My Feedback on Healer Downtime

I've posted in many complaint threads, but yet to make my own with suggestions. I feel the ultimate issue at the moment is that healers can be boring and this is due to a lack of downtime. Playing both SCH and AST, I gravitate to ASTbecause it has more to do, that it is not to downplay any AST issues. Thinking on it:

• Tank gets better at their job, they've more to do
• DPS gets better at the job, they've more to do
• Healer gets better at their job, they've less to do

There's the debate on healers DPSing, but I've seen the main reason people like DPSing on healers is because it gives them something to do.

Then give them something else to do in their downtime. I get downtime is there so it's more approachable to the inexperienced and the difficulty spike is at the high end.

My suggestion then is. Improve AST's card system and give something new to SCH and WHM to do with their own systems of buffs/debuffs.

Then give WHM and SCH systems of their own. Be it to buff, to debuff or a bit of both.


For a bit of flavour I've come up with some ideas, but they are only a flavour for this train of thought. I don't expect people to cheer and go "yay" good ideas, but an idea of how changing it up could be more fun & useful, whilst reducing the need for healer DPS, giving more experienced healers to do in their downtime & still offering some benefit to less experienced healers.

SCH:
Aether Glyphs: Your faerie shouts a glyph. You match it. These glyphs grant your faerie the power to perform certain debuffs. You can think of this system as a hybrid of what DNC and SAM have, whack a mole, but you how many you have changes the outcome. 1 Glyph = Blind, 2 Glyphs = Damage Dealt Down, 3 Glyphs = Vulnerability. These are all cast from the faerie. These would need to be done in a way that's still beneficial, as I recall the blind effect from Ruin II wasn't brilliant when it had it.


In this example, I see an inexperienced healer trying for a Blind because it'll help damage mitigation and then see somebody needs a heal or a mechanic they're unfamiliar with and continue healing.

I also see a less experienced healer sensing their improvement in skill the more they're able to make use of Gylphs. For levelling's sake, start with 1 glyph and learn more (like with NIN & Mudras).

WHM:
Elemental Seals. Lilies can be spent to form an elemental seal. WHM's derives from CNJ, so it'd make sense to exploit the 3 elements they use: Air, Water and Earth. The White Mage can choose a combination of seals. Each seal has a benefit. The final skill executed could be called 'Brave'. Air could be a speed boost, Water could be a damage boost, Earth could be damage mitigation. You'd have the ability to combo up to 3 of these. You can stack the effects of the same type, but with a cap to still encourage a mix & match.

With less experienced healers, I see a similar experience to my SCH suggestion. Just with potency.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

SCH:
Aether Glyphs: Your faerie shouts a glyph. You match it. These glyphs grant your faerie the power to perform certain debuffs. You can think of this system as a hybrid of what DNC and SAM have, whack a mole, but you how many you have changes the outcome. 1 Glyph = Blind, 2 Glyphs = Damage Dealt Down, 3 Glyphs = Vulnerability. These are all cast from the faerie. These would need to be done in a way that's still beneficial, as I recall the blind effect from Ruin II wasn't brilliant when it had it.


In this example, I see an inexperienced healer trying for a Blind because it'll help damage mitigation and then see somebody needs a heal or a mechanic they're unfamiliar with and continue healing.

I also see a less experienced healer sensing their improvement in skill the more they're able to make use of Gylphs. For levelling's sake, start with 1 glyph and learn more (like with NIN & Mudras).

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If you want NIN stuff, play NIN. I don't want my SCH to be the new Trick Attack.

I’m all for all the healers having more interesting stuff to do during downtime, but I don’t see why there shouldn’t be at least one healer with a more finicky set of personal dps moves. The most obvious choice would be SCH because they have dps moves to be restored, but another good choice could be WHM. If SE wants them to be the selfish healer it’d be nice if they had a more fun way of delivering that damage, and through that more of a way to distinguish the great healers from the good ones. Also, it would keep WHM from stepping on AST’s toes as the buff healer.

I’m not a big fan of the glyph idea as you lay it out, just because I don’t find that system particularly interesting on DNC. I’ll try to think of some good alternatives to post here.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

If you want NIN stuff, play NIN. I don't want my SCH to be the new Trick Attack.

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Like I said, a flavour on the train of thought, as opposed to "this is exactly how I want SCH to play" but a simple way of demonstrating how a system could be put in place that could make downtime more interesting.

I suspect strongly there are people who could put out better ideas for how such a system could work. Hence my: "but they are only a flavour for this train of thought. I don't expect people to cheer and go "yay" good ideas,"

Personally, I am not too bothered as long as it's enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

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I've been saying it elsewhere for the longest time, but I'm bringing it to the forums now:

Healers, at their core, are broken.

You encapsulated the problem really well, but I'd like to expand on it some more.

Basically, Healer is the only role where more is often less. If the party is all at full HP, then any more healing you do has no effect other than to use up some of your MP.

No other role has this. DPS obviously want to be putting out as much DPS as possible, a few exceptions aside (such as Leviathan's instant-wipe if you hit him too hard), and Tanks generate enmity (and in the case of PLD and DRK, resources that can be used defensively) by doing damage, with no penalty for generating too much enmity and therefore it simply resolving into 'do as much damage as possible and you'll passively keep aggro.'

And this, I think, is the crux of the problem. What do you do when there's no more healing to be done? Well, the developers' answer to this question seems to be a reluctant "You could DPS a little, I guess..."

They seem to see the role's title as prescriptive. Healers must heal, anything else 'isn't their job' and so mustn't be encouraged and must be limited as strictly as possible. Buffing allies? Debuffing enemies? Dealing damage? None of these things are healing and therefore, their logic dictates, are not what the role is for.

This backs the developers into a corner. How can you make healing in and of itself fun and engaging? You need to give it depth. How do you make it deep? By making it in a similar vein to DPS' rotations... But then we run into a brick wall - The encounter design. To allow for a healing rotation, you need there to always be healing to do, with more always being good.

The issue is twofold: 1) More healing isn't always a good thing (such as when everyone at 100% HP), and 2) The encounter design means that there's often points where there's no healing necessary.

Obviously the developers don't want to have to go back and rework every single significant encounter in the game and so this means they cannot make healing rotations, which means they cannot make the act of healing as deep as the act of DPSing, and therefore it cannot be as fun.

The answer I would propose, then, is to move away from the role of "Healer" and into the role of "Support". This is far more open in terms of possibilities while fulfilling much the same party niche.

At the end of the day though, the one thing I want everyone to take away from this is that the core problem with the Healer role is that they are only 'Healers', while Tanks and DPS either have other things to do to engage them, or their primary focus is deep enough that it is inherently engaging.

Here's some examples of the way I think each class could be taken if the classes stop focussing so exclusively on restoring HP and instead broaden out into supporting a party.

White Mages could gain spells like Bravery and Faith, which could add a certain amount of damage to allies' attacks. Rather than spamming Stone or Glare at an enemy for the majority of the fight, why not apply +50 potency to the next X number of attacks an ally makes, and focus on keeping that up on as many allies as possible? That feels far more 'White Mage' to me, while coming out in the same result - The player is doing a thing that is always useful (in this case, adding to the party's DPS output, just by adding bonuses to allies rather than doing it directly).

Scholars could focus on crippling the enemy and being proactive. Give them a wide range of DoTs and other status effects to apply, and have them veer into the 'Green Mage' sort of direction Arcanist was originally taking them, while putting most of their healing potential on their fairy companion. Scholars could have a limit on the number of status effects an enemy is susceptible to from them, and therefore have to plan ahead (or make good use of skills to manipulate the effects) to ensure the enemy is suffering the right diseases at the right time to weaken them, damage them, and slowly spell out their demise. Meanwhile, the Scholar could have direct control of their fairy. It could draw MP from the Scholar to use on healing as it does already in the lore, but make that a gameplay mechanic for the player to interact with. By effectively controlling both their own character and commanding their partner, the Scholar would excel at exploiting the enemy's weaknesses, but compared to White Mage would lack party enhancements and would have a more-difficult time in meeting the healing demands, as their toolkit would be somewhat smaller and less direct.

Finally, Astrologians would be able to not just buff their allies or debuff their enemies, but manipulate those buffs and debuffs - and not just their own, they would be able to control others' buffs and debuffs. Astrologian could focus on the 'Time Mage' aspects they have lost recently, as well as their lore's focus on reading and manipulating fate. Where a White Mage might remove a detrimental status effect from an ally or a Scholar would prevent it being applied by studying the fight and preventing the enemy from applying it, the Astrologian could take the status effect and twist fate to apply it to themselves, another ally, or even an enemy. Their healing kit could be focussed on Heal-over-Time effects, which they could similarly control and exploit. Though they would lack the ability to brute-force a situation the way a White Mage could, or the Scholar's ability to effectively multitask, they could speed up, slow down, move around, focus, spread, and otherwise manipulate these effects to ensure victory.

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Originally Posted by Tweets

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I think you've put it a lot more eloquently and I think your comments are absolutely spot on. Your comments on Scholar I think would definitely suit me, because one of the things I've lamented in my posts in other threads is that 2.0 SCH for me was the best SCH, one of the things it lost was its ability to cripple the enemy (albeit, it was not amazingly effective, but I'd have prefered to see them improve it rather than remove it). I would like SCH to do more DoT's and status effects again. I figure SE's path has been to more away from that. If they could set themselves back on the design of 2.0 and evolve from it, then fantastic, heck I even miss how Cleric Stance worked. It seems one of the things SE has set to do is simplify the role, which whilst I don't want them to do it, I want them to at least give us something to replace it.

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but compared to White Mage would lack party enhancements and would have a more-difficult time in meeting the healing demands, as their toolkit would be somewhat smaller and less direct.

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This was another aspect of 2.0 SCH I liked. I felt back then the reason SCH got decent DoT's was because it was spending more timing keeping up with healing demands. But it meant it was fun weaving the DoTs whilst keeping people alive. Nowadays the amount of times I have to cast Art of War or Broil before I need to hit a heal button is kinda crazy.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

WHM's derives from CNJ, so it'd make sense to exploit the 3 elements they use: Air, Water and Earth.

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The Aeros are gone, Stone is gone, and Fluid Aura...

...I never got to know the real Fluid Aura....

The "debuff scholar" is something I could get behind too.

I don't want a DPS rotation or even a healing rotation for healers, because I just hate rotation-style mechanics in games generally. I don't want to cast spells based on what spells I've been casting; I want to cast them based on the situation I'm in.

But I felt like Stormblood scholar achieved this pretty well. You had a fair number of DPS skills, but they were mostly used in a given situation (like "big trash pack" or "start of boss fight") rather than at a given point in a sequence.

Debuff scholar sounds like it would be similar. I also like the green mage angle, since I feel like scholar has been going too techy in its themes lately, with those Allagan-looking biolysis and broil 3 animations.

These are some good points I wish Yoshi would address. Lack of any mentions of healer changes in the last LL while at the same time stating that three dps classes are their main balance focus lets me think that they've already given up this expansion and are waiting for 6.0 to maybe do something. All healers are in a terrible spot gameplay wise. Reactive gameplay will never be engaging, because it can't be balanced around top players having fun - this would make most people unable to complete any content because they would need a top tier healer in their group. And yet 90% of healer abilities are for healing, when we can't do that all we're left with is spamming that one attack button. All healers need a massive do over on the scale of MCH changes and I prey they don't wait around for next expansion to do that. Pressing one button for 15 minutes is not fun. I've pretty much already given up on being a healer in ShB after being one since 1.0.

Just want to chime in. Based on casts for about 20 randomly selected scholars in the tug op 100 on ff logs. They heal about 30% of casts and the rest was basically broil and ruin 2 with a few dots mixed in. Wow what engaging gameplay. Oh and energy drain was used around 15 times on average

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Originally Posted by Canubirt

Just want to chime in. Based on casts for about 20 randomly selected scholars in the tug op 100 on ff logs. They heal about 30% of casts and the rest was basically broil and ruin 2 with a few dots mixed in. Wow what engaging gameplay. Oh and energy drain was used around 15 times on average

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which fight was this on and i assume because its the cast metric thats including ogcds nad its not just damage gcds vs healing gcds

Was mainly looking at eden prime as im still working on it.