Tank busters

Just a general note, but all the tanks now have a "block" skill: short cooldown, short duration, medium-high mitigation. This is meant to be used during tank busters to mitigate the damage, and can be used by the OT on the MT for the same effect.

DRK- TBN is your buster blocker, cast it on self if MT, on MT if OT. Pretty obvious. Always keep 3k mp in the chamber for tougher fights. Not sure how well double DRK setups will work.

PLD - Sheltron is literally your block button. You also have that holy orb looking thing to cast on the MT if you are OT. Can't remember the name. Also cover, of course, but that has a lengthy cooldown that will prevent it from being useful most of the time. All PLD buster blockers are gauge dependent, so keep 50 on hand during hard fights.

Gunbreaker - Heart of Stone. Cast on yourself, cast on the MT, same button, blocks 15%. Easiest use skill. No gauge or currency to worry about. Can also use your regen on the MT if things are bad enough.

War - Raw intuition is your block as MT, but as OT you are meant to use Nascent flash on the MT and very likely bust off some gauge nukes to maximize the healing potential. This is more a clean up rather than a mitigation, but it's all they have while OT. Would recommend saving up one charge of infuriate at all times during the worst fights so you can use that to heal the MT.

And the reason I'm posting this now is I get the feeling raids are gonna be /really/ harsh if you mess this up...

I still say GNB's needs a buff. 15% feels like nothing at times compared to the other meaty shields the tanks have. Don't get me started on party mitigation buffs like Heart of Light or Dark Missionary.

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Originally Posted by Valic

I still say GNB's needs a buff. 15% feels like nothing at times compared to the other meaty shields the tanks have. Don't get me started on party mitigation buffs like Heart of Light or Dark Missionary.

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Can agree with this one. As OT its a nice bump on the MT, but as personal mitigation its pretty weaksauce. Barely puts a dent in any big damage without stacking it with something. Then again I'm possibly just sploiled by TBN.

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Originally Posted by Valic

I still say GNB's needs a buff. 15% feels like nothing at times compared to the other meaty shields the tanks have. Don't get me started on party mitigation buffs like Heart of Light or Dark Missionary.

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It's a little annoying that it's 5% less than Raw Intuition. I guess they think the 2 second duration over Raw Intuition matters?

I'd like for it to be a 20s CD skill that remains as 15% reduction but also grants a 10% health shield. Then it could be in between both Raw Intuition and The Blackest Night, especially considering that Gunbreaker is ammo shield themed but only has 1 shield via the base rotation. Remove the interaction with Brutal Shell, even with a crit the shielding won't exceede much more than 5k if that which is less than 5% already.

Regarding Heart of Light and Dark Missionary, I have no idea what the intent of these are. In terms of raid buffs, they are both strictly inferior to the Warrior and Paladin equivalents, Shake It Off and Divine Veil (why doesn't this give the Paladin a shield yet?). If Paladin and Warrior are the tanks that raid shield, why restriction the reduction of Gunbreaker and Dark Knight to just magical?

Thematically, it would be nice if Dark Missionary restored health by 10%(15%?) of the damage taken. With Heart of Light, I'm not sure, maybe an Embolden style flat damage reduction starting at 15%(20%?) decreasing by 5% every 5s.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

It's a little annoying that it's 5% less than Raw Intuition. I guess they think the 2 second duration over Raw Intuition matters?

I'd like for it to be a 20s CD skill that remains as 15% reduction but also grants a 10% health shield. Then it could be in between both Raw Intuition and The Blackest Night, especially considering that Gunbreaker is ammo shield themed but only has 1 shield via the base rotation. Remove the interaction with Brutal Shell, even with a crit the shielding won't exceede much more than 5k if that which is less than 5% already.

Regarding Heart of Light and Dark Missionary, I have no idea what the intent of these are. In terms of raid buffs, they are both strictly inferior to the Warrior and Paladin equivalents, Shake It Off and Divine Veil (why doesn't this give the Paladin a shield yet?). If Paladin and Warrior are the tanks that raid shield, why restriction the reduction of Gunbreaker and Dark Knight to just magical?

Thematically, it would be nice if Dark Missionary restored health by 10%(15%?) of the damage taken. With Heart of Light, I'm not sure, maybe an Embolden style flat damage reduction starting at 15%(20%?) decreasing by 5% every 5s.

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You gave me a brilliant idea, why not give GNB a stackable mitigation buff like our dashes. It'd stick to the ammo theme by just giving Heart of Stone the ability to stack up to 2 times. Could maybe still buff it to 20% by itself, but keep its cooldown and if used twice it provides 40% altogether. Probably sounds OP but considering its duration, and that you'd have to wait a whole 50 seconds total just to get that type of mitigation again seems like it could even out. If they'd bump it 5 seconds up to make it a full minute, I wouldn't mind that either. At least that way it has some multi functionality to shield multiple party members or double up on mitigation. But yeah, I agree entirely with this post. Even if they didn't manage to find a unique theme, they should make the mitigation noticeable if not just good in some way.

I keep seeing people talk about how Gnb's mitigation is bad but looking at their personal options, it seems to me that the point behind their personal unique mitigation (Aurora/Camouflage/Brutal Shell) is to take care of the fluff mitigation, which frees up the heavier CDs combined with Heart of Stone to handle the busters.

Looking at it from a OT using their stuff on a co-tank, each tank is bringing a different way of handling the damage depending on the what the OT at the time is.

Drk- The Blackest Night - Provides pure raw mitigation, allowing the co-tank to us a minor/no cd to mitigate a TB.
Pld- Intervention/Cover - Provides flexible mitigation, allowing your co-tank to use a Rampart or some other mid level/no cd to mitigate a TB.
WAR- Nascent Flash - Provides effective HP that can be used to recover from/mitigate auto attacks and/or allow the use of a minor/no cd to mitigate a TB and recover the lost the lost HP.
GNB- Aurora/Heart of Light (honorable mentions to Brutal Shell)- Provides fluff mitigation to be used on their co-tank on cooldown allowing them to pool more of their personal mitigation to handle TB.

Each of these have their own distinct strengths and uses. If you try to use them to cover other situations that they may be ill-suited for, then of course they will underperform.

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Originally Posted by Yimiko

PLD - Sheltron is literally your block button. You also have that holy orb looking thing to cast on the MT if you are OT. Can't remember the name. Also cover, of course, but that has a lengthy cooldown that will prevent it from being useful most of the time. All PLD buster blockers are gauge dependent, so keep 50 on hand during hard fights.

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You don't play PLD do you?

While this post sounds well meaning there are a few things incorrect with your advice on playing PLD.

1. Only one PLD defensive cool down is based on your oath guage if you are MT, not all of them.

2. Cover should only be used in very specific situations and only if you are OT. It does not give any mitigation in it of itself.

3. It's probably better to use shelltron PLUS on of your other DMG mitigation cooldowns like rampart or sentinel for a tank buster if available rather than just shelltron alone.

I haven’t played PLD yet, but wasn’t block nerfed to 15% reduction too? (At least for now). That actually makes it no better than Heart of Stone. It’d be best to stack it with another cooldown, just like HoS.

Heart of Stone needs to be buffed to 20% IMO. Right now, it's pretty useless and has to be combined with something else for tankbusters.

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Originally Posted by Conando

I haven’t played PLD yet, but wasn’t block nerfed to 15% reduction too? (At least for now). That actually makes it no better than Heart of Stone. It’d be best to stack it with another cooldown, just like HoS.

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At level 80 it is 20% mitigation with the current highest ilvl shield.

Stop asking for buffs in HoS.

HoS has more duration than Raw Intuition and can be used in the MT. RI only can be used in yourself.

You can literally spam HoS in the MT all game with no punishment. No other tank can do that.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Stop asking for buffs in HoS.

HoS has more duration than Raw Intuition and can be used in the MT. RI only can be used in yourself.

You can literally spam HoS in the MT all game with no punishment. No other tank can do that.

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Do you know what Nascent Flash is? The 2 second increased duration is nothing when the intention is to reduce a tank buster. Dark Knight has The Blackest Night, which is defacto the best single hit cooldown. Paladin has Intervention, which can be boosted with their own cooldowns.

After playing around with most tanks, I think WAR is still the worst OT of all jobs as an OT. Nascent Flash is only a 10% mitigation and the "heal" even when saving up your skills for a "big heal" comes out to only maybe 15k or so heal which isn't enough for me to care about when my healers are just going to be ready to top me off after a tankbuster. I would rather have the higher damage reduced so I don't have to burn as many cooldowns than some "minor healing"

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Originally Posted by Sancho_Nyanta

I keep seeing people talk about how Gnb's mitigation is bad but looking at their personal options, it seems to me that the point behind their personal unique mitigation (Aurora/Camouflage/Brutal Shell) is to take care of the fluff mitigation, which frees up the heavier CDs combined with Heart of Stone to handle the busters.

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that is true but the issue here is A) a playstyle that few are used to which is more over time healing vs insta healing and B) a shield that amounts to not even covering a basic attack let alone some stray ability or boss skill.
obvious examples are Aurora yes it gives a much potency as the WAR's equilibrium but it does it over like 10 to 20s i think. the other is brutal shell which to be frank heals less than 50% of the WAR's storm's path combo most the time. ( the random crti and DH crit not withstanding) and makes that the shield, yeah you can make a shield that gets destroyed by a goblin fart and you still will take dmg form it. But i feel the biggest issue here is Camo, SE basicly gave GNB pre ShB RI but shitter. this skill would be a shit ton better by just screwing the 50% parry for a 100% parry rate on top of the 10% mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

Do you know what Nascent Flash is? The 2 second increased duration is nothing when the intention is to reduce a tank buster. Dark Knight has The Blackest Night, which is defacto the best single hit cooldown. Paladin has Intervention, which can be boosted with their own cooldowns.

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People were comparing HoS with Raw Intuition but Nascent flash is a good and underrated CD too. Especially using as a MT.

TBN uses damage ressources, and yes can be replenish but it also can fail, if you never failed a TBN proc you are lying. And the punishment for losing the proc is huge DPS loss.

Good thing Xeno just got his video out about tanks. Spoiler alert: He thinks Heart of Stone is one of the best abilities ever, and to think people here wants a buff, lmao.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQl9opN5DD0

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Originally Posted by cjparmen

that is true but the issue here is A) a playstyle that few are used to which is more over time healing vs insta healing and B) a shield that amounts to not even covering a basic attack let alone some stray ability or boss skill.
obvious examples are Aurora yes it gives a much potency as the WAR's equilibrium but it does it over like 10 to 20s i think. the other is brutal shell which to be frank heals less than 50% of the WAR's storm's path combo most the time. ( the random crti and DH crit not withstanding) and makes that the shield, yeah you can make a shield that gets destroyed by a goblin fart and you still will take dmg form it. But i feel the biggest issue here is Camo, SE basicly gave GNB pre ShB RI but shitter. this skill would be a shit ton better by just screwing the 50% parry for a 100% parry rate on top of the 10% mitigation.

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Don't hold me to this, as I only have Drk to 80 ATM, but isn't the cure + the shield roughly equal to how much SP/SE are healing for? Assuming that my understanding is correct and that it is, then this would be like SCH complaining why doesn't Adlo heal for as much as Cure 2. It is already well know that tank's combo based heals are barely a drop in the proverbial buckets that are our HP totals. So not sure what you are really expecting here. With a shield that we are getting in the same way. Basically goblins farts are their autos and that is, at most, all this is meant to mitigate.

Regarding Aurora vs Equilibrium, Aurora is a skill that you can put on others. It makes sense from a balance standpoint that there be some form of cost or weaknesses to it.

The thing is that they are different because they are supposed to have a different feel and different way of doing the same things. Otherwise, why'd we need more that one tank job.

It is why I have to raise my eyebrow at Xeno in the vid mentioned by Inuk9. He talks about how he doesn't like TBN b/c it has a cost that is tied to our DPS and if you do it right then it is a dps neutral. This is true but it is a defensive gain if not an offensive one. It is high risk but your reward is to have effectively the highest, nearly on demand, burst mitigation in the game that you can give to anyone and if you do it right then you are getting this for FREE except for the low low cost of however many seconds it takes to break it. People have been complaining about the homogeneity of the tanks and yet here is Xeno hoping to make them even MORE homogenized by ditching the unique part of TBN to make it basically Raw Intuition 2.0 and ditching storm's eye.

^ If TBN doesn't get broken by a Tank Buster. The group is lacking some major communication wasting long defensive cooldowns.

TBN and Thrill of Battle are the only tank Cooldowns that have scaling EHP.