Developer if you would be so kind as to make a quick fix I would be extremely gratefu

Printable View

08-06-2019, 04:26 AM
cactuarzzzz

Developer if you would be so kind as to make a quick fix I would be extremely gratefu

- Allow Kaeshi Higanbana DOT to stack with normal Higanbana DOT

- Reduce Tsubame-gaeshi Recast Time to 30 seconds. So we can use both Kaeshi Higanbana and Kaeshi Setsugekka

- Right now, with the 60 seconds shared recast time , can't stack with normal higanbana, Kaeshi Higanbana is useless/forgotten skill preventing SAM from reaching the full potential
08-06-2019, 06:21 PM
cactuarzzzz

Please, Developer.
08-07-2019, 03:27 PM
cactuarzzzz

Please, Please.
08-07-2019, 03:39 PM
AlphaFox

I will agree, I do think the dots should stack. Though I am not max so can't speak on the shorter cooldown.
08-07-2019, 03:44 PM
Duskane

I'm curious what the potency of the 2 dots add up to together
08-07-2019, 04:38 PM
AlphaFox

35 and 52 respectively. So 87 potency with both so unsure if too strong as I can't do a full dot check between classes.
08-07-2019, 05:09 PM
SaberMaxwell

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFox

35 and 52 respectively. So 87 potency with both so unsure if too strong as I can't do a full dot check between classes.

You would probably kaiten the first Hinganbana so it would be 52 and 52, for a total of 104 potency per tick over a minute. That would be a 2080 potency DoT (20 ticks in a minute).
08-08-2019, 07:24 AM
cactuarzzzz

I hope it will get the fix since dev hinted that they will improve SAM potency in 5.08.
08-11-2019, 12:48 AM
cactuarzzzz

Please, Don't forget Kaeshi Higanbana.
08-11-2019, 03:05 PM
Shurrikhan

Why make the Tsubame-Gaeshi even less flexible? You cast far more Midare per minute than Higanbana. Allowing the DoTs to stack would make Higan your only viable Kaeshi option for single-target short of your 30-second CD change, which would be a MASSIVE buff.
08-11-2019, 07:33 PM
cactuarzzzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Why make the Tsubame-Gaeshi even less flexible? You cast far more Midare per minute than Higanbana. Allowing the DoTs to stack would make Higan your only viable Kaeshi option for single-target short of your 30-second CD change, which would be a MASSIVE buff.

We do not re apply DOT until it expire.

You need to wait 60 seconds for the DOT to expired.

It will be like this

Kaiten>Higanbana>[K]aeshi [H]iganbana

>30 secs later>Kaiten>Midare>[K]aeshi [S]etsugekka

>30 secs after KS, DOT from Higan and KH will expire so we have to re applied>Kaiten>Higanbana>KH
08-12-2019, 04:59 PM
Shurrikhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

short of your 30-second CD change, which would be a MASSIVE buff.

Let's not arbitrarily break job balance just because you want even more Midare on your Midare-Midare.
08-12-2019, 11:18 PM
cactuarzzzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Let's not arbitrarily break job balance just because you want even more Midare on your Midare-Midare.

Why would it mean more Midare? With this we still use both KH and KS EVERY 60 SECS.

And most importantly there's no balance right now. Even Devs agree that sam need more potency.
08-12-2019, 11:30 PM
cactuarzzzz

FULL QUOTE:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Why make the Tsubame-Gaeshi even less flexible? You cast far more Midare per minute than Higanbana. Allowing the DoTs to stack would make Higan your only viable Kaeshi option for single-target short of your 30-second CD change, which would be a MASSIVE buff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Let's not arbitrarily break job balance just because you want even more Midare on your Midare-Midare.

First you say it would make Higan the only viable choice, now you say it mean I will have more Midare. Which one is it?
08-13-2019, 02:09 AM
Shurrikhan

I said that if you limit your idea to the range of a reasonable buff to TG, then it will limit viable choice. If you then take the further step to overbuff the skill (greatly limiting buff potential elsewhere), the actual rotational difference is more Midare damage.

Step by step: If (1) you allow for double-Higan DoTs, you've added 215 potency per minute, at cost of variety. Such would, however, be a reasonable buff, which is why I noted it first and separately; it is in the realm of possibility. If (2) you allow for a second TG per minute without the prior change, you still add roughly over 800 potency per minute, all instantly at level 76 -- an unreasonable buff. If (3) you add both together, you add over 1000 potency per minute -- an especially unreasonable and unifocal buff -- and suddenly outperform BLM just because you want even more Iajutsu casts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Can 1000 potency more per 1 minute really make SAM surpassed BLM?

No, not anymore; I was being slightly hyperbolic. At the start of the expansion, yes, but as BLM has changed more with gear and optimization than SAM has, the gap can up to even 800. It would, however, provide around 400 additional DPS an roughly a 2000 ppm increase within a single ability, which is still absurd. I don't want half of our space for buffs to all go into a single ability even while we're already undertuned at level ranges prior to 76. I also prefer K-Higan to be powerful but situational (two-target cleave).

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

The potency buff was meant to bring us above DGN and MNK and make up for our absolute zero ultility. SMN,RDM and BLM could ask for more potency buff later too.

BLM needs no potency buffs. It and MNK are generally neck-and-neck for highest rDPS. SAM is the lowest of the A tier, but it is still A tier relative to the much larger B tier of RDM, MCH, SMN, BRD, NIN, and DNC.

At present, BLM and MNK are probably overtuned. Either DRG or SAM's rDPS are likely where everyone, with further balance adjustments, will be intended to merge. Depending on which, SAM may see small buffs or no buffs. But if everyone were powercreeped to MNK/BLM level, this Savage tier would be particularly trivial in any of its dps checks, which is why I don't think we should even be attempting to hit BLM dps. We should aim to be balanced, and fact is, we're #4 out of 10, with a huge lead over #5. We're already above the curve. We just need to cut down the gap around a chosen center.
08-13-2019, 03:02 AM
cactuarzzzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I said that if you limit your idea to the range of a reasonable buff, then it will limit viable choice. If you then take the further step to overbuff the job, the actual rotational difference is more Midare damage.

Step by step: If (1) you allow for double-Higan DoTs, you've added 215 potency per minute, at cost of variety. Such would, however, be a reasonable buff, which is why I noted it first and separately; it is in the realm of possibility. If (2) you allow for a second TG per minute without the prior change, you still add roughly over 800 potency per minute, all instantly at level 76 -- an unreasonable buff. If (3) you add both together, you add over 1000 potency per minute -- an especially unreasonable and unifocal buff -- and suddenly outperform BLM just because you want even more Iajutsu casts?

Can 1000 potency more per 1 minute really make SAM surpassed BLM?

*Why don't you say Iaijustu instead of Midare in the first place? It sound like you changing the word which each reply*
08-13-2019, 04:33 AM
Vendalwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Can 1000 potency more per 1 minute really make SAM surpassed BLM?

*Why don't you say Iaijustu instead of Midare in the first place? It sound like you changing the word which each reply*

1000 potency per minute is quite a bit more than most peoples lvl 80 capstone skills added for comparison.
That doesn't mean it's necessarily too much, but 1000 potency is definitely very significant.

NIN's 50 on gust slash, (used about once every 7 seconds) so a 500 potency gain per minute ish resulted in about 200 dps gain. potency is not even between classes, but SAM only lags behind BLM by about 500 dps iirc.
08-13-2019, 08:28 AM
VileIves

Tsubame Higanabanana is designed for two-target cleave situations. If it was a gain in single-target situations, it would never be used for anything except when a target won't live the duration.
08-13-2019, 10:59 AM
cactuarzzzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendalwind

1000 potency per minute is quite a bit more than most peoples lvl 80 capstone skills added for comparison.
That doesn't mean it's necessarily too much, but 1000 potency is definitely very significant.

NIN's 50 on gust slash, (used about once every 7 seconds) so a 500 potency gain per minute ish resulted in about 200 dps gain. potency is not even between classes, but SAM only lags behind BLM by about 500 dps iirc.

The potency buff was meant to bring us above DGN and MNK and make up for our absolute zero ultility. SMN,RDM and BLM could ask for more potency buff later too.