Viera's get their own hairstyles?...

So we can't use lightning hair and other hair we have to unlock?....sorry I find that pretty unfair.
I'm ok with not getting the legacy hair but hair we have to unlock/or buy? that's not fair to us viera.

I'm baffled as to why they seem to have issues with Viera and hairstyles and hats.
It's not like their head is oddly shaped or anything.
Starting to feel like adding Viera was a bigger problem than they thought lol.

I don't think it's an issue of can't, but rather an issue of want. They probably always were working on these as limited, were content with them being limited, and never expected them to ever be 'complete'; planned the new races out this way, i.e. work on more unique hairs later when we have time. I can see issues with Viera and helmets, but keep in mind, and I posted this in the other thread, Au Ra were added via an expac, gigantic horns poking out of the sides of their heads and they just clip right through the helmet. Right through. They also have access to all hairstyles.

They should have just not added them until they could have been actually finished, as a full race. I guess that would have clashed with marketing though.

I think the argument with this is that they can say, when you bought the hair it was working as intended - every race worked with that hair at the current time of purchase. But then this brings up an issue if you're already a Viera and then go to order the hair from the mogstation - there should be a pop up saying that the character can't currently use this hair.

Can anyone confirm if it does this already? Because it should.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

I'm baffled as to why they seem to have issues with Viera and hairstyles and hats.
It's not like their head is oddly shaped or anything.
Starting to feel like adding Viera was a bigger problem than they thought lol.

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I understand the problem with hats. For a start the earholes can't be in the same place as they are for miqos so they can't just reuse those hat models. Secondly miqo ears are completely hidden in a lot of hats because their ears are small enough to be tucked in. For example in a hat shaped like a cowboy hat you rarely see miqo ears. Viera ears are far larger and stiffer. It's just not very believable to have them tucked into a hat. On top of that they would look downright stupid poking out of the top of many hats. I wager that for hrothgar it's far easier to adjust hats and make them look good because their ears are so tiny.

However the hairstyles puzzle me. Only a handful of those accessible by all races would be unsuitable for viera. The rest is mostly a case of adjusting the tufts where the ear meets the hair on the head, which is how it is done with miqos. I cannot fathom why they are against doing this. Creating completely new hairstyles is far more work than adjusting existing styles.

An argument can be made for hrothgar having a different shaped skull and being the only race with a hunched posture which could make some hairstyles look weird or clip badly. But viera's headshape is very standard and so is their posture. What's the problem?

And then there's the hilariously bad decision to lock hrothgar hairstyles to faces.

I don't understand SE sometimes. This whole hairstyle situation with the new races is baffling.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

I think the argument with this is that they can say, when you bought the hair it was working as intended - every race worked with that hair at the current time of purchase. But then this brings up an issue if you're already a Viera and then go to order the hair from the mogstation - there should be a pop up saying that the character can't currently use this hair.

Can anyone confirm if it does this already? Because it should.

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Mogstation give warnings like "can only be used once per character", but there are no warnings that the hair specifically is not usable by viera. It should definitely be an added warning on the store page, among others.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I understand the problem with hats. For a start the earholes can't be in the same place as they are for miqos so they can't just reuse those hat models. Secondly miqo ears are completely hidden in a lot of hats because their ears are small enough to be tucked in. For example in a hat shaped like a cowboy hat you rarely see miqo ears. Viera ears are far larger and stiffer. It's just not very believable to have them tucked into a hat. On top of that they would look downright stupid poking out of the top of many hats. I wager that for hrothgar it's far easier to adjust hats and make them look good because their ears are so tiny.

However the hairstyles puzzle me. Only a handful of those accessible by all races would be unsuitable for viera. The rest is mostly a case of adjusting the tufts where the ear meets the hair on the head, which is how it is done with miqos. I cannot fathom why they are against doing this. Creating completely new hairstyles is far more work than adjusting existing styles.

An argument can be made for hrothgar having a different shaped skull and being the only race with a hunched posture which could make some hairstyles look weird or clip badly. But viera's headshape is very standard and so is their posture. What's the problem?

And then there's the hilariously bad decision to lock hrothgar hairstyles to faces.

I don't understand SE sometimes. This whole hairstyle situation with the new races is baffling.

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Like, headgear okay, I can see arguments there. Hairstyles? For viera? Not so much. I think ears are lower to the head than miqo'te*, so would maybe would require more adjustments than miqo'te, but I just don't see it. They are choosing not to do it. Definitely you'd think it would take more work to create new, unique hairs. That would only be for one race and gender by the way, instead of creating hair that everyone could use.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I understand the problem with hats. For a start the earholes can't be in the same place as they are for miqos so they can't just reuse those hat models. Secondly miqo ears are completely hidden in a lot of hats because their ears are small enough to be tucked in. For example in a hat shaped like a cowboy hat you rarely see miqo ears. Viera ears are far larger and stiffer. It's just not very believable to have them tucked into a hat. On top of that they would look downright stupid poking out of the top of many hats. I wager that for hrothgar it's far easier to adjust hats and make them look good because their ears are so tiny.

However the hairstyles puzzle me. Only a handful of those accessible by all races would be unsuitable for viera. The rest is mostly a case of adjusting the tufts where the ear meets the hair on the head, which is how it is done with miqos. I cannot fathom why they are against doing this. Creating completely new hairstyles is far more work than adjusting existing styles.

An argument can be made for hrothgar having a different shaped skull and being the only race with a hunched posture which could make some hairstyles look weird or clip badly. But viera's headshape is very standard and so is their posture. What's the problem?

And then there's the hilariously bad decision to lock hrothgar hairstyles to faces.

I don't understand SE sometimes. This whole hairstyle situation with the new races is baffling.

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I can get with you on the amounts of headgear they would have to alter but at least let them where some AF's
hats and stuff. You can't wear some of them and it's sad.

The whole hairstyle situation just puts things in whole new perspective.
Like Christ, how are you having a hard time with pre-existing hairstyles?
This is a mess.

miqo'te will continue to be the master race

As much as I really love Viera, sadly I'll be going back to Miqo'te now. Finding out that I'll never be able to use the hairstyles I grinded/paid millions for, is really disheartening

They didn't say that we won't be able to use "special" hairstyles, like Lightning's hair.

What they said is that we will be getting more hairstyles for Hrothgar and Viera, but that they will be unique to Hrothgar/Viera due to the way the races were implemented.

What this means is that we quite possibly will be able to get a Viera version of Lightning's hair. But we still won't have all the hairstyle options that other races have. They may add SOME of the existing hairstyles to Viera/Hrothgar, but not all.

I swear they mentioned in the past that they would be implementing the legacy hairstyles for Viera over time, but to hear them omit that detail this time around isn't reassuring at all...

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Originally Posted by Destati

I swear they mentioned in the past that they would be implementing the legacy hairstyles for Viera over time, but to hear them omit that detail this time around isn't reassuring at all...

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They didn't omit it... they confirmed it.

They said that "Of course" Hrothgars and Vieras will be getting more hairstyles over time. But that the hairstyles will be race-specific (because of the way their heads were implemented), so they won't have ALL the options that other races have right away.

What this means is that they can still have Hrothgar/Viera versions of existing hairstyles, they'd just be Hrothgar/Viera "versions".

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

They didn't omit it... they confirmed it.

They said that "Of course" Hrothgars and Vieras will be getting more hairstyles over time. But that the hairstyles will be race-specific (because of the way their heads were implemented), so they won't have ALL the options that other races have right away.

What this means is that they can still have Hrothgar/Viera versions of existing hairstyles, they'd just be Hrothgar/Viera "versions".

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How exactly does that confirm they we are getting our hairstyles? "Race-specific" to me means that they are unique to the race. On viera how exactly would they make them "race specific"? Like a braid moved slightly out of the way for an ear? Miqo'te does that. Hrothgar would have to have another face added to the list per hair! Unless I am somehow reading this wrong right now, and apparently many others.

I think this just means more options, but unique options in the future.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be wrong.

The reason old hairstyles and headgear are not compatible with Viera (as they are currently) is due to their meshes. For example, Miqo'te hair meshes actually have holes in them where their ears are at. So, if you were to put that same Miqo'te hair model onto a Hyur, there would be holes in their head. The same goes for Viera. That means that every hairstyle currently available to all races would need to be edited again to accommodate Viera ears and correct any holes in the meshes or wonky bone weights.

That would be purely if they tried to essentially copy/paste port over the hairstyles, though.. People have already demonstrated within days of ShB release that the hair can easily be fixed to work on Viera with a tiny bit of effort from a dev.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

How exactly does that confirm they we are getting our hairstyles? "Race-specific" to me means that they are unique to the race. On viera how exactly would they make them "race specific"? Like a braid moved slightly out of the way for an ear? Miqo'te does that. Hrothgar would have to have another face added to the list per hair! Unless I am somehow reading this wrong right now, and apparently many others.

I think this just means more options, but unique options in the future.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be wrong.

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Translation issues. I watched the Live Letter in Japanese, where the words used weren't up for interpretation like the ones used in the English translation.

So many wanted viera.

So many Cried for viera

So many Changed to viera just to cry :(

im sorry about hairstyles but never was a deal breaker with me for races O.o

hope they all do something special for ya.

I'm not sure why Viera are crying about hair when 90% of them were Miqo'te or Au Ra using the exact same hairstyles anyways.

I've been playing since beta of v1, having not played for two weeks ever since. My sub was always running ever since Yoshi implemented it to relaunch FF14 as Realm Reborn. I've seen the game in its lowest and highest, with poor decisions and game breaking improvements. And I always stayed cause I love this game. For the first time I feel not wanting to continue, and it's because of something as silly and unimportant game wise as this Viera and hair options problem is.
I used to be mainly Miqote, started as lalafell but soon enough went back to "Mithra", with the occasional fantasia to try out Au Ra. Now I fell in love with Viera, love her voice, her animations, her face..
However, after watching the live letter and the decision of not giving Viera farmed and purchased styles, my heart dropped and all the excitement of playing this cutie is gone.
I don't even want to go back to Miqote, and this might be the first time I'll suspend my sub. It takes nothing for SE to make us happy and grant us this basic option, and mantaining this silly position only makes us not feeling comfortable with our character. With the end result of losing subs.
I know it's only aesthetic, but not feeling comfortable with my character in an rpg just doesn't work.
All this "limited" bull poo is getting too far now, special and limited pvp, limited blu, limited race... We are already limited in real life, why the obstination about limiting us in a game too?

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I'm not sure why Viera are crying about hair when 90% of them were Miqo'te or Au Ra using the exact same hairstyles anyways.

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Seriously? People spent real money to switch to a race that was incomplete, losing access to a significant number of helmets and hairstyles (some of which *also cost real money*), and now we've got a kind of vague answer that boils down to "yeah you'll get more, but they'll still be race specific and limited." Sooo... what about the stuff I spent time, Gil, and *cash* to get before I switched?

@Kaedan I'm curious, what did they say in Japanese? Because the English translation sounds like what they already said a while ago, only with the vague "race specific" line thrown in.

Limited Jobs, limited races... What's next to be limited? I really want to know.

I really dislike this and its another point on the list about things that they said once and changed only a bit later...I mean they went out of their way in an interview (or was it in a post..) to state that Vieras will get some of the old ones but not all and that Hrothgars get new faces and manes and suddenly a bit later Viera will also not get at least some of those styles? Can we even take anything that is said seriously anymore until its in the game?

What is so hard about releasing some of them for Vieras? How is it better to create unique ones for two races instead of trying to fit the old ones for them?

How bad will this affect the releases of hairstyles for everyone? Now on top of having the ones for everyone you also need to create them for Viera and Hrothgar too..or will be left behind and have to watch others getting new ones every patch while we might get one maybe once or twice per expansion?

It will be so frustrating to get new hairstyle rewards from drops, knowing that you wont ever be able to wear them just because you used a certain race..Limiting stuff already for the genders is sometimes annoying but this..this is just bad.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I'm not sure why Viera are crying about hair when 90% of them were Miqo'te or Au Ra using the exact same hairstyles anyways.

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Oh so you know so many people and the way they played the game?

I loved collecting hairstyles, even those that I might not want to wear, and I loved to be able to change when I just wanted to. Sometimes I would wear a style for a longer time, sometimes I switched between certain styles in a few days. Those styles will now be lost to me. (And I had the good faith to believe in their words when they said that Viera will get a lot of the old ones..) And the only Viera hairstyle I like with my character is the short one I wear..that means I cant change it up at all.

It also takes away any interest or joy in getting new hairstyles as rewards from content...great another one that I cant use at all...

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Oh so you know so many people and the way they played the game?

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I've seen enough Miqo'te and Au Ra in my 6 years of playing this game to make that observation, yes.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Seriously? People spent real money to switch to a race that was incomplete, losing access to a significant number of helmets and hairstyles (some of which *also cost real money*), and now we've got a kind of vague answer that boils down to "yeah you'll get more, but they'll still be race specific and limited." Sooo... what about the stuff I spent time, Gil, and *cash* to get before I switched?

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Just switch back? I dunno.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I've seen enough Miqo'te and Au Ra in my 6 years of playing this game to make that observation, yes.



Just switch back? I dunno.

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And you see them constantly to know that they dont change when you dont just see them? I really doubt that. (As a "counter point": I have seen more Au Ra and Kittens that change their hair while a lot of the males I know barely do. )

This is a forum and criticism of limited races should be allowed. If they included that Hrothgars can only wear their starter gear would that be fine too? People could just switch back and not complain, right?

Also switching costs money. We would bascially give SE money for their decision to design limited races.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Limited Jobs, limited races... What's next to be limited? I really want to know.

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Gender locked limited job only played by certain races.

*dies*

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Just switch back? I dunno.

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Uh... No. I actually love Viera, and don't want to switch back. I just want the race to be a bit more *finished.*

Also. Switching costs even more real cash. So double no.

I hope we get some of the legacy common hairstyles. I suspect we will but I'd have to say I was disappointed with the comments made. I'm wondering what they have planned for additional racial ones and I sincerely hope the number is significant given we need more variety in the looks we can use.

I'm not pessimistic though I think we'll get many of the normal ones and certainly the paid for and significant duty related ones we work hard for and pay for.

It's obvious to me that there is still significant work to be done for headgear as well as hairstyles for both genders and that we just have to be patient as they continue to work on them. In the meantime I'm loving the race and am so happy we got it.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Uh... No. I actually love Viera, and don't want to switch back. I just want the race to be a bit more *finished.*

Also. Switching costs even more real cash. So double no.

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https://media.tenor.com/images/3ab79...0f9d/tenor.gif

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Originally Posted by Alleo

And you see them constantly to know that they dont change when you dont just see them? I really doubt that. (As a "counter point": I have seen more Au Ra and Kittens that change their hair while a lot of the males I know barely do. )

This is a forum and criticism of limited races should be allowed. If they included that Hrothgars can only wear their starter gear would that be fine too? People could just switch back and not complain, right?

Also switching costs money. We would bascially give SE money for their decision to design limited races.

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I said it was an observation I made, I didn't personally attack you, sit down.

As for spending money, didn't you make the conscious decision to spend money to switch in the first place instead of waiting to see what the new races were like? I'm all for criticism but this isn't something you resolve overnight. There's at least 90 threads a day complaining about the hairstyle limitations on the new races, they already knew it would be an issue, jeez.

What I know is that SE is not wanting for money, and FFXIV is actually very successful. If the issue is that the devs lack the manpower to devote time to this (which I'm sure they do), SE should reinvest here more of the money that this game is earning them, and hire more people to help. It's unacceptable that time and again we keep hearing about limited this and limited that while most of the money that we pay goes to other failed projects. On top of that we have to deal with the Mog Station stuff, including the additional sub for more inventory space (paying more suddendly fixes the "server limitations", it's magic!).

Look, I love the devs and I think that they do an amazing job most of the time. And we've seen plenty of times that they even work too much, too. But I honestly disagree with how their higher ups are treating both them and their game. It's really tiring to see this situation repeat itself, and even get more prominent, after so many years of FFXIV being their main -and sometimes only- cash cow.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I'm not sure why Viera are crying about hair when 90% of them were Miqo'te or Au Ra using the exact same hairstyles anyways.

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It's simple really, people are noticing something I figured out very fast once the benchmark hit. That with the options they have a lot of Viera look alike. And unlike Hrothgar and so many other races they are limited to human skin colors and gray so it makes hair and lack of hair style freedom all the more noticeable. Even if half of all kitty girls try to look generic pretty or the same or w/e the race still has the option to allow you to make a blue skin cat girl with an outrageous pompadour if you want to stand out. Many people here thought Viera were safe as a "normal race" and felt they didn't have to worry about their mogstation and reward hair being completely cut cause "surely the Hrothgar are an oddity". So now it's time for whine and cheese.

As for the topic ... Kinda reminds we of the "First they came" poem, the silly beef Viera have with Hrothgar has blinded many to the fact that they seem to be treating both races as a packaged deal. As in, despite the stupid way Hrothgar manes are being handled the race has the same number of hair styles as the Viera rn. It's always been of my opinion that they would keep that number the same regardless, so even if the Viera got like 20 of the shared hair styles I'd think the Hrothgar would get that amount divided between w/e number of faces they have at the time.

If this news is to be believed as an accurate translation and not as a mistake where he was only referring to Hrothgar then either they NOW figured that they could keep it evens-stevens better if they ONLY gave Viera race hairs or they thought Viera players would feel left out if Hrothgar got brand new unique hair styles and they just got access to the same outdated and boring styles for everyone else (and not even get all of them).

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Uh... No. I actually love Viera, and don't want to switch back. I just want the race to be a bit more *finished.*

Also. Switching costs even more real cash. So double no.

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Same here. Apparently this is asking for the world though.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

It's simple really, people are noticing something I figured out very fast once the benchmark hit. That with the options they have a lot of Viera look alike. And unlike Hrothgar and so many other races they are limited to human skin colors and gray so it makes hair and lack of hair style freedom all the more noticeable. Even if half of all kitty girls try to look generic pretty or the same or w/e the race still has the option to allow you to make a blue skin cat girl with an outrageous pompadour if you want to stand out. Many people here thought Viera were safe as a "normal race" and felt they didn't have to worry about their mogstation and reward hair being completely cut cause "surely the Hrothgar are an oddity". So now it's time for whine and cheese.

As for the topic ... Kinda reminds we of the "First they came" poem, the silly beef Viera have with Hrothgar has blinded many to the fact that they seem to be treating both races as a packaged deal. As in, despite the stupid way Hrothgar manes are being handled the race has the same number of hair styles as the Viera rn. It's always been of my opinion that they would keep that number the same regardless, so even if the Viera got like 20 of the shared hair styles I'd think the Hrothgar would get that amount divided between w/e number of faces they have at the time.

If this news is to be believed as an accurate translation and not as a mistake where he was only referring to Hrothgar then either they NOW figured that they could keep it evens-stevens better if they ONLY gave Viera race hairs or they thought Viera players would feel left out if Hrothgar got brand new unique hair styles and they just got access to the same outdated and boring styles for everyone else (and not even get all of them).

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I have a feeling they are definitly treating them as a packaged deal. One will get updated when the other gets updated. Meaning each will be equally limited, but hrothgar will always be worse off since the hair is attached to face requiring a fantasia. More face/hair options just means more fantasias required.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I'm not sure why Viera are crying about hair when 90% of them were Miqo'te or Au Ra using the exact same hairstyles anyways.

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What does that have to do with anything?

Ok by your logic; because the most used race is Female Miqo'te. Female Miqo'te should be the only race in the game.

So there is a word called variety.

Just because you see A and B use the same hairstyle doesn't mean C and D would want to use the same one.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Ok by your logic; because the most used race is Female Miqo'te. Female Miqo'te should be the only race in the game.

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At this point? It basically is.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

So there is a word called variety.

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A Viera saying the word variety? Hmm.

If I didn't adore my viera so much I probably would have fantasiad back by now. I just want to use the gyr Albanian plait I had on my miqote. :(

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Originally Posted by ErryK

At this point? It basically is.

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No its not actually.
Female miqo'te has a lot of players but female au ra and female viera are right up there.
I was taking your logic to the extreme but I was more and less pointing out that just because lots of people use a certain something, doesn't mean everybody else wants to.

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Originally Posted by Selova

If I didn't adore my viera so much I probably would have fantasiad back by now. I just want to use the gyr Albanian plait I had on my miqote. :(

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Oh yeah. That one, the latest new one, and a couple others I actually like quite a bit. I only ever used a couple hairstyles for the most part, but I bought or worked for the hairs for a reason. A lot of the times I wouldn't permanently wear things, because of clipping. I would change my hair as I changed outfit, etc.

Viera have the option (unlike hrothgar) to do the same, but it's very, very limited. I actually only like TWO hairstyles that viera have. The sideswept style that I mostly use, and the big ponytail w/ bangs. I don't like any of the other ones that much. Whether players used these hairs that often, players paid money for these hairs, or worked their butt off for others, (or just happened to be online at the right time for an event). We are completely locked out of these until we would race change to an actual 'complete' race. Viera already have a lot of unique hairs, but I want those ones back too. Not only that but on the store page, at least last time I checked, there are no warnings displayed to buyers that this part of the outfit cannot be used, or this hairstyle cannot be used as a viera.

It's a bit worrisome that you can lock yourself out of hair you already bought or worked to get. Porting unlockable styles over should alleviate that. Clipping doesn't seem as big a concern with viera, since a couple of their current styles clip into their models.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

They didn't say that we won't be able to use "special" hairstyles, like Lightning's hair.

What they said is that we will be getting more hairstyles for Hrothgar and Viera, but that they will be unique to Hrothgar/Viera due to the way the races were implemented.

What this means is that we quite possibly will be able to get a Viera version of Lightning's hair. But we still won't have all the hairstyle options that other races have. They may add SOME of the existing hairstyles to Viera/Hrothgar, but not all.

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This is kind of how I took it. They didn't specifically reference the existing hair since the question was about new hair. Viera right now have substantially less base hairstyle options compared to the other races, so this answer makes sense in that context. I still might fantasia back in the meantime, because I also miss my BLM hats and I bought the new gold saucer hair, though.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I said it was an observation I made, I didn't personally attack you, sit down.

As for spending money, didn't you make the conscious decision to spend money to switch in the first place instead of waiting to see what the new races were like? I'm all for criticism but this isn't something you resolve overnight. There's at least 90 threads a day complaining about the hairstyle limitations on the new races, they already knew it would be an issue, jeez.

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You outright said that we should stop crying because 90% of those that were Au Ra and Kittens dont change their hair anyways. So with that post you said that we should not be upset about this because most dont change it anyway. So no I wont sit down with such posts because they are not facts and even if only 10% would truly just change their hairsytles, these still had the right to "cry" about it.

And I made the decision in the little faith that I had left that they would keep their promise of giving us at least most of the hairstyles over time. (They posted about this shortly before the release) So I really hope that this is all a wrong translation like one have pointed out but if not then they again just went back against their own words and dont even warn people of that...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

I'm baffled as to why they seem to have issues with Viera and hairstyles and hats.
It's not like their head is oddly shaped or anything.
Starting to feel like adding Viera was a bigger problem than they thought lol.

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Smol multi-million indie company pls understand.
Meanwhile lone modders are able to not only upgrade the quality of old hairstyles, but make old ones working on viera. ^^

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Originally Posted by Pomelo

Gender locked limited job only played by certain races.

*dies*

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Lol talkin about Tera.