Ninja - Rethinking how you play by mechanic design

Hi everyone , I'd like to share my thoughts with you after hundreds of hours of playing 5.0 ninja and deconstructing the inner weaving of how it functions on a mechanic level or developer design . It's actually not as complicated as seems and I'm here to simplify it for everyone to enjoy .

First I'd like you to please consider how the devs have really put an emphases on adding more Ninjitsus while gutting what defined our playstyle in previous expansions ( dripping blades, duality, slash resistance ect) ... basically our weaponskill rotation was the center of attention in our TA window but now the rolls have reversed .

Now what if I told you you didn't have to try and squeeze everything into your TA window but a select few moves that will address the common complaints that I've seen and read about like :

*where does Meisui fit into a rotation
*Kassatsu interfering with your regular mudra timer and alignment in general
*positioning and having to stand still during TCJ
*pretty much losing dps after your initial opener because you've used up all your oGCDs

Our rotation as I see it is split into 3 parts : Our intial set up > TA Ninjitsu Burst opener > Bunshin/Weaponskill Rotation .

Inital setup consists of : Huton > Hide > Mug > SE > True North or consumable > Shadow Fang > Suiton.. .......getting huton and SF applied should always be your first priority and not wasting time with Suiton/Meisei

TA Ninjitsu Burst opener : Trick Attack > Hyosho Ranryu > Hyosho Ranryu > TCJ ( Fuma>Raiton>Suiton ) > Meisei

Basically you're just gonna string weave your Ninjitsus with potency's increasing in sequence starting at

TA 500 > HR 600 (+30% / 180)> HR 600 (+30% / 180) > TCJ-Fuma 700 > Raiton 1000 > Suiton 325 potency not including the damage so far from SF and the 10% applied to both Kassa/HR and Fuma/Raiton which will add roughly 300 extra potency . You'll have the benefit of range when casting Kassatsu charges to position yourself to a safe area before using TCJ when you do this .

Basically a straight up mudra weaver/caster in these 10 seconds with ranged benefits as it should be . Don't worry this perfectly fits inside TA

Doing it like this also prevents interference with your regular mudra timer from Kassa/TCJ/ for exactly a 1min and 30 seconds .

Now we can dig straight into the Bunshin/Weaponskill Rotation but now with a real flow and consistency!!!!

Pretty basic start : SE > Bunshin > GS > Dwad > AE > Ass and so on but now every GCD and oGCDS/mudras are lined up to a pretty straight forward sequence with minimum downtime and interruptions ...

Here's a couple of videos to give you a general idea... nothing crazy https://youtu.be/2YV373MvFWw , https://youtu.be/HjH_J08Uvxg

If this helps I hope you enjoyed .

Disclaimer : This is in no way some definitive guide that I'm trying to shove in anyone's face but my general analyze from experience and testing over the coarse of almost a month .

I completely disagree. You still want to squeeze most of your stuff into TA in your opener to get as much burst as you can. (At least the burst is crazy on NIN.) I use this Opener: http://ffxivrotations.com/271x
This one needs a bit of practice because it is pretty fast and you will of course clip.

Ninja is a burst class. TA is perfect to give us more boost while bursting, so we need to put as much under it as possible. While Bhava will almost always fall out of TA, we need to make sure to line Bunshin under TA while not overcapping Ninki. This also needs practice. Kassatsu, Dream and Assassinate, will always be ready for TA if we keep them under the window. While Bunshin is on the first, on the 3rd, on the 5th and so on. Use Bunshin always over Bhava.

With the loss of Slashing, Fuma is weaker than Raiton. So we use Raiton now, even with clipping issues.

Using only Mudras as an Opener, well... this is not Naruto. It will suck. And while checking this Person from the Videos, well all i can say is... Gray.

The optimal opener/rotation has already been math'd out, and it's nowhere what you suggested OP. We have to double-weave and clip to be optimal (if you call barely being able to beat a DNC "optimal"). We need buffs. Plain and simple.

Hmmm if it was truly optimal everyone wouldn't be complaining about dps though right ?! Maybe people got put the calculator down and put other factors in play , when you think what's best isn't working try a different approach is all I'm saying . I've used the rotation everyones told me to use and there is really no consistency beyond the first 30 seconds , almost all videos I've seen of people doing it all practically cuts short after they do their opener or start to fumble heavily after . If all else fails try something different and experiment and I have and doing way better for it . It's not as flashy as that opener but I have complete consistency through a full oGCD cycle which is adds to more dps in the long run since I've eliminating certain factors especially the complaints I read so much about . Don't knock it till you try it

Idk why the dev's just don't nerf TA by extending it's cooldown to 120s, maybe even extend it's duration to 20s and if needed lower it's strength to 5%. This would make it less crucial to NIN's dps and raid contribution and make getting the most out of TA easier when it's up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laur1x

The optimal opener/rotation has already been math'd out, and it's nowhere what you suggested OP. We have to double-weave and clip to be optimal (if you call barely being able to beat a DNC "optimal"). We need buffs. Plain and simple.

---

Would it be OP to convert Meisui to an ability that increases NIN's personal DPS by 10% for 10 seconds, maybe add another "buff" to trick attack that disables Meisui while Trick Active is active so NIN can't just overlap Meisui and Trick Attack into one burst. Maybe just have it where Ten-Chi-Jin either doesn't immobolize us or while active using X mudra automatically uses the ninjutsu, so you can just flow into Fuma-Raiton-Suiton without feeling lagged out by it. Would get you in and out of the mobility faster.

Maybe alter the design of Kassatsu where instead of it resetting Ninjutsu to use mudra you instead use it after performing a mudra and it executes the action while resetting your ninjutsu gauge.

Basically rather than Kassatsu-mudra-mudra it's mudra-mudra-Kassatsu-reset ninjutsu.

Or maybe just give us options, Have kassatsu still able to reset if needed but when you are performing mudras it converst the kassatsu into Kassatsu-Fuma or Kassatsu-Raiton etc etc.

NIN doesn't need a big buff but it is true given the lack of utility it provides now in terms of no more slashing resist or the ability to allow both tanks to go full offense and give them enmity, we weren't given the proper balance to make up for those two lost utilities.

People complaining about the optimized ninja opener established by the mentors of Balance....nothing new here. While it might be more convenient for these pseudo openers concocted by players that offer ZERO math behind their play style; it’s only that, CONVENIENCE. It’s not a boost, it’s not going to magically align anything...in fact it’s going to drift everything to the point of being used less overall. The opener established by the mentors I mentioned is in fact the best way to align everything down the road and ensure you get the most out of the provided toolkit. It’s tough. I want changes too since it’s my main. It’s clunky to the point of SB mch and doesn’t pay near as well. You just need to practice the optimized opener and use the class in fights a few hundred times but it sticks and once it does it all aligns to the point of being habitual. Spend a lot of time at SSS and I recommend Titania extreme over Inno since it requires more effort and throws a lot more meaningful mechanics at you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laur1x

It is truly optimal, brother. Our burst openers are not the issue, with buffs and pots NIN's can burst very hard, almost harder than all other jobs, the issue is the damage falls off heavily because our sustained is doo-doo. If you want look up my name on here followed by "Titania SSS Ninja" on YT and you can see the optimal opener/rotation over the entire 3 minutes.

---

Ye my best on Titania X is 96th percentile which is 10.1k... that is very poopoo. Our opener tho will push you up to 20k and generally puts you in the lead the first 25 seconds of the fight. So the opener isn’t bad at all just as you say. It’s our sustained. And to manage that sustained damage requires you to not drift your abilities at all.

I don't know what you are talking about OP, but clearly all these years of experience on Ninja have not served you well. I advise you use the website which I won't name by name to avoid trouble to gauge your own performance and see that in comparison to other Ninjas, who are actually doing more optimal rotations, you do not fare well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagusMirel

I completely disagree. You still want to squeeze most of your stuff into TA in your opener to get as much burst as you can. (At least the burst is crazy on NIN.) I use this Opener: http://ffxivrotations.com/271x

---

I use the same opener, but since I am high latency I wanna ask: Assuming you have optimal ping, how far do you get in the TA window? Is TA supposed to last till the second Hyosho Ranryu?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gun-Cat

I use the same opener, but since I am high latency I wanna ask: Assuming you have optimal ping, how far do you get in the TA window? Is TA supposed to last till the second Hyosho Ranryu?

---

I play from East Coast (so ~100-110ms) and I can squeeze in the second Hyosho then TA ends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilyn

If you looks at from a redesign perspective , it looks like it is though pretty much naruto to me . That rotation doesn't even take advantage of the 30% buff you get from Kassatsu's second charge ... more wasted dps .... 700 + 30% from fuma alone and then a 1000 potency from raiton , technically if you're not casting anything else after Kassatsu you're losing out

---

Assuming you're talking about the ninja opener in the 2nd post, it's not wasted. The 30% is applied to the following Hyosho Ranryu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chooty

Assuming you're talking about the ninja opener in the 2nd post, it's not wasted. The 30% is applied to the following Hyosho Ranryu

---

and what about that next cast after that? You still get another buff, the only way you won't be wasting it is to cast TCJ after it , it'll be gone by the next mudra cycle since it's 15 only seconds

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laur1x

The optimal opener/rotation has already been math'd out, and it's nowhere what you suggested OP. We have to double-weave and clip to be optimal (if you call barely being able to beat a DNC "optimal"). We need buffs. Plain and simple.

---

Those aren't "You need buffs." That's flat out your rotation being broken. Plain and simple.

Summoner's in the same boat, but for different reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taranok

Those aren't "You need buffs." That's flat out your rotation being broken. Plain and simple.

---

The opener may be convoluted, but the overall rotation after that opener is fine. The issue is our DPS quite literally can go from 16-18K burst opener all the way down under 10K.

Our sustained is a big problem. We need adjustments to our more basically abilities (ie 1-2-3 AE combo, fuma being useless/raiton clipping, bhava weak) so outside the few burst phases we can be competitive.

Obviously if they overdo it NIN becomes mandatory to every group again because TA, which is why I said many times in other threads that they should just obliterate TA entirely, or nerf it to 5% and give NIN a 5-10% pDPS bump.

TA or not, being behind all 3 other melee by 2-3K DPS is a problem. If they want to band-aid fix us with some potency increases and call it a day until they rework NIN, fine, but something has to change. TA alone doesn't warrant bringing a NIN when other melee pull ahead of the rDPS we bring with their pDPS. I don't even want to get into the discussion of why TA is overrated and only a small portion of statics utilize is properly either. Majority of the playerbase, be it casual or mid-core aren't utilizing it "perfectly" to warrant out pDPS being so low. It's the most over-hyped and dramatized ability I've seen in an MMO. It almost feels like every other job just hates us and wants us to be a bottom-dwelling DPS/buff bot forever, because god forbid the Assassin class actually loses all it's utility and does big numbers, the playerbase would implode with insanity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilyn

and what about that next cast after that? You still get another buff, the only way you won't be wasting it is to cast TCJ after it , it'll be gone by the next mudra cycle since it's 15 only seconds

---

Unless I am missing something, the op's rotation was suiton->TA->Kassatsu->HR->Kassatsu->HR->TCJ in the general sense? Both your kassatsus are used up in the 2 HR, TCJ doesn't get the 30% buff no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RenAshdoll

Unless I am missing something, the op's rotation was suiton->TA->Kassatsu->HR->Kassatsu->HR->TCJ in the general sense? Both your kassatsus are used up in the 2 HR, TCJ doesn't get the 30% buff no?

---

whatever next cast is still 30% , the first Hyosho Ranryu doesn't get the buff, your first damage buff was used on your second Hyosho Ranryu but you still have that other 30% buff . The only way to take advantage of it is by using TCJ and will buff Fuma . Since Fuma is already x2.5 damage in TCJ this will increase it by another 30% by your second Kassatsu and another 10% from TA ... crits are amazing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilyn

whatever next cast is still 30% , the first Hyosho Ranryu doesn't get the buff, your first damage buff was used on your second Hyosho Ranryu but you still have that other 30% buff . The only way to take advantage of it is by using TCJ and will buff Fuma . Since Fuma is already x2.5 damage in TCJ this will increase it by another 30% by your second Kassatsu and another 10% from TA ... crits are amazing

---

Why wouldn't HR get the 30% buff when the main requirement for HR to be available is for Kassatsu to be activated? The moment the first HR gets casted, the first kassatsu will be consumed, giving it the 30%. That TCJ after the 2nd HR will not get any kassatsu buff at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilyn

I'm pretty sure the buff is applied to the next Ninjitsu taken after Kassatsu/Hyosho Ranryu because they're basically 1 action otherwise Hyosho Ranryu would always have 30% buff and that wouldn't make sense

---

Nope I can attest all ninjutsu are separated from Kassatsu; u can easily test this by looking at the 2 HR dmg values during your opener or test a normal raiton against a Kassatsu->raiton sequence; . Another evidence is that in this game, any dmg up buff will either show on your status bar or on the target status bar as a debuff; once HR went off, the kassastsu buff is gone. So yes, HR will always have the 30% buff.

Other skills that have a permanent buff to them when executing them will be BLM's Fire 4 and despair at 300 and 380 potencies respectively. 1 of the execution condition is to be in the Enochian Buff, which gives access to the tier 4 spells (fire 4, blizzard 4) + a fixed 15% increase in damage.