10k MP cap..I hate it!!

I know SE had their reasons for making MP capping off at 10k, whether it was valid or not, dont know but I hate it.

I main RDM & before the expansion, I think my MP was 15k+

When it came to raids or dungeon runs, I would hit Lucid dreaming at the beginning of a fight & never about it anymore, if my MP fell below 10k, it was a miracle.

But this 10K MP cap is garbage me. Doing some of the ShB dungeons & now some of the raids, I would happen to look at my MP & its 4k & then I have to hit lucid dreaming again.

I would have love to seen what my MPwould have look like @ level 80 without the 10k cap.

Just wanted to voice my opinion!

You should know that it is not 10k. It is 100.00%. The last 2 0's are smaller like the cents on a check, if you remember writing any of those.

You're... complaining about having to use the MP cooldown? And, you know, keep in mind manashift is not a thing anymore.

I mean I kind of understand it can be satisfying to have a large MP pool, but, well, SE thought it would be better to level out MP costs and the MP pool. If you really don't want to use lucid, you can go ham on melding piety.

So people actually have to start paying attention?
Oh the humanity!

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

You're... complaining about having to use the MP cooldown? And, you know, keep in mind manashift is not a thing anymore.

I mean I kind of understand it can be satisfying to have a large MP pool, but, well, SE thought it would be better to level out MP costs and the MP pool. If you really don't want to use lucid, you can go ham on melding piety.

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Doesn't piety only work for healers? Or am I mistaken?

Still I don't think this is a problem, unless you're verraising a lot or dying it doesn't seem like mp is an issue once you get used to hitting lucid.

Dont rdm burn mp really fast in general now?

Also I think the mp is in percents, not sure tho.

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Originally Posted by foussi

Dont rdm burn mp really fast in general now?

Also I think the mp is in percents, not sure tho.

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RDM is a bit of a MP hog now but it’s totally manageable by using lucid. I don’t get the gripe here. It’s one button.

It’s effectively the same, spells were always just a percentage of your max MP. Like say I’m a Paladin, I can still get those 5 Holy Spirits.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

RDM is a bit of a MP hog now but it’s totally manageable by using lucid. I don’t get the gripe here. It’s one button.

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It does take a bit of getting used to, but once you do yeah it's easy.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

RDM is a bit of a MP hog now but it’s totally manageable by using lucid. I don’t get the gripe here. It’s one button.

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They took away Diversion, so people now have to look for something else they need to press frequently, to complain about.

I only know the percentage MP gauge, besides my short time playing like 3 years ago, but I think it's effective at keeping MP as a resource that needs to be managed as a caster. I have not unlocked RDM yet, but as BLM I don't find too many issues with running out of MP. If I do, it's my fault for not keeping up my rotation properly. I think maintaining your resources is paramount to competent gameplay, otherwise HP and MP pools are impotent.

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Originally Posted by HumanNinjaToo

I only know the percentage MP gauge, besides my short time playing like 3 years ago, but I think it's effective at keeping MP as a resource that needs to be managed as a caster. I have not unlocked RDM yet, but as BLM I don't find too many issues with running out of MP. If I do, it's my fault for not keeping up my rotation properly. I think maintaining your resources is paramount to competent gameplay, otherwise HP and MP pools are impotent.

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To be fair: Black Mage whole rotation past level 72 is to reach 0 mana.. They also didn't need MP refresh skill either as far as I know..

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

They took away Diversion, so people now have to look for something else they need to press frequently, to complain about.

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Implying dps ever bothered with diversion.

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Originally Posted by Aladire

You should know that it is not 10k. It is 100.00%. The last 2 0's are smaller like the cents on a check, if you remember writing any of those.

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Only on the Party List.

On the personal HP/MP bar, where the HP is represented by a green bar and MP is represented by a purple bar, the numbers in "10000" are all the exact same size.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

To be fair: Black Mage whole rotation past level 72 is to reach 0 mana.. They also didn't need MP refresh skill either as far as I know..

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Hmmm... I wouldn't know. You are most likely correct. I haven't really looked at the rotation too much for that higher level range. So far, I have seen the Manafont as a BLM tool for restoring MP, however, using UI negates the necessity of it IMO. I wasn't sure if Manafont becomes relevant in higher level BLM rotations or not.

Red Mage MP issues are a real problem in long fights even if you use Lucid Dreaming on cooldown, specially if we get raids with low or no downtime or if caster gear has too much SpS, but the problem is not the new MP system.

Mp usage has always been % of base mp at level. It was just never super clear because of the random amounts of mp people had. The 10k mp you have no is functionally equivalent to the 15k you had before. You could have 100k mp right now, you'd still get the same amount of casts off before running out.

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Originally Posted by Aladire

You should know that it is not 10k. It is 100.00%. The last 2 0's are smaller like the cents on a check, if you remember writing any of those.

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Only in the party list as a style choice. The actual amount of mana we have now is 10,000.

That said, this lower cap isn't what is causing RDM to run out of mana since MP costs before the expansion would go up with level and be roughly equivalent to a percentage of max MP as a result. All this change to a cap of 10,000 mana did was make the numbers fixed.

As for Red Mages running out of MP, this is definitely a thing now since the MP costs per cast relative to max MP are now slightly higher, but the fix is simply a matter of using Lucid Dreaming on cooldown. I also noticed that Summoner has no such issues at all and can completely ignore Lucid Dreaming for the most part. I'm of the opinion that this was done purposely by SE as a way to balance or equalize raise use. I.e. RDM can chain several raises back to back, but will quickly run out of mana, whereas a Summoner will have more mana available for raising but cannot spam them back to back.

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Originally Posted by HumanNinjaToo

Hmmm... I wouldn't know. You are most likely correct. I haven't really looked at the rotation too much for that higher level range. So far, I have seen the Manafont as a BLM tool for restoring MP, however, using UI negates the necessity of it IMO. I wasn't sure if Manafont becomes relevant in higher level BLM rotations or not.

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You use Manafont to add another Fire IV and Despair (single-target Flare at level 74) into your AF phase. On lower levels it still has use to add a couple Fire IVs into your rotation, or another Flare if AoE.

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Originally Posted by Aladire

You should know that it is not 10k. It is 100.00%. The last 2 0's are smaller like the cents on a check, if you remember writing any of those.

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I actually hate this "style" choice... partly because the small numbers are actually super super hard for me to read, and partly because it just looks bad to me

Really wish they'd give the option to either show it as an actual percentage (in which case the two small digits are close to meaningless anyway), or show it as 10,000 with the numbers all the same size...

Weren't abilities always % of MP? So by setting the MP to the same level, the abilities all cost the same MP? I'm not sure I get the difference except a control in numbers.


Though I definitely kept forgetting about Lucid Dream for a while, and that was painful XD

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Only in the party list as a style choice. The actual amount of mana we have now is 10,000.

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I think they may have meant that even though the larger MP bar shows 10000, it actually represents 100.00; however, I don't really see the point when they could just as easily say that a spell costs 150 MP as opposed to 1500 MP. Granted, I have not played nearly all the classes, so I don't know if some spells MP cost does actually delve into the 10th and 100th places of 100%.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

You use Manafont to add another Fire IV and Despair (single-target Flare at level 74) into your AF phase. On lower levels it still has use to add a couple Fire IVs into your rotation, or another Flare if AoE.

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That makes sense. Sadly, I have not yet unlocked F4... :(

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Originally Posted by HumanNinjaToo

I think they may have meant that even though the larger MP bar shows 10000, it actually represents 100.00

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Max MP is always going to be 100%, so whatever number they have on any MP bar will represent 100%. The actual mana is still 10,000 since spell/ability costs are in the 300-1000 MP range and clearly takes this much mana out from the 10k total. It's a style choice to show 10000 in the party list, presumably because the numbers are smaller there and it's easier to read and they chose 10,000 MP for the very reason that when they do this it neatly lines up with the percent scale.

I used to use Lucid Dreaming on or near CD to drop threat. Now I use it on or near CD to refresh mana. It's not really any difference, aside from having to chain raise. And if you need to raise that much, your party was probably gonna wipe anyway.

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Originally Posted by Conando

It’s effectively the same, spells were always just a percentage of your max MP. Like say I’m a Paladin, I can still get those 5 Holy Spirits.

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It's not the same. RDM spell costs are 20% higher than they were pre-ShB.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

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Spell        SB cost    SB cost%    ShB cost    ShB cost%    Change
Jolt              360      2.500%        300      3.000%      +20%
Verstone          360      2.500%        300      3.000%      +20%
Verfire          360      2.500%        300      3.000%      +20%
Veraero          480      3.333%        400      4.000%      +20%
Verthunder        480      3.333%        400      4.000%      +20%
Verholy          600      4.167%        500      5.000%      +20%
Verflare          600      4.167%        500      5.000%      +20%
Scorch          ----      -----          500      5.000%      ----
Vercure          600      4.167%        500      5.000%      +20%
Scatter          480      3.333%        400      4.000%      +20%
Verraise        3600    25.000%        2400      24.000%      -4%

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Giving everyone a 10k max MP across the board is absolutely not a problem. It makes things much easier to calculate and is more representative of spell costs since the old spell costs were always a percentage of MP anyway. However, RDM definitely spends more MP% per cast than they did before.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

It's not the same. RDM spell costs are 20% higher than they were pre-ShB.


Giving everyone a 10k max MP across the board is absolutely not a problem. It makes things much easier to calculate and is more representative of spell costs since the old spell costs were always a percentage of MP anyway. However, RDM definitely spends more MP% per cast than they did before.

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They probably went up because the cost of verraise went down quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

RDM is a bit of a MP hog now but it’s totally manageable by using lucid. I don’t get the gripe here. It’s one button.

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IF the other thread where some guy was crying about one button on gun breaker calling that one key bloat is any clue we're getting ALOT of lazy players.

Comparing absolute values is pointless because it's all about the percentages.

While it is true that at level 80 the RDM burns through MP very quickly, we have absolutely no problem doing content. In prolonged fights we have to use Lucid on cool-down, which shouldn't be a problem for anybody. I'm yet to find myself out of mana or even low mana at any of the level 80 content as long as the party isn't a mess.

At most I've raised probably 5-6 times in Titania EX during one practice try and found myself OOM for a couple of seconds idle. But what do you expect? When things go south they go south, RDM mana going down with it. The previous situation where we could just throw out raises everywhere and never had to worry about our mana was overpowered anyways. And we also don't have the burden of Manashift. (Don't get me wrong, I loved being able to transfer mana to the healers. I'm just saying that our mana won't be used for that now.)

I would prefer if the RDM mana consumption is toned down a notch or two, but as it stands I don't have any problems that demand immediate attention. Obviously I won't know about Savage, as we all have to wait and see about that.

It's annoying having to use lucid dreaming so much, and I don't see why it has to be this way considering our personal DPS still lags behind everyone but ninja and dancer, but it's also not the end of the world. With that said, I really don't see the point in making it like this. We aren't exactly powerhouses so it's not like they needed to do it for balance.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

It's annoying having to use lucid dreaming so much, and I don't see why it has to be this way considering our personal DPS still lags behind everyone but ninja and dancer, but it's also not the end of the world. With that said, I really don't see the point in making it like this. We aren't exactly powerhouses so it's not like they needed to do it for balance.

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Its simple. Verraise.

I don't get the concept of relying solely upon a role action to maintain job resource. Honestly.

It's not so much the resource management that bothers me, but the fact that there is zero resource management within the base kit of the Job. In Stormblood it did not matter because Red Mage was MP neutral (which fit within the theme of the job and its story). Now, it's a mp hog in a world where the strongest Mage DPS sits on effectively infinite MP and Manfication is pretty much useless them.

It feels like a poorly executed afterthought and adds no depth to the class. It's just now a required button to press in rotation.

In effort not to present problem without the solution - perhaps we can have our MP costs be adjusted depending on how well we're balanced in Mana. Then we can have some of our Off Globals restore MP or perhaps our finisher's restore MP (Maybe our Melee hits to help support AoE rotations as well?) This will provide a better reward mechanic for playing well and allow self maintenance.

Then, Lucid Dreaming can be used as an offset/utility skill for times extra MP is needed.

Either way I do feel a change is needed.

Edit: on further thought, I'm even more in favor of it being tied to our Melee Combos, as this will also balance verraise spamming. If all we are is a Res-Mage with no offense to restore our MP, we'll severely limit our contribution and find ourselves out of mana.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

They took away Diversion, so people now have to look for something else they need to press frequently, to complain about.

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Press on cooldown rather than having any reason to delay or synergize with other cooldowns, such that the ability could easily have just been absorbed into passive rates with zero change in gameplay except having saved a button slot and needing to weave one fewer skill per minute.*

I get the feeling they will improve Red Mage's MP accumulation in 5.1. Right now it's pretty punishing to not have lucid on cd 100% of the time. The casual player isn't gonna have that kind of up time on their cooldowns.

the 10k cap is not the problem you think it is.

Before, you had 14400 mana. Res would run you 3600, or 25%. Jolt II, verfire, and verstone were 360, or 2.5%. Veraero and Verthunder were 480, or 3 and 1/3 percent. Holy and flare were 600, or 4.1666%.

Now, the relative mana costs, respectively, are 24%, 3%, 4%, and 5%. Every single spell is cheaper, but a higher relative cost, excepting verraise. On top of that, red mage's spell rotation was extended by one spell; the 5% costing scorch.

Red mage's mana issues have nothing to do with the 10k cap. It's all about the relative costs. Those are what make red mage a bit more tough on the mana bar.

And you know, that's perfectly fine with me. Hit lucid on cooldown and you're fine. Between bards and mana shift, mana was way too easy until this expansion. The 10k cap makes it a lot easier to read as well.

I wish rez with red mage cost nothing :/

Well I am extremely happy with the MP resduction cost to the RDM skills/abilities. And yes...I do know what Lucid Dreaming is for those who made mention to it & YES i have used it. I still would to have like to seen my MP @ level 80 to 17K instead of 10K. But that just me.

As a healer it took me a while to get used to the reduced mana cap, but now that I've adjusted and figured out how to weave my mana-free (or in the case of WHM mana-negative) spells with the costly ones and Lucid Dreaming, it feels a lot better.

RDM I probably play entirely incorrectly (not my main class, so I don't really care), but I've been working on sustainability for that side of things as well. That's mostly coming down to figuring out the best timing for Manafication so I can get a second melee combo in. I've found that if I hit Lucid Dreaming right before I start the melee combo, that gives me a good bump in my MP, so by the time I Disengage back to my casting combos, I've got about 15% MP back. If I can combo up enough black/white and Manafication for a second full empowered melee combo, that's even better. I still end up pretty low on mana by the end of a long boss fight, but I rarely drop into "not enough to cast anything" range.

But like I said, I probably play RDM all wrong.