PotD floor 200 solo clears

Release date for the achievement - June 20, 2017 (4.0)

EU - 0
Chaos - 0
Light - 0

JPN - 21
Elemental - 8
Gaia - 5
Mana - 8

NA - 7
Aether - 2
Crystal - 2
Primal - 3

All on RDM.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

There's probably more people, but when you world transfer it wipes you off the board.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

All on RDM. Thoughts?

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:3


-My thoughts

my thought is that solo deep dungeon is so boring that I would never do it.

People have been asking for nerfs to it for awhile now to make solo clears actually possible, even if still extremely hard. SE hasn't budged and likely never will.

The thing that concerns me is absolutely zero European server players have the achievement. Complete zero. Every other datacentre has at least one. What's going on?

When I learned that I basically have to grind hundreds of the tokens to buy the regena potions I instantly lost all interest in that challenge :x

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The thing that concerns me is absolutely zero European server players have the achievement. Complete zero. Every other datacentre has at least one. What's going on?

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Maybe the EU players are just smarter than everyone else and know not to bother?

They should never nerf this achievement. It is extremely difficult to clear solo. I have been trying for awhile now. Those people that did clear deserve their accolades and it should be kept at that level. Heaven on High is a bit easier as it is only 100 floors and can be completed with most jobs. Give that a shot.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

They should never nerf this achievement. It is extremely difficult to clear solo. I have been trying for awhile now. Those people that did clear deserve their accolades and it should be kept at that level. Heaven on High is a bit easier as it is only 100 floors and can be completed with most jobs. Give that a shot.

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Thing is this achievement can only be cleared /with/ RDM. It's impossible on other jobs. Even then when only 28 people have managed to get this achievement it speaks of Gordias levels of overtuning. Not even the Centurio Tiger is this gated and hard to get.
No one is asking this achievement to be nerfed into the ground but it's all kinds of stupid that barely even 30 people out of millions could manage it, and likely due to sheer dumb luck.

There's probably more people, but when you world transfer it wipes you off the board.

I've taken a run at it a few times, but the RNG-heavy nature of PotD (and HoH for that matter) and the sheer time commitment involved make it rather daunting. Just not my kind of content.

This was meant to be incredibly difficult. It should not be nerfed. As far Europeans not clearing it, who cares? Worry about what you do. Why don’t you give it a shot and be the 1st European to do it. Some people like it. Some people hate it. We are all different and will do the things we enjoy not to mention different skill levels, so not everyone will be able to do everything.

This should be easier to get. Things can be hard and fair. This looks hard and absurd. Why would I want to grind for hours, at least, just to have a shot at attempting an achievement that only one class is capable of getting when all classes can try. Not only that but when success will be dependent on the random nature of the content?

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

The thing that concerns me is absolutely zero European server players have the achievement. Complete zero. Every other datacentre has at least one. What's going on?

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Lower population and the servers seem to be perpetually on fire.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Those people that did clear deserve their accolades and it should be kept at that level.

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RDM received buffs in 4.4 and it's possible the 5.0 combat changes have changed the difficulty, even if only slightly.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Not even the Centurio Tiger is this gated and hard to get.

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Anymore. It took many months of hardcore farming to get before cross-world visits were added, which seems to be about the amount of time it would take to clear floor 200 solo if the player had the skill.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

There's probably more people, but when you world transfer it wipes you off the board.

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Interesting.

Well i bet many gave up over constant DCs and loss of savegames... but it would rly help if you could save your progress every 10 floors and continue from there, while still gettin the archivment. The same work but at least a bit less rng over rng and random Dc...

I'm fine with it.

There aren't amazing exclusive rewards tied to it, it's there for the personal accomplishment and prestige. If you're the type of player who loves a challenge then this is the ultimate for you. Why should an extreme challenge content be nerfed so people who have no interest in extreme challenge can do it? If you do that, you change it into something else entirely.

I'll never do this and I have respect for those who did. It's an incredible achievement. The amount of preparation, indepth knowledge, luck, skill and time needed for this is insane.

As for PotD however, I'd like to see BLU allowed in there. Seperate from the main leaderboard, but it could be an interesting way to renew interest in the class for Night Pegasus farming.

Pomander RNG still determines the runs so much. Without steel you can't beat the 190 boss (and worst case is you need 2 steel) .. Or fight most mobs. That is what makes a great challenge with requires the knowledge and skill into something sad when you don't get the right pomander and therefor end up hitting the time limit because you can't clear it in those 60minutes.

Maybe that's the only way to still let skillfull players progress without nerfing the content, by extending the time limit to 70 or 80min.

Btw EU had one clear, but it was very suspicious one, the character was an alt or new account and seemed boosted. He was only a low lvl 60s rdm, which means the person must have cleared it in only a few tries or even just one try... Maybe somebody used hacks idk or the person must have been a former clearer with luck to clear it before even hitting lvl 70 lol.

They removed tether from redmage, the bind was useful when you added multiple mobs at once. Now you have to use pomander... Atleast that means it's more difficult now.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

but it would rly help if you could save your progress every 10 floors and continue from there, while still gettin the archivment..

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People would wipe on purpose until they have the best pomander rng to continue the run. Sustain potions aren't really a problem because shards drop frequently and the drop isnt tied to clearing the floor, and because of that it would only become a question of time instead of a question of skill. It would make the achievement way easier than you think, unless you would only be allowed a certain number of deaths in the whole run, like 3 or 5 if its unlimited it would devalue it extremely.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Lower population and the servers seem to be perpetually on fire.

RDM received buffs in 4.4 and it's possible the 5.0 combat changes have changed the difficulty, even if only slightly.

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It isn't easier in any way as of 5.0 changes. Its actually harder now as RDM lost tether for those luring traps that are absolutely brutal 150+.

It's not the difficulty that bothers me. It's the fact that only RDM can clear it. This in turn simply means that the content is not properly optimized and that only RDM can circumvent that issue.

If no one else can see or understand this, I don't know what else to say except ask yourself and answer honestly if you think content--no matter it's diffculty--is proper if it can only be cleared by one job when it's actually supposed to be designed for all.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

It's not the difficulty that bothers me. It's the fact that only RDM can clear it. This in turn simply means that the content is not properly optimized and that only RDM can circumvent that issue.

If no one else can see or understand this, I don't know what else to say except ask yourself and answer honestly if you think content--no matter it's diffculty--is proper if it can only be cleared by one job when it's actually supposed to be designed for all.

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Exactly, as if the amount of RNG luck you need with pomnaders,disconnects,etc isn't enough, only a single job can solo it.

Seems poorly designed in that aspect.

If it's soloable by other jobs, it will be too easy on redmage. As soon as you try to realize it for other jobs, you are creating a lot of work for devs. There is no easy fix without nerfing it the same time.

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Sustain potions aren't really a problem because shards drop frequently

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...Are we playing the same PotD?

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

when it's actually supposed to be designed for all.

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I'm not actually sure it was intended to be completed at all.

Floor 200 of PotD was released in patch 3.45 (November 2016).

However Red Mage wasn't added until 7 months later with 4.0 (June 2017).

If anything Red Mage broke the dungeon as it wasn't designed for that job.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

I'm not actually sure it was intended to be completed at all.

Floor 200 of PotD was released in patch 3.45 (November 2016).

However Red Mage wasn't added until 7 months later with 4.0 (June 2017).

If anything Red Mage broke the dungeon as it wasn't designed for that job.

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Then the question remains: why is there an achievement for 200 floors solo? Before RDM's arrival, did the devs put it there fully knowing it was just not possible and they were being wholly cheeky with it, or were they hoping someone might be able to?

And given how much time has passed since then and only RDM has been able to complete, does it mean that PotD's solo clear is still poorly optimized for all jobs or is it that no one's been able to figure out how to make it work with other jobs (excluding all the RNG)?

One thing's certain: the older this content gets, the more glaring it's issues become, especially when they're accentuated by the fact that no other job can solo clear it.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

did the devs put it there fully knowing it was just not possible and they were being wholly cheeky with it, or were they hoping someone might be able to?

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No idea, but it reminds me a lot of Absolute Virtue from Final Fantasy XI Online (recommend looking it up as it's quite an interesting tale!). A boss that was added that was so impossible no groups could beat it. And everytime people found actual tactics taking advantage of how the game does things, the devs patched them out so they couldn't be used, even though they were the only only known ways it could be beaten. 3 years later SE nerfed the boss and the level cap increase did the rest, but to the best of my knowledge in all that time it wasn't ever beaten in a way devs deemed acceptable.

So if PotD 200 wasn't actually intended to be beaten, it wouldn't be the first time SE have done something like that.

There is a difference between “difficult to clear” and “impossible to clear”

Non rdms have the latter, that means something is wrong.
They would not let this happen if it was occurring in other content, so it comes of as looking rigged. Especially since there is a high score attached to it and HoH.

probably only way to nerf it would be the time limit

alot of Jobs cant do it because they either cant sustain themself well or not enough damage
Which is why RDM is only one to do it
since its damage is pretty good for Lvl 60 and vercure but even then starting a run as RDM is pretty troublesome because you wont get vercure till 52 which is awhile away


the Runs are 100% dependent on RNG as well
no strength or defensive pomander game over

Side note PotD is probably the reason why RDM will keep vercure permanently

Well, as soon as you realize, whatever efforts you do, a lack of luck can ruin everything, you don't bother even to try.

A bad chest that spawn a pack of mobs when you are short in timing and you clear is dead (if they not kill you).

RNG is a poor way to make challenge.

RDM for one PLD for the highest score for another... the clear of this kind of content has a problem of balance.

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Side note PotD is probably the reason why RDM will keep vercure permanently

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Somehow I doubt that PotD soloability is really anywhere in their considerations when doing job adjustments, considering that SMN was one of the only other classes that was a contender for pulling off a PotD solo until they took away pets' ability to tank.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

...Are we playing the same PotD?

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Yes, if you would be running solo 200 attempts, you would know it. The gelmorran shard treasures contain it way more often past 100. The runs are self sufficient if you don't ignore the treasures because you are scared of them containing mimics. HoH on the other hand is not, you have to spam 20-30 multiple times to get enough sustain potions, because the shards from hoh100 runs are not enough.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Somehow I doubt that PotD soloability is really anywhere in their considerations when doing job adjustments, considering that SMN was one of the only other classes that was a contender for pulling off a PotD solo until they took away pets' ability to tank.

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They only added aoe to rdm for low level scenario, everything else is the same. The aoe is useless for PotD, redmage is exactly the same as before the addon despise combat formula changed. So they think at least about redmage imo.
Most jobs will wipe at the 180 boss because the heal check at the end is too big. The best try for summoner is therefor 180.
The only guy that managed to get past 180 as something else than a healer or redmage, is a mnk on a jp datacenter who reached 184.

The changes required to make it soloable for every class but still keep the difficulty for redmage are difficult to make.... I know you want optimization, but propose a method to do it without changing the whole experience it had for several years

Well redmage is the only job that can even try to do this because of the healing and DPS necessary to get through that.

And it takes a huge amount of time, skills and sadly luck to even get there and one DC can kill hours of work..so honestly its not surprising to see the numbers of clears for the different countries. Try to do this and then be kicked out of it at the floor 150 boss because the game just said "no" without any fault on your side..and it surely stops from being fun.

I mean the EU DC chaos is known for being horrible at times.

Pomander of Benediction maybe?

Since it'd be a Pom, still keeps it kinda sorta RNG and has limited uses.

really the rng of the poms is the main bugbear. a small tweak to the poms distribution would help. Making sure each floor has at least one each of strength/steel would be a start. some others they can apply a minimum of X per 10. they can do something similar for HOH. That leans it all more towards skill/tactics than plain old RNG. Failing that, they can change the amount of poms you can store instead, when you're looking at 200 floors, 10 is probably a reasonable number.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Not even the Centurio Tiger is this gated and hard to get.

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Sorry to pop this bubble, but centurio tiger is ridiculously easy to get with xworld now as long as you put forth the effort. I do agree with the rest of the sentiment though. There have been threads in the past asking for a nerf or some sort of adjustment to make it more reasonable ie identifying solo players and letting them have more pomanders to hold, etc. But nothing came of that either.

Hi! Just figured I'd leave some of my thoughts here. Some of you might know me as the one who writes the POTD/HOH solo/party guides :3

I think SE has learned a lot from POTD solo, and HOH was designed with that in mind (boss damage is sustainable with potion/steel). HOH is very solo-friendly and people have cleared on all sorts of classes. POTD solo is definitely a more questionable experience than HOH. Not only is the climb long, but it's a lot easier to get screwed by unfavorable RNG due to a smaller amount of tools to deal with things (e.g. concealment in HOH can get you past some nasty rooms, where in POTD you might have no option but to rage a room of proximity-detection monsters sitting on an exit). Moreover, mechanics such as the 180 boss's enrage, as well as the insane damage output of the 190 boss, means that any class that's not RDM has next to no chance (there are some niche strategies to delay the 180 boss rotation and burn it down, as well as methods to sustain through the 190 boss, but such techniques are very hard to execute). But, I think that's ok. As much as I would love to see POTD soloed on more classes, it's probably tricky for them to retroactively balance content, even though we know it can be done, seeing how they tuned HOH.

I see a lot of people complaining about the difficulty, or RNG-nature of the content. As weird as this might sound, I think the RNG is the most exciting part of it. I've done a lot of savage raiding as well as some dabbling in ultimate and the interest of those encounters is a lot less than deep dungeons for me, due to them always being the same - you eventually memorize a rotation for them and do the exact same thing every week. With deep dungeons, there's a lot of decision making on the spot. Moreover, the sheer length of the content ensures that nobody really gets "RNG carried" to a victory. Though, it is definitely balanced in a way such that, with garbage luck, you can play perfectly (which myself, and many other long-term deep dungeon soloists cannot manage to do) and still not be able to clear. If it was balanced to be clearable with said garbage luck however, then it'd be far too easy should you get above-average luck.

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Originally Posted by MagicalLoli

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Exciting?

With my garbage luck, since I never manager to clear at least the first ten levels, I wouldn't call that exciting XD

I see what you mean but... the problem is garbage luck is punished the first levels. I could understand luck matters more and more the levels we climb, but at the start, it kills the possibility to acquire experience and somehow, find some way to, at least a little, deal with garbage luck (even if we can't hope to clear all the levels).

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

Exciting?

With my garbage luck, since I never manager to clear at least the first ten levels, I wouldn't call that exciting XD

I see what you mean but... the problem is garbage luck is punished the first levels. I could understand luck matters more and more the levels we climb, but at the start, it kills the possibility to acquire experience and somehow, find some way to, at least a little, deal with garbage luck (even if we can't hope to clear all the levels).

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you do know that you can avoid every floor trap right?

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

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Yes, that's not the problem. You... probably don't get what "garbage luck" means. You need to experiment it to know what it really means and... there's no fun at all. If... luck is between -5 and +5... I'm... around -4. Hopefully, it mainly applies to games, thought real life isn't really fun.

Can anyone explain why it can only be done on RDM?