regarding the new loot system in raid content (Eden savage)

let's start by stating the new system works best for statics. However for pugs is a little bit a mix bag, you could win all or nothing for weeks.


But we all will agree that one of the good things regarding the new loots is that loots are used by all, you won't get maiming stuff where there is no dragon in the party or similar stuff.


but it is not perfect nor "solid good" yet. so I suggest the following:


1- you CAN NOT roll "need" on a piece that you already have for your current job, for example I have the Edengrace earnings of fending fro my tank, then I can ONLY greed on "Edengrace earnings coffer".


2- if a player doesn't win a coffer for an instance, they get double the books for that instance, even if SE increases the books = piece ratio a bit. for example you'll need 6 books (instead of 4) to get an accessory, which will be 3 weeks (instead of 4) in case you won nothing.


this way seems more reasonable for both statics and pugs.

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Originally Posted by Hopecord

1- you CAN NOT roll "need" on a piece that you already have, for example I have the Edengrace earnings of fending/ or any other, then you can ONLY greed on "Edengrace earnings coffer".

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I'm a little bit confused, you're complaining about it being harder to gear when pugging, but suggesting for it to be harder to gear other jobs?

Should not even have an option to need or greed for stuff your current class cannot utilize.

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Originally Posted by Kirajah

I'm a little bit confused, you're complaining about it being harder to gear when pugging, but suggesting for it to be harder to gear other jobs?

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what I want is you can roll need only when you don't have the item for your current job, so people have priority to gear the jobs they are playing over people gearing their 2nd jobs. what I'm complaining about is others can need stuff and use it for their other jobs. this way they still can but can't need. I have the bracelet of fending I can still need any bracelet coffer and give them to my other jobs, this suggestion won't allow me to need only greed and that mean I won't win it unless every other one in the party is greeding, here come the 2nd suggestion to speed up the gearing up. I am aiming for the gearing of the party rather than the individual.

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Originally Posted by AniKai

Should not even have an option to need or greed for stuff your current class cannot utilize.

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the way the loots are now every job can utilize every coffer

It is indeed harder to get loot in pugs now, especially if you are a tank or a healer. You always roll against everyone, everytime.

On the other side there were weeks that you could not see your role gear drop in any of the floors, so I don`t know which is better. 1/8 chance all the times in each loot or a 1/7 chance to drop the item of your role and then another roll against whenever is in your party. For example a SAM/MNK boots have a 1/7 chance to drop and there is a SAM and a MNK in the group so you need to win the 1/7 and the 1/2. In other words it is a real 1/14 chance against a flat 1/8 chance in all itens.

One plus side of this loot system is that you won't run into the issue where you spend your books on something, then feel like it was wasted because the item you just spent the books on happens to drop right after that.

I think it would've been nice to have one random class specific drop on top of the coffers like they've been doing with the final fight of each tier, though.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

It is indeed harder to get loot in pugs now, especially if you are a tank or a healer. You always roll against everyone, everytime.

On the other side there were weeks that you could not see your role gear drop in any of the floors, so I don`t know which is better. 1/8 chance all the times in each loot or a 1/7 chance to drop the item of your role and then another roll against whenever is in your party. For example a SAM/MNK boots have a 1/7 chance to drop and there is a SAM and a MNK in the group so you need to win the 1/7 and the 1/2. In other words it is a real 1/14 chance against a flat 1/8 chance in all itens.

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You already touched upon this, but really, tanks and healers are the ones who actually got it better in PUGs than it previously used to be. A huge advantage to this though is that people will no longer refuse to play with people who share loot with them which will make starting up raids go smoother.

Why do people start a new topic on this everyday?

We've been over this: The new system is better for everyone, even pugs.

Why? Because there's no chance of useless drops (drops for a job that isn't present). Every time gear drops, everyone can use it. Before, you had a roughly 1/7 chance of the gear for your role dropping (just one piece), and a good chance that no one in the group could use it. And then, even if your job's gear dropped, if you were a tank, healer, caster, ranged SAM or MNK (basically anyone except NIN and DRG), you still had to roll against another person, so there's another 1/2 chance you had to succeed.

Now, it's simply a flat 1/8 chance, assuming everyone rolls, and you can roll on all pieces (the chances of multiple pieces dropping for your job in the old system were astronomical by comparison).

The people who benefit the least from the changes are NIN and DRG, obviously (1/7 chance only, don't have to 1/2 for shared role), but they're still better off because they can roll on all pieces every time.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Why do people start a new topic on this everyday?

We've been over this: The new system is better for everyone, even pugs.

Why? Because there's no chance of useless drops (drops for a job that isn't present). Every time gear drops, everyone can use it. Before, you had a roughly 1/7 chance of the gear for your role dropping (just one piece), and a good chance that no one in the group could use it. And then, even if your job's gear dropped, if you were a tank, healer, caster, ranged SAM or MNK (basically anyone except NIN and DRG), you still had to roll against another person, so there's another 1/2 chance you had to succeed.

Now, it's simply a flat 1/8 chance, assuming everyone rolls, and you can roll on all pieces (the chances of multiple pieces dropping for your job in the old system were astronomical by comparison).

The people who benefit the least from the changes are NIN and DRG, obviously (1/7 chance only, don't have to 1/2 for shared role), but they're still better off because they can roll on all pieces every time.

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I'm in favor of the new system personally, what you said is right. what I suggested is in a way a refinement of the system not a replacement to increase the chance for the main (current) jobs for the players. since a player with full eden gears still have the same chance as someone with 0 eden gears.

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Originally Posted by Hopecord

I'm in favor of the new system personally, what you said is right. what I suggested is in a way a refinement of the system not a replacement to increase the chance for the main (current) jobs for the players. since a player with full eden gears still have the same chance as someone with 0 eden gears.

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Unfortunately, your number 2 suggestion doesn't work with the way their system is programmed. We get the books right away upon clearing the content, and thus there is no way for the system to check if you won a coffer or not. And to be frank, I'm not even sure they could even if they changed it to getting the books upon leaving the area.

As for your first suggestion, I can't really get behind that, unless it would check per job. So if I went tank the first week and got earrings, but then I went next week as NIN, I wouldn't want to be locked to Greed on earrings just because I have tank earrings. I COULD get behind being locked to Greed for that job/role only (can't roll Need for earring coffer if you already have earrings for your current job).

However, I don't really think any adjustments need to be made. Even though everyone can roll need every week, and thus there is a chance you get nothing, that chance is actually smaller than it was in the old system. The chances of getting nothing, even for multiple weeks, in the old system were actually higher than this new system.

that's what I meant, only for your current job. as for the 2nd suggestion it's more of a wishful thinking I don't believe they have a system supporting such an idea.

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Originally Posted by Hopecord

that's what I meant, only for your current job. as for the 2nd suggestion it's more of a wishful thinking I don't believe they have a system supporting such an idea.

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In that case, I support it! I like the new system much better than the old system, but no system is perfect. The one valid flaw in it is that people can Need for alt characters, which I don't think should be possible until the next tier of Savage is available.

It would be nice instead if everyone was allowed a automatic random drop for your job to be into your armory chest like how they do with the Dungeons, it would save a lot of headaches and stress.

I'm not sure why they got to make it this difficult for players in general by doing it this way really.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

It would be nice instead if everyone was allowed a automatic random drop for your job to be into your armory chest like how they do with the Dungeons, it would save a lot of headaches and stress.

I'm not sure why they got to make it this difficult for players in general by doing it this way really.

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That... would absolutely never happen. Savage would be dead in no time. The entire point of a drop system is to limit the progression of gear. The only reason leveling dungeons have auto-drops is because you progress past them so quickly. Once upon a time, we didn't have auto-drops in dungeons, and it wasn't uncommon for people to never get a drop from a dungeon before leveling past it on to the next one. That's why they added the auto-drop.

But end-game content doesn't have that problem. No one will leveling past it until they release the next tier.

This system is great for statics. You can min/max and increase clear rate by making sure people who need the gear get the gear first. AKA give everything to dps so you can hit the dps checks which are the true gate of savage content. (Sucks to be you healers and tanks..)

In Pugs... IT IS COMPLETELY HORRIBLE. Everyone can just needs everything. 1 person could end up getting multiple pieces in 1 boss fight. And the only possible way to prevent this is lootmaster... and good luck getting anyone to join one of those groups.

I much prefer the older system to be honest even in a static currently. Maby just reduce the book cost some. This new system honestly is going to reduce the contents life span more due to no duplicate drops / jobs on off specs no one needs. Sounds good on paper but bad for keeping ppl busy.

Personally i would be happy with the current system if they give people who didnt get any loot another token
Ex.
E1s
3 coffer drop and 5 token
E2s
2coffer drop, 1 weapon stone, 1 acc upgrade, 4 token

And so on
Otherwise no, this loot system make PUG stressfull

I'm sure the Tanks and Healers in Statics are really loving this loot change. SE didn't even need to upload the graphics for the Eden WHM, SCH, and AST weapons for a whole extra month.

Honestly I never understood why they couldn't program the loot to drop loot for the jobs that entered the instance. For example, if you don't have a brd in your party you will not see aiming gear, etc. That being said ultimately those with terrible luck and pugs will sadly have to get gear via tokens, a pain I know all too well in 4.0.