WoL = Warrior of Light
So I just finished Shadowbringers and few things were very unclear to me lore-wise (or I just do not remember).
1. Would I be correct in saying that WoL is not really all that special without the 'plot armor' ? I know that WoL is chosen of the Hydelyn but that doesn't seem to do much ever since Hydelyn went quiet. How powerful is WoL as an individual without everyone quite literally falling over themselves to support WoL?
2. Does WoL always go into fights as 8 against the big bosses lore-wise? Raids seem to always be in groups of 8 but they never really tell us who the others are or where they came from. One time they did specify was with the Hades fight where they specifically state that other players were "warriors across the rifts".
3. What do those crystals that WoL 'absorbed' do? WoL seems to have absurd number of them compared to the Warrior from the First, who seems to only have one each. I do remember them being 'sealed away' my Midgardsormer temporarily to test our worth but I don't really remember the crystals doing work when they were present.
Few questions regarding Warrior of Light
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07-14-2019, 01:57 AMMinnelFew questions regarding Warrior of Light
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07-14-2019, 02:11 AMDaraliiAs of now, 9 times that of a normal resident of any given shard or the Source. This is in addition to immunity to tempering, the ability to understand all languages, and extremely heightened instinct(seemingly the in-universe explanation for telegraphs based on Fordola's Resonance).Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnel
In most cases it's just random adventurers that agreed to it and conveniently have the Echo, which the English localization of Stormblood poked a lot of fun at.Quote:
2. Does WoL always go into fights as 8 against the big bosses lore-wise? Raids seem to always be in groups of 8 but they never really tell us who the others are or where they came from. One time they did specify was with the Hades fight where they specifically state that other players were "warriors across the rifts".
As far as I'm aware, they're just symbols of our covenant with Hydaelyn. Midgardsormr temporarily sealed them in HW, during which time we wouldn't have had the Blessing of Light. I think Ardbert's party each carried one simply because it was a party of Warriors of Light instead of a single Warrior, but I haven't done the final role quest so there could be something I'm unaware of.Quote:
3. What do those crystals that WoL 'absorbed' do? WoL seems to have absurd number of them compared to the Warrior from the First, who seems to only have one each. I do remember them being 'sealed away' my Midgardsormer temporarily to test our worth but I don't really remember the crystals doing work when they were present.
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07-14-2019, 03:24 AMAnonymooseI think the best way to think about it is the concept of a feedback loop. The adventurer chosen by Hydaelyn was strong (and apparently a shard of someone plot-relevant, lol), and being chosen enhanced their potential. The Warrior of Light meets that potential, and thereby extends their reach and unlocks doors to yet more potential growth. People see the Warrior of Light's feats and believe in them, and these allies make the Warrior of Light capable of greater influence. If you stripped away all of the Warrior of Light's blessings, powers, and allies, they would be much less special...but still possessed of extraordinary potential. (Just not superhuman potential and global influence.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnel
Nope. Sometimes the WoL is canon-solo despite having a full party mechanically; sometimes the full party is assumed to be random elite adventurers; sometimes it's assumed to be specifically Echo-blessed champions, sometimes it's just the writing team putting a lamp shade on it for shiggles, etc. If the journal and/or quest dialogue doesn't make it explicitly clear, you probably have a blank check to assume your favorite interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnel
When Hydaelyn chooses someone to give the Echo, assuming that person embraces the gift and answers Her call, Hydaelyn gives them a sliver of Her power to aid them in their quest. This manifests as a Crystal of Light, and She can project Her influence through it, sometimes (at great personal cost).Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnel
The Warrior of Light, however, is not merely a Warrior of Light (which appear frequently in groups around Calamities), but the Champion of Hydaelyn. This blessing is supplementary to the Echo and is an exceptional rarity across history (as far as we know). The champion blessing allows the Warrior of Light to directly interfere with the aetherial realm. Their power causes the Crystals of Light to be drawn to them, and to maintain their radiance. If you think about it like server permissions, usually the Warriors of Light are mods. Hydaelyn has entrusted us with admin, for some reason. (Probably because we're a shard of someone plot-relevant, lol.)
Notice that the Crystals of Light from other Warriors go dark if drawn too deeply, but despite Midgardsormr draining ours and blocking off our connection to Her (because he wrongly assumed we were a pretender leaning on Her power to pretend to be a great hero), we lit them back up.
The story goes out of its way a few times to show you that this is proof that you yourself are why you were chosen, and that it is not merely the result of gifts from others that you are strong. A lot of people accused the WOL of this these forums just before Hraesvelgr gave a very conveniently-timed speech about, "No. At the heart of your power is not the Blessing, or the Echo, or the Eye, it was you." -
07-14-2019, 05:02 AMMinnelQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Thank you for your detailed replies! I think I have a good grasp of where WoL stands now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daralii
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07-14-2019, 05:37 AMEnkidohImmunity to tempering is the standard aspect of the Echo so anyone awoken to it has that immunity, even those with zero combat experience (1.0 showed quite a few Echo users in the Waking Sands who were just farmers and merchants who had never hefted a sword in combat before). And the 'understand all languages' thing again was more a 1.0 aspect as it was somewhat understated in ARR - it was just assumed you already knew what others were saying and the story just left it at that. Neither power are really not that all unique to only us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daralii
This is actually a complete myth caused by players overthinking things and trying to find a story explanation for gameplay mechanics where they actually have and need none at all - the Echo/Resonance being the source of ability telegraphs gameplay wise simply is not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daralii
And this is proven by plenty of enemies we face (such as robots and machina) lacking souls and yet ability telegraphs still work the same way they always do, which they wouldn't be able to if it was the Echo telling us that information (Fordola's Resonance power works by sensing subtle vibrations in a person's aether - this is how we defeated her, by stunning her senses with a concentrated blast of aether that overwhelmed her). -
07-15-2019, 08:54 AMTankHunter678Said Robots and Machina running on ceruleum which is a form of liquid aether. Even on the First every example seen runs on Aether using materials with a high native aetheric conductivity to allow for power to flow throughout the contructs. Which would fit in with the echo telling us the telegraph information by sensing the shift in the flow of aether as the Robot/Machina rerouts power to perform its various attacks. Probably even easier to see then the subtle shifts in living beings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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07-15-2019, 09:23 AMIntrovertAnt
Let's not forget that the WoL (and scions or anyone given it by Hydaelyn) has an uncontrollably ability to see into something's past and view it as if they are there. The situation in which it happens is usuay very specific to something the WoL or scions are experiencing in the moment.
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07-15-2019, 10:07 AMDelily
The WoL is more than just some rando chosen by Hydaelyn and imbued with the echo and the Blessing. Right before we fight Hades, there’s a brief moment where we appear as an ancient. The belief is that means we are either a reincarnation or a piece of the soul of one of the ancients who opposed Zodiark and summoned Hydaelyn in response. This happened after Ardbert fused with us so that may well mean that when a Rejoining happens, we fuse with that reflection’s piece of our soul.
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07-15-2019, 04:27 PMEnkidohThat is still not the same as a 'soul' though but just a tank of fuel that the machina burns in an engine (the Magitek vanguards are an example of this - the cereleum engine that it runs on is that catherine-wheel thing on it's back) - the Echo (and the Resonance too for that matter), allows us to sense the 'vibrations of the soul' (which manifests usually as being able to read a person's memories as if they'd lived through them or understanding another language without having learned it), robots are soulless beings running on a program (to say nothing of the so-called 'clockwork' machina that wouldn't even run on aether if the enemy names are to be believed).Quote:
Originally Posted by TankHunter678
It's really stretching things trying to 'explain' something that has never been needed to be explained by saying "oh we sensed the lightning aspected aether flowing through it's circuit boards and were able to determine it was about to cast an attack" in a mechanical entity that has no soul, simply to give some unneccessary lore padding to a gameplay mechanic. Besides, it was never even mentioned outright in the game that the Echo actually works the way Fordola's (and Zenos's) Resonance does anyway, this has just been players putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 8.
Also Fordola's power sensed our movement, not attacks per se, so she was able to block or parry more efficently, not know when a certain attack was about to be unleashed. -
07-15-2019, 04:40 PMDualbladeDoesn't explain anything made by Omega though since like Alpha (prior to the end of the raid story) all the enemies we fought would have had no soul as well just as Alpha did not and thus we couldn't understand him. I say this as someone who is fine with the Echo giving us some sort of warning/premonition to these attacks and other people like Trusts also dodging is do to the fact they have enough combat exp to be able to notice as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by TankHunter678
Note that our main Scion allies (IE Trust buddies) do NOT have the Echo, with the possible exception of Ryne. She 99% for sure has it due to her circumstances but she has yet to get an Echo vision like we have. Sure to be an interesting time when she finally gets that, hopefully it won't be like 1.0 Ul'Dah players.Quote:
Originally Posted by IntrovertAnt
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07-15-2019, 06:22 PMRannie
Ryne does get one echo vision and it's the exact same one our WoL gets when we are trying to get to the area that Minfillia stops the flood. She even goes , " is this " before the screen goes to the vision. Granted she was still being called Minfillia at the time but it still is a vision with the echo.
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07-15-2019, 07:10 PMJandorDoes Hydaelyn give out the echo? It has been years since I played the first part of the story so I can't remember if it's ever really mentioned how we get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
I had got the impression by the end of ShB that having the echo is a sign you're a splintered Amaurotine soul. The Amaurotine ability to communicate across language barriers and the immunity echo users have to the bastardized version of creation magic that is the summoned primals seemed to hint at it to me.
Or maybe I'm just trying to make something that seems cool fit where it doesn't.
Edit: and the Ascians at many various points being all "there is much much more to the echo" & "you would understand us better if you mastered the echo." -
07-16-2019, 02:28 AMTankHunter678Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
I honestly do not think the subject needs to have a soul at all for the echo to read the flow of aether going into attacks. It however requires a soul for it to get the language information so we can understand them and memories of the subject to show them to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualblade
Just like how so often in anime, light novels, and manga martial artists can read the flow of Ki going into attacks in order to find ways to avoid them or deflect them optimally.
Which makes my explanation apply to Omega constructs as well just like it does to robots, machina, and golems. We are reading the flow of the aether rather then the soul itself to determine how they are going to attack. We do not need to read precise circuit by circuit flows of aether to determine that it is starting to reroute power to charge up its beam cannon.
Fordola's case with the resonance is an artificial copy of the echo possessed by Krile who has a version of the Echo that makes her highly sensitive to getting information from the souls of others. Something Fordola was not born with and did not really have nearly as much time to adapt to it unlike Krile.
As we do know that there are variations in the echo and different sensitivities to different things. With Krile being really sensitive to information from souls, Minfilia being really sensitive to the voice of Hydaelyn, and our player character is decisively well optimized for combat. -
07-16-2019, 02:31 AMDualbladeOnce more I forget so many things, thank you. But yeah Ryne has Echo 100% then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
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07-16-2019, 02:49 AMAnonymooseAs of today, the vast majority of the Echo-blessed we've seen are said to have received it from Hydaelyn, both in-world and out-of-world. Hydaelyn is the, "Hear, Feel, Think" when people awaken, the source of the vision of the Starshower (which once appeared over Silvertear Lake and at this point could be anything). In interviews, Koji and Oda have supported the in-game narrative explicitly. Could NeW ReVeLaTiOnS prove there's more to it? Of course! But, for now, yes, Hydaelyn is the source of our (and many other) Echoes. That said, the Sahagin elder directly credited Elidibus with his awakening, so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
It was originally stated that Hydaelyn was just like, "Aha, that one." and that She had some idea of what She looked for in someone who had the means, motive, and opportunity to do the things She needed done. 5.0 suggested there might be more to that, as well. Perhaps the summoners of Hydaelyn were twelve in number. Perhaps those souls were sundered like all others. Perhaps when the Ascians start kicking Her shins, Hydaelyn starts firing Echo buckshot into the crowd but singles out those twelve especially to lead them, whoever or wherever they may be. Perhaps that's why history always remembers Her champions as being twelve in number.
I loathe the Final Fantasy tropes where we suddenly transcend all tiers of existence and become god or are revealed to have always been some cosmic powerhouse. I like when we become special, and then one day go back to being a regular old human. The perfect ending of FFXIV for me is the Warrior of Light retired, hanging out at the Drowning Wench with a drink and smiling at an obviously newly-formed party about to leave for their first adventure. That said, if the Warrior of Light's Ancient persona was somehow deeply connected to Hydaelyn all along and this was Her hail-mary play to come back from the brink at the last moment, hoping that the sundered shard of Her old acquaintance would pull through, and then we just got to go on being ourselves, I think that'd still be okay. -
07-16-2019, 12:32 PMRannieYw half the time I've been on playing the game I've been watching cutscenes over and over again between leveling dancer and getting tomes... Well certain cutscenes <.<>.>. I've almost watched them enough times to where I can quote them verbatim... I have no life outside of work *hangs head*Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualblade