Housing crisis is incentivizing RMT

Sorry. In hopes that SE gets the clue, here I am, piling on just like everyone else should.

I realize there's server strain but this is ridiculous. The way this system is at the moment, the only viable way to get a house anymore is to participate in under-the-table negotiations on Reddit or somewhere else, either for money or ingame gil, usually gigantic portions, likely RMT too since nothing else in the game demans the prices that flipped houses go for. A cursory glance at Reddit shows you how many people are getting actual, real money off of flipping houses and selling relocations and FCs.

Square, this is your doing. Make no mistake.

As it stands, a not insignificant portion of my monthly subscription is dedicated to a system used by players who are not me, many of which are RMT buyers. The depressingly ironic truth is that I probably spend MORE time in housing districts clicking billboards for literally days than the people who actually have houses.

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Originally Posted by RikuShieran

the only viable way to get a house anymore is to participate in under-the-table negotiations

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Here's the Housing Census thread, now you can move to a server and buy a home! All perfectly viable and above board.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nsus%21/page31

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Originally Posted by Edax

Here's the Housing Census thread, now you can move to a server and buy a home! All perfectly viable and above board.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nsus%21/page31

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I don't want to move to another server. I appreciate the help but that's ridiculous. I'm not going to i) lose access to every social circle here; ii) delete my FC; iii) ask over 30 people to pay money just so we can engage in a piece of content we literally already pay for.

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Originally Posted by RikuShieran

I don't want to move to another server. I appreciate the help but that's ridiculous. I'm not going to i) lose access to every social circle here; ii) delete my FC; iii) ask over 30 people to pay money just so we can engage in a piece of content we literally already pay for.

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Well, you have a viable way to get a house now, you just choose not to take it. If you resort to RMT, that's on you.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Well, you have a viable way to get a house now, you just choose not to take it. If you resort to RMT, that's on you.

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"Pay real money to relocate an entire FC as well as delete everything you have on your server" is not, in any stretch of the imagination, "viable", Edax. I think you know this, so I have no idea how or why you'd defend such an objectively badly designed system.

Besides, it fixes nothing. If every single person relocated servers to buy a house in a low-pop Realm, there would still be a housing crisis. There's a total of 2,160 plots per server. The amount of plots available across all servers in a datacentre, mathematically, not even enough to service 2 servers in a datacenter.

I'm also not going to participate in RMT. If that was what I wanted to do, I wouldn't even bother coming here to share my frustration; I'd just do it and then I'd have nothing to complain about -- probably take an air of "everything is fine", like yourself, since I'd have what I want. But for as much as I detest this system, I hate RMT (and those who perpetuate it) even more. But it is a fact that this system highly, HIGHLY incentivizes it. Just go to the FFXIV Housing subreddit and see for yourself.

In a pay to play game, housing of every type should readily available to everyone who wants it, regardless of server population.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Well, you have a viable way to get a house now, you just choose not to take it. If you resort to RMT, that's on you.

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Sorry but thats utterly ridiculous way to justify the system. Making people move servers is not a viable system.

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Originally Posted by Morlach

Sorry but thats utterly ridiculous way to justify the system. Making people move servers is not a viable system.

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Why is not viable?

vi·a·ble
/ˈvīəb(ə)l/

adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Why is not viable?

vi·a·ble
/ˈvīəb(ə)l/

adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.

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God, I was trying to be cordial but you are just being insufferable at this point.

Yes, it's linguistically feasible. Just like it's feasible for me to get a teleport hack, or a script that autoclicks the board for me every 0.004 seconds, or buy RMT. Less hassle, even. This is not a good justification.

But judging by your pattern of responses on this board regarding this topic, you'd probably say those are all perfectly viable options, too.

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Originally Posted by RikuShieran

Sorry. In hopes that SE gets the clue, here I am, piling on just like everyone else should.

I realize there's server strain but this is ridiculous. The way this system is at the moment, the only viable way to get a house anymore is to participate in under-the-table negotiations on Reddit or somewhere else, either for money or ingame gil, usually gigantic portions, likely RMT too since nothing else in the game demans the prices that flipped houses go for. A cursory glance at Reddit shows you how many people are getting actual, real money off of flipping houses and selling relocations and FCs.

Square, this is your doing. Make no mistake.

As it stands, a not insignificant portion of my monthly subscription is dedicated to a system used by players who are not me, many of which are RMT buyers. The depressingly ironic truth is that I probably spend MORE time in housing districts clicking billboards for literally days than the people who actually have houses.

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Originally Posted by RikuShieran

God, I was trying to be cordial but you are just being insufferable at this point.

Yes, it's linguistically feasible. Just like it's feasible for me to get a teleport hack, or a script that autoclicks the board for me every 0.004 seconds, or buy RMT. Less hassle, even. This is not a good justification.

But judging by your pattern of responses on this board regarding this topic, you'd probably say those are all perfectly viable options, too.

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If you really want a house that badly, it's there for the taking. I understand that it's inconvenient, but it's still there and you don't have to resort to hacks, scripts or other underhanded tactics. Your speech about morals or RMT is undermined by your hyperbole. RMT isn't the only viable way as you claim.

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Originally Posted by RikuShieran

The depressingly ironic truth is that I probably spend MORE time in housing districts clicking billboards for literally days than the people who actually have houses.

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What is even ironic about this? What reason would I, a homeowner have to click billboards all day? So you click billboards more than I do, so what? Am I supposed to be impressed? Boo-hoo.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Why is not viable?

vi·a·ble
/ˈvīəb(ə)l/

adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.

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You're omitting context. Is it viable under the technical definition? Sure. But a system that requires someone to give up their social circle, FC and pay 24$ isn't much of a solution. It only serves to highlight how horrendously mishandled housing is, and it's about time SE did something to fix it.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You're omitting context. Is it viable under the technical definition? Sure. But a system that requires someone to give up their social circle, FC and pay 24$ isn't much of a solution. It only serves to highlight how horrendously mishandled housing is, and it's about time SE did something to fix it.

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Still viable. Would I give up my social circle and FC and pay $24 to get a house? The answer is yes. With Discord and World Visit, I would never truly be gone from my social circle anyway.
And this maybe a controversial opinion, but this is the best housing system in an MMO I've ever played. It's riddled with problems and there might be better systems out there, but so far this is the best I've had.

I think we're getting off the point. It's not really about whether it is reasonable or practical to expect entire FCs to move server if they want to access housing (though really for any FC above 5-6 members, it isn't). The point is that the shortage of housing is encouraging RMT. As the OP mentioned in their first post there is a site where people looking to buy a plot can go and pay either cash or gil for it, usually huge sums. We also have people buying properties on all servers not because they intend to use them but in order to sell them for profit.

And a housing system that locks most players out from anything but the most basic properties, really can't be considered a success. FCs are in the worst position as they need a plot; at least players have the option of buying an apartment.

Every time this thread comes up, it's always about entitled players that don't know any better. If you are complaining about prices now and how it presumably encourages RMT, you clearly forgot everything about 2.1 prices.

https://cdn3.dualshockers.com/wp-con...singPrices.jpg

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Originally Posted by Morlach

In a pay to play game, housing of every type should readily available to everyone who wants it, regardless of server population.

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Not going to happen until there is a breakthrough with server technology

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Originally Posted by Mew_FC

Every time this thread comes up, it's always about entitled players that don't know any better. If you are complaining about prices now and how it presumably encourages RMT, you clearly forgot everything about 2.1 prices.

https://cdn3.dualshockers.com/wp-con...singPrices.jpg

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It doesn't "supposedly" encourage RMT. It encourages RMT and I've provided ample evidence for you to go and find that out. Though something tells me you're very likely the same people selling those dozens of houses in your signature for real money, at which point my evidence is probably going to be thoroughly ignored by you.

I'm not complaining about prices. I have 30 million gil sitting because there's nothing to spend it on. I'm complaining about shortage.

You're literally the problem with the system, but we're the ones who are entitled haha.

Kindly miss me with that.

Of all the problems with housing gil is the least of it, most people who want a house but don't have it already have enough gil to get a Medium, no RMT used at all. Hell I have enough for a Medium house and I don't have a dog in this race.

Plus anyone paying actual money just for a house in-game is both going too far into an obsession over it and just an idiot.

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Originally Posted by RikuShieran

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On "missing the point" ...a little bit, yes. Though when I said most people have the gil already for it I also ment if there were any houses for them to get. Hence why gil is the least of these peoples worries with housing.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

Of all the problems with housing gil is the least of it, most people who want a house but don't have it already have enough gil to get a Medium, no RMT used at all. Hell I have enough for a Medium house and I don't have a dog in this race.

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If you're replying to me, I think you might have missed the point.

There are no houses to buy, particularly in large servers. It doesn't matter how much gil people have by legal means because the only houses that are going to be available are going to be sold under the table for ludicrous prices. I've seen people ask for as much as 30 million for a small plot with an FC attached. Those same people are going to resell their houses for prohibitive prices, sometimes for real money and this isn't even a rare occurance if you go the rounds with this market online.

I wouldn't have a problem if the game was asking even 50 million for a small, so long as that gil is sunk. I have a problem that this gil is being funneled to a select few players who are, literally, being rewarded for being bad people.

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Originally Posted by RikuShieran

It doesn't "supposedly" encourage RMT. It encourages RMT and I've provided ample evidence for you to go and find that out. Though something tells me you're very likely the same people selling those dozens of houses in your signature for real money, at which point my evidence is probably going to be thoroughly ignored by you.

I'm not complaining about prices. I have 30 million gil sitting because there's nothing to spend it on. I'm complaining about shortage.

You're literally the problem with the system, but we're the ones who are entitled haha.

Kindly miss me with that.

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I'm gonna break this whole thing down really nicely for you.

The year is 2013. The patch number is 2.1

SE releases 3 housing districts with 5 wards for a total of 450 houses per server. That's a total of 30k+ houses for you.

Fast forward to 2019. Patch is 5.x.

Se has consolidated and reduced prices of housing... twice. Personal housing has severely reduced the amount of available plots for Free Companies despite Square Enix adding more wards and subdivisions to reach 4,320 houses per server. That's almost 300k houses.

No one would even dare to talk about how few plots were available for purchase when housing came out, yet there was a tenth of how many plots are available now. So what's the problem then? Surely it cant be numbers, right?

Oh wait... everyone that reaches lvl 50 meets the requirement to obtain a piece of land. Geez, that truly defeats the original purpose of having something that is difficult to acquire when combined with the dramatic price reductions.

"Yeah the bar is pretty low, but it means more people can enjoy housing" you would most likely reply.

Too bad some players enter their house only once a month in order to keep them. Also, there are people that willingly let their house auto-demolish when they could do the "right thing" and relinquish it right away. Not only is 45 days an extremely long period of time for something so simple to do, but they even warn you ingame and send you emails. I did the math on Gilgamesh and there's at least an entire ward and it's subdivision that are in a total state of limbo, all year long, due to those players who greatly take advantage of the generous demolition timer.

"Sure, but you are the problem" will you most likely repeat.

This has been mostly a one-man endeavor. These FCs have mostly all been levelled up from the ground by myself alone (how many have you?) and not a single FC member or friend has had to pay for any of these despite benefiting from the income they provide us. I've been playing by the rules and actually got rid of the single FC house I unwillingly acquired through a loop hole in the week following patch 4.2. Unlike the players I mentioned above, my FC actually uses all these houses. Therefore, how can we be the ONLY cause of the "problem" you are trying to describe?

Anyhow, if my FC can own the equivalent of a ward on a high pop server, surely anyone who tries hard enough can at the very least, own a single house. We all play by the same rules, some just cry about them instead of doing what has to be done.

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Regarding RMT,

By complaining about RMT and housing, you are inherently complaining about prices. Hopefully you'll understand as you start reading the following.

If you would actually understand how it works in relation to this game, you would know that RMT is being used for literally everything. Mounts, loot, gear, dyes, misc items, furniture, achievements, you name it. You could even argue those 999 gil teleports are "supporting" RMT. Point is, house trading isn't a pillar of RMT. Don't you think it's quite ironic how players are trading houses for 2.1 prices?

The better of two evil was that 2.1 price chart. Sure, RMT had to be partially used, but at least it took out massive chunks of money out of the game right away. Nowadays, gil just changes hands. Over and over and over... I would argue that SE's decision to neuter housing cost is the primary reason as to why you people are complaining. Too much gil in circulation isn't a good thing, especially if you want to actually counter RMT. Combine that with the very minimal requirements for ownership and a very forgiving house keeping system and you end up with the problem you are wrongfully describing as a shortage when the amount of houses as nearly increased by ten times.

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If you didn't figure it out, you wouldn't have any problem owning a house with your 30m if prices stayed the way they were.

I don't know if I buy the "encourages RMT" argument. The game is old enough now that much of the population has hundreds of millions of gil, all earned legitimately. The difficult part is finding a house available in the first place, not earning the gil to purchase it.

The people conflating any mention of RMT with gil, obviously have no idea what is actually happening as the mentions of RMT have not a single thing to do with gil. Nobody who knows whats actually going on, has equated any housing issues with gil. Lord.

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Originally Posted by Mew_FC

my FC actually uses all these houses. -
- Anyhow, if my FC can own the equivalent of a ward on a high pop server, surely anyone who tries hard enough can at the very least, own a single house. We all play by the same rules, some just cry about them instead of doing what has to be done.

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By the Twelve, your FC doesn't need an entire Ward for itself. No wonder newer players can't get a home.

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Originally Posted by Edax

By the Twelve, your FC doesn't need an entire Ward for itself. No wonder newer players can't get a home.

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Actually, we do. Btw, I explained the actual reasons why players that are looking to get their foot in the door are having a hard time, my FC's a drop in the sea in comparison.