New Crafting system and those 25-35 range opinions

I'm like many of the new changes to the crafting, however I think it is still unbalanced for Success/Level.

I'm sure this is all good for someone who has their crafts maxed, or near maxed, and attempting HQ’s. But it seems to me if your middle of the road, and trying a synth at your level or even 1-2 levels above your level for XP, then I fail more often than succeed. This is focusing on just trying to complete the synth not even on quality for extra XP, and including gear and food bonuses.

I’ve seen a few threads on this, with people loving it hating it, having lots of failures, gaining 2000+xp per synth, etc…

What I’m wondering is what anyone else that is still in the 25-35 range is experiencing while trying to gain XP?

Do you find it nearly impossible to complete a Levequest that isn’t below your current skill level?

When I do complete a synth I can get 150-200quality if I’m lucky and generally I’m at less than 10 durability. Maybe I’m just entirely unlucky, or my approach is entirely wrong now. Any tips on how to craft now? Or sites to reference?

-Thanks in advance

I get (usually) well over 1000 xp per synth by doin math in my head as i go, if its not way above me i'll hope to get lucky with one rapid synth, use perfection if you have it for that, tender touch for standard synth x2 or x3, to get progress around 70%, then its masterpiece and fullfilment or whatever other success + ability you might have and careful synth til its done/almost done. you may need to adjust the plan if rapid fails or if you just use an extra couple standards.

Doing recipes anywhere from 1-5 levels above me nets me tons of xp and its not so complex. 150-200 quality is more than enough to get a great amount of xp per synth, priority should always be to not break though.

I am currently leveling weaver (Lv30) and I find synthesis to be a piece of cake. I'm getting 1,000~1,500 exp easily per Linen Thread(Lv34 synth) with no exp bonuses (rested/manual/etc).

That said, I have a bunch of other skills from other crafts (Perfection and Hand of the Gods, mainly) that greatly simplify my synthesis.

Honestly, the only way you can be failing with the current system that I can see is if you are 1) trying to push your quality too high, or 2) having horrible success rates. #1 can only be fixed by changing the way you craft (or by leveling other crafts for their helpful abilties). #2 means you're either doing something way over your level, or your gear isn't up to par.

Crafting is easy o.o. I just stack a lot of +control, and do standard/preserver/mass production or assemble to ~60-70%, then spam careful, and do perfection+rapid synth for 30%.

The actions of Perfection, etc all seem to be 36+ of course... I'd like to see people attempt the same synths without them.

On basis... you should be able to craft something at your level without crazy amounts of buffs... I understand for HQ, it should require more, etc... but for a normal synth, with normal gear this doesn't seem to be the case for me anyway.

I do have some luck with blinding speed, for rapid, preserve and fulfillment, and makers muse, but I still seem to fail more often than not, and that’s with using the master facilities, eating food, etc. So you can say my gear sucks, I don't know what I’m doing... which I don't, I'm learning, so any tips, or how to's would be nice, any recommendations on lower skills to use? Any orders to use them, etc.

Previously I could at least complete synths regularly at 3-4 levels above for leve quests, etc. Now unless i'm synthing something lower I don't complete nearly as many, and have to retry/retry/retry the leve quest. So to me personally, I don't think it's quite balanced for an average build, as my gear didn't change, but the crafting system did, and things I could complete before, I can't now without retrying them 3-4 times before I can complete the required number of items.

So far the only path I see is I synth lower until I can get some higher actions, or I have to buy every control+ gear that I can just to synth NQ at my level.. which shouldn't be the case in my mind, specially not trying to just level, and definitely puts a damper on wanting to level a single craft not to mention a slew of them. Hopefully maybe it's me having a bad few days, and next week I'll have more success.

Control is for elemental stability, if you're not having stuff go outta control then you don't need more of that. If your rapid keeps failing don't use it, try two or three extra standards instead. also pay attention to the leves, some (many even in some cases) recommend you have abilities that you used to be able to purchase with guild marks. the marks were removed but the leves haven't been updated yet, it makes for awful synthing. add that to needing subcrafts for many old leve recipes and it could be a recipe for disaster. there are many reasons you could blowing things up.

There was a similar thread on General Discussion, the OP stated that he had a lot more failed synths than successful ones - just after the patch.

Guess what the majority of people said to him? "You're doing it wrong. Your fault"

Sadly, I'm in the same boat as you. Crafting as a lv 50 WVR is nice, and easy. But as a lv 17 ARM? Or lv 25 GSM? I just get frustrated. A lot. As I said in the other thread, I was spamming standard pre-1.21, naked and without issues. Post-1.21 I got crafting gear, support and even food and now I'm failing at least 1/3 of my synths (if not more).

I'm still want to think I'm doing something wrong, but I just can't understand what. If I start with rapid and it fails two times, the durability gets low, so even if I try to save it with standard it fails. Starting with standards seems to give me more headaches than the other two. A few careful + standard and finishing with rapid worked for like two tries, then three more failed. All of this with some abilities I have, but as OP stated - someone just beginning without abilities might have a rough time (would need to actually "test" this).

I would love to see the gearset, level, and target synths those of you who are failing are using, how high you are trying to push your quality, and how far your progress bar makes it before you fail.

Those of us with a bunch of abilities did things back in the day without using Careful Synthesis at all. Perhaps you should be doing the same.

Leveling ALC, currently at 32. I was at 30 when patch 1.21 hit. I've been enjoying doing lv35~ recipes ever since and getting 2k+ xp per synth.

More power to ya if you can get 2k exp per synth and not fail more than 50% of the time. You don’t happen to mention what are you using for exp boosts, gear, stats, abilities or the process to do so.… which you have to be using to get a 2k exp synth in my mind, as there is no way I can come close to that normally.

I did a bunch more testing for myself today, and had better results with the same gear/setup I had yesterday. So maybe it was just my bad luck, combined with my bad approach… but I wouldn’t say all of it was. I wouldn’t say that the system entirely is balanced either, but I would say that the more you know how the system works, the more you can do with it.

As I originally stated, if your using abilities that are above/beyond, that’s not helpful, as it’s not a true view of the system. IE if you “Have” to use a lvl 36 ability, that you wouldn’t have at a lower level, then you’re essentially stacking the Deck.

Just as another poster said, I’d like to see your stats/gear/process. Maybe I can learn from it, or change my method.

Based on some of the feedback, I stopped trying to use rapid and tried to use blinding speed + rapid as a hail-mary attempt when I got to ~10% durability and had no chance of completing the synth unless rapid succeeded. But I was watching my durability much more and trying to keep in mind how many attempts I had left. Which with the new crafting system you have limited attempts, as you always loose durability for standard and careful, while previously one could succeed and have no loss on any option occasionally.

I did have more success with lvl 16 culinarian than with a lvl 28 goldsmith, and can get my failure rate down to ~25% or so which is better and lets me complete the leve quests anyway.

Lvl16 cul => Lvl20 Leve + Gear + Master support + aldgoat milk = 36 Crft, 39MgCrft, 24 Ctrl
Lvl27 gsm => Lvl30 Leve + Gear + Master support + aldgoat milk = 50 Crft, 52MgCrft, 62 Ctrl

These stats allowed me to use mostly Standard synth to ~60%, get in a few Careful’s and then have a good chance to finish with another Standard ad end up somewhere in the 100-120 Quality range.

If you look at the different methods:
Standard -- 8-13% durability lost per synth => maximum synths ~8
-- 8-30% Progress, average seems to be ~20%, while average fail ~10%
Rapid -- 18-24% durability loss per synth => Maximum failed synths ~4 (Success = 0 loss)
Careful -- 8-10% durability loss per synth => Maximum synths ~10
-- 3-5% progress per synth
So even if you succeeded every time, you can never complete a synth using only careful, you might make 50% Progress.
Using standard, on average you have about 2-3 careful synths, maybe 4-5 if you get some higher progress initially.

Since I am still having trouble finding information on how to properly synth maybe this will also help someone else, as these tips seem to work for me, this is nothing around HQ, or maximizing your quality, etc.. this is simply trying to complete the synth, and is not based on buying a bunch of craft+ or control+ gear.

I would say try to get the best crafting tool you can closest to your level, as that does seem to make a difference and gives a good stat boost.
1) You have to watch your durability/progress, not as much stating out, but definitely when you get below 40% durability, as you only have ~3-4 synths left to complete the craft, and make up XX-Percent progress
2) Use standard to ~40-60%, Use Preserve/Fulfillment, Check your durability, if it’s 50% or greater, then try a few careful synths to help with quality, Use the remaining ability and try to finish the synth with standard, and maybe even grab an extra careful if you get o 95%+
3) Keep in mind durability, since you will always loose durability in standard and careful.
a. For example: if your durability is ~10, you will break more times than not using standard. You have a better change using careful, however if you’re not at 96% careful will not finish the synth… At this point you are out, last resort is to use blinding speed and try for a rapid. Rapid seems more successful if you use wait 1-2 times for a solid white.
b. If you are at 92+ progress, and have more than ~18+ durability, you can most likely complete 2 careful synths and have a better chance at completion than using standard in my experience.
4) If you seem to be failing a lot, stop crafting, do something else, come back later. I find I have better results trying at different times.

You don’t have to agree with me, this is just what seemed to be working for me today, if you have a better method, share it, or point me to some links.

The highest I've gotten is 2.6k from a lv 35 leve done as a lv 30-31 ALC while under rested bonus.

Generally I start off with Rapid/Standard based on the level of the recip and/or previous experience with success rates. I tend to use Tender Touch for Standard and Fulfillment for Rapid (I don't have Blinding Speed). I also have a GSM skill Pride of Labor which can advance the progress by 30% on success, but only takes 5 or 10 dura on fail.

Once I get to a point at which I am comfortable with the progress/dura ratio I spam careful the rest of the way, augmenting it with Masterpiece, Preserve.

I'm still working on getting Perfection and Hands of the Gods, both of which will significantly boost my ability to reach higher Quality levels.

Gridania leves seem more difficult than Ul'dah.

I think the folks with the higher level abilities are having a much easier time.

On a leve, I might Blinding Speed and get a Rapid or two in, then Quality the rest of the way.
Or if durability is going to fail from Standard, gambit with Rapid.

On the plus, I think I've passed the Velveteen and Steel phases of those respective crafts.

As others have mentioned, gear + abilities go a long ways in finishing leves successfully and grinding your levels. I've crafted for a good while, and tried to level all crafts (besides cooking) pretty evenly. I range from 26-31, with 36 alc, and 18 cooking as the ones outside that range.

Before 1.21 I was all about Control. I wore every piece of armor that had it. Only did synths amd grinds that were 4-7 above my level. 7 was pushing it at times, but my success rate was in the 90%+ range I would say. Only failed a handful of leves, more often they would be the "dated" ones. Times I would major fail would be from Unstable lightning or wind.

My current set up is as follows for gear:
Black Usagi Kabuto - Control +7 - Level 20
Ul'dahn Gown - Control +5 Magic craft / Craft +5 - Level 25
Dodoskin Shepherd's Belt - Control +8 - Level 17
Cotton Breeches of Toiling (brown) - Control +5 - Level 21
Fingerless Leather Gloves of Toiling - Control +8 - Level 25
Velveteen Gaiters - Control +8 - Level 28
Horn Earrings - Control +3 - Level 25
Silver Choker - Crafts +3 - Level 29

Before 1.21 I used Preserve, Tender Touch, Fulfillment, Maker's Muse as abilities, depending on how many I could equip. Never had a problem finishing leves and grinds as long as I stayed with in range.

After 1.21, I still use all Control, however, I changed what abilities I do now. Netting 2k xp a synth, with no resting bonus is awesome. Now I use Masterpiece, Tender Touch, Perserve, Hands of the Gods, Blinding Speed, and Fulfillment.
The change is night and day. From being able to set more abilities (no action costs) and having them always be on the list to use, crafting is a breeze.

I also want to point out, I did not get Hands of the Gods til just after 1.21. I was working towards it doing Daily Guild point turn ins and leves, since I didnt want to fish to level it. I stopped leveling other crafts to make it to 36 alc first, and am now working towards 36 crp.

Now my routine so far, is Masterpiece > Careful @ start. Perserve > Standerd to boost Progress bar to about 60. Hands of the Gods > Careful to boost Quality up, then I fiinish with Tender Touch > Careful or Standerd depending on Durability left. Maybe have to toss in a Blinding Speed > Rapid or Fulfillment, but thats rare. I have not had any issues with grinding or leves so far and average 250-350 quality, starting from 0.

I grinded Flax into Linen (33) as 27 Weaver with no issues, got 2 full levels with not even 1 stack of Flax, with rested bonus. Did a Carpenter leve of Teak Plank (33) as 26 Carpenter, again no issues. 1700-2100 with no rested bonus per synth on that leve. Of the few times I have failed, it has been becuase of me trying to push that Quality up just a little higher and botching the final synth to get 100%. Only one fail has been because of Unstable, so far.

Hope this helps a bit!

I normally try to get to 70% before I start to focus on quality, you will know at this point if the synth is going to your favour of not and either complete the synth with standard or try for a bit more XP.

As someone said above if you just do simple math (remaining durability) + (Progress) = more than 100 then you can take a gamble and use careful synth.

I would suggest trying to max your control as much as possible I'm not sure if this reduces loss in durability but I find it much easier to succeed in a synth if I'm wearing gear with a lot of control on it.

I genuinely do not have trouble with the new system. Even though the individual attempt fails are more common, I rarely fail the synth itself. However, I also have most of the crafter abilities at my disposal and I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. I used the method I am about to share to get all of my straggler crafts up to 41. Here is an example of what I do:

Gear: I don't focus too much on gear but I make sure to have a nice distribution and do not focus on one stat at the expense of others. I tend to like the coatee sets. I also make sure to wear stat rings for the tool I'm using like Heliodor rings for CRP (again only level 41). Don't forget about the new earrings and necklaces for crafters either. The bonus is small but it helps. Another note, if it matters, I haven't bothered melding crafter materia into my crafting gear and don't see much need to.

Synths: I do not waste my time on synths below my level and almost never do anything even on level. In the past I would always try to do synths 5 to 7 levels higher than my current crafting class. Right now, I'm finding you get the best xp ratio when going for quality if you stick to crafts that are only 3 to 4 levels higher. Going higher starts to see diminishing returns.

Process: I will use finished item synths as an example and use CRP again. First I will harmonize and then immediately follow up with an assemble. It will almost always work this way and get you 30% progress right off the bat, sometimes without using any durability if it is a "success!" I will then go immediately into a resolution to maximize the vitality so important for quality gain on my primary tool (saw). Hit careful three times. For the next ability I like to use masterpiece even though it works best for mass production because you can still get some good gains to quality. By now my quality is around 300. Next I will use an ability like high return (preserve works here too) and continue to smack careful synth right up until it fades. This puts me at around 500 or more quality and I am down to anywhere between 6 - 17 durability. Go another round of careful with hand of the gods active. Now I am around 600 quality or higher. If you have enough durability, give it one last careful then finish off with a perfection and a rapid synthesis for a free, no durability loss, finish and tons of xp.

If the initial assemble fails, I switch it up a bit with a perfection and rapid synthesis right at the beginning and then hit my high return (or preserve) to get a standard synth off, two if the first fails. I'm at 45 - 50 progress at this point and then I go right into my careful synthesis path above right until the end. Hand of the gods makes this possible and will finish strong for you. The quality gain on this is less than if assemble hits but it's better than a total fail and still pretty damn good xp compared to what we used to get.

Hope this helps people.

P.S. keep in mind the above example only works well for finished item synths on a class that is using a tool that benefits from VIT, like CRP. You would have to modify the abilities based on the synth, class, and tool you are using but the basic formula works like a charm for me no matter what I'm doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wynn

First I will harmonize and then immediately follow up with an assemble.

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Unless Harmonize's function changed with 1.21, it doesn't do anything for you at the start of a synth. It doesn't reduce risk for X number of turns, that much I can assure you, because you never get a 'Harmonize wears off' (or whatever it says) message.

All Harmonize is really good for is reducing/removing Aetherial sparking, and you certainly won't have that at the beginning of a synth. Risk is some magical number that starts at 0 and slowly grows depending on the actions you take and how successfully you performed them. If it gets high enough, you begin to see a few sparks--higher, even more sparks, etc.

To me, Harmonize is a garbage ability, and I think you're wasting a crafting ability space. Judging from the abilities you listed, I would suggest Fullfillment, or one of the many "increases chances of success" 1-turn abilities.

Above data is mostly assumption, as we have no solid data on "risk".

Wait/Preserve > rapid 2x > careful / wait > standard or rapid if needed. if you fail rapid 3x, you will screwed up anyway

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Unless Harmonize's function changed with 1.21, it doesn't do anything for you at the start of a synth. It doesn't reduce risk for X number of turns, that much I can assure you, because you never get a 'Harmonize wears off' (or whatever it says) message.

All Harmonize is really good for is reducing/removing Aetherial sparking, and you certainly won't have that at the beginning of a synth. Risk is some magical number that starts at 0 and slowly grows depending on the actions you take and how successfully you performed them. If it gets high enough, you begin to see a few sparks--higher, even more sparks, etc.

To me, Harmonize is a garbage ability, and I think you're wasting a crafting ability space. Judging from the abilities you listed, I would suggest Fullfillment, or one of the many "increases chances of success" 1-turn abilities.

Above data is mostly assumption, as we have no solid data on "risk".

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Harmonize reduces risk for the entire synth, as soon as you use it. That's why I start with it, unless it doesn't appear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Harmonize reduces risk for the entire synth, as soon as you use it. That's why I start with it, unless it doesn't appear.

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I highly doubt that, but I have no evidence to the contrary. I certainly won't believe it until I see some evidence in your favor though.