more related to summoning)but i do believe with that the egi doesn't neccesarily need to be extinct.
i might have an idea that with the current egi system will make them more integral part and maybe actually fun,i heard people actually like to command the egi like that so il do a second rework idea ^^ so,ty for your comment and looking forward to your idea:).

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I like the basic idea but I don't think it's feasible to add many egis with different abilities. If their effects stay the same and it's just different animations, it becomes much more feasible. The reason for this is balance. Every SMN needs to have the same DPS potential no matter which egi is in which Summon slot.

So Summon 1's Egi Assault 1 will be the same amount of DPS no matter which egi is set to Summon 1. As much as a free for all would be ideal, I do think it would be best to have melee, caster and support egis - at least at first so they don't need to develop 6 animations per egi from the start.

The main thing that irritates me with our current glamour system is the animations not matching the pets element. I'd be happy if they could at least fix that.

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i thought about what you said and you are right,all pet skills should be the same only different egi-appear and also about the carbuncle/egi situation gave me an idea to my new "egi-glamour" system. il edit it soon. ty as well for your comment:)

Summoner threads are always my favorite since early on because its the job that has so many ways to approach its motif/design and yet the development team really tends to waltz around a few concepts it has without really committing to one. Devs definitely need to look at Summoner and need to commit to one or really figure out how to make most things they want to implement work with each other.

Id like the egis to maybe be upgraded into demi summons like Bahamut and Phoenix. A demi Titan would be way cooler than floating bread crumbs

Well No mention of egi-glamours again this live letter. It was brought up during the media tour for 5.1 but guess its somewhere in the backlog far down.

I like that they made egi assaults casts. Gives me an idea for the next expansion where we can get a possible trait for to upgrade the 2nd egi charge into Demi-assaults. Gives a new casting animation of ifrits claw or something like that rather than an egi animation. Feels like there is more potential for growth with egi's as casts rather than ogcd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vitreus

I feel like the SMN and the egi system needs a complete rework where we move away from this designated pet job and instead become an actual summoner, as in the act of summoning is part of our core rotation. As it stands now our job is in this weird in between phase of where the job used to be in ARR (focused on diseases, festering the diseases, and ruin) and what it's becoming (DWT, Bhamaut, Firebird). Even now our main mechanic aetherflow doesn't interact with DWT or summoning in any way. Part of the reason I think the job feels so bloated now is because it's trying to be both jobs at once, an arcanist and a summoner.

Like imagine instead of casting bio you instead summoned ifrit at the target who would attack for 30 seconds and serve the same purpose as the dot. And miasma would be a second summon like titan. And instead of festering the target to cause damage you could use egi assault. It would command both of them to attack exactly like fester does where it obviously does nothing if there are no summons out and is supposed to be cast when both are out for maximum damage. Imagine putting multiple dot/egi's on many targets and so you have multiple groups, possibly smaller models if needed, attacking your enemies. Bane could be this awesome spell that splits/summons forth a horde of egi's for each target required instead of just splitting up your diseases.

Kind of just had a bunch on inspirational ideas out of the blue as I was writing this. I might try to consolidate it all and start a rework idea thread later.

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I agree with this.

Without more egis, and without meaningful choice in using the egis, and without the lag I don't understand why I should enjoy egi assaults in any ways. I know they don't like pet classes but I don't understand why you'd actively make a pet feel so terrible as Egi's do. Their terrible potencies, Ifrit having to be in melee range, and the fact that like you said Aetherflow doesn't fit in, it becomes a garbled mess. I liked when they made it where we could instant swap summons, but now I'm like "oh I have no reason to because it's just "hit one guy or hit a bunch" instead of any real change in skills.

SMN is three different systems being integrated minimally together, and none of them feel satisfying beyond Baha Blast and Phoenix Wright. I wish Egis fed into Bahamut and Phoenix to make that mean more, but right now SMN is littered with sub-100 potency skills AND a mix of like 3 different playstyles forced together. It sucks every time I try to go back to it lol. I noted it in a reddit post once but I was playing a bunch of Astral chain and watching the player roll around with the Legion Summon and do skills and damage was what I wish Summoner was, but right now the egis are just a waste of time/space without a substantial buff/redesign.

The only egi system SMN need is no egis at all lol having a pet is so frustrating. I think they should stick to Demi summons which are awesome and makes you feel like you are summoning something.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

The only egi system SMN need is no egis at all lol having a pet is so frustrating. I think they should stick to Demi summons which are awesome and makes you feel like you are summoning something.

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Honestly I think they need to drop the pet entirely. Either it's going to be the mindless auto attacking system from before or it's going to be the new system with horrible pet AI/interaction. Personally I'm biased to the idea I thought of where our damage over times are replaced with summone egi's attacking the target for the same effect, but besides that I agree with Demi summons being amazing. I really want bahamut to get the same treatment as firebird where our ruin/outburst spells are replaced with an attack through the summon as well.

Also for the love of the twelve can we please have DWT synch back up with spending aetherflow? It feels so disjointed now and like I said before aetherflow now isn't tied to the act of summoning at all like it was before.

I think they should scrap the "pet class" and either upgrade all the egis into demis or completely rework the job in a way where we use abilities that increases a gauge. Once it is full, we can choose to summon 1 of several primals to unleash their ultimate attack whereas each one could have a different effect: Phoenix - damage + regen or healing effect, Ifrit - damage + dot effect, Shiva - damage + stun or slow effect, Bahamut - straight up damage, Odin - damage + chance for instant KO or to apply doom (via Zantetsuken, with bosses immune), etc. Just get rid of egis completely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vitreus

Honestly I think they need to drop the pet entirely. Either it's going to be the mindless auto attacking system from before or it's going to be the new system with horrible pet AI/interaction. Personally I'm biased to the idea I thought of where our damage over times are replaced with summone egi's attacking the target for the same effect, but besides that I agree with Demi summons being amazing. I really want bahamut to get the same treatment as firebird where our ruin/outburst spells are replaced with an attack through the summon as well.

Also for the love of the twelve can we please have DWT synch back up with spending aetherflow? It feels so disjointed now and like I said before aetherflow now isn't tied to the act of summoning at all like it was before.

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The funny thing is, if you actually wanted to optimize summoner play, you had to micro-manage the pet in ARR, SB, and especially HW to maximize its DPS because of contagion, and the UI in ShB for controlling the pet is about 3 orders of magnitude better than it was from ARR through Stormblood, to give you an idea of just how bad it was. But I digress.

I agree that I want the egis removed and the class focused around the trance system with augmented rotations and spells based on which pet is out. Some can be mindless, while others could be thoughtful, all depending on which demi is out to match its personality.

What Summoner really needs is a bottom-up redesign to scrap all of the old, original poison mage/pet designs that were done because the devs didn't know how to make a proper summoner for FFXIV at the time, and just make the class a coherent experience. They did it with Machinist, they can do it with Summoner. And if they really wanted to, they could even change the class off the books or split Scholar into its own standalone job to fully differentiate everything, and just find other ways to rewrite the lore to make sense.

Like, when you look at the class, you see a class of many different eras. Poison mage (DoTs), Aetherflow (something to do when not maintaining DoTs), Trances (something to do when you didn't have aetherflow up), Trances being used to summon Demis, and trances directly augmenting your primary GCD rotation, as well as the spells used.

As you can see, even though Trances have started as one thing, it's become a core part of the class, and arguably the better, more interesting part of the class.