Were attack ‘charges’ a mistake?

With Shadowbringers, they’ve added ‘charges’ to some of the actions so you can store them and save them for later. At least, I think that’s what the idea was.

In practice, however, this adds an additional level of bloat to rotations and a constant nagging feeling that you aren’t pressing everything in time. It’s especially egregious in already busy jobs like Summoner and Machinist, turning the whole thing into a giant game of whack-a-mole.

With how busy some of the rotations already are, was adding this extra layer really necessary?

As a tank i love them.

It's great not having to worry to press an ogcd like egi assault immediately on cooldown anymore idk what you're talking about.

Huh? Shouldnt that actually help with the problem you're describing?

By giving you the option to save the action for later, you're under less preasure to use it right the second it comes off cooldown again - you can still do that, but if the skill doesnt fit in your rotation right now, you dont lose anything if you wait an additional 10 seconds.
This system is actually helping you with not having to press everything right in time and instead giving you some leeway.

The charges are a fantastic addition to the game. Especially on Machinist. Feels great to be so busy, I'm actually enjoying MCH as much as BRD now.

I love it. Keeping a charge ready for use when you would "normally" use it while still being able to cooldown the next use is great.

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Originally Posted by sexythaumaturge

With Shadowbringers, they’ve added ‘charges’ to some of the actions so you can store them and save them for later. At least, I think that’s what the idea was.

In practice, however, this adds an additional level of bloat to rotations and a constant nagging feeling that you aren’t pressing everything in time. It’s especially egregious in already busy jobs like Summoner and Machinist, turning the whole thing into a giant game of whack-a-mole.

With how busy some of the rotations already are, was adding this extra layer really necessary?

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Charges are nice and while I was skeptical before 5.0, they turned out to be a great addition to the battle system. I think you are just stressing yourself to much with what you have used and what you havent. I can only talk about MCH so far, but the OGCD reduction while hypercharged is nice and it feels good weaving one OGCD in between a GCD skill. Beside, MCH doesnt have more than 16 skills? to begin with. While other jobs got waaay more!

Aslong you check the current rotations/openers (which is made by some real dedicated people in the Balance Discord), you will get better at "how to" and "when to" use a skill.

Some of them are great, others feel like "well.... we gotta give them to this job too somehow..." and lastly some jobs didn't get any charges on skills that really could have used them.

Charges on Shoulder Tackle are great since it lets you keep a charge for movement purposes without a DPS loss from holding it (you can hold two charges) Kassatsu holding two extra charges, though, feels tacked on and makes the ninja rotation feel too busy. And red mages should have gotten a charge for fleche or contre sixte but have zero skills that hold charges.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sexythaumaturge

With Shadowbringers, they’ve added ‘charges’ to some of the actions so you can store them and save them for later. At least, I think that’s what the idea was.

In practice, however, this adds an additional level of bloat to rotations and a constant nagging feeling that you aren’t pressing everything in time. It’s especially egregious in already busy jobs like Summoner and Machinist, turning the whole thing into a giant game of whack-a-mole.

With how busy some of the rotations already are, was adding this extra layer really necessary?

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The charges on oGCDs were a brilliant way to boost the gameplay pace of certain jobs without just overloading SS into the job via traits or gear.

Speaking on MCH, the triple charges for 6 oGCDs to spend between weaponskills feel amazing and bring a level of speed to the job that makes it stand out against other speed jobs like MNK, NIN and SAM.
Theres a really nice flow to spending GR and Rico charges and then building them back up with Overheat cycles.
It never felt like bloat to me and I presently adore the new MCH. My only gripe is that I wish GR and Rico animations could get the MNK treatment for animation cancels so we can squeeze a GR and Rico into the HB window without costing a HB due to locks.

For Tank gap closers, it was more about enabling Tanks to use it as a dps boost while also being able to use it to close a gap when required.

Also, I think its fine to have jobs that are really busy because we have jobs that are really not. It kind of feeds the flavour of a Summoner to be constantly issuing commands to the Summons.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Kassatsu holding two extra charges, though, feels tacked on and makes the ninja rotation feel too busy.

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I've not gotten my NIN beyond 60 (One day, lol) but I figured the extra Kassatsu charge was done for similar reasons to the Tank gap closers.
One charge for a DPS boost, one charge for when you really need it, like a TA window or raid buffs etc.

I love my attack charges, don't you be mean to them. Kweh

Machinist would not play well at all if it didn't have charges on ricochet and gauss round
So no, in fact more OGCD's should have charges imo

Plunge, oh snap an AOE gotta move, Plunge immediate gap closer and get right back to tanking.

Nah, I like it.

https://i.imgur.com/Ik6Jz3S.png
https://i.imgur.com/Eyqlw36.png

No, no they were not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sexythaumaturge

With Shadowbringers, they’ve added ‘charges’ to some of the actions so you can store them and save them for later. At least, I think that’s what the idea was.

In practice, however, this adds an additional level of bloat to rotations and a constant nagging feeling that you aren’t pressing everything in time. It’s especially egregious in already busy jobs like Summoner and Machinist, turning the whole thing into a giant game of whack-a-mole.

With how busy some of the rotations already are, was adding this extra layer really necessary?

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Hmm I really wanna see your crossbar. It seems you have a issue with layout as you're worrying about actions per press. The charge system is fine I think tho.

You can take my 3 charge En Avant when you pry it from my cold, dead (probably from dashing off the edge) hands!

Charges are A++++ addition to jobs /endofstory

This is obviously a troll thread complaining about one of the best things to come to the game , well played sir , well played!

They are good for my tank. Bad for my SMN.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Huh? Shouldnt that actually help with the problem you're describing?

By giving you the option to save the action for later, you're under less preasure to use it right the second it comes off cooldown again - you can still do that, but if the skill doesnt fit in your rotation right now, you dont lose anything if you wait an additional 10 seconds.
This system is actually helping you with not having to press everything right in time and instead giving you some leeway.

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This so much.

Charges were a fantastic addition, helps clean up the button bloat without losing actions per minute, so it keep players busy and hotbars cleaner, helps a lot since you don't feel so punished if you don't push the button then and there and can instead save it for when you can push it or when you need it. I was pleasantly surprised by well they work, I was quite sceptical but they were a push in the right direction for the game-play as a whole.

I have mixed feelings about them. In the case of tank gap-closers, I find the circumstances in which I save one are pretty niche. Most of the time it's just optimal to dump them into party buff windows, particularly with PLD and GNBs lining up with their primary buff windows. The charge system doesn't really feel like it adds the sense of flexibility they intended.

There are also some abilities that I think would be beneficial to be on the charge system that aren't.
Sharpcast on BLM is a good example, as it's imo one of the clunkiest part of their current kit with its constant drift. If it stacked to 2 on its current 30 second CD I think it would feel a lot better.

I love them to be honest~

It makes the gameplay a bit more faster too.
Try playing MCH. You almost ALWAYS have a button going off.

I think you should play around with it on a Dummy for abit, I think you'll see that this was actually a Great Idea.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Some of them are great, others feel like "well.... we gotta give them to this job too somehow..." and lastly some jobs didn't get any charges on skills that really could have used them.

Charges on Shoulder Tackle are great since it lets you keep a charge for movement purposes without a DPS loss from holding it (you can hold two charges) Kassatsu holding two extra charges, though, feels tacked on and makes the ninja rotation feel too busy. And red mages should have gotten a charge for fleche or contre sixte but have zero skills that hold charges.

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Would you rather have new muddra combinations for the new spells, people already use macros for them because they can't use them manually.

On my machinist, I love the charge skills. It works for them and the whole set up but for summoner, I am leaning more towards not liking it as much. The egi assaults just seem like a missed opportunity to turn our ruin skills into the pet based skills. It made me think back to someone in the party making a joke about wanting to feel like a persona user from Persona 5. The character has its own auto-attack but the persona is where all the damage is. That's how I want summoner to feel. I personally think my pet should be the one dealing the most damage and not my character. Right now, it feels like they are moving towards that direction but not quite there yet.

Not really. In the situations where my jobs have had them they seemed to be there just to be there.

Charged En Avant makes me zoom around the battlefield. +1 for charges.