Is Tenacity still a dead stat?

If so, what are tanks melding right now?

I ain't no numbers guy, but for endgame raiding speedkills, tenacitys never been a thought to meld.

For everything else though, its really up to preference. Ive never melded it so I've no idea if it makes a big difference, but melding anything is a positive dps increase so go nuts

Still going with Crit as no details on tenacity yet from what I’ve heard

Here's a quick and dirty comparison based on information the Theoryjerks have crafted so far. If you have 2500...

Critical Hit - Your DPS should increase by approximately 9.3%
Direct Hit - Your DPS should increase by approximately 8.8%
Determination - Your DPS should increase by approximately 8.5%
Tenacity - Your DPS should increase by approximately 6.4%
Skill Speed - Not quite that easy, unfortunately, as it highly depends on what Tank you're thinking about.

As you can see, Tenacity falls behind when it comes to damage when compared to the more specialized damage increasers. That's because it reduces the damage you take by the same amount. It will never beat the other stats in raw damage due to this extra bonus but, as you can see, it's not far enough behind that having some will cripple your damage output. The days of the "Tank Stat" contributing 0 DPS are long behind us, fortunately.

Another consideration is that self-heals from things like Soul Eater are no longer based on damage done and are now straight potency based cures, so now things like crit, direct hit and det no longer boost self-healing while it looks like Ten does. Probably still a minor defensive/sustain boost but it does make it a little better for prog.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Another consideration is that self-heals from things like Soul Eater are no longer based on damage done and are now straight potency based cures, so now things like crit, direct hit and det no longer boost self-healing while it looks like Ten does. Probably still a minor defensive/sustain boost but it does make it a little better for prog.

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The potency heals on GNB, WAR and DRK are totally separate effects from the skill itself - while yes, they're not affected by the damage dealt anymore(meaning crits+direct hits would be more healing), they became pure potency heals, like you'd see on a healer for example. They definitely can crit, but the damage of the skill doesn't need to be a crit as well since it's separate. Basicly, Crit is king pretty much.

As for Tenacity, it's a prog stat. It was used to progging Ultimate for example. It has its uses, just not for achieving best DPS.

Is it ok to meld it for the sake of damage reduction or should i just meld something else?

It's totally okay to meld it for damage reduction!

I'd never recommend it because I'm always a proponent of doing the most damage possible, but unlike parry, at least you're not griefing if you do.

The problem is that it doesn't even really work that well for the intended purpose of lowering damage. It's rarely the difference between life and death and it saving the healers a GCD is even rarer.

Just go crit and det no point in TEN

It's a necroed thread from 2019 ppl.

Necro thread aside....as a PLD what would I meld in Endwalker 2022 the Year of Our Lord and Savior?

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Necro thread aside....as a PLD what would I meld in Endwalker 2022 the Year of Our Lord and Savior?

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Prioritise Crit > DH > Det for PLD melding.

Tenacity is basically still the absolute last stat in the priority list.


It's SKS (as much as you need for your rotation to work) > Crit > DH > DET > TEN for Gunbreaker, Paladin and Dark Knight


and SKS (as much as you need for your rotation to work) > Crit > DET > TEN > DH for Warrior, the only tank where Direct Hit is the weakest stat, and should be absolutely avoided if possible, because of all the auto direct crit abilities it has.


This unfortunately makes warrior require a completely separate gearset compared to all the other tanks.

I'm actually Crit/Det/Ten on my Warrior. The most TEN I had was 1200 something. Now it's back down to 900 ish now that i'm 600 ilevel nearing my BIS

Which is funny...since my static healers seem to notice a difference from 1200 to 900 when taking damage. Which might actually be a good indicator as they would once use 1 oGCD to heal me, now they use 2 oGCDS to heal me.

Is 300 tenacity going to break the bank...not really. As I sacrifice ten for more vit sooo it's kind of a wash.

Ten is great for prog and a filler meld. Warrior doesn't really need SKS or DH so I just throw TEN in there.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Tenacity is basically still the absolute last stat in the priority list.


It's SKS (as much as you need for your rotation to work) > Crit > DH > DET > TEN for Gunbreaker, Paladin and Dark Knight


and SKS (as much as you need for your rotation to work) > Crit > DET > TEN > DH for Warrior, the only tank where Direct Hit is the weakest stat, and should be absolutely avoided if possible, because of all the auto direct crit abilities it has.


This unfortunately makes warrior require a completely separate gearset compared to all the other tanks.

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This is why I hate being an omni tank with warrior being my first choice...I can't switch to other tanks not without completely re-melding.

Gonna be honest, I don't know why tanks and healers can even use DH to begin with since none of their gear has it. You'd think it would be a DPS only stat like how Tenacity is only tanks and Piety is only healers.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Gonna be honest, I don't know why tanks and healers can even use DH to begin with since none of their gear has it. You'd think it would be a DPS only stat like how Tenacity is only tanks and Piety is only healers.

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Nobody really knows, but as long as Direcxt Hit gives us a bigger dps increase we will continue to use it.

And even if we can't meld Direct Hit anymore we will simply replace those with Determination, making DH inaccessible to tanks and healers will not suddenly make Piety or Tenacity more valuable, it would take a massive shift in encounter design for them to become more useful substats...maybe that is exactly why tanks and healers can meld Direct Hit, because their own specific substats are simply not good.

I think it'd be cool if they made fights slap tanks hard enough that you need to meld some tenacity to stay alive. They might be pretty set with their current fight design though so yeah, who knows if that'd ever happen.

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Originally Posted by baklava151

I think it'd be cool if they made fights slap tanks hard enough that you need to meld some tenacity to stay alive. They might be pretty set with their current fight design though so yeah, who knows if that'd ever happen.

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It might be something they look towards for future Savages, setting a "minimum" TEN requirement for a tank to survive. But that would be delving into the old Accuracy caps we dealt with back in ARR and HW that people despised (and with good reason).

I didn't know Tenacity was a bad stat I've melded it on all my gear since it was the "tank" stat. I have 1600 which is about a 7% mitigation which is not great against bosses but useful for mobs and DoTs, I think.

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Originally Posted by krislox

I didn't know Tenacity was a bad stat I've melded it on all my gear since it was the "tank" stat. I have 1600 which is about a 7% mitigation which is not great against bosses but useful for mobs and DoTs, I think.

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2 things, one 7% is hardly noticable, especially when you get unavoidable ten on your gear so you don't have 7% more than everyone else, it'll only be about 4% more than unavoidable ten.

Second all abilities stack multiplicatively in this game, and in the case of mitigation thats not a good thing, basically for every source of mitigation you have, each will be mitigating proportionally less. Ultimately you will still mitigate more if you have that more ten, but its practical impact will be completely negligible, especially with how overstuffed tank kits already are in terms of self sustain.

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Originally Posted by krislox

I didn't know Tenacity was a bad stat I've melded it on all my gear since it was the "tank" stat. I have 1600 which is about a 7% mitigation which is not great against bosses but useful for mobs and DoTs, I think.

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The question though is, do you need it? You might be slightly more sturdy however tanks have plenty of mitigation tools at their disposal and all dungeons are tuned to be easy. In a harder boss fight, the tank takes little damage outside of tankbusters, which can be handled by a cooldown. A warrior or a paladin can last an extremely long time with baseline tenacity and dead healers, sometimes even being able to keep their party alive as well. The only time the tank dies is if they mess up a mechanic and they get 1-shot. They usually are the last one to die and often need to jump off the ledge to reset the fight due to how little damage they take. You're better off just gearing and melding for DPS to make the fight end faster.

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

If so, what are tanks melding right now?

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Tenacity is a Semi-Dead Stat.

In SOME non BiS situations where you have a lot of DET on your gear and are far away from the next CRT/DH Breakpoint TEN can potentially provide a higher damage bonus to you that stacking the same amount of DET or other stats.

In 90% of scenarios however (aside from 1 singular Tier 10 TEN materia for Warrior) it is strictly worse.

In most endgame content you dont "Need" the tenacity to survive, as either your mitigation was enough for you to survive, or the hit just straight up kills you regardless, since the actual difference is minimal at best.

This is further employed by the fact that More Damage Done = Less Damage Taken, and while for a tank it is not a Huge damage increase if it means that 1 mechanic less goes off, that is already worth it.

as to what we are melding, Depends on the Tank.

PLD, DRK & GNB all have the Same BiS (if you are interested they are on "The Balance") which melds CRIT>DH>DET ;
WAR has a slightly different BiS (meld wise), as he has guaranteed DH's and melds Crit>DET>TEN instead as it is a more consistent increase.

(Sidenote: there is a 2.40 / SKS Meld setup for WAR which is technically more Damage [by 2 DPS] but it is not optimal since some skills start to Clip.)

I prefer Crit > Ten > Det.

the damage differences are minimal so go with wathever you feel like it.

As a tank i prefer more selfsustain above all else.

Paladins and Warriors got it easy they don't need to care they have crazy good mitigation and Selfsustain.
As a DRK tough i take anything that increases my chances to stay alive.

Heals can Crit and its huge
Ten gives damage reduction AND increase heals
Det also increase heals

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Originally Posted by Dhaid

its really up to preference

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this, nothing else. most people copy their preference from Balance so ten is just super unpopular.

back in eden's verse i ran with two statics as pld and did a little test. one of the craracters stacked crit/dhit as you do, the other was ten/det preferring.

i felt slightly more beefy. can remember couple "survived from situation where my cotank would have dropped" moments from prog, killed raid on both characters in about the same number of weeks.

TEN is bad due to how mitigation works in this game, but there is a pretty huge chance that it won't really matter.

In short, do whatever you want unless running in a group that has figured out a way to skip mechanics by burning the boss down fast. Don't really think there is any though.