Pulling Wall to Wall as DRK

So I'm level 74 DRK atm and have been having a difficult time pulling the wall to wall pulls as i used to in Stormblood. I usually run in with the usual aoe openers, pop Flood for Dark Arts and keep walking to the next pull. Once collected i use the Arm's Length and previous mitigations as necessary while spamming the AOEs.

Just from running how I have been i can only survive with 2 pulls but never 3, i'm not sure if this is because I'm not mitigating properly or what since I'm usually with a decent Healer and DPS. I know I have seen other DRKs pull all the way so I'm just curious if i am missing something

From my experience tanks just take way more damage, I think the only tank that can still do it in most content is paladin because of how strong clemency is. Also I think warriors can do it post 76 with their flash skill, but it's been dicey even with it to be honest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corath

So I'm level 74 DRK atm and have been having a difficult time pulling the wall to wall pulls as i used to in Stormblood. I usually run in with the usual aoe openers, pop Flood for Dark Arts and keep walking to the next pull. Once collected i use the Arm's Length and previous mitigations as necessary while spamming the AOEs.

Just from running how I have been i can only survive with 2 pulls but never 3, i'm not sure if this is because I'm not mitigating properly or what since I'm usually with a decent Healer and DPS. I know I have seen other DRKs pull all the way so I'm just curious if i am missing something

---

Wall to wall pulling feels like a crap shoot right now. What I typically do is start with a smaller pull, if the dps and heals seem fine I'll go larger.

I've had too many groups where DPS don't even AoE when the first pack is 4+ enemies or where the healer just stands there until I'm at 30-40% health without even doing damage.

Pretty much if either of those are the case, I'd rather not stress the rest of the group by mass pulling. Healers can only keep you up so long when things aren't dying at a decent rate. Additionally, the DPS doesn't matter if you only get one heal every 15s. Just don't be one of those tanks that think 1 CD for a big pull is enough.

Yeah... it definitely feels like that these changes are more for punishing speed runners, but at the same time they punish everyone else that got caught in the crossfire...

its possible with all 4 to pull wall to wall
just depends on the team

tank proper CD management
healer proper healing and mitigation
and in general if DPS is good enough

Maybe you need WHM for the Holy spam? I think it would make your task easier if you get the BLM/SMN as well.

I was still using my 400 raid gear because it was honestly better until the 76 stuff. I can tell you, it HURTS to try it below max level. Now that I have my 440 gear, it makes it easier, but still a bit painful to pull wall to wall, depending on how big the pull is.

I can do it in the level 75 dungeon but I remember getting fried trying that in Holminster.

I've been successfully doing wall to wall pulls on DRK through all the leveling dungeons and expert dungeons. This has been in groups with players of drastically varying skill levels. Only time I have ever died was when the healer literally refused to heal me if I even tried a big pull, just "nope, not healing big pulls" and leaving me to die.

Basically all you need to do is make sure you are using TBN whenever it is off cooldown and layering in other defensive abilities as necessary.
Also, don't stop and do a Flood on the first group before moving to the next. Just tag the first group, hit sprint and go to the next. You are stretching out the actual pull which means more unnecessary damage and more chance a dps will rip hate during that time.

You also just can't wall to wall mindlessly anymore, in most of the dungeons there are trash mobs with interruptible casts that'll do massive aoe or buff themselves or even trash mobs that do unavoidable tank busters. You'll want to watch for, stun, and interrupt to keep them from melting you faster than you can sustain yourself and your healer can heal you. Things that come to mind are Berserk from the big Lizard things in the Twinning, or Niuahato (or however you spell that) from the living statues in Academy.

I feel its a bit harder to wall to wall pull in Shadowbringers so far (without making your healer want to strangle you or cause a wipe), but its doable if you're paying attention and know what to look for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Only time I have ever died was when the healer literally refused to heal me if I even tried a big pull, just "nope, not healing big pulls" and leaving me to die.

---

I had a healer like that, in the lv 73 dungeon. I wasn't tanking at the time, but the party group stopped for all of 15 minutes to argue between big pulls and small pulls. When the tank and the other dps insulted the healer, calling him bad, he left. We waited another 12-15 minutes for a new healer. When no one showed up, I told both of them they were idiots for pissing off a healer during the time when healers are the most needed in dungeons. I left afterward.

I waited a little over half an hour for that queue, and another 27 minutes for the next queue. Needless to say, I was livid.

Levelling dungeons are a bit different from expert dungeons.

In levelling dungeons, you may be set back by level, access to certain actions, and gear limitations/ilvl sync. I think it's best to start with a double pull and gradually expand on it based on your healer's comfort level, regardless of your job.

In expert dungeons and especially at max ilvl, you can very safely pull wall to wall on DRK. TBN is the crown jewel of personal mitigation, and when you factor in other abilities like AD, you're either negating all the incoming damage or healing large chunks of your health bar with a single cooldown. DRK was pretty robust in large pulls last expansion, and this time it feels even more so.

DRK has one of the best dungeon CDs, TBN. Always make sure to have enough mana to spam that bad boy, it is like a 25% HP heal every 15 sec and put less stress on healers. combine that with your other CDs to not get 100% to 0 in 5 seconds. Just dont panic and hit all your buttons at same time, if you get a mediocre healer he will keep you aalive as long you know how to rotate long CDs with spamable TBN.

But overall the dungeons 71+ do a lot of damage to tanks, the dungeon lv 71, for example, the first and second pull is really dangerous to go wall to wall (those white bears hit hard, I only do those pulls with a healer that I can trust) while the other pulls are easier.

Oh yeah, dont forget that Arms length is a thing now, you can slow pack of mobs with it and mitigate a lot.

ppl simply forget not being extremely overgeared anymore in leveling dungeons and even early expert roulettes.
Wall to wall pulling is really demanding at this gear levels. even if you can pull it of you probably used all your cd as tank and the next pull will likely suffer from this.
if you have whm healer things are a bit easier. but without good dps you are doomed regardlessly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inuk9

DRK has one of the best dungeon CDs, TBN. Always make sure to have enough mana to spam that bad boy, it is like a 25% HP heal every 15 sec and put less stress on healers. combine that with your other CDs to not get 100% to 0 in 5 seconds. Just dont panic and hit all your buttons at same time, if you get a mediocre healer he will keep you aalive as long you know how to rotate long CDs with spamable TBN.

But overall the dungeons 71+ do a lot of damage to tanks, the dungeon lv 71, for example, the first and second pull is really dangerous to go wall to wall (those white bears hit hard, I only do those pulls with a healer that I can trust) while the other pulls are easier.

Oh yeah, dont forget that Arms length is a thing now, you can slow pack of mobs with it and mitigate a lot.

---

the gremlins can also be scary... they hit faster than most mobs and harder to especially if there paired with one of the buffalos

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Unsung_Wanderer

From my experience tanks just take way more damage, I think the only tank that can still do it in most content is paladin because of how strong clemency is. Also I think warriors can do it post 76 with their flash skill, but it's been dicey even with it to be honest.

---

If I can judge at all from a 80 healer here and tank alt char... they really don't. Not when played decently, at least.

The main issues will simply stem from low party DPS, poor healer coordination with LD, and too much damage being taken mid-gather.

I do big pulls just fine as DRK and love doing it more than on my PLD. The reason is because TBN is on a 15 minute cooldown. So much damage mitigation from that alone.

To be completely honest, pulling wall-to-wall is really more of an Expert Dungeon thing, only to be done when you are outgeared for the dungeon. If you are in a leveling dungeon, you should not pull wall-to-wall unless everyone is sync'd down to that Dungeon. That way you know the healer and DPS are at max ilvl for the dungeon, and things will die as fast as possible (shortening the length of time you need to survive) as well as getting the highest potency heals and shields from the Healer. Trying to pull wall to wall in a level 73 dungeon (which can let you enter as up to a level 75 player), you're going to have a bad time.


For example, I won't dare pull wall-to-wall in a 71 dungeon unless I /examine every pt member and they're all 73+ with average 73+ ilvl gear, that way I know they have max stats and trash pulls will melt.

Two things:

1) Are you using TBN? If you aren't, that would help quite a bit.

2) Yes, outgoing damage has increased significantly in ShB leveling dungeons. Pulling 3 packs is NOT recommended unless you're with a Healer you know and trust until patch 5.1/5.2 when everyone is overgeared. However, as it is, the dungeon design mostly only allows for two packs anyway. And in the MSQ 80 dungeon, in general don't wall pull. There's already a large number of mobs in each pack.