What if SE made Ninja Mudras...

GCD abilities like DNC's Steps, and to compensate this they raised the potency of all Ninjutsu and Trick Attack accordingly?

This may be a controversial opinion, but I actually enjoy the current mudra system, yes it's 100% unforgiving if lag pranks you or bad execution will bunny-shame you and reset the CD and make you feel miserable, however it offers something unique to the job and adds an interesting complexity that drew me to NIN since the job was introduced.

I think the current step system on DNC fits the job very well since it can control its own pace rotation wise due how proc and timers work, NIN plays in completely different and more strict way than ever before and it's FAST paced so it needs this Mudra system to keep things flowing (albeit with clipping) but I don't imagine playing it differently.

I just wish they would make some changes to the overall flow of the job rather than fiddling with Mudras and possibly making things worse than they already are.

Remove trick attack and increase potency all around. Trick attack is the biggest problem in the ninja job.

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

Remove trick attack and increase potency all around. Trick attack is the biggest problem in the ninja job.

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Also work to remove 3-step ninjutsu. A rework I'd like to see is this:

1. Remove all 3-step mudras
2. Remove Fuma Shuriken, Hyoton, Huton.
3. Change Huton to be instantly refresh to full duration at level 45 when out of combot, is both cast and extended by Armor Crush, acquired at the same level.
4. Make Suiton and Doton 2-step mudras, add a new 2-step mudra because there's room.
5. Raiton is the new 1-step single target, Katon is now a 1-step AoE, room for a third 1-step, could be aoe, single target, group buff, whatever really.

The reason for this is that the biggest source of mudra clipping is the 3-step mudra, followed by 2-step on especially bad pings. And since there's already a ton of wasted space in the mudra system in addition to bad abilities that can just be turned passive because they're typically one-and-done (Huton), this would keep the thematic trappings of how Mudras work while mitigating the issue, if only a little.

I would then take trick attack, halve its potency, double its duration, and remove the positional requirement from the debuff portion of the attack.

Trick Attack is a problem because it's both too strong and too short lived. Well, this is a net-neutral damage change provided all else is equal, but in practice will be a slight nerf to high-end play since you'll get less benefit from your aligned cooldowns while making it significantly easier for others in the party to capitalize on it in anything but high-end play.

Because it's a slight nerf to high-end play, NIN hypothetically can be given a justified potency increase without breaking the class.

EDIT: Oh right, a final thing. Keep Ten-Chi-Jin as a 3-step mudra creator, but let it create some truly amazing 3-step mudra. It's already like DNC's standard step at this point, and I wouldn't care if it enabled 4-step mudras either. Just remove the clunky aspect of it (Needing to cast ninjutsu after each step) and make it some insanely strong wombo combo to compensate.

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

Remove trick attack and increase potency all around. Trick attack is the biggest problem in the ninja job.

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100% agree.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Also work to remove 3-step ninjutsu. A rework I'd like to see is this:

1. Remove all 3-step mudras
2. Remove Fuma Shuriken, Hyoton, Huton.
3. Change Huton to be instantly refresh to full duration at level 45 when out of combot, is both cast and extended by Armor Crush, acquired at the same level.
4. Make Suiton and Doton 2-step mudras, add a new 2-step mudra because there's room.
5. Raiton is the new 1-step single target, Kataon is now a 1-step AoE, room for a third 1-step, could be aoe, single target, group buff, whatever really.

The reason for this is that the biggest source of mudra clipping is the 3-step mudra, followed by 2-step on especially bad pings. And since there's already a ton of wasted space in the mudra system in addition to bad abilities that can just be turned passive because they're typically one-and-done (Huton), this would keep the thematic trappings of how Mudras work while mitigating the issue, if only a little.

I would then take trick attack, halve its potency, double its duration, and remove the positional requirement from the debuff portion of the attack.

Trick Attack is a problem because it's both too strong and too short lived. Well, this is a net-neutral damage change provided all else is equal, but in practice will be a slight nerf to high-end play since you'll get less benefit from your aligned cooldowns while making it significantly easier for others in the party to capitalize on it in anything but high-end play.

Because it's a slight nerf to high-end play, NIN hypothetically can be given a justified potency increase without breaking the class.

EDIT: Oh right, a final thing. Keep Ten-Chi-Jin as a 3-step mudra creator, but let it create some truly amazing 3-step mudra. It's already like DNC's standard step at this point, and I wouldn't care if it enabled 4-step mudras either. Just remove the clunky aspect of it (Needing to cast ninjutsu after each step) and make it some insanely strong wombo combo to compensate.

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Best suggestions I have ever read for NIN. I'd be so goddamn happy if they did something like this. I'd also be partial to them changing it to 5% for raid 15% for NIN (then again we don't have burst issues, we have sustained issues so your suggestion is probably still better), or just removing the raid utility from it entirely and increase our potencies across the board and transition us into a more upper-middle DPS role.

Either way we're an Assassin-archetype not support, and I just want this job to pull out of the support role entirely. A lot of NIN's may hate this, but as a Rogue/Sin/Theif/Ninja/Whatever main in every MMO it still pains me to love the flow and aethetics of a class such as this, but it to be labeled as some pseudo-support buff bot.

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Originally Posted by Laur1x

100% agree.



Best suggestions I have ever read for NIN. I'd be so goddamn happy if they did something like this. I'd also be partial to them changing it to 5% for raid 15% for NIN (then again we don't have burst issues, we have sustained issues so your suggestion is probably still better), or just removing the raid utility from it entirely and increase our potencies across the board and transition us into a more upper-middle DPS role.

Either way we're an Assassin-archetype not support, and I just want this job to pull out of the support role entirely. A lot of NIN's may hate this, but as a Rogue/Sin/Theif/Ninja/Whatever main in every MMO it still pains me to love the flow and aethetics of a class such as this, but it to be labeled as some pseudo-support buff bot.

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That’s not techniqually true.

In other games rogues have always had attacks which reduce the monsters armour etc etc to increase damage taken.

Rogue in WoW had expose armour, tricks of trade, CC, and more.

Even in games like Everquest 1 in later expansions got discs (which were attack’s) which surrounded a idea of armour
Penetration.

Rogues in a lot of games get refered to as gank classes a concept of attacking vulnerable targets such as ones already being attacked. I.e 2v1ing. Which in a way is support.

The difference is, these games don’t track RDPS nor balance around it, it’s fine in WoW for your highest dps class to bring the best utility because it’s not something balanced around.

Rogues/ninjas etc etc have always had supportive concepts in such ways as breaking armour making targets more
Vulnerable and always had unique utility tied to the playstyle.

FFXIV is just a rare game which actually takes RDPS into account balance wise. So we refer to it as a support job on those bases.

The problem is, trick attack does not add enough damage to warrant the current personal dps the ninja can perform itself, and is situationally terrible such as multitarget or AoE encounters.

Trick attack needs to die imho they could just iterate ninja on 600 RDPS meaning it’s still a lead utility job, but up the potency to be more.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

That’s not techniqually true.

In other games rogues have always had attacks which reduce the monsters armour etc etc to increase damage taken.

Rogue in WoW had expose armour, tricks of trade, CC, and more.

Even in games like Everquest 1 in later expansions got discs (which were attack’s) which surrounded a idea of armour
Penetration.

Rogues in a lot of games get refered to as gank classes a concept of attacking vulnerable targets such as ones already being attacked. I.e 2v1ing. Which in a way is support.

The difference is, these games don’t track RDPS nor balance around it, it’s fine in WoW for your highest dps class to bring the best utility because it’s not something balanced around.

Rogues/ninjas etc etc have always had supportive concepts in such ways as breaking armour making targets more
Vulnerable and always had unique utility tied to the playstyle.

FFXIV is just a rare game which actually takes RDPS into account balance wise. So we refer to it as a support job on those bases.

The problem is, trick attack does not add enough damage to warrant the current personal dps the ninja can perform itself, and is situationally terrible such as multitarget or AoE encounters.

Trick attack needs to die imho they could just iterate ninja on 600 RDPS meaning it’s still a lead utility job, but up the potency to be more.

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Yeah, actually I'll admit you are right. Rogues in other games do have stuff like exposing weaknesses and stuns. It's moreso SE's balancing decisions than anything.

I love this game to death, but goddamn do I disagree with their job balance so much sometimes. It's almost laughable how much they balance around rDPS when you aren't even supposed to use damage meters, too.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Also work to remove 3-step ninjutsu. A rework I'd like to see is this:

1. Remove all 3-step mudras
2. Remove Fuma Shuriken, Hyoton, Huton.
3. Change Huton to be instantly refresh to full duration at level 45 when out of combot, is both cast and extended by Armor Crush, acquired at the same level.
4. Make Suiton and Doton 2-step mudras, add a new 2-step mudra because there's room.
5. Raiton is the new 1-step single target, Katon is now a 1-step AoE, room for a third 1-step, could be aoe, single target, group buff, whatever really.

The reason for this is that the biggest source of mudra clipping is the 3-step mudra, followed by 2-step on especially bad pings. And since there's already a ton of wasted space in the mudra system in addition to bad abilities that can just be turned passive because they're typically one-and-done (Huton), this would keep the thematic trappings of how Mudras work while mitigating the issue, if only a little.

I would then take trick attack, halve its potency, double its duration, and remove the positional requirement from the debuff portion of the attack.

Trick Attack is a problem because it's both too strong and too short lived. Well, this is a net-neutral damage change provided all else is equal, but in practice will be a slight nerf to high-end play since you'll get less benefit from your aligned cooldowns while making it significantly easier for others in the party to capitalize on it in anything but high-end play.

Because it's a slight nerf to high-end play, NIN hypothetically can be given a justified potency increase without breaking the class.

EDIT: Oh right, a final thing. Keep Ten-Chi-Jin as a 3-step mudra creator, but let it create some truly amazing 3-step mudra. It's already like DNC's standard step at this point, and I wouldn't care if it enabled 4-step mudras either. Just remove the clunky aspect of it (Needing to cast ninjutsu after each step) and make it some insanely strong wombo combo to compensate.

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I guess I'm probably one of the few that actually enjoys using 2 or 3-step mudras, heck I'd use a 4 or 5 step if it was worth it for the damage/utility pay-off, I dig the whole 'hand seals' mechanic very much so I'd like that to be preserved as much as possible. I'm OK with TA being diluted for larger window and lower damage bonus so we can actually unload the whole package comfortably. If anything, I would rather having animation lock on Kassatsu just flat out removed or shortened to the max so empowered ninjutsu feels more fluid to use.

I just want dripping blades (that 20% increase physical damage trait) and Duality returned. That should pump our numbers back up. Granted they probably got rid of Duality because of Bunshin but it still would have been nice to have a regular burst cooldown we could use to help pad NINs sustained DPS.

I will say a huge NO to the idea of removing any of the mudras combos, which is a big part of the lore and flavor of the class. After seeing what happened with AST I just do not want to see it messed with.

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

Remove trick attack and increase potency all around. Trick attack is the biggest problem in the ninja job.

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Meh, don't need to remove, just make it only increase damage taken from the Ninja using the it.

I like mudras as a whole. With 2 and 3 step mudras, I would just like them to be guaranteed to do more potency or utility when used at the right time, so as to give reason to clip the GCD. With Dripping Blades and slashing debuffs gone, Fuma Shuriken has lost most of its usefulness. I actually like that that makes Raiton and HR more valuable, I just feel like they should have proper potencies to make up for the time lost. They're special attacks and so they should feel satisfying.