Why is Dragonsight still a thing?

I was thinking, how come Dragon-sights functionality is so clunky?

I've tried many different things to try solving its chunkiness, would it be possible for it to be able to dragon-sight someone out of range while still using it on yourself?

it's kinda sad that it requires a target, sure you can use it on yourself but then you lose out on the targeted buff it provides.

I'd just like for it to have a radius for the tether and a cast range that is separated instead of treating them as the same thing.

I have experimented with lot's of different macros for this ability and i have the same problem every time, I can either make it target the nearest person no matter what which will in fact give me the buff if Every-one is to far, or i can make it only target the DPS but will not trigger if they are all to far away.

I'd seriously much rather them just do something else with this ability, they are better off putting power surge back in, or making dragon-sight only effect yourself in favor of buffing battle litany.

The problem is no perfect macro exists for this.

Macros I've tried :

/macrolock on
/target <2>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/target <2>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/macroicon "Dragon Sight"
/macroerror off

/macroerror off
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/macroicon "Dragon Sight"

/macroerror off
/macrolock on
/target <2>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/targetpc
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/macroicon "Dragon Sight"




/macroerror off
/macrolock on
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <3>
/action "Dragon Sight" <3>
/action "Dragon Sight" <3>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <1>
/action "Dragon Sight" <1>
/macroicon "Dragon Sight"


/macrolock on
/target <2>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/target <3>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/target <4>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/target <2>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/target <1>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy
/macroicon "Dragon Sight"
/macroerror off


Also i play on controller so <mo> isn't an option

As far as I'm aware, Dragon Sight no longer technically requires a target; you can activate it and only buff yourself if you wish. The downside being that you lose out on giving someone else extra damage, which in itself is an overall DPS loss. Bearing that in mind, the option is still there if you deem it absolutely necessary, but ideally this should only be during solo content.

they could easily fix this if they added a radius to the buff, since the way it works now you can only activate it if the other person is in range.

It feels clunky because you’re using a macro.
Macros were specifically designed not to be great in battle.

I don't think Pressing Circle + Down + Right Trigger + Button + Circle + X is going to be any faster.

Have no issues myself using it on controller. Probably just takes a bit of practice and finding the right spot on your hotbar to put it, similar thing with Cover as well, possibly a few other actions.

To elaborate on what Canadane is saying, macros do have a history of limited responsiveness. You may find at times that the macro takes a bit too long to work, or sometimes it'll fail to work at all depending on ping and other factors. Soft-targeting is often more reliable than using macros, once you've gotten the practice in.

I'm aware of all of this already. But thanks though.

I thought there was another macro that someone had posted that was something like


/ac dragon sight <t>
/ac " " <6>
/ac "" <7>
" " <8>
" " <2>
" " <3>
<4>
<5>

Something like that which cycles through all the possible targets. I don't know if it would work any better or not, though, haven't tried it personally. Our drg uses <mo> so that doesn't help. I didn't have too much issue with macro when I played drg at 70, worst case I just moved the person I wanted to buff to 2 in the party list so I could double tap Down select them relatively quickly. Only real issue (aside from the technical step of getting used to that) is that it's basically impossible to double-weave anything. But you can't really double-weave with macro either, so.

I posted one above like that since my party list is sorted differently you can double weave it still it just doesn't queue so you have to use dragonsight last in the double weave.

The Op is about why dragon sight is a thing. Not about the macros they could perfectly change it without effecting balance if they just buff litany to compensate. They could even make it give the dragoon an eye stack so they can burst open with Norstrad there wasn't any reason to the ability since power surge was better it's just pointless added complexity.

I'm not having any issues using dragonsight in a macro with double weave since your forced to clip jump with life surge later in the combo to insure a blood for blood full thrust. Unless you have 2.5gcd.

I'm curious why when someone's dead and you use it on them it only gives it to yourself but if someone's still alive and they are out of range it doesn't. How come it doesn't just use it even if they are out of range and then give it to them when they go into range by making it a single target with a radius. Perhaps it's a limitation to the radius ability's but knowing how clunky it is. I understand it's extra engine work so it's like why even make the decision to implement it.

The reasoning behind it is to decrease dragoons personal damage compared to power surge and give them more rdps.

I'd like to see 2 things done to dragonsight. 1, select a target who will always get dragonsight when you cast the ability (similar to dancers) and 2, increase the range of dragonsight to, like, 25 yalms, so that it's friendlier to use with black mages and just DPS who don't know how to stack up in general.

Dragonsight is largely fine, it just needs some QoL buffs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renkei

I don't think Pressing Circle + Down + Right Trigger + Button + Circle + X is going to be any faster.

---

You'd be surprised. Considering you can manage to do that within the GCD, the skill will queue properly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taranok

I'd like to see 2 things done to dragonsight. 1, select a target who will always get dragonsight when you cast the ability (similar to dancers) and 2, increase the range of dragonsight to, like, 25 yalms, so that it's friendlier to use with black mages and just DPS who don't know how to stack up in general.

Dragonsight is largely fine, it just needs some QoL buffs.

---

I'm going to be the person that goes negative.

We don't need a larger radius. 15 yalms is plenty, and if a dps is out of range of tether, they're probably out of range of most aoe heals. I've played with plenty of blm's who were able to be within 15 yalms and be the turret SE meant them to be. I'll tether a tank or healer over the blm in the corner making the whm decide if they want to let them die or if they should start gcd healing.

I'd also prefer to not have a set tether partner. Nin is a good choice for opening burst, but would I choose to tether them the rest of the fight? No, I'm going to swap between the mnk/sam/brd/etc. If the blm just died and has weakness am I tethering them or swapping to the mch? I'd rather it was not an auto-use. Do I want to stop and manage whatever this new ability SE would give me to auto-set who the tether partner is mid fight whenever I needed to change it? No. It sounds like a hassle and like I'd be frantically clicking the party list when people screwed up to adjust next tether.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imbrium

I'm going to be the person that goes negative.

We don't need a larger radius. 15 yalms is plenty, and if a dps is out of range of tether, they're probably out of range of most aoe heals. I've played with plenty of blm's who were able to be within 15 yalms and be the turret SE meant them to be. I'll tether a tank or healer over the blm in the corner making the whm decide if they want to let them die or if they should start gcd healing.

I'd also prefer to not have a set tether partner. Nin is a good choice for opening burst, but would I choose to tether them the rest of the fight? No, I'm going to swap between the mnk/sam/brd/etc. If the blm just died and has weakness am I tethering them or swapping to the mch? I'd rather it was not an auto-use. Do I want to stop and manage whatever this new ability SE would give me to auto-set who the tether partner is mid fight whenever I needed to change it? No. It sounds like a hassle and like I'd be frantically clicking the party list when people screwed up to adjust next tether.

---

There are numerous mechanics that force people further apart than 15 yalms through no fault of anyone involved, a BLM can be within 15 yalms of the healer but not of the dragoon just due to how the party positions unless you're doing absolutely tight groups, which isn't always advantageous to the BLM to stack up in, and this isn't even accounting for a lazy BLM in the corner. Hell, you technically can have a BLM 30 yalms away from the dragoon but still in range of healing with proper healing placement, and fights might legitimately make this the desirable outcome.

As for selecting a target in advance, I'd just make it so it wasn't a toggle off toggle on mechanic to change it like dance partner is, it would purely exist as an aid to make it easier to target someone mid-battle without resorting to macros, especially if you want to target one person specifically. It would make it slightly clunkier if you want to swap it around (much more than slight if you have to cycle it), but if you target one person specifically it will be better overall.

And saying you want to change targets because people die is fine, but you shouldn't design job mechanics around people dying when the current iteration is already cumbersome. You want to ease the system not keep it bad.

I think Dragon Sight should work like Dance Partner does. You turn it on at the beginning of a fight and it stays on the whole fight reguardless of how far away you are from the person. No need for a red teather effect either.

I don't really have issues with it. except when people are not in range or i DC and my pary list gets messed up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taranok

There are numerous mechanics that force people further apart than 15 yalms through no fault of anyone involved, a BLM can be within 15 yalms of the healer but not of the dragoon just due to how the party positions unless you're doing absolutely tight groups, which isn't always advantageous to the BLM to stack up in, and this isn't even accounting for a lazy BLM in the corner. Hell, you technically can have a BLM 30 yalms away from the dragoon but still in range of healing with proper healing placement, and fights might legitimately make this the desirable outcome.

As for selecting a target in advance, I'd just make it so it wasn't a toggle off toggle on mechanic to change it like dance partner is, it would purely exist as an aid to make it easier to target someone mid-battle without resorting to macros, especially if you want to target one person specifically. It would make it slightly clunkier if you want to swap it around (much more than slight if you have to cycle it), but if you target one person specifically it will be better overall.

---

Snipped a little

I've already said I've had blm's that stayed within 15 yalms and were the turret SE meant them to be, that was mechanics and all. That lazy blm in the corner you mentioned? Yeah if they can't be bothered to move closer forget them. Dragonsight was originally what, 5 yalms? 7? It was meant for our melee partner and SE gave us 15 for everyone. I do not want to up this to 25 to reward the bad/lazy ranged. Groups don't need to be in the boonies.

If we're spreading for mechanics there's a decent chance you, as the melee are missing a bit of uptime and want to wait a moment to pop eye anyway. Fights this tier have been pretty buff friendly. I'm failing to think of ones so far in 5.0 where I've been spread out and sitting on eyes, even E2S was pretty drg friendly.

I want to tether whichever dps I think is doing well that moment. Is the mch bursting? Did the brd just pot? It's not just death.

Macro macro macro. I do not use them, I just pick my target from the list and click. So I think I'm having trouble understanding this clunkiness and pain you guys are talking about. SE didn't really design macros for battle tmk, so of course they're going to be clunky. Even trying to get a text macro on divine veil makes the ability a pain. I don't think SE should design an ability around being able to macro it. You want another button to swap perma- partners at any time, that's STILL another button for tether management. Dancer is a sustained buff through the fight, sight is every 2 minutes. Edit: If it was an optional use I'd be fine with it, but not enforced.

They could give sight the ability to be assigned to a partner outside the 15 yalm radius, as the other person is coming in. I'd be fine with .5 seconds of lost left eye, but not permanent set partner.

The ability can still be weaved since only the first ability can be queued at 1.25gcd so any ability used second In a double weave executes without queue. There exists a macro for targeting nearest target with it but sometimes it can be a pain. It's more of an issue for players who use controllers with keyboard and mouse you can click tab. Dragon sight is also one of the shorter animation softlock abilities. You can't queue abilities when double weaving. Any ability used after 51% of the gcd isn't queued it'd not the queuing that's the issue with it.

It should still select a target even if they are out of range and buff you alone if they aren't it does that when the selected target is dead why doesn't it also do it when they are out of range? There was no reason for them to really replace power surge with this ability besides the fact that it shared icons with life surge practically.

Id just like to see it get a minor change to it that makes it proc even when a target is outta range. Just like how it's invisibly tethered to them while they leave the range how come it doesn't just behave like that all the time?

This is the macro i use for it. It casts on your target if there is one, otherwise whatever your mouse is hovering over. Bit hard to use at times but at the very least you can tag the tank if the other dps is busy being wild and free. You can add a <tt> line below the mo one if you just want to default to the tank if none of the other options are viable.

micon "Dragon Sight"
macroerror off
ac "Dragon Sight" <t>
ac "Dragon Sight" <mo>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

It feels clunky because you’re using a macro.
Macros were specifically designed not to be great in battle.

---

No, it's just plain clunky. (though yeah, the macro doesn't help)

If you are mid rotation, target the other dps and then use the skill, if the other dps is out the range not only does the skill fail to activate, but your targeting reticle remains on your party member instead of switching back to the mob. So if you don't notice right away and try to continue with your rotation then your attacks fail to activate and your rotation lags behind.

It's nice that it doesn't require a target anymore, but the OP has the right idea. If it is going to continue to work as-is, then they either need to increase the ACTIVATION range but NOT the tether, OR they need to allow the skill to activate solo if the target is out of range.

This skill is one reason I abandoned my DRG main during SB.

Any skill that requires you to select a party member or use a ground targeted AoE is hell on Controller. I'm currently playing DRG and thanks to the fact macros tend to not work I have a habit of just using Dragon Sight as a personal buff. On a controller you have to hit Down on the d-pad at least twice just to select the person under you, then hold L2 or R2 and use your ability. It's a lot to do in between rotations especially with all the oGCDs DRG has. And if the person is out of range like the person above said Dragon Sight doesn't just activate for you and your cursor change back to the enemy you are fighting. You have to hope you notice it didn't activate then quickly hit circle to go back to fighting the mob. It is a very annoying skill to use.

Would it be all that bad if it just auto-linked to your nearest party member, which would likely be another melee. If there are only ranged it would likely link to the tank, but you could easily fix that with a shoutout or an Elusive Jump prior to using it, and then jumping back in to the target.

Personally I prefer:

/macroicon "Dragon Sight"
/action "Dragon Sight" <t>
/action "Dragon Sight" <f>
/action "Dragon Sight"

So it goes on my focus target by default but otherwise just works normally.

FFXIV desperately needs a dual target system though, so you can have a friendly and enemy target at the same time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renkei

I don't think Pressing Circle + Down + Right Trigger + Button + Circle + X is going to be any faster.

---

You could move your party list so the tank/melee dps is below you then just press
1. Down
2. Down
3. Dragon Sight.

It sounds like youre not using the soft target system

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

You could move your party list so the tank/melee dps is below you then just press
1. Down
2. Down
3. Dragon Sight.

It sounds like youre not using the soft target system

---

The problem arrives if your target is out of range. MCH is very strong right now, so if you try and use it on the MCH and they are out of range, your "soft target" remains on the MCH when the skill fails to activate instead of resolving back to the mob if the skill activates properly.

You could always just use it solo or on a tank, but your not getting the most of the skill then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

You could move your party list so the tank/melee dps is below you then just press
1. Down
2. Down
3. Dragon Sight.

It sounds like youre not using the soft target system

---

Soft Target System doesn't revert to last target if the target is out of range, It uses Dragon-sight on yourself and forces you to Manually select the target.
It's much better to use this macro

/macrolock on
/target <2>
/action "Dragon Sight"
/action "Dragon Sight"
/targetlastenemy

The Soft Target System doesn't work for targeting last enemy when the target of a targeted spell is out of range.
What i was implying was that it should still revert your target back even when target is out of range, or tether them even if they are out of range, and not give them the buff until they go inside the radius.