so i main scholar and shadowbringers has left ya boi dissapointed. Seraph was kinda cool, but SCH being a pet-based-healer type class it is severely underwhelming when you take the time to compare it to its brother, the SMN class.
without making this post long and confusing, i have a suggestion i think would be a neat idea to help, or at the very least fix SCH.
problem 1: Scholars have plenty of wasted resources in the topic of down time and Aetherflow.
Idea: Add a skill to SCH called "Tactical Advance". Tactical advance Costs 1 Aetherflow and can be used when either targeting one self, an ally, or targeting Eos/Seraph. Ill get into what it does to Eos/Seraph in [Problem 2]. Tactical Advance, when targeting oneself or an ally Tactical Advance refreshes all of the target's cool downs by 6 seconds per Tactical advance cast.
Idea: Add a skill to SCH called "Sun's Knowledge"(the name is a reference to a quote from Sun Tzu). Sun's Knowledge costs 1 Aetherflow and can be used either targeting an enemy, an ally, or targeting oneself. Simply put, when targeting an enemy everyone fighting the enemy gains the ability to see an enemy's elemental weakness and strengths. When targeting oneself the knowledge of how to attack the enemy is placed upon yourself -- if you can currently see the enemies weaknesses, the damage-type of all of your dps spells change to that weakness for 20 seconds -- if you cannot see the enemies weakness then all of the spells change to a random damage type for 20 seconds. This works the same way if you use it on an ally.
Problem 2: Seraph is pretty underwhelming (20 second duration, uncontrollable heal, 2 minute cool down), Seraph is sorta useful, but by the time its cast both constelations the time she will be up is just about over, knowing this i dont even bother taking the time to casts whispering down and fey illumination while seraph is up since it does nothing special and it would be an actual waste of time .
Idea: Tactical advance (as mentioned above). When used on selene/eos, it reduces their spell's CD by 10 seconds per Tactical advance cast.
When used on Seraph it Extends her summon time by 10 seconds per Tactical advance cast.
Problem 3: Unlike SMN, seline and eos are all we get, they dont even do anything diffrent from eachother. So I say , if all were going to get is skins, can we have a better variety of skins.
Idea: Allow SCH to glamour their fairies to be any one of the Fey creatures found in Il Mheg, since the fairies are fey anyways.
Scholar and Seraph
Printable View
-
08-18-2019, 05:23 AMP0W3RK1DScholar and Seraph
-
08-18-2019, 06:27 AMBillythepancake
TBH, I love the idea of Seraph, I think, in concept, she is really cool, with SCH having their own version of Bahamut, but in practice. Eh, she's okay, but she's not game changing, if you took her away from me I could do any high end content no problem. I really wish she had more of an impact.
-
08-18-2019, 06:36 AMBrandedblade
Shes basically rouse with a slightly better effect and free (pet potency) Succor she could serve to be more impactful but it doesn't kill me that she isnt.
-
08-18-2019, 06:52 AMMhaericSeraph's cooldown lines up exactly with Fae Illumination and every other Whispering Dawn, so I treat her as a Rouse replacement. Since it's an oGCD there's very little reason not to. This result in a rotation of sorts on the AoE regen: double buffed regen - normal regen - repeat. Her free Succors are useful in a handful of situations, so the only time I'll do something different is if I know I want her bonus Succor stacker like for a boss ultimate or an ahk morn or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
-
08-18-2019, 07:05 AMHanayumi
Yeah have to agree seraph is basic rouse with shields. Give seraph a passive effect similar to pheonix, "angelic aura" or something, and have it increase damage everyone's damage by like 2-3% while she is out.
-
08-18-2019, 07:53 AMBillythepancakeThe problem with that is, she would be required to have out every time she's up, otherwise it's a dps loss, which I don't think is the solution. I think it'd be better if all the versions of her abilties, not just rouse, were stronger, or if they had seperate CDs from the other fairies. Also if she had anything else to do while she was out, instead of just succor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanayumi
-
08-18-2019, 07:55 AMConnor
What if Fey Blessing became Fey Wind when Seraph is summoned? Could still have a fairy gauge cost for balance and lets us use Blessing for something when Seraph is out. Either that, or maybe it could have 2 charges that are shared with Consolation to make calling Seraph feel more worth using when you don’t need the extra shielding. It’d be nice to have it back in some form since I loved being able to support the party if we didn’t need the extra healing. If the Haste buff if too powerful, maybe it could just be a direct damage buff at like maybe 5%?
I really like the idea of a support type Aetherflow ability. We kinda have one with Sacred Soil, but that’s more of a healing/Regen ability. The cooldown reduction one does sound fun with the interaction with fairy/Seraph, but if it was useable on any other target it’d risk being extremely overpowered. I think maybe some sort of crit buff would be the most fitting for a support Aetherflow ability, since it would synergize with Chain Stratagem and could be used on self to get more crit Adlo chances. I feel like something defensive would better fit the toolkit overall, but we already have Sacred Soil, so it’d probably be too much to have more. -
08-18-2019, 07:57 AModym82
I honestly don’t play SCH but i will say that visually at least, Seraph is very underwhelming in comparison to the SMN demi-primals. Still sexier than the egis tho (unless you really have a thing for animated crumbs of food, hence carbuncle glamours)
-
08-19-2019, 01:14 AMHanayumiI dunno I feel like I'd ok with that to be honest, kinda been doing it on fights where folks know groove of a fight, most of the time just toss her up so can dps away with little worry of healing. Unfortunately better heals aren't the best incentives when runs get cleaner... D:Quote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
-
08-21-2019, 03:40 AMRivxkobeWe have Energy Drain back now. This is not an issue anymore and if you still feel you have "downtime" (which you never should) or "wasted resources" then that's a you problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
Okay. So, two things.Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
1. We don't need more things to spend Aetherflow on.
2. I see issues with this. Reducing CDs by 6 seconds, depending on who you target, may not be worth the loss of an Aetherflow AND this would cause things to misalign for anyone you target with it. And if this was seen as a strong ability to help one player get their damage window up faster again (ie. SAM) then SCH would be completely imbalanced. Because it would be highly sought after so it can just spam one move whenever it had Aetherflow up, greatly reducing what groups would expect from it, giving it less flexible and agency. But I don't think this would ever happen, more likely everyone would just ignore this ability.
Again we don't need more abilities to spend Aetherflow on.Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
Also, after reading this, I seriously have to ask if you even play FFXIV. You say you do but, like... Elemental strengths and weaknesses? Weird things that happen with elements and somehow this not only mattering, but your abilities elements changing to random ones for... some reason?
She's fine. Delaying Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination casts is a you decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
Why? They have two abilities and neither are even that long. Not only would this be a complete waste but its insanely difficult to target your fairy now anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
Why? What would this even do for anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
They aren't even the same though. Eos and Sleene are Faeries. Not even sure if they are "fey" in FFXIV. The Il Mheg fey are pixies and Nu Mou.Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
I'd like Glamour but SMN can only glamour into Carbuncles so its different.
Also, they use to be different but one fairy or the other was never used, depending on balance, because the other was just flat out better.
This would be a waste. We can already force a critAdlo and using it for a critAdlo would be a DPS loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
Everyone needs to stop suggesting damage increasing support abilities for SCH. Not only is that an AST thing, for the most part, but if you added one to the current SCH they would easily become the "must have" healer for every group... Again. We have Chain Statagem, this is enough.
I know a lot of you don't want to hear this, but: SCH is fine being a position where it isn't blatantly the most overpowered Healer. It does not need to be the "must-have" choice so WHM and AST fight over the second spot while it sits comfy. SCH is fine for the most part, it needs to be ironed out but it is currently decent. And being decent is perfectly reasonable with the current state of things. I know its hard, SCH has been riding high since its release basically but chill, it doesn't need to be the best every expansion. -
08-21-2019, 04:01 AMClouse_Cleyra
I like seraph. Its double aoe its pretty good to heal on e4s while keep doing dps that is very much needed
-
08-21-2019, 01:09 PMP0W3RK1D
[QUOTE]
no, no, I appreciate the energy drain, its really helpful. But all we have to spend out aetherflow on is 1 dps ability and about 4 healing/shielding abilities that are not exactly "unique" , it would just be nice to have some neat utility to use it on, y'know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivxkobe
I must dissagree on that, the point of this ability is not nessecarily to make the scholar OP or even strong (althought thats probly what this ability would do :D). The point of this ability is to make the Job more unique and usefull, giving it a bigger purpose than just a heal and shield factory with a slightly defective pet duct-taped to its ankle. Right now all of the healer jobs have a big blaring issue -- they have different mechanics, but as far as base gameplay goes, they are hardly unique and play more or less the same, and in fights will most likely be played like this. [Shield or regen heal > aoe heal > heal > heal > heal > special heal (ps: special/big heals are petty much all the same) > heal > buff > heal > repeat until the fight is over, taking the time to throw out some dps or damage buffs when possible, even though]. In retrospect this skill feels like it would be fore more of a Time-mage (if ever implemented).Quote:
Okay. So, two things.
1. We don't need more things to spend Aetherflow on.
2. I see issues with this. Reducing CDs by 6 seconds, depending on who you target, may not be worth the loss of an Aetherflow AND this would cause things to misalign for anyone you target with it. And if this was seen as a strong ability to help one player get their damage window up faster again (ie. SAM) then SCH would be completely imbalanced. Because it would be highly sought after so it can just spam one move whenever it had Aetherflow up, greatly reducing what groups would expect from it, giving it less flexible and agency. But I don't think this would ever happen, more likely everyone would just ignore this ability.
-
08-21-2019, 01:13 PMP0W3RK1Dagain, i must disagree with that, we difenatly DO need more application for Aetherflow. And to answer your question, I dont just PLAY the SCH, I MAIN the SCH, as in, I hardly play anything else. If you Didnt know, there was a Scholar Job in final fantasy 3 , that job had abilities that allowed it to scan an enemies weaknesses, and even remove beneifial effects. thats what inspired this suggested ability, and for the scholar it does make sense, both historicly in the franchise, and thematically. Admitidly the problem is that right now elements, and elemental weaknesses dont play a big role in the game yet, and as is obvious it is usually overlooked.Quote:
Again we don't need more abilities to spend Aetherflow on.
Also, after reading this, I seriously have to ask if you even play FFXIV. You say you do but, like... Elemental strengths and weaknesses? Weird things that happen with elements and somehow this not only mattering, but your abilities elements changing to random ones for... some reason?
Quote:
She's fine. Delaying Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination casts is a you decision.
Why? They have two abilities and neither are even that long. Not only would this be a complete waste but its insanely difficult to target your fairy now anyways.
Why? What would this even do for anyone?
Alright, first off , yes, casting it is a YOU decision, but its a bad decision, i mean, the spells are even RENAMED when Seraph comes out, but low-and-behold they do nothing new or even exciting, they are the exact same skills as Eos/seline, and if i didnt know any better i would say they are there to just waste your Seraph time. And the problem does not just have to do with thoes 2 abilities -- its seraph as a whole. Not just the long recast and short duration, but also her usefulness and loss of direct control in 5.0.
WHen you look at SMN they get 2 big summons in the span of 120 seconds, for 20 seconds each; they both attack WITH the player, and Phenix even has a passive buff when summoned, even the 3 summons that are not the demi summons are cool and each have 2-3 abilities that have CHARGES you can activate on command.
SCH gets only 1 summon, and a slightly red reskin; NO glamours, 3 of the 4 abilities it has has a cooldown that is a minute or longer. the scholars "Demi" summon lasts for only 20 seconds, but in comparison to SMN has twice the cooldown with half the overall effectiveness -- dont get me wrong, Seraph IS usefull, and I would even go as far as to say its a life-saver in a pinch, but its huge wasted potential. its only "unique" cooldown ability is yet another aoe heal that only has the time to be used twice before Seline has to go, and its single target heal is out of the players control. -
08-21-2019, 01:16 PMP0W3RK1D
Secondly, I think the Whispering dawn cooldown is..."ok" but fey illumination has the same cooldown as summoning Seraph, thats a bit too long just for a small buff like that. And as far as targeting goes; you are aware that there is a key-binding specifically for targeting your pet....right? in fact, im pretty sure you can even turn it into a macro buttion -- even without all of that, tarting my fairy is not that hard...
Ok, now I know your screwing with me XD. Bruh....Faries > Fey. ITS IN THE NAME! they even have a skill called FEY Illumination, FEY blessing, FEY union! A fairy is a Fey creature by definition. Get outta here with that XD.Quote:
They aren't even the same though. Eos and Sleene are Faeries. Not even sure if they are "fey" in FFXIV. The Il Mheg fey are pixies and Nu Mou.
I'd like Glamour but SMN can only glamour into Carbuncles so its different.
Also, they use to be different but one fairy or the other was never used, depending on balance, because the other was just flat out better.
Even if SMN can only glamour carbuncles, atleast its something , and it even makes sense lore-wise.
And the fact that only one fairy (eos/seline) was primarily used tells you there was a problem with seline being far less useful, i can almost guarentee you if SE had have seline a unique, more useful ability that eos didnt have she would have been far more used, but it was simply wasted potential.
[/QUOTE]Quote:
I know a lot of you don't want to hear this, but: SCH is fine being a position where it isn't blatantly the most overpowered Healer. It does not need to be the "must-have" choice so WHM and AST fight over the second spot while it sits comfy. SCH is fine for the most part, it needs to be ironed out but it is currently decent. And being decent is perfectly reasonable with the current state of things. I know its hard, SCH has been riding high since its release basically but chill, it doesn't need to be the best every expansion.
I dont disagree with you on the part that SCH is decent, and in fact , I personally would PREFER that SCH wasnt the best in each expansion (i like the challenge ;) -- however when we went into 5.0 a large chunk of what made the healers (referring to AST and SCH) unique and fun was ripped from them and replaced with more of the same.
Oh, and my apologies for the world war 2 highschool essay length response XD, i just had to aress everything -- im not doing that again, just burnt an hour...that want by too fast XD -
08-21-2019, 02:12 PMDuskane
I was more excited for sacred soil trait than seraph tbqh
She seems a little tacked on but Bahamut did aswell since job quest doesn't mention any thing about it -
08-21-2019, 10:13 PMBrandedblade
Fey Illumination is good though. Its cooldown lines up with deploy which means you can use it buff shields. The other big thing is the fact it not only affects you and your fairy, but also your cohealer and any potential paladins and red mages in your group.
Not to mention if you do pop it during Seraph you buff any Seraphic Veils she throws out while under it.
The 5% magic mitigation element of it is a tad weak yes, but considering most raidwide damage is magical, the fact you're liking already using this to buff an adlo deploy that just means the mitigation is just a small cherry on top. -
08-22-2019, 06:52 AModym82
I’d play SCH if I could glamour the faeries as Moogles
-
08-22-2019, 06:27 PMMansion
I like the idea of Seraph, but I mistakenly thought that using Fairy actions under Seraph would be buffed (because their name and icons changed), when they actually have the same potency.
While keeping Illumination aligned with Seraph buffs Consolation and one Regen every two minutes, I feel it's a bit underwhelming.
But then, do we need more healing power? I'm not sure either. -
08-22-2019, 10:25 PMDeceptusThis is essentially my take on it. Why have new abilities if they're exactly the same as the old ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansion
-
08-22-2019, 10:44 PMnalol
usually I feel my 2nd consolation is wasted.
I rarelly need 2 coz u rarely need 2 AoE succor in a row .. with 15sec interval. I'd prefer 1 charge, stronger. or make all the fey abilities stronger while seraph is up.
it's not like bahamut whre u want to squeeze as many dps as possible. If consolation is useless, u will .; at best overheal and clip or weave. -
08-23-2019, 02:39 AMlokowokoElemental stats were removed in stormblood, to make it a feature in eureka and will most likely never see the light of day in normal gameplay again, i'm with the other person in thinking you don't play ffxiv or at least you've just jump potted into shadowbringers with the lack of knowledge you're showing.Quote:
Originally Posted by P0W3RK1D
-
08-23-2019, 05:00 AMClouse_CleyraWow chill out a bit. Lack of knowledge? I have played and raided since ARR anf I never knew we even had elemental weakness and even less that it was thrown into eurka xDQuote:
Originally Posted by lokowoko
-
08-23-2019, 06:02 AMMhaericHer regen is indirectly buffed since Seraph has higher stats then Eos or Selene. Granted, it's not a huge amount. I get from 2500-2800 ticks with Eos and 2600-2900 ticks with Seraph, so it's roughly a 4% increase. She also has a higher spell speed which you can see with her Seraphic Veil (i.e. Embrace) casts which have a faster GCD in addition to the better potency. This is also a 4% reduction in GCD, so I suspect that is how much of a buff her stats give her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansion
Embrace: 150 potency heal, 3 second GCD
Seraphic Veil: 200 potency heal, 200 potency shield, 2.88 second GCD -
08-23-2019, 06:25 AMBillythepancakeI wish seraph had more of an impact. I think shed be better if she weren't locked behind a 120 second CD,but instead was tied to the fairy gauge. Be able to swap to her on the fly, and swap back whenever you want, but while shes out she consumes fairy gauge, and if it hits 0 shes forced back to your other fairy. If they did that then I could understand why her heals wouldn't need to really heal any more than your regular fairy, other than embrace, but they just made her rouse that comes with 2 succors that you have to get out in 15 seconds. Even in savage I'm finding it hard to find places to put out 2 oGCD succors. ._. I gave up miasma, miasma II, bane, and shadow flare for this. Can I trade back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhaeric
-
08-24-2019, 05:08 AMNobleWinter
Using Seraph is so much unnecessary work. I only summon her for the Consolation Shield so why doesn't she automatically cast it when called so I don't have to double weave summoning her and and then shielding the party. Seraph should also use the second Consolation charge automatically when her timer expires. There is no reason you should lose the 2nd cast when she leaves if that is her only purpose for existing. Seraph would be like an Earthly Star that only required summoning to get the full effect over 20 seconds instead of wasting three oGCDs when we have nothing worthwhile to weave in our rotation except a single DoT every 30 seconds. Am I really supposed to use Physick for weaving now? It's a joke but even I don't find it funny.
-
08-24-2019, 06:13 AMMhaericIt's not. /10charQuote:
Originally Posted by NobleWinter
-
08-25-2019, 12:06 AMMartaDemireux
I wish Eos and Selene would determine your abilities with Seraph. Have Eos give Seraph HoTs and Selene give Seraph the shields. It would make teaming with another SCH much more smooth. As it is, if you both use Seraph at the same time, someone is wasting their shields. Having the fairy as your visual queue, it would work the same as AST stances.
-
08-25-2019, 03:17 AMtikiwiki
ghosting was one of the most annoying things on dps and now that seraph introduced it to healers i hate it even more when i press consolation with 4 seconds on her timer and it doesn't go off its incredibly frustrating
-
08-25-2019, 04:10 AMEaMett
I personally think getting an ogcd succor with consolation is enough. The fact that you need to use the stacks back to back, can’t blessing, can’t union, and can’t dissipate also makes it interesting to time correctly.
All in all, I think it’s a good mechanic. I would much rather see some of the bugs fixed (obviously) as I feel that would have a greater impact. -
08-25-2019, 04:32 PMSlopranoI beat myself over the head daily for wishing to the Monkey's Paw it would be fun to have a third fairy to play with. It granted the wish in the only way it know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
A third summonable permanent fairy would be great as another niche addition to the job coming from 3.0. Current rendition of having two charges and mini-adlo I can't manually target for 20s dosen't sit right. Then even went to the lenghts of renaming Embrace, Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination but only the first does something different. As something more to it, it could drain Fey Gauge to increase her healing/shields, of now the Gauge stays at 100 for most fights. I find myself using Physick instead of waiting on Union to trigger. -
08-26-2019, 06:45 PMMansionOh right, those pesky Pet Stats that are already annoying on Summoner apply on Scholar too, thanks for pointing it out! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhaeric
I'd like Seraph to be more gameplay oriented. As EaMett says, Seraph locks us out of some healing resources so it's intersting to figure out how to make the most of this summon and how to time it correctly. -
08-26-2019, 07:08 PMBillythepancakeThe whole "locks us out of abilities" thing might actually be interesting,if the abilities they locked is out of were actually game changing. They lock us out of fey union and fey blessing, neither of which are great. Fey blessing is definitely the better of the two, but honestly, if they removed the fairy gauge from the game entirely, can't say I'd miss it. So that restriction hardly does anything to prevent Seraph from just feeling like rouse, but with 2 succors. Which,even in Savage, has limited uses. Because the amount of places you need 2 succors within 15 seconds of each other is few and far in between. ._.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansion
-
08-27-2019, 01:21 AMGrimGale
Fey gauge needs to be used for more than two weak skills.
I'd say remove CD from seraph and have the summon seraph consume fey gauge per second. -
08-27-2019, 11:14 PMnalol
yeah fey gauge could be way more interesting. right now u feel like u don't really need to use it. I only use union on big pulls .. and on savage.
what annoys me though are those abilities that become more interesting .. or just somewhat interesting only on harder content. which means that when you're there .. u sometimes forgot u had them and need to relearn them :)