[Complaint/Concern] Completely Unacceptable

This was a waste of time.

Instead of focusing on the issue at hand >

-GMs banning players willy nilly for one curse word, or trade locking a RMT
and
-This type of behavior becoming rampant, while not being addressed on any consistent level by the GMs.

The player base has decided to hone in on this singular incident, which was not even an exemplary scenario.

Which frankly accomplishes nothing but feeding into the mindset of just burning anyone who complains about a situation, simply because its not a common one. So "clearly it doesnt exist, cannot be an actual problem, so much so, as even not worth a forum post."

Even though seriously somehow I deal with this on a weekly basis if not a daily basis.

Good day.

To be fair, you were just as toxic. Responding in kind is what got you kicked, and is why the gms won't act.

To them, you were annoying as well. You wouldn't be dismissed if the majority of the party didn't agree on that. If the group didn't want to listen to what I say, then no point trying to argue with them. You can either leave the duty and suffer the penalty, just chill and have fun, or be obnoxious and get kicked like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Do share how in the world I was annoying or toxic.

They called me "retart" and I simply said "then we'll see who's retarded."

I did not call anyone retarded nor did I insult anyone.

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Uhhh....but, that's exactly what you did. People get vote kicked all the time for way less than how you acted here. You are as much to blame as they are. Did this really warrant a forum post?

You used a slur to respond to a slur dude and did it twice by your own log. At that point you absolutely went down to their level so there's no way the GMs would even bother interceding in this matter. In the future don't fight back like that. Just report and move on.

Honestly, after resorting to their brand of name-calling, you should be glad that the GM didn’t slap you with a warning or worse.

As for banning the other player, how would you know if they were given a warning or a temporary suspension or not? GMs aren’t supposed to tell you of any actions taken against the person, and unless you’re following them around waiting for them to take the hit, how would you know they weren’t punished for their slur?

Well, in your first chat log (if we assumed you're posting everything without any missing info) you were the one saying "why are you so boring" in it. So it seemed as if you were the one starting at them, hence being annoying. But since you modified it and it shows another player saying that, then at least you weren't who started this. And since in the modified log it was them that started by calling you "boring", that's a clear sign that arguing with them will get you no where.

But it's clear the group doesn't wanna follow the strats you were proposing. And from your chatlog, they were winning despite not following your strats (so you can't claim they were reaping the rewards of your hard work). So you insisting that they're doing things wrong and are losing, despite them winning is what's considered annoying, but that doesn't excuse their toxic response to you. Your toxicity started when you responded back when you should have reported them instead (That's why GMs can't help you here). The others in the group most likely saw you as being salty because no one was listening to you. And when the back and forth toxicity started, they found it OK to agree on kicking you.

Not the first time I see something like this happen btw.

You need to learn tact OP. You indirectly called them retarded and told them that they weren't listening hence why you were kicked. Nobody wants to hear that playing a game they enjoy. I know you were trying to help but if people aren't listening don't push the issue further as it simply isn't worth it.

Neither of you were behaving acceptably and it could of easily been the other person being kicked, but they got to the Vote dismiss button first and 3 others agreed.
In this game you don't get 'banned' as you said for a tiny bit of verbal fisty-cuffs. That would be awful, people are allowed to disagree with one another.

This falls under personal responsibility for all those involved, not GM obligations. You can simply blacklist the player/s and now you are better off.

Also after reading your stealth edit to the main post and your reasoning for deleting the second post you made, you absolutely sound like the main problem here. Take a deep breath, calm down, and accept people aren't going to always agree with you. It's not the end of the world.

Get over it, OP.

I’m new here. Are all male Elezen on the spectrum? It seems like they are from what I’ve seen on the forums, lol

I don't like seeing post like this here is why.

Because it turns into revenge others who read this will be like "oh this will never happen to me now because I am going to report for anything now"
This is why I keep to myself and I hardly play with people now days thanks to trust I don't have to deal with anyone trying to get me banned for nonsense.

I hope more trust options come because as long as community becomes toxic I will want to avoid it as much as possible and with the hyper sensitive people now days Its for the better.

I get not all people are like that but why chance it, i'll still do raids and stuff with people but dungeons only with someone I actually trust who can handle jokes and criticism.

Is there something about NA servers? Being on an EU as a NA-based player, I always hear crap about the player base but never thought much of it. Having gone around the forums, the ones I see complaining about toxic behavior and FFlog questions are people on NA DCs. I've got over 1,000HRs and I've yet to be asked about my logs outside of Party-Finder parties that didn't give you a heads up.

To stay on topic: OP, I've gotten into arguments with teammates too, but I also wouldn't go whining on forums for being kicked when the group didn't get along. If you were as lovely a person as you think, you wouldn't have been kicked. If I'm wrong and you're a perfectly pleasent person but got kicked regardless, move on. Being kicked sucks, but so does playing with a group who drives you up a wall.

Retarts sound delicious :3

Op, you really like to dig deeper for the treasure, don't you ?
If you still don't understand the situation and why not or why yes, then tbh were are not here to tell you.
That you need to find out yourself .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akamukai

Is there something about NA servers? Being on an EU as a NA-based player, I always hear crap about the player base but never thought much of it. Having gone around the forums, the ones I see complaining about toxic behavior and FFlog questions are people on NA DCs. I've got over 1,000HRs and I've yet to be asked about my logs outside of Party-Finder parties that didn't give you a heads up.

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I've been playing on NA for a few years and can honestly say.. troublesome players are very very rare.

The last time I had an issue is with someone who got upset with how the group was pulling. This was back in 2.0 before vote kick was a thing. But anyway the group was a friend of mine tanking, I was healing, and another friend was DPSing. I don't remember what it was this person got irked about was, but they got ticked and decided to sit at the entrance and let us three man. We couldn't kick because that wasn't a thing. I think we ended up actually getting them banned though.

But all this stuff about parsers, FFlogs, and other shenanigans.... I don't see it. Worst case scenario I've seen is a couple of healers played by bots. Usually we notice not alot of healing going around and some derpy movements. So what we do is ask point blank, "are you a bot?" If they say nothing, we vote kick them. If they speak up we apologize and keep going.

There is a subset of the community. Not a majority, but a vocal minority of some broken individuals. What I mean by broken is they are plagued IRL with anxiety, depression, and the like. So they tend to react very badly to any action or message experienced ingame that causes one of those conditions to flare up. So a miscommunication turns south real quick and then all of a sudden they feel attacked (whether they are truthfully or not entire). And when they cry for help or seek a resolution and don't get one quickly enough or one to their satisfaction. They act like there is a systemic problem across the game.

To put this simply. Lets use the typical scenario where one of these players is tanking. Already they are stepping out of their comfort zone. Their defenses are raised, their anxiety is ticking. Tanking requires setting the pace and all eyes are on them. Oh boy...

They pull a group of mobs. They get agro on everything. And everything is going great. They're not dying, DPS is killing stuff, and the healer is.. wait.. wtf is the healer doing? Oh snap they've done got bored and pulled another group. Oh crap oh damn stuff is hitting the fan! The poor tank is trying to use their abilities, trying to get the AOEs to hit. They''re hitting the wrong buttons at the wrong time, and nothing is going right.

But... in truth its not going bad. They're handling it just fine, but on their screen, in their eyes, its a blur. They can't think straight, they are shaking. Its just a horrible experience. The dust finally settles and here's where the real fun begins.

So they're going to tell the healer not to do that. And lets be honest, we all agree the healer did a bad thing. But we're not discussing the right or wrong thing done. We're talking about the feeling of the situation, the experience to understand what is causing the reaction. So stay with me.

Healer got bored. Healer sees no one dead, hell they didn't let anyone get below half. So their derped up reaction is going to be predictable. No one died, no harm no foul. Never mind the absolute terror they just imposed on the tank with issues.

Do the DPS chime in to help the tank? Nope. The DPS did their thing and don't know what the hell the argument is even about. Or very likely they'd like to do some AOE so while they may agree the healer should never pull. They're going to tell the tank its alright to pull more.

Shouldn't have said that. Should not have said that....

This freaked out tank is now being told they aren't pulling enough by three separate people. Well.. not really being told. Just suggested. But it might as well be. Three vs One right? Yeah we're having all kinds of misconstrued issues here. But that's what happens when you get someone in a situation that is.. well probably isn't good for them.

At this point there's about a dozen different ways this can go. Some better than others, some really bad. And when one isn't such a good way.. well these people need an outlet to vent said frustration. Because they just went through an entire instanced dungeon of pure anxious depressing hell. Maybe the people were dicks, maybe they didn't intend to be. It doesn't really matter at this point.

This is just one example. There's about a hundred different scenarios. But the main point is. These people got their condition flared. Didn't see people care (most likely because your average person has absolutely no clue how to identify when someone has an issue, much less how to deal with it) and then they come to the forums saying how bad the community is. While the rest of us are like 'what?'

I noticed this nearly a decade ago playing EQ2. I always knew some people were better at being in groups than others. But NOTHING prepared me for this. I was doing a level 80 dungeon with some guildmates. We were about levels 85-90 and 4 manning (max group size was 6). So we were undermanned, but overleveled. One of them was playing a tank class and learning how to tank in EQ2. Back then it was a tricky thing to do, mostly requiring you to gear properly. I had made sure my guildmate had the gear needed for their level.

So all I had to do was couch them on how to tank. Giving them heads up when adds came out. And then mechanics for some of the bosses (simpler than bosses in Sastasha for reference). Well suffice to say we had a few wipes. But we weren't discouraged. Whole point was a learning experience. We eventually got through most of it. Maybe finished it, I don't quite remember. I do remember it ending on a good note. Or so I thought.

Next day I get told by another guildmate that I was a complete jerk and that they didn't want to even be in the same guild anymore. Now that was shocking. So I asked what was it I said or did. Something along the lines of pushing their friend too hard, and saying "We'll keep at this until we get it right." I remember saying that. I had said it after a particularly tough room. However the tone I used (it was in voice) was to be encouraging and motivating. I wanted to let them know we had their back.

I mean reading it as text looks like it could be construed as being pushy or condescending. But the tone was not. I had even asked my other two friends who were on the run if I had crossed any lines. They assured me I had not and thought as I did that the run went well. Three of us thought the run went well. One felt like they were an emotional wreck, yet made no indication how it was effecting them. It took me a while after that to understand just exactly what was going on. As well as speaking to other friends who had experience with such anxiety and such before.

To this day I still can't pretend to understand exactly how these people feel. Its weird to me, even though I understand that it exists.

But these people are very self conscious when it comes to how others interact with them. To them we're always judging them, ready to pounce on the first sign of weakness to tear down their emotional barriers. Well they are right about one thing. Everyone always judges each other. Not for malevolent reasons. Many of us simply use each other for self improvement. But that's not how it is perceived. Especially when we have bad apples among us who do act within those fears and use weakness against their fellow player.

As for why NA servers may seem a bit more ansty about this stuff. I can kind of explain why. Americans and Canadians are typically more aggressive than Europeans. This isn't to say we're mean. We're just more confrontational when it comes to disagreements. Which is not always the best thing for some players who maybe need a less confrontational environment. And then there's the competitive nature that goes with that.

These are instances where you just need to have a thicker skin. I had an issue in a dungeon earlier tonight that sums up how I deal with these types of people in DF dungeons.

My normal DF run is spawn in, give them a "o/" in party chat and that's it. For example, I was playing DRG in Bardam's Mettle. The party was me, PLD, WHM and a MCH. For the first half I was giving dragon's eye to the PLD because the MCH was never really in range, being a ranged DPS and all that where the PLD was always in melee range with me. Then the PLD says "Stop giving me your eye, give it to the other DPS" I could of went off, or educated him as to why I was doing it the way I was. In the end the only thing I did was stop giving the eye to him and just self casting it.

People need to just learn to say it's only a game, in 10 years who is really going to give a f---.

It sucks that something like that happened to you, OP, but even if your intentions were nice, there is one thing we can't forget: Help is something you offer, not something you throw.

Not saying trying to be helpful is a bad thing, but sometimes the most helpful thing you can do is offer silence. Especially if the people you're aiming your help at exhibit some kind of behavior that makes you feel a certain way. If you're trying to help and someone responds to that attempt in a negative way there's no point on clapping back at them or get upset over it, just move on and focus your time and attention to something else more productive to yourself. You're not entitled to their gratitute or their acceptance to your efforts. I'm sorry for not knowing how to word this in a better way, but that's how it is.

DevilsDontFly has got the right idea.

My normal dungeon run usually goes pretty quietly. I don't type much since my hand isn't really on the keyboard. I've got one hand on WASD and the other on a 15button mouse. Usually I communicate through discord. Though when I'm in a DF group I usually don't say much unless something catches my attention. If people seem a bit chatty I may engage in general conversation. If they seem like they just want to kill stuff and get through then I go with the flow.

I normally will not offer advice unless I feel its needed. If there's a second wipe on the same thing that caused the first wipe, I'll put out a question. I'll ask if anyone needs help or if there's an issue preventing people from doing what they need to do. If they ask for help, I'll give some pointers.

If they stay quiet well.. hopefully the 3rd time is the charm. Usually it is. I haven't seen it not be in years.

Literally a case of wanting their cake and eating it too.

"Ban this player for calling me a name but don't ban me for calling them the same name!"

Grow up.

If you get kicked for any reason that is not your fault, copy the chat log, send it to the red knights and let them handle it. But there is no need for any retorts. It's that simple.

Time to get over yourself sadly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

This was a waste of time.

Instead of focusing on the issue at hand >

-GMs banning players willy nilly for one curse word, or trade locking a RMT
and
-This type of behavior becoming rampant, while not being addressed on any consistent level by the GMs.

The player base has decided to hone in on this singular incident, which was not even an exemplary scenario.

Which frankly accomplishes nothing but feeding into the mindset of just burning anyone who complains about a situation, simply because its not a common one. So "clearly it doesnt exist, cannot be an actual problem, so much so, as even not worth a forum post."

Even though seriously somehow I deal with this on a weekly basis if not a daily basis.

Good day.

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I have no idea what you just said but I don't think it's unacceptable.

I just wish I coulda been a female ronso when I made my character.. thats all