I quite like the Shared Fate idea, hope to see it expand, and perhaps go to ARR/HW/SB

https://i.imgur.com/WvKIvVr.png

Not really a title and more of a sentence but, uh yeah the title acts as a pretty good tl;dr lol.

Haven't maxed them out yet but I like the idea of shared fates as it makes the fates have a bit more worth and encourage more open world content, imo, and I like upgrading stuff (ooo +1 of something, wooo! :p).

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I was thinking it could be fun to expand the concept a bit more even, for example when I finished a shared fate tier it said I made the area safer, I think it would be quite neat if the area changes as you rank up. It's okay that it might not be anything serious but you might see more people in the town, traveling merchant, maybe a broken building being worked on, something like what happens to beast tribes as they level up. I'd also like if there was a splash rank up message, bit anti-climatic to have it just be gray text in my chat box lol.

May also introduce quests into the system like aether currents behave in order to make some of the changes feel more logical in progression (could be pre-existing quests to save on resources and encourage each area to be "completed"), such that it might make more sense when a building is fixed or what have you (the major component to leveling an area of course still being FATEs, just suggesting MSQ or a side quest may act as a gate for logical reasons). At that point it might need a new name like Zone Tiers [ZT] though lol. I think having visible changes and little cutscenes showing the minor changes and the splash text on screen when ranking up (like beast tribes) would add more encouragement to complete these tasks too, as it would be a bit more of an accomplishment (already it's cool because of the minions and materials to buy, just saying it would add to that pool of reasons why).

In order to better facilitate a state change in the area I think it would be a good idea if the gemstone trader (or whoever) of the area gets a quest or completed quest icon (like how gemstone or chocobo stations have ! even though they're not a quest per-say). When you talk to them it'll trigger the pan over the area cutscene (like beast tribes) and a short blurb on the changes you bring. At this time I might suggest an exp reward, this being a one time thing (per rank up, at time of cutscene), but further making FATE's a valuable source of leveling (at least once per area per completed ZT). Particularly I make this comment for ARR and HW areas so even if all your jobs were X level you still might be like "I guess I could get some exp on my gunbreaker in ARR zones, alright yeah I'll do that". So I'd say the reward should be a % + age of an area. So like rank 2 is ~20-30% exp, perhaps growing 5-15% per rank (rank 3 being cap right now lol), but also an added bonus for old areas the older the area the larger % bonus (in this way even if the FATE itself isn't giving good exp for you there would be some compensation by the rank up reward, so rank 3 of an ARR zone could be very substantial exp-). May consider a base amount based on level of the zone for the benefit of lower level players (so it's great exp no matter the level). If you accept the reward at max level perhaps you can earn a very big pile of poetics and a decent amount of the secondary tome of the expansion (the non weekly capped tome). There might be a worry you could save up rewards and then unlock them on new jobs, so that's something to consider on how the system works/rewards- I don't really mind if someone blazes ahead in levels with a new job.. since they'd still have to do the MSQ lol but SE may heh (tweaks may be needed).

On exp, another beast tribe-ish concept that might translate smoothly here is the bonus exp for FATEs themselves after ranks (you get more exp from beast tribe quests at certain rank milestones with a tribe), meaning greater longevity past max rank up status itself (though I think the rank up reward should still be one of the big hooks, as that would then give you a lot of areas (expansion(s) worth of areas) to head about too). You could play with that concept a bit too say maybe the reward is based on getting all of Thanalan to rank x = bonus y exp, or something like that (not saying it needs to be this way but it has some play room).

Make sure people who've already ranked up this expansion can go get the pan cutscenes and rewards :3.

Short recap:

• Splash text, like when you rank up beast tribes (actually made a thread on that in UI section already lol)
• Small changes to the area with a pan cutscene (like beast tribe), bigger changes are welcome too (so long as it doesn't ruin the vibe of an area) but obviously less expected and less reasonable (don't want to divert resources away from some other perhaps more important pieces of content, MSQ, raids, etc).
• Interconnected with story of the area when it needs to be (so changes make sense, like if a dwarf area changes due to ZT rank, might also require a tier in the dwarf tribe as well), but of course FATEs are still very much a core part of the system
• One time reward for ranking up, not so much important for "current" content but will help quite a bit for the below (may consider other reward adjustments of course)

ARR/HW/SB:
So for ARR and HW, as title says, I'd of course like to see Shared Fate (ZT?) system be implemented as well. If possible (not distracting resources from other important content), perhaps in relation to the beast tribes, it could be neat to have the system touch up the zone just a bit as well (changing some things, a "it's nice to be back and see things change" feeling). But just having the system would be nice (even if it doesn't change anything visually). As for rewards of the ARR/HW/SB zones I think adding the materials and music would be a strong start but also I think you could get quite a bit of value out of adding relic steps to them (each expansion system relating to it's own related Relic, this part of course not being a required component of the concept- if you hate it that's fine lol).

Making the beastmen related in the older system could be a nice way to encourage players who skipped them to do them now, may consider in the future for our ShB zones that beastmen relate too only at later ranks (like rank 4 ZT for Khlousia has some Dwarf relations). So say for ARR/HW/SB since we already have our full beast tribes they can relate sooner into the system but in ShB rank 4 / 5 will require you to progress with beast tribes before the ZT can move on. Like in Kholousia at rank 4 you see some Dwarfs going about on Ironfrog movers perhaps as traveling merchants, maybe even a new cave opens up with a node for miners.

Some random example of perhaps ARR, Kobolds could have some hovels off the cliff side with a walkway that loops around to the Limsa camp (Northern La Noscea zone), Ixal have a few creations in the air and some new floating decorations are in Fallgourd Float, each area having some sort of development between beast tribe, environment, and their new allies. Though the Kobold one is a bit more extreme, sort of depends on if there are easy made structures to get it done (adding some terrain from pre-existing objects vs needing entirely new pieces made).

I think what can spice up the beast tribes even further which had some revival from the ZT system (if materials, music, and story of the "land" progression isn't your thing from the ZT system), by making them be able to greatly help old relic progress, for the relic part of course you'd need to spend their currency (encouraging older players to do them again, if they're out of that currency at least lol) and be a given rank for the zone/their tribe. Some random, incomplete, examples of what ARR tribes might provide:

• Amalj'aa camp provides Atma shards and the beginning step broken weapon piece
• Kobold provide stackable alexanderite maps at cost of 75 poetics (like Mor Dhona) and tribe currency (or greater cost and 2x-3x alex if there is some underlying system that prevents stacking maps) and perhaps a chance for a bit more on both (so on a really lucky haul it'd be like 30 Alex, but usually ~10-15).
• Sahagin provide glistening materia pearls, that may act as a materia replacement in the scroll and beginning broken weapon step (they do nothing)
• Sylph provide light, like other relic purchases it can be in tiers so with north shroud and tribe at tier 1 you can purchase flowers that double your relic light gained (and then wither, but you can buy a stack of them), but at tier three you've helped create a flower garden that pools dew at the foot of the bed and bathing your weapon will give it light (2-3 dungeons worth, recharges daily) and may purchase a triple light flowers.
• Ixal provide book easing services, may lore it as they retell with great enthusiasm the tales of their flights and engineering progress- not quite what the book girl wanted but it charges the books somehow anyways (lol). The service, power based on rank, allows you to cut down the number of tasks a book needs (perhaps to the point that only three tasks remain in order to complete a book, preferably either you get to choose or it's the dungeons. . at least imo the specific FATE required step was the most annoying step in books because I just sat and watched paint dry till that specific FATE would pop haha).
• This is getting quite tangent but after a certain rank I'd love to see beast tribes unlock retainer and squadron potential (I understand if you can barely or not at all customize their appearance then lol).

In terms of priority I think releasing them from oldest to newest might be good, such that we go back and experience what's least fresh in our mind first (ARR->HW->SB). I mean if you can get them all out at once, I wouldn't complain either though lol.

Short recap:

• With the above exp reward per rank plus bonus for being an old area people may come back to these old areas occasionally (another reason to do so).
• A bit obvious but felt like it should be a bulletpoint of it's own, adds some more open world presence- not only are you going back to old areas but you can get some decent exp and open access to some not too shaby rewards (relic progress, HQ materials, music, whatever).
• Small changes again just to give a feeling that life has progressed, some of these steps working with the beast tribe tiers of the area (to allow the zone rank to have some part including them). I feel it's nice not to view places constantly as if they're in stasis (I love changing areas, beastman tribe pan cutscenes are things I look forward to lol).
• A means to help relics pop up on the grid a bit more by reducing some of the relic annoyances, strictly this will only be added when the relics are OLD. Never to fairly fresh relics. So perhaps only relics older than 1.5 expansions (so for now ARR, and HW, not SB, yet, and especially not ShB :D). However, it might mean a lot to people to know the currency will become quite valuable later ("what will I do with these 400 tokens.. so useless" now = "can't wait to convert them into relic progress").
• A way to consistently farm HQ materials of ARR/HW/SB areas, like what the ShB provides.

Super aside, I'd love if more of these phased objects (like that big Namazu structure- can't stand on it's head :() or most things that don't have collision were adjusted to have proper collision (like objects that weren't phased in). I figure it's part of the trouble and concerns they have with phasing objects in the first place but if they've figured it out or think they can I really hope for more physical as you'd expect objects to be (being able to stand on things that you think you should, not being able to pass through objects you shouldn't).

tl;dr (title seems good enough but)- I thought the Shared Fate system was neat and thought it could have some beast tribe like influences, in that it acts a bit more flash (fanfare, title splash) and brings changes to an area and includes the tribes in the development of the area itself but also that area's development into the tribe too (even if they're just minor changes like "eeeeeyyy new lamp posts" or "more hooman vists namazu yes? yes?" lol), finally to be able to add a fairly valuable reason to revisit old areas while also giving them a bit of "change over time" (bringing the system to older content).

Yes! Please expand it to old areas. Then I'll finally have Heavy Rain (Vundu Tribe Theme) in my house.

Expanding it backwards would be pretty lame. A lot of us have already leveled everything beyond those areas, which means there'd be an inordinate amount of work to unlock it that we can't derive any value from per se. The relic weapons also really don't need to be nerfed further.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Expanding it backwards would be pretty lame. A lot of us have already leveled everything beyond those areas, which means there'd be an inordinate amount of work to unlock it that we can't derive any value from per se. The relic weapons also really don't need to be nerfed further.

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Even if you level something beyond that area the rank up reward would still be something of note, especially I added that older content coming with a bonus to ranking them up (to compensate for that low level reward from FATEs). Level 70 ranks up Southern Thanalan, earns ~40-60% exp bar- and unlocks music, materials, and a little bit of a change to the world. Very worth, imo.

Also I don't really agree on your relic point, it's just busy work ("I'm going to unsync Tam Tara 42 times for light, wEEEEEeeEEEE" lol) and by ranking up an area you convert some of that more pointless relic busy work into something that might be a bit valuable (and fun) to then consume that currency earned to progress the relic. Of course if we're talking about recent relics it should be absolutely not done so people can show off their work until it's no longer really work anymore- like I said nothing really special about the busy work of 42 unysnc runs of Tam Tara, so I don't think nerfing it by adding another way to progress it is really any issue at all.

i don't mind it in the new zones but if they make me grind fates in old zones again i want weekly capped tomes out of it.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Even if you level something beyond that area the rank up reward would still be something of note, especially I added that older content coming with a bonus to ranking them up (to compensate for that low level reward from FATEs). Level 70 ranks up Southern Thanalan, earns ~40-60% exp bar- and unlocks music, materials, and a little bit of a change to the world. Very worth, imo.

Also I don't really agree on your relic point, it's just busy work ("I'm going to unsync Tam Tara 42 times for light, wEEEEEeeEEEE" lol) and by ranking up an area you convert some of that more pointless relic busy work into something that might be a bit valuable (and fun) to then consume that currency earned to progress the relic. Of course if we're talking about recent relics it should be absolutely not done so people can show off their work until it's no longer really work anymore- like I said nothing really special about the busy work of 42 unysnc runs of Tam Tara, so I don't think nerfing it by adding another way to progress it is really any issue at all.

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Fates are just busy work. The relic is already pretty easy. If you want it, go get it. Doubling up content rewards just reduces the overall volume of things to do in the game, which diminishes its longevity. I'd be more amenable to another (small) nerf to the first light step than your suggestion, frankly.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Fates are just busy work. The relic is already pretty easy. If you want it, go get it. Doubling up content rewards just reduces the overall volume of things to do in the game, which diminishes its longevity. I'd be more amenable to another (small) nerf to the first light step than your suggestion, frankly.

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I didn't say the relic is hard I just don't think there is an issue smoothing out steps by allowing people to level up a region (exclusively for ancient relics of course). Like the FATE part in the books (waiting for one specific uncommon FATE to pop), that was particularly annoying to me (not hard, not fun, easily solo-able, just annoying). I've done that step already though so. . . /shrug lol. Of course someone might find tribes annoying but to each their own ;).

Don't need relics in the system either (I would totally be fine without it being added), but I honestly think some of their steps are a bit silly at this point and could use a smoother progression by allowing players to go about the tribes and world instead- at least in some parts of the quest. Like how instead of getting rid of the light phase I suggested the sylph have tools to help accelerate light (actually I didn't suggest removing any step, just offering some options to smooth things out or at least approach it in a way that might be less "unsync everything x800"). Also particularly worried about Eureka.. but SE has loads of time to do something about that.

That and figured if it would be bound more closely to systems new players pass, and tantalized to old players once a tribe's tokens can be used for something useful again ("oh, I have 400 of those... I- wow I could make some big headway on that- I guess I'm going to go do my relic now!"), that it in the end it might actually be something more people do then (just a feeling though). Obviously we wont agree on that, so that's that then.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

i don't mind it in the new zones but if they make me grind fates in old zones again i want weekly capped tomes out of it.

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How many tomestones do you think would be fair? Open world capped tomestone farming could be fun, but we do sort of have hunts already...

Expanding it is fine, moving it backwards feels like a waste, I'd rather see that effort put into rewards and content for the current/future areas.

It'd be nice for people who are starting over.

It's a good idea to have new players or those that don't have all jobs leveled up go out in the open world.

I'm down for it, and it'd make leveling more interesting for those who don't already have their jobs at max. Plus it'd be a good way to get mats for crafters.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Expanding it is fine, moving it backwards feels like a waste, I'd rather see that effort put into rewards and content for the current/future areas.

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I miss old areas so I'd like a reason to be able to go back (treasures work sometimes), and say level up one of my jobs there. Via the rank up reward (which would always be potent), obviously the FATE exp reward would be awful lol- though they could change that if they wanted. But I agree adding to future areas would be great.

I see more work being done on future areas, but had hoped if possible they could give some touches to old areas with it. Not to ask SE to divert important resources away from current content, but if the system can move without much difficulty and some Terrain worker would like to add a few things then hey that'd be really cool!

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

It'd be nice for people who are starting over.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

It's a good idea to have new players or those that don't have all jobs leveled up go out in the open world.

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/cry I'm not new (everything is 60+)! Haha but yeah it would work really well for new players getting into a zone (music, materials, exp), maybe helping them also with some money and getting into the "old" market as they could sell HQ items early on (gil becomes less of an issue later but I've had a few people tell me they had no gil to teleport when at lower levels lol).

Edit: Also thought to add that it would mean as a new person the old areas (new to them) would look more busy as they'd have more people. Less like entering ancient content no one plays anymore to now maybe seeing a few people lol. Increasing the chance to have a world with people in it and feel less like you're at the very bottom floor of a near insurmountable tower (alleviating some daunting feelings and maybe getting low level players friends sooner), of course that doesn't mean it'll be full.. just more likely to have people in it :p.

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Originally Posted by Enla

I'm down for it, and it'd make leveling more interesting for those who don't already have their jobs at max. Plus it'd be a good way to get mats for crafters.

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^ And allow low players to more easily level them too (since HQ helps get more exp easier) :D

I would love this. I have everything leveled to 70 at least (cept GNB and DNC) but I wouldn't mind going back to the old areas.

I actually have wished there were achievements for doing every fate in an area. I love fates, and I'm glad to see fate trains again.

I like the Shared Fate system, and I like your ideas attached to it (lore / zone changes / etc.), but I would not want this in old areas, as several people have stated. Getting level-synced that low is torture.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

How many tomestones do you think would be fair? Open world capped tomestone farming could be fun, but we do sort of have hunts already...

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like half of an A rank is fine.

I think at least the concept of bonus XP spawn would be a nice incentive to do ARR/HW fates at all /shrug.

These will absolutely be expanded on for ShB as we only have access to the daytime orchestrion roll, leaving nighttime ones still waiting to be added and this seems the most fitting place for them.

I'm not a big fan of the grind, but my problems are with FATEs and are the same problems I've had with FATEs since the launch of ARR.

I've been bored of staring at a map waiting for a FATE to pop since Northern Thanalan. There should never be a time when there are no FATEs up for even a minute. I'm going to have to spend hours doing FATEs in each zone and it's going to feel like half of that time was spent looking at the map waiting to actually do something.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

I like the Shared Fate system, and I like your ideas attached to it (lore / zone changes / etc.), but I would not want this in old areas, as several people have stated. Getting level-synced that low is torture.

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I suppose ARR level sync could potentially be most painful lol but, I don't think it would be too bad to be late HW or anytime SB synced. Fair point on the potential combat ramifications of very low level syncs though hehe. However, I might suggest that ARR would likely be one of fastest, at least lower level zones, since even when synced monsters would basically evaporate lol (so while low amount of buttons you'd move VERY quickly, just by the fact most everything vanishes underneath your gaze XD).

Not sure if that adds much solace for you though lol.

Of course if they were able to implement some sort of combat shift/change to syncing such that more tools were available then that might also help?

Obviously a tangent to the thread but on syncing- Perhaps a new sync to abilities, for example if at the level 20-30 bracket one of the top hitting spells you can naturally obtain is 250 potency (I didn't look, it's just an example lol). Therefore any ability above 250 potency could still be used but would get an aggressive potency sync, such that say a level 80 Paladin could use Confiteor but it would only deal 300 potency. Obviously that would mean combat is even faster... which is already pretty fast, but it might make "acceptable" balance between new players and old players while also maintaining the old player's rotations (if 800->300 then 500->275, such that the top spells still have that similar sort of hierarchy but brought down a lot for the purpose of sync).

Aside from potential ideas that might make sync'ing more fun since it wouldn't be mandatory you could always ignore ARR's Zone Tier system and work with HW/SB.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

like half of an A rank is fine.

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I'd be happy to see more ways to engage with end game content so long as SE can balance it. Thanks for sharing what you think is fair :). Personally not sure what I'd suggest for a number but I can imagine a lot of ways to parse out the reward so the cadance is controllable (for end game tome stones). So I think SE could do that for sure, plus it might be helpful way to encourage players to liven up areas new players are coming in. I mean some players will be there already for the other rewards listed in OP but certainly MORE would be if it could provide some means of progression (those who don't feel like X or Z might do Y sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I think at least the concept of bonus XP spawn would be a nice incentive to do ARR/HW fates at all /shrug.

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Certainly making them worth more exp could be enough for some people. Personally would like the combo deal but I'm a big fan of change over time (love the beast tribes doing, Doma reconstruction, and our hubs changing). Feels like it tells a story of growth and also a story particularly with my involvement in it lol. OF course the item part of it has interesting implications too, like low level players getting access to HQ items might mean an easier time getting gil when you're new, leveling crafts, higher level players earning music rewards and spending time near low level players, etc. But yeah simply an exp shift could mean something interesting.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

These will absolutely be expanded on for ShB as we only have access to the daytime orchestrion roll, leaving nighttime ones still waiting to be added and this seems the most fitting place for them.

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Definitely hope so :). I was referring more to expanding what the system means (impacts the zone, spreads to other content), but I agree and would definitely hope it expands in the way you're saying as well too~!

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I'm not a big fan of the grind, but my problems are with FATEs and are the same problems I've had with FATEs since the launch of ARR.

I've been bored of staring at a map waiting for a FATE to pop since Northern Thanalan. There should never be a time when there are no FATEs up for even a minute. I'm going to have to spend hours doing FATEs in each zone and it's going to feel like half of that time was spent looking at the map waiting to actually do something.

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That's a fair concern :3. Currently you only need 60 FATEs to go from rank 2 to 3 which isn't that bad but waiting inbetween could be a real oof if that happened. It would be nice if they made sure the zone doesn't go to sleep if they make a shared fate system in old zones!

I personally ignored FATEs in old zones because I felt the reward was almost never worth the effort or required a train to exist in order to make it worth while, tending to be just something in the way to slow me down lol. I did FATE train level a few jobs way back in the day but that was because there were like 100 people in the zone doing Northern Thanalan trains and so it was efficient (just watched youtube videos and spammed aoe skills for hours lol). Personally I think most FATEs are more enjoyable when you're around 1-8 people, although the occasional chaotic super FATE is fun/funny (as an occasional, if they were all like Odin I'd probably be like "nah man" lol). I know some of it is just mental perception but I feel the shared FATE system has me engage with the system a lot more, and thus enjoy their concept more as content, beyond that of course actually having minor changes to the zone adding to that feeling you're doing something and validating that feeling that it's worth something. ("I've literally made this place safer, now there is a chocobo caravan and some kobolds have begun trading in the area! My work with the beast tribe is literally paying off, I can buy this stuff HQ, hype new music" etc).

Already had enough in the old zone with relics+yokai watch event.

I would LOVE For this to be added to past areas, even if it were slowly added. If gives more purpose to fate farming, rather then only doing them in the past when you were waiting for dungeons to pop/ect, or for the achievements/unique items that very few fates had. This has let me a) add to my collection of music/cards/minions. b) my personal favorite way of adding speed boosts to areas. c) while I'm leveling stuff in fates I can collect materials for friends to craft with, without having to spend time on miner/botanist/fisher.

i think they should do this for all areas
and for those doing fates on max level job
each fate should reward 10 poetics in older area
for new areas 10 of uncap tomestone and 5 of the capped one

theses are much easier ways of getting Crafter mats from over-world mobs so not relying on RNG to get them in HQ or at all

The two biggest reasons to refresh old content.

1. New players
2. New game +

To everyone who is disagreeing with this, just because you don't like FATEs doesn't make this a bad idea. This could be a game changer for levelling alt jobs IMO, making FATEs as viable as PotD again would help give choice that breaks up the spam

Honestly, I think ARR/HW/SB FATEs just need a buff to their existing rewards, rather than the new Bicoloured Gem system added on.

Increase the amount of Grand Company Seals obtained from FATEs significantly. Perhaps make it so, if you're level capped, the EXP you cannot get is converted into more Seals as well. Could even add Poetics as a reward to them, but as it stands currently I've always found it incredible sad how poor FATEs are for Grand Company Seals, can literally solo low level dungeons for faster Seal farming via dungeon gear turn ins...

Significantly increase the amount of items obtainable with Grand Company Seals. Honestly Grand Companies have needed a huge revamp for a long while now anyway, and you can easily put in a system which matches Bicoloured Gems, with materials dropped from overworld monsters can be purchased, as well as additional rewards. Perhaps give Grand Companies a presence in HW and SB areas, so the current city area is used solely to buy ARR relevant items. Move some Grand Company representatives to Ishgard and Rhalgrs Reach for HW/SB coverage.

Another big thing I'd like to see is open world content supporting open world content. So you do FATEs, perhaps it drops Treasure Maps? Gives a way to obtain those old, useless low tier Maps outside wasting an 18h gathering allowance. Can also have all maps, bar the current highest tier one, obtainable through Grand Company Seals. I'd say the same thing for Hunts, but then I'd need to talk about a massive overhaul for Hunts as well, which is getting way off topic.

I could get behind this idea to help revamp the now outdated zones and relic quests.

If shared fates are added to old zones, have them add relevance to the beast tribes present there. Give Ishgard and Kugane their own Grand Companies we can join.

Tie the Bicolored gems, beast tribe tokens, and GC seals together and maybe make minor edits to zones as you rank up to show how each zones residents, beast tribes, and GC are getting along in each.

Use the currencies to make some of the more arduous parts of the Relic Quests easier to complete on your own.

Damn mobile not allowing edits.
And yeah tie maps and hunts into this as well as well as other overworld/open world content, if things feed into each other like that. Could really make these old zones shine again for a while and make the places feel alive.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

To everyone who is disagreeing with this, just because you don't like FATEs doesn't make this a bad idea. This could be a game changer for levelling alt jobs IMO, making FATEs as viable as PotD again would help give choice that breaks up the spam

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Agreed. Don't like it, don't do it.

As a counter point to "if you don't like it, don't do it" you do have to conciser that if it was accidentally made the most powerful source of exp or some other resource then not doing it would put you at a disadvantage.

Sometimes you have to do parts of the game you dislike if you want the advantage they give you. The relic grind typically is an example of that.

Though all that has to be done is that would have to be taken into account.

Now, the other, other side.

Yes, it's a nice idea, but it's not going to happen. In order to do it, they would basically need to take every fate out of the entire game (other then the 5.0+ stuff) and rewrite them in the new format. That would be as much work as was ever done on fates, all at once. That's the downside of these "new" systems, they are just new code balanced on top of old, a horrible jenga tower mess...

In short, in order to update JUST 2.0 would take as long as 2.0 took. In order to remake the entire game to 5.0 standards, would take as long as the game has existed, though you could probably do it in a single crunch... of two years, instead of the next expansion.

Thus, TL:DR be careful what you wish for, you might not like the price.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

As a counter point to "if you don't like it, don't do it" you do have to conciser that if it was accidentally made the most powerful source of exp or some other resource then not doing it would put you at a disadvantage.

Sometimes you have to do parts of the game you dislike if you want the advantage they give you. The relic grind typically is an example of that.

Though all that has to be done is that would have to be taken into account.

Now, the other, other side.

Yes, it's a nice idea, but it's not going to happen. In order to do it, they would basically need to take every fate out of the entire game (other then the 5.0+ stuff) and rewrite them in the new format. That would be as much work as was ever done on fates, all at once. That's the downside of these "new" systems, they are just new code balanced on top of old, a horrible jenga tower mess...

In short, in order to update JUST 2.0 would take as long as 2.0 took. In order to remake the entire game to 5.0 standards, would take as long as the game has existed, though you could probably do it in a single crunch... of two years, instead of the next expansion.

Thus, TL:DR be careful what you wish for, you might not like the price.

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Counter point, we don't know their systems or how much work something will take only what it might take.

And in OP and else where in post I add the stipulation if it's going to mess up content (like drop our MSQ quality) via high resource costs then they probably shouldn't do it (or at least I'm not ready for that cost).

So I guess my tl;dr- I don't think we should play their planners, or accountants. We don't /know/ what it'll take, what resources they have, who can do what, who wants to do what, what feedback they're looking for (for systems they're getting ready to do themselves), and so on, though we might have a good idea of what a cost may be (people learning about a field/industry is not beyond forum posters lol).

Even then, even if it was expensive there are people who might be passionate about it and do it as a side project and not part of their regular activities (for example the Hrothgar and Viera headgear was done outside of Yoshida's request, and of course thank you team for doing that :)).

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Originally Posted by SinSilverwing

Damn mobile not allowing edits.
And yeah tie maps and hunts into this as well as well as other overworld/open world content, if things feed into each other like that. Could really make these old zones shine again for a while and make the places feel alive.

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On a lot of browsers you can request desktop websites, from that you can then use the edit features while on mobile :).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Counter point, we don't know their systems or how much work something will take only what it might take.

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He was pretty clear about it in the interviews.
One of the few times he replied in english, "Nightmare".

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

He was pretty clear about it in the interviews.
One of the few times he replied in english, "Nightmare".

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Source? Only time I recall him saying nightmare is for classic servers.

I got the impression that's his thoughts on all 1.0 code (including the original fate code)

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I got the impression that's his thoughts on all 1.0 code (including the original fate code)

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On classic interview with Yoshida's "nightmare" comment:

Classic refers to reviving the old game (1.0 as it were- which is dead, we don't have access to it), since it was brought up in direct context about WoW classic and making a 1.0 classic- which means a revival of WoW vanilla, before all the expansions. WoW before all the modernization, reverting years worth of patches and content- a WoW that was more Ever Quest like. To note this is even more unique/different for FFXIV since 1.0 was made on a different engine, with different zone maps, main story quest line, systems, and more- if 1.0 is Starcraft 1 then 2.0 (ARR) is Starcraft 2 and not a Starcraft 1 expansion. A bit confusing since a lot of people probably consider ARR as 1.0 as it appears to be the first game in the series to a lot of new players, but it's actually 2.0 lol.

So if that's what you're referring to then I don't think it's fair to put that comment onto this (since it's not really in the vein of the interviewer's question).

Of course it is possible they didn't update the (2.0) FATE system as a whole unit but rather built new systems as they went forward into (2.0+, meaning a lot of conversion work), but it's also possible they upgraded the whole structure over time and so ARR's systems are ready to roll and such is more like going through the list and checking rewards. Which is akin to data entry, probably boring, probably also a bit slow, but more likely do-able. Really depends on what they did and how, but that was my counter point then - we don't know what they'd have to do and how willing someone might be to do it (I mean it might even be "easy" and they still don't want to do it lol, we don't know XD).

Although probably important to say not all of my OP was to do with adding Shared FATE like system to old content, it was also on expanding the concept for current content.

So if we're referring to WoW classic -> FFXIV 1.0 classic interview question then the nightmare probably doesn't have much to do with updating ARR, since 1.0 isn't ARR. Not that I'm saying that means it's do able (or must be easy/hard) lol, just that we're back to square "unknown".

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I got the impression that's his thoughts on all 1.0 code (including the original fate code)

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This all well and good.. but Fate have been introduce in 2.0

They have to expand that system to all maps

1 ) otherwise the game looks again more like an incomplete mess, than before.
2) to bring back, even if only for a while life back to old game content, FF14 handles sadly its maps like fire and forget content that players just rush trough as fast as possible, like after me comes the flood and be done with it.


What should be done with the Fate System are in my opinion following points:


1) Expand the new mechanics retroactively to all maps
2) Increase the ridiculous Currency Limit from 500 to 5000 or better 50000
3) Let each Region, not each map, each Region, so Gridania, Ishgard, Limsa Lominsa and Ul'Dah have its own Fate Curreny and rename that from Novrandt to Twilight Jewels, sounds fancier n' better, than boring two colored stones >_>
- Gridania > Crimson Lilies
- Ishgard > Dragon Tooths
- Ul'Dah > Platin Dubloons
- Limsa Lominsa > Bottle of Pirate Ale

4) Raise the Ranks from lousy 3 to a new Max of 10 , adding new rewards to the lists for all sorts of things, like Gear Glamour Sets for Weapons n' Equipment, new Cards, Songs, Housing Items, Buff Items to help significantly with Crafters/Collectors, Mounts, Pets, Costumes, olders things that were so far eventually not receivable anymore as a means to bring it back somehow ect
5) Add continously, also to older maps new Fates to make them interesting again to revisit also from time to time older Maps
6) Add Fate Chains, where the rewards are something good, that the player basically always needs n' wants, so that the maps don't get deserted like they do now sadly, population in SHB Maps has drastically decreased already, cause rushers are already done with everything and the fate system offers absolutely nothing to bind players for a long time.
7) Add dynamic Events to the Games Maps, all of them, special fates that can change drastically on what happens in the maps, based on it if they are done or not, lets call it simply D-Fates, as for dynamic, or dangerous, changes what happen on the map, if not done, to bring people more together and care for the world they play in.
8) Old ARR Maps need to be redesigned finally to 3D Maps in which you can fly, so that you dont have to run to every fate and reach them quicker.
9) Boss Fates need to be made MUCH more rewarding, they are currently absolute garbage that gets ignored by everyone, cause theres no point in doing them more than once for the lousy 10 Achievement Points.
They need to get an own rare currency for special rewards under which has to be stuff also, that player always need, so that there is also always interest in doing Boss Fates.
10) Make B Rank Monsters worthful to kill, currently they are all useless garbage that is completely pointless to kill, except a few ARR achievements, add therefore special Monster Hunter FATE's, where the objective is to find n kill these B rank monsters, so that they get a reason for existance, rewarding players with random map based Materials, to help players getting stuff together for crafting items with them.

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

They have to expand that system to all maps

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Are you willing to wait for the next expansion to be in 2023 instead of 2021?

ROFL, as copy pasting an existing system to old maps, adding few npcs and actuakizing the UIs and making a few new rewards would take 2 years, don't be ridiculous.
Expanding an existing feature to other maps is just done maybe in 3 to maximum 6 months, if at all and this is also the kind of expectable improvements, what should kind of realistically be done, if not already soon with content patches, then with the next expansion in a big manner..

The most time consuming aspect of this kind of work is just creating new rewards, as thats naturally new content thats not simply just there from copy pasting the UI n NPCs to other maps plus adding a currency for each region.

However, yes I'm willing to wait longer on expansions, when I know that before an expansion comes, will come before of that a content patch that improves and expands existing features.
All just a matter of priorities and patience. Expansions aren't everything, yes they are important and the way to go for adding mostly new content and features, but I think its not the "job" mainly of an expansion to update n upgrade existing content, therefore are content patches there.
Expansions should focus on mainly adding new features, maps/story, raid content, classes, so basically adding new stuff like the trust system, and then several months after an expansion, its the job of content patche to look and see, where and how those added features can be improved, be integrated and improved in their depth - and that also in such a way, that in best case the whole game has a profit from doing this, not just only the latest newest game parts from the last expansion, because the new feature just got introduced there first.

You know, I want to have a complete puzzle picture and not just only the Shadowbringers Puzzle Piece, because of it being quicker n cheaper done, if those better Fate mechanics get limited to the expansion content only. (hopefully fow now only and not permanently)
If it stays so, then its just halfhearted incomplete content they added via Shadowbringers and a clear statement that they don't care about older game mechanics getting updated to the latest Status Quo, when its basically easy to do so and no kind of impossible task, nor asked too muchin my honest opinion. ;)

I would rather see them rework fates into something a bit more interesting.

I see the shared fates and the rewards behind them as a way to bribe us into actually completing them because they have been a major fail do to being ridiculously bland content, even though they were a big selling point at ARR launch. Even now, many time out after the initial rush cause they are dull as all get out. If they could make fates interesting or at least a bit more entertaining more people would do them. But you basically have boss fates, fodder fates, fodder and boss fates, escort and collection. And they couldn't be any more bland. I don't need an orchestration roll bad enough to do 66 flippin fates, per zone, that are even less enjoyable than poking myself repeatedly in the eye.

Ppl are toting shared fates and something miraculous but in truth its just the same fates we have been doing for 4 expacs now, but with a new currency attached. It's not something new, its basically just rebranding with a mediocre rewards card.

I agree to this