Please add something to FFXIV that disables 3rd party software interactions.

It would make botting a lot harder. I wouldn't be sad to see parsing go, either.

The backlash they'd get from axing parsers at this point would be huge.

Also, if people actually want to get around security programs like that, it's really not that difficult. WoW has been constantly plagued by botting issues despite them being among the most persistent about the matter with an active enforcement team and security programs.

They did at least succeed in scaring people into not using their mains to bot due to how real the risk of getting banned is, though. One of the main reasons botting is even as big of an issue there as it is is the lack of quest-gated progression, as you only need to be the right level to access the latest zones, which makes it way easier for people to churn out gathering bots then it is in XIV.

That said, if they actually bothered enforcing the non-RMT bots around here they'd have little issues keeping them in check.

This isn't a parser hate thread disguised as a bot hate thread at all. Not in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

This isn't a parser hate thread disguised as a bot hate threat at all. Not in the slightest.

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Lol.
I wonder if parsing it starting to run rampant with all these post related things about them.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Lol.
I wonder if parsing it starting to run rampant with all these post related things about them.

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The vocal minority of the anti-parser groups flare up every once in a while, especially at the start of new content.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Lol.
I wonder if parsing it starting to run rampant with all these post related things about them.

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Just flavor of the month correlating at times with content. We go from parser debate to healer dps debate to community toxicity debate then to some topic that's completely unrelated to FF14 (that either for weeks or just gets straight up deleted. Shout out to ottergate 2.0) and then the actual discussion about new content and then right back to parser debate.

Seems like the only time people there's fun to be about on the forums is when new msq content gets added to the game. Newcomers arriving smackdab into that would get the impression the game's community is a slice of heaven and so is the game.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The backlash they'd get from axing parsers at this point would be huge.

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You mean people using software that violates the ToS?

Don't think their backlash matters to be honest. They're cheating.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

You mean people using software that violates the ToS?

Don't think their backlash matters to be honest. They're cheating.

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For bot programs? Yes. For parsers? No, Yoshi-P doesn't consider them cheating. He just doesn't like the toxicity they bring, hence the don't ask don't tell stance SE has kept for the past few years. So long as you don't out yourself as using one and use that to harass people you won't get in trouble. Yoshi-P has himself even admitted to watching World First streams for content where parsers are clearly displayed in the video.

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Originally Posted by Enla

For bot programs? Yes. For parsers? No, Yoshi-P doesn't consider them cheating. He just doesn't like the toxicity they bring, hence the don't ask don't tell stance SE has kept for the past few years. So long as you don't out yourself as using one and use that to harass people you won't get in trouble. Yoshi-P has himself even admitted to watching World First streams for content where parsers are clearly displayed in the video.

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Most ppl who parse don't ask and don't tell. They just Kick you.

There is no magical way to stop programs reading and writing memory. It's fact. They could implement something that would stop the current programs, but would only be a matter of days before that is circumvented. It has been and always will be a losing battle. Only way to stop botting is to shut off the servers.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

Most ppl who parse don't ask and don't tell. They just Kick you.

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I'd like to see statistics on that, given that most people I know who parse use it as a personal measuring stick. I've never seen someone kicked for low numbers. I have seen people kicked for constantly failing mechanics and being rude however.

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Originally Posted by Enla

For bot programs? Yes. For parsers? No, Yoshi-P doesn't consider them cheating. He just doesn't like the toxicity they bring, hence the don't ask don't tell stance SE has kept for the past few years. So long as you don't out yourself as using one and use that to harass people you won't get in trouble. Yoshi-P has himself even admitted to watching World First streams for content where parsers are clearly displayed in the video.

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I don't care what Yoshi-P thinks. The ToS is the ToS.

Sure, just disable 3rd party software. Like the ping enhancer I need to play the game.

That's one way to get me to unsub.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

I don't care what Yoshi-P thinks. The ToS is the ToS.

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And SE gets to decide how and when to enforce it.

They know when and how and why parsers are used. They know what the consequences would be if they actively sought out and banned everyone who uses a parser, or found some way to stop them from working for tood. (if such a thing is even possible). And they've decided not to do that.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

I don't care what Yoshi-P thinks. The ToS is the ToS.

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He gets to choose whether to enforce it nor not. Their game, their rules.

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Originally Posted by Zyneste

The vocal minority of the anti-parser groups flare up every once in a while, especially at the start of new content.

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Especially when this tier has pretty decent dps checks (in savage).

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

There is no magical way to stop programs reading and writing memory. It's fact. They could implement something that would stop the current programs, but would only be a matter of days before that is circumvented. It has been and always will be a losing battle. Only way to stop botting is to shut off the servers.

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The RMT bots, maybe, though even they exploit very obvious flaws in the game's design that could be fixed if they actually wanted to.

It takes way too long to level DoL/H bots for them to be difficult to control with a half-way competent enforcement team.

It would also affect those who have graphical mods in the game, which wouldnt be a huge loss, we wouldn't get people posting screenshots of naked Ryne models anymore.
TBF, lots of people post their modded screenshots in the official forums, and they have never gotten in trouble for it, so GMs probably don't care much about it.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

Most ppl who parse don't ask and don't tell. They just Kick you.

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Most people who use parsers don't tell you about it and don't particularly care when you're talking about leveling dungeons which I believe the OP was. Like seriously... I don't care what your Sastasha dps is or your Rabanastre dps for that matter. Your dps matters when there are dps checks you can reasonably fail. So we're talking about current content only, EX trials and savage raids where your dps actually matters. Leveling dungeons? Nobody cares but you.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

It would also affect those who have graphical mods in the game

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Yup I would certainly miss my Re-Shade plugin. The white veil and crappy Anti Aliasing of the base game are so lame. :D

it amuses me how the dps check this tier is pretty high compared to recent tiers, and there's a sudden uptick in the number of anti-parser posts.

the "unwritten rule" regarding ACT has always been "don't be a jerk with it".

I can guarantee you that most of the community's active playerbase uses it. It's invaluable for seeking self-improvement.

As pointed out, there would be outrage if they took actual action against it. The rule against it is there just so they have an actual angle against those that use it to be a jerk.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Yup I would certainly miss my Re-Shade plugin. The white veil and crappy Anti Aliasing of the base game are so lame. :D

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Honestly this is what I would miss most. I get why reshade isn't practical for wider release, since min-specs need to be considered, but sometimes I just want the game to look pretty... :<

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Most people who use parsers don't tell you about it and don't particularly care when you're talking about leveling dungeons which I believe the OP was. Like seriously... I don't care what your Sastasha dps is or your Rabanastre dps for that matter. Your dps matters when there are dps checks you can reasonably fail. So we're talking about current content only, EX trials and savage raids where your dps actually matters. Leveling dungeons? Nobody cares but you.

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Don't forget older farms. Your average Byakko farm party takes around 5:30 minutes for a kill with 5 DPS setup. When 3 of those 5 DPS are level 80 SAMs and suddenly you're hitting the 10 minute mark and the fight is still going I know it's time to abandon ship bc I'm not interested in helping autoattack leechers to get their mounts. Don't even need a parser for that ^^

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Lol.
I wonder if parsing it starting to run rampant with all these post related things about them.

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It's those damn wow players I tell ya! Ruining our great community™.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

This isn't a parser hate thread disguised as a bot hate thread at all. Not in the slightest.

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Nah, I'm a salty omnicrafter.

As for parsing, I just think it gets overused on casual content. I wouldn't mind seeing it implemented on Savage and Ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Lalarrific

As for parsing, I just think it gets overused on casual content.

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Why would anyone even run it during content that does not have an "enrage" timer? There is very little (no) reason to do so.

Sure there is, they want to know how well theyre doing vs the rest of the group.
Same reason pvp displays total damage dealt at the end.
Also with the updated privacy laws that are required for every business just about, adding anti cheat etc at this point would be a very sticky topic for privacy concerns, too many of those collect user data which would be considered illegal under the updated laws. Some of those did it without the game even running. Big problem even if SEs didnt, perception alone would be an issue.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

There is no magical way to stop programs reading and writing memory. It's fact. They could implement something that would stop the current programs, but would only be a matter of days before that is circumvented. It has been and always will be a losing battle. Only way to stop botting is to shut off the servers.

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if os.programs.any? { |prg| prg.is_reading_memory? }
return "stop"
end

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Originally Posted by Oxidized

Why would anyone even run it during content that does not have an "enrage" timer? There is very little (no) reason to do so.

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Trying to learn your rotation for one. I have a friend who came back to the game recently and he was using ACT during his daily Expert runs to see how he was doing and where he needed to improve. It helped actually, and eventually he figured out where he needed to fix his rotation to pull in consistently high numbers. I sometimes ask him to run numbers back to me if we queue together, just so I can have an inkling of how I'm doing during content as well. Last thing I want is to take myself into higher level content on jobs I'm not good at, so it's been helpful to judge if I'm good enough since Stone, Sea, and Sky isn't always very accurate.

As long as you can join 99% of the parties without people checking your score on a website first (like with WoW Mythic+) we are fine I would say.

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Originally Posted by Oxidized

Why would anyone even run it during content that does not have an "enrage" timer? There is very little (no) reason to do so.

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For some AOE skills it'spretty hard to tell how many mobs you are actually hitting (hello Flamethrower). Having an indicator of your DPS going up or down is good to know when too many mobs moved out of the area of effect so it'd be good to cancel the skill an use something else. Just one example ^^

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Originally Posted by RareItems

Most ppl who parse don't ask and don't tell. They just Kick you.

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And if you're kicked without a reason, you can report them for kicking you.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

And if you're kicked without a reason, you can report them for kicking you.

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Not from a PF group. Their group, their rules.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

if os.programs.any? { |prg| prg.is_reading_memory? }
return "stop"
end

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You clearly know absolutely nothing about computer programming. Final Fantasy 14 runs without administrative privileges, and therefore it can't even query the list of programs that run with administrative privileges, let alone knowing if its memory is being read. And even if it ran with administrative privileges, bots can run using SYSTEM privileges.

Parsers don't even work using memory reading, they read network packets, which FFXIV has no way to detect since it is a passive process.

And even if they managed to solve all of that, you can simply run FFXIV in a sandbox and interact with it from outside. Keep in mind that at this point it would already be acting much like a virus does, violating the european GDPR and also possibly causing virus scanners to (rightfully) detect it as spyware.

If it were a simple problem to solve, it would've been solved a decade ago.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Just flavor of the month correlating at times with content. We go from parser debate to healer dps debate to community toxicity debate then to some topic that's completely unrelated to FF14 (that either for weeks or just gets straight up deleted. Shout out to ottergate 2.0) and then the actual discussion about new content and then right back to parser debate.

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where does the genderlock debate fit into this? :^)

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

And if you're kicked without a reason, you can report them for kicking you.

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You can, but SE won't do a darned thing about it. In PF it's their party their rules. In DF, being kicked without a reason, it's just taken under the assumption of "Difference in Playstyle" which IS a valid reason to kick (GMs have confirmed this several times in the past, even though the option isn't listed in the vote dismiss window). It's only if they actually harass you or tell you your DPS/admit to parsing before kicking you that your report will have any credence.

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Originally Posted by villadelfia

You clearly know absolutely nothing about computer programming. Final Fantasy 14 runs without administrative privileges, and therefore it can't even query the list of programs that run with administrative privileges, let alone knowing if its memory is being read. And even if it ran with administrative privileges, bots can run using SYSTEM privileges.

Parsers don't even work using memory reading, they read network packets, which FFXIV has no way to detect since it is a passive process.

And even if they managed to solve all of that, you can simply run FFXIV in a sandbox and interact with it from outside. Keep in mind that at this point it would already be acting much like a virus does, violating the european GDPR and also possibly causing virus scanners to (rightfully) detect it as spyware.

If it were a simple problem to solve, it would've been solved a decade ago.

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Ok, I've done software development, but even this is new to me. So I appreciate the learning experience.

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Originally Posted by villadelfia

You clearly know absolutely nothing about computer programming. Final Fantasy 14 runs without administrative privileges, and therefore it can't even query the list of programs that run with administrative privileges, let alone knowing if its memory is being read. And even if it ran with administrative privileges, bots can run using SYSTEM privileges.

Parsers don't even work using memory reading, they read network packets, which FFXIV has no way to detect since it is a passive process.

And even if they managed to solve all of that, you can simply run FFXIV in a sandbox and interact with it from outside. Keep in mind that at this point it would already be acting much like a virus does, violating the european GDPR and also possibly causing virus scanners to (rightfully) detect it as spyware.

If it were a simple problem to solve, it would've been solved a decade ago.

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I've worked on PlanetSide 2 and DCUO
But yes I clearly know nothing about programming.
You're not familiar with the concept of Sarcasm I take it?

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

You're not familiar with the concept of Sarcasm I take it?

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Sarcasm doesn't translate well over text. And the way you phrased it, didn't give us any indication you were being sarcastic. Then factor in things like autism, which changes the way we process social situations, and you can understand why it would have been taken seriously.

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Originally Posted by Lalarrific

It would make botting a lot harder. I wouldn't be sad to see parsing go, either.

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It wouldn't stop botters it would be just a speed bump

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

And if you're kicked without a reason, you can report them for kicking you.

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How? Are you guilty for initiating the vote? Are you also guilty for voting yes? How do you prove that there wasn't a reason?

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

There is no magical way to stop programs reading and writing memory. It's fact. They could implement something that would stop the current programs, but would only be a matter of days before that is circumvented. It has been and always will be a losing battle. Only way to stop botting is to shut off the servers.

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They don't need to create any programs or do anything to actively try and block bots, third party scripts or anything. all they need to do is be visibly active in punishing there use.

The problem is and has been for the longest time no action is ever taken. You can see a low level rmt player in Limsa at the market board putting out rmt messages every 60 seconds. and you can press that magic "report rmt activity" button and nothing happens. you can go back to that market board hours later and they're still there.......

Same is true with gathering bots... can report them and then go out to hit some nodes days later and again those same bots are still there..

the reason the problem is so bad is because "nothing ever happens so why not???"

If you had 100,000 people using bots and SE went out and banned 1,000 accounts for botting this week. you might think that doesn't fix anything.
If they went and banned another 1,000 botters next week. you might still think its still no real difference
it they went out and banned 1000 more the week after. and another 1000 the week after that and so on... then players would soon start to take notice and you'd probably find a couple of weeks after that botting activity will have declined drastically with players not wanting to find themselves in the next 1000 to go the following week.

They might have banned 6 or 7 thousand people over those few weeks but you could bet they've stopped a lot more than that as a result.

An actual risk of being banned would be a very strong deterrant for most players. but as it stands it's just a laughable joke