A question for ASTs

Last night in my leveling roulette, I got an AST healer in Stone Vigil (lv42 or something). The party setup was me (DNC), SMN, DRK, AST. By boss two, I had noticed that the AST only ever put cards on the tank. I wanted to say something, but I haven't touched the job since ShB hit, so I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to criticize.

Side note: I swear I saw at least one Bole and one Spire on the tank, which is just patently wrong, so they probably just sucked at their job, but I digress...


I understand that the changes to the cards means that some cards are better for certain roles versus others, but generally tanks and healers do less damage than a DPS, so my question is this:
Even if the appropriate melee/ranged DPS isn't available, is there ever a reason to play a card on a tank or healer?


Thanks for the answers!

It is not optimal to give tanks cards but seeing how depressing the whole job/card system is right now I wouldn't blame him. Most don't even bother using cards on low level content.

4 cards give melee dps/ tanks 6(balance/arrow/spear)/8%(Lord) while non tanks/melee get half.

It is best to always put on good dps before tanks since 3/4% on them is worth more than 6/8% on a good tank.

But i have come across this, that the tank was the best dps or felt like it so the cards would be more beneficial on them

Cool, that all makes sense! I just wasn't sure if there was some other mechanic or bonus for the AST if they played the cards on the proper role. Looks like there isn't, thanks!

1) They could've been partners. Fairly common to find a couple that goes into roulettes and buffs each other. Seen it happen more so with a dancer/tank or dancer/healer lately though, kinda sucks when you're playing a dps class and get stuck with these 2, but it is what it is.

2) The Astro was just being lazy. Typically in dungeons you're only ever targeting the tank and mobs if you plan to dps, so out of laziness they'd just throw cards on the one thing they've been targeting the entire time.

3) They have no idea what the cards even do other then give a damage bonus. I'd almost say the majority of people in game don't read patch notes for other classes and more often than not their own class half the time. Which I can understand, you don't play it often enough, so what's the big deal? Still with major class changes all around this expansion you'd think they'd do a little research.

4) A mix of all of the above, they're partnered, they only target the tank, and to hell with what the cards do, they help my tank buddy!

I actually queued with the tank, so it definitely wasn't that, otherwise I probably would've assumed the same. I was asking him in a linkshell "Why does this AST keep giving you all the cards" (he's mains WHM, so I thought he might know) and he responded with little more than ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It didn't occur to me that the healer generally has the tank targetted (obvious, in retrospect), and this was low level content so who cares, so it would make some amount of sense to just throw all the cards on the tank because of laziness. At least it's better than no cards at all.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Yeah, I get that. I actually queued with the tank, so it definitely wasn't that, otherwise I probably would've assumed the same. I was asking him in a linkshell "Why does this AST keep giving you all the cards" (he's mains WHM, so I thought he might know) and he responded with little more than ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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For a second, I thought you were talking about me because I restarted my level 56 AST yesterday and I was doing the exact same thing.

I dislike the idea that people like me are lazy, and you certainly don't need a conspiracy theory about me and the tank to explain it.

Truth be told, I read every card, the most recent guides I could, and even discussed the seals with my novice network.

Came out of it with the concept: blue to melee and tank, purple to range and healer.

I was far more focused on the interaction between the seals and divin.

Reading this thread, I understand the logic and I will adjust, but this notion that I'm lazy, not reading tooltips or guides, is really unfair.

I also don't consider myself stupid for doing a mistake which I suspect will be fairly common.

I am simply, as always, forever learning, and please appreciate others are likely doing the same, especially in a levelling roulette that is below level 50!

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

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To be fair we're all learning, and I wish more people in general were like you that took the time to look things up and ask questions. There's a fine line between Stupidity and Ignorance, and being ignorant isn't a bad thing, staying ignorant is. Ignorant is not an insult, although I know some people use it that way.

The notion of laziness I implied in my response was due to the fact the healer in question would only use cards on the tank and not the other classes in the party. While yes it's true the party was heavily ranged DPS, I'm almost certain the AST in question drew more then just melee based cards. I agree low level content isn't all that great of judgement of class playing, but you gotta learn the basics somewhere.

I am a little confused by your concept of Blue/Purple though. Blue/Purple Cards, or are you going by something else?

I typically don't play AST (SCH main here), but in my dabbling I've tended to give the tank 'melee' cards when there's only ranged/casters, with the idea being more about building my 3 seals.

That said, I didn't stop to think that DPS will typically outperform tanks outside of trash pulls generally to the point that half the potency is still better spent on DPS, and may need to adjust next time I toy with AST (which will be a ways away, b/c I'm far more interested in Eden and other classes atm).

I had a DRK in LotA today who was the top DPS in my party. She got all the cards.

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Originally Posted by Vid

I am a little confused by your concept of Blue/Purple though. Blue/Purple Cards, or are you going by something else?

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Thanks for the earlier comment, and I agree there is a difference between being ignorant and choosing to remain that way.

Yes, I was referring to the cards. Before I began playing, I did a little table to help me remember where the different cards go.

Did that before drawing a card, and when I did, my reaction was 'oh, the card has an outline of blue or purple, and shows my the type'

So mentally it became 'blue to melee/tank', 'purple to range/healer', and kept an eye on the diversity of the seals in hope of three different kinds.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

Did that before drawing a card, and when I did, my reaction was 'oh, the card has an outline of blue or purple, and shows my the type'

So mentally it became 'blue to melee/tank', 'purple to range/healer', and kept an eye on the diversity of the seals in hope of three different kinds.

Speaking of which - how hard should I be working for three different seal types? In other words, how eager should I be to hit the redraw button or play minor arcana instead?

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I'm going to be honest here, I didn't even realize the border was different. I've mained Astro for half of Heavensward (had to wait for the buffs) and all of Stormblood, so I got used to the concept of what each card did and when they changed it this expansion, for me personally it was all the DPS type cards went to melee, and all the Supportish cards went to ranged. Again that's how I saw it, but your way is actually easier to remember. Sadly I'm too set in my ways to see it differently, but I can help others remember it with your method a lot easier then my method.

As far as the Divination buff goes you always want to strive for 3 different seals. At the beginning of a dead pull (all cooldowns are up) you potentially will have 5 cards you can draw. Although it seems convoluted this all happens in my brain in a matter of seconds but this is my typical checklist.

1) Draw first card immediately upon entering an area, starts the cooldown, and you can decide who to give it to, when you're "in combat" (keywords here)

2) Use 1st card, draw 2nd card, same symbol?
a) Yes - Redraw Once - Same Symbol? - Yes - Minor Arcana
b) Yes - Redraw Once - Same Symbol? No - Use it
c) No - Use it

3) Sleeve Draw

4) Under the assumption you have at least 2 different symbols, use the rest of your redraws to try to get that last symbol, using Minor Arcana to buff party members as needed. If you don't get the symbol you need by the last card, make sure to use the card by itself without Minor Arcana. Or if you're quick on the draw (no pun intended) and see a card that was the 1st symbol in the line, you can use that and then just hope for the last symbol on another card. Example: 1 Crescent Moon, 1 Sun, 1 Blank, you draw another Crescent Moon, you use that card to give you three and hope for the last symbol to pop up to overwrite your first crescent moon and give you 3 different symbols.

5) You now have roughly 5 buffs out and hopefully 3 symbols, but at the very least 2 different symbols. Pop Divination.

I do this for two reasons, one it starts the Divination cooldown early so hopefully I'll be able to use it multiple times during the fight (ex. trials and upcoming raids for sure, not so much dungeon bosses). And two the Trick Attack window, most groups will typically have a Trick Attack window in the beginning, anywhere from 10-12 seconds into the beginning of the fight, where most cooldowns are used in conjunction with a ninja's trick attack ability, granting a big spike in DPS during that time frame. The ideal time to use Divination would be at the start of this window, and then try to line it up again when it finally comes off of cooldown.

If for whatever reason RNG hates me and I keep getting the same symbol 3-6 times in a row, I'll save Divination instead. Extremely unlikely and to be honest I believe it's only happened once in a dungeon when Sleeve Draw wasn't up and I just wasn't paying attention to the symbols in general. I have seen plenty of 2 symbol overlap though, annoying but not uncommon.

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Originally Posted by Vid

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That was just brilliant, thank you.

I had edited out the question in my post because It dawned on me the work needed for a proper reply, and it felt unfair, so I went off to try to find the answer.

Your little guide here was better than anything I could find, and wow, so good. Thank you so much for this.

Obvious redraw to get a ranged card, but if you get stuck with a melee, which is likely, then 6% on a Tank is better than 3% on any DPS. Simply because Tanks do more than 50% of the damage of a DPS.

As Forever Learning said, the cards are colour coded. The blue goes on melee damage dealers(including tanks) and pink or purple goes on ranged(including healers) so I have an idea of where I want the card before I actually have it. There are a lot of times in dungeons that I will put a blue on the tank if it’s a Warrior or Dark Knight especially and if we don’t have melee DPS. But in dungeons I know we can make it and I think it can be kinda fun for the tank as well to she the bigger numbers :). In raids and stuff I do put more thought into who will benefit the most but in dungeons I think it’s fine. Plus in 50+ dungeons, I’m more worried about getting Divination up with all three seals so I give the tank a little something too.

There are times when I want to give a tank the royal FLUSH!!! :D

I think most people have pointed out reasons as to why an AST would slap a card on the tank.

I would like to add that sometimes when you a have a fully ranged party (and that happens way too often lately) redraw likes to do stupid s^&$ like Balance -> Spear -> Balance. Both Balance and Spear give extra dps to Melees and unfortunatly you're stuck with all ranged DPS. You've burned all your redraw charges so now you either play it or minor arcana it and both will give more damage to a malee which is basically the tank. Sure you can give a gimped buff to the ranged DPS but tanks' dps is nothing to sneeze at as of late.

Otherwise the AST is all about fishing for the 3 different seals to maximize Divination dmg buff.
If i need the seal then there's a debate of.. do i slap this on the tank an get the seal now or do i redraw and hope for a card that boosts ranged with the seal i need?

Honestly, I sometimes put cards on tanks just to change things up because it doesn't really make a difference in low-level dungeons, and it breaks the monotony if there is only one melee DPS in group.

If all DPS were melee I'd put the Bole/Ewer/Spire on one of DPS. (Cause I rarely dps especially if it's big pulls. Heals>Cards>Dps for me)

If all the DPS were ranged, I'd put Spear/Arrow/Balance on the tank.

Theyshould make it so if you play the rift card on the righty person the ast also gets the buff

I main AST and honestly in leveling content, when i am screwed with 2 ranged, i see myself dropping melee cards on tanks aswell. I know a melee card is still better on a dps than a tank, but i dont care with this mess.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

I main AST and honestly in leveling content, when i am screwed with 2 ranged, i see myself dropping melee cards on tanks aswell. I know a melee card is still better on a dps than a tank, but i dont care with this mess.

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It's not though.
6% on a tank is better than 3% on a ranged DPS.

E.g.
Tank doing 7,000 gets a 6% buff to boost them to 7,420
Ranged DPS doing 10,000 gets a 3% buff to boost them to 10,300

Although looking at those figures now... hardly seems worth pointing it out.

Only case would be with a bad tank (sub 6,000) and a good BLM (maybe 12,000)

Yeah a little misinformation in this thread. In order for the melee card buff to be better on the range dps than the tank, they'd have to be doing literally more than double the tank's dps. That's not happening very often if at all. So yeah, if the tank is the only proper target for the melee buffs, feeding them the melee cards is generally the right way to go.

Not sure how crazy range dps goes for the huge trash pulls though, maybe that changes things in those cases.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It's not though.
6% on a tank is better than 3% on a ranged DPS.

E.g.
Tank doing 7,000 gets a 6% buff to boost them to 7,420
Ranged DPS doing 10,000 gets a 3% buff to boost them to 10,300

Although looking at those figures now... hardly seems worth pointing it out.

Only case would be with a bad tank (sub 6,000) and a good BLM (maybe 12,000)

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I barely to never see a Tank pulling high enough numbers in leveling dungeons to justify this.