Still a mnk main just looking for others who enjoy the job

So much negativity.

As fruitless of an effort it is, when I cant play the game for whatever reason I start searching the internet for people talking about it to keep me engaged. Yet no matter where I look from reddit to these forums all I see is people bitching about monk. And I get it, I am in no way saying anyone who is upset is wrong to feel that way.

Sure I miss Howling Fist
Sure I miss Steel Peak
Sure RoW was nice

But even without those things, given the tools we have right now as they are Im still having fun. Because when I can keep my stacks going from mob pack to mob pack it feels good. When I can dodge 50 telegraphs and still keep my shit going it feels good. The job continues to hit that itch, the fantasy I wanted when I started the game.

So for the sake of positivity if anyone else is still perfectly find with where monk are right now. Or if you trust with patients Yoshi-P will make things better then I'd love it if you could share what you like.

For starters I vastly enjoy leaden fist as opposed to the blunt resistance debuff. I couldnt as easily tell how well that debuff was helping me, like protect it just HAD to be on but with LF that next bootshine is like night and day. Also the hit to that oh so tender nostalsia button when it comes to enlightenment. Way back in the day when I was a scrub teenager playing ffXI I'd fantasize about being a max lvl mnk and firing off a chi wave (the era when DBZ was king). I was mildly disappointed when we got EF instead but now the thought of the legit chi wave in everything but name is something I cant wait for (still only lvl 72)

And that AF armor! THE BEST

I'm glad you still enjoy it. I love the MNK aesthetic and can't to try it again in 5.0

"Fun" is relative and subjective. For players who enjoyed MNK during SB, it's not as fun. Instead of being a nonstop whirlwind of badass going as fast as possible, you're much slower than before. For some perspective, with the AF4 job gear you're so slow that you need a full 4 GL stacks to match the speed of SB MNK at only 3 GL stacks, and compared to that you have even fewer skills for weaving but more windows of forced slowdown with nothing to do in those windows, which makes it boring by comparison. And you know what's not fun? Having to run ahead of tanks and pull in dungeons out of fear of our stacks dropping because we lost a tool to help with that, and the climb to match our previous speeds is slower and takes longer, making it more punishing.

Instead of lambasting other players for "negativity," maybe you should understand the constructive nature of their feedback. It's easy to write off a group of people as being "negative" and accuse them of "bitching," but the post winds up coming across as you just being contrarian so you can say you enjoy it for very surface-level stuff. In this case, you admit to not understanding if the blunt resistance down debuff did anything and liking Leaden Fist on Bootshine because you can visibly see a noticeable difference on one set of numbers instead of having to track your damage output overall, and then giving praise to nostalgia for Enlightenment.

What you're doing is akin to someone like me - who had a Street Fighter-themed wedding and adores fighting games - telling people to stop whining because Monk can now do a Hadouken, Tenshokyaku and the Spinning Bird Kick and having those is enough to amuse me. The reality is that is amazingly shallow, simple, and doesn't say anything about how the job functions in terms of its combos and how those feel to play, especially for the players who have been using it for end-game content and raids. What you're advocating for is basically appreciating something for its most dumbed-down, surface level aspects because that's enough for you, and that people are just being complainers if they can't appreciate it due to how the gameplay overall is affected in serious content.

I tried 5.x MNK with the skill speed cranked well above 2,000. It's still too slow, clunky and has severe issues, and no matter how cool Anatman looks, it's still useless in practice. If people are getting the changes they are asking for, MNK will be better for everyone. You complaining about complainers and putting others down just sidelines that and benefits nobody.

FWIW I'm still a MNK main and that's not changing, SHB changes or no. I have my own personal attachment to the job. However, I won't deny what other people are saying when they complain that MNK, in spite of some nice QoL adjustments, was ultimately pushed in the wrong direction which benefits nobody who uses the job seriously. I wouldn't dare write off their complaints just to grand-stand, nor would I make my own thread about it to be the center of attention when there are other threads about MNK changes here in the DPS role forums. If their feedback is addressed, the changes benefit everybody, from casual to hardcore players.

Like I said in my other thread.... I've fought for this job since Beta and honestly, with the quality of life regression, I just can't do it anymore.

If they change PB, even SSS as an off gcd would be nicer, I'll come back but it's just so painful when every single other job flows more. I played Dancer in story mode titan for a trial and it flows nicer than monk does at 80. That's a slap to the face, dude.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Like I said in my other thread.... I've fought for this job since Beta and honestly, with the quality of life regression, I just can't do it anymore.

If they change PB, even SSS as an off gcd would be nicer, I'll come back but it's just so painful when every single other job flows more. I played Dancer in story mode titan for a trial and it flows nicer than monk does at 80. That's a slap to the face, dude.

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Yeah a lot of people are saying Dancer is really OP. It's like a better RDM for melee DPS mains but it's ranged. But to make it attractive to people they just took a lot of stuff away from other jobs. I'm hearing stuff about BRD in that respect, too, and Dancer's buffs and Bard's songs cancel each other out apparently. They really ought to make them stack (and Bard songs too) so it's not as punishing to have double Bards or Bards and Dancers in a party during an Alliance Raid. They made Brotherhood stackable back in 4.3 so I don't know why this is so hard for those jobs, especially when their DPS output is much lower than the melees to begin with in exchange for utility. This would certainly help parties in Alliance Raids filled with ranged buffer DPSes to make the DPS checks, and is long overdue as a QoL addition.

See, my thing is I just want them to add Somersault and Axe Kick (the old PvP moves) as oGCDs (only because they already have the animations and icons and therefore it's cheap in terms of development cost, plus they look cool) with at least one of them granting a stack of GL. This one change would make all the problems wash away. It really just needs two more oGCDs where one gives a stack of GL and then MNK can get its groove back. That's literally all it needs.

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"Fun" is relative and subjective.

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Of course fun is relative. This thread was literally meant to find people of a like mind who have been with monk forever and will stay monk regardless. Ie an echo chamber.

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Instead of lambasting other players for "negativity," maybe you should understand the constructive nature of their feedback. It's easy to write off a group of people as being "negative" and accuse them of "bitching," but the post winds up coming across as you just being contrarian so you can say you enjoy it for very surface-level stuff.

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Description of bitching aside I do believe I set aside a moment to note that peoples reasons for criticism were valid. I do believe we all started playing monk for surface-level stuff. But your right. I play on the PS4 so Im free from the continued criticism of a damage meter. As a guy who stress about those things in WoW its quite relaxing.

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What you're advocating for is basically appreciating something for its most dumbed-down, surface level aspects because that's enough for you, and that people are just being complainers if they can't appreciate it due to how the gameplay overall is affected in serious content.

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Again, just skipped over the line where I said complaints are valid huh? And lets be honest here mnk's core gameplay hasn't really changed, we lost some oGCD's and because of the PB nerf a popular rotation that probably wasent intended was made impossible. But when it comes to trials and end game content we still possess plenty of tools to maintain our GL stacks.

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I tried 5.x MNK with the skill speed cranked well above 2,000. It's still too slow, clunky and has severe issues, and no matter how cool Anatman looks, it's still useless in practice.

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The expansion JUST started.

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If people are getting the changes they are asking for, MNK will be better for everyone. You complaining about complainers and putting others down just sidelines that and benefits nobody.

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People will never really be satisfied unless their class is on top. Yeah I guess I did complain about complainers because I disagree with the severity of their complaints which is within my right. The benefit was meant for those of us who didnt think the sky was falling. A battle against futility as is evidenced by the replies I got but hey it was late at night and I wanted to hope for a more positive internet.

From a more casual perspective and as a retuning Monk main from HW AND having switched platforms from PC to PS4 I actually enjoy the reduced "clutter".

I also don't feel slow or bored at all, but that may be because I've to rebuild muscle memory due to the platform. I thought that I'd miss IR and Howling Fist more than I actually do. And I'm very happy to have a solid AoE rotation now and not having the feeling to be a burden to the party when there are more than 2 enemies arround. Also a casual positive: No more worries about running low on TP.

I will start off no matter what I will keep playing MNK.

It is just that what they did with MNK was take away something (Dbl TK combo) that added an extra layer of skill to the Job it even added to the theme, a difficult Job to master but once you do your pDPS rivals almost anyone.

I love MNK and I will keep playing it but I also want to see changes done because I love the Job. I believe that there are even small changes that could be done to make the job feel EONS better than it does now.

Either way keep on punching on!

casual player here, never dwell deep into the min max stat or doing perfect rotation.

so overall monk is still monk for me lol. its still dancing with the bootshine skill, leaden fist is amazing, and it still play the same as before.

what i want to know is, is it better to use first of fire or 4 GL now?

Basically you stay in FoF for the majority of your opener, then move to FoW (GL4) when you enter your looping rotation. Once you have GL4 and about 1200 SkS you are able to sneak in 2 True Strikes while still keeping up Twin Snakes.

Also note our opener is now about half as long as it was in SB.

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Originally Posted by Saito_

And I'm very happy to have a solid AoE rotation now and not having the feeling to be a burden to the party when there are more than 2 enemies arround. Also a casual positive: No more worries about running low on TP.

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I'm always perplexed at the sentiment that monk didn't have AoE. Granted, I didn't play it in SB, but in HW it was my second most played job behind DRG (which was my main at the time). I always took my MNK in dungeons since I raided on DRG, and never failed to be top damage dealer. MNK aoe was strong AF. Maybe that changed in SB and I didn't realize.. But I've seen the complaint about monk aoe a lot over the years and never understood it.

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Originally Posted by stormiekni

Basically you stay in FoF for the majority of your opener, then move to FoW (GL4) when you enter your looping rotation. Once you have GL4 and about 1200 SkS you are able to sneak in 2 True Strikes while still keeping up Twin Snakes.

Also note our opener is now about half as long as it was in SB.

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WE KNOW. It's not a fun opener to play, it's extraordinarily clumsy compared to how smooth SB's MNK opener was and it's incredibly slow. In other words, it is antithetical to how MNK mains want to play the job and nobody likes it. I will also say there's more you can do with SSS in that rotation you're not taking into account but since the opener you keep providing isn't fun to use anyway the point is kind of moot. Nobody enjoys relying on server ticks and the loss of DPS uptime with Anatman to get a GL stack, and watch this be patched out like it has been every time a job had something like this players were able to exploit.

All we need are two oGCDs where at least one of them gives a GL stack and that will literally fix all the problems MNK has right now.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I'm always perplexed at the sentiment that monk didn't have AoE. Granted, I didn't play it in SB, but in HW it was my second most played job behind DRG (which was my main at the time). I always took my MNK in dungeons since I raided on DRG, and never failed to be top damage dealer. MNK aoe was strong AF. Maybe that changed in SB and I didn't realize.. But I've seen the complaint about monk aoe a lot over the years and never understood it.

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MNK had AoE, and even Howling Fist was a line AoE (this has been largely replaced by Enlightenment, which doesn't need a 60-second recast). I don't know who is telling you otherwise. The problem with SB MNK's AoE combo (the "Rockbreaker" combo) had a really pathetic single target skill as the second attack (One-ilm Punch) and keeping the damage up with the single-target attacks Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes made it annoying to use Arm of the Destroyer and Rockbreaker. They made it nicer to use by replacing One-ilm Punch with the AoE Four-Point Fury, which lets you keep the Twin Snakes buff without having to constantly break away from the AoE combo. Even better that you also don't need to reapply Dragon Kick during it so you can just AoE until the cows come home, especially now that TP has been removed as the Rockbreaker combo was VERY TP-hungry.

So in SB, your AoE utility was cut short by TP limitations and having your damage output reduced by having to deal with single-target skills that cut down on your AoE damage output. It was annoying.

I will say 5.0's AoE is a SIGNIFICANT improvement. It's now the single-target rotation that needs a bit of work, and unfortunately the AoE rotation does suffer a bit when you drop your GL stacks in a dungeon. Nobody finds having to run ahead of the tank in a vain attempt to avoid your stacks dropping to be fun.

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Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

So in SB, your AoE utility was cut short by TP limitations and having your damage output reduced by having to deal with single-target skills that cut down on your AoE damage output. It was annoying.

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It was just combination of voices throughout the years. Sounds more or less the way it was in HW, but I guess it didn't seem undertuned to me in that regard (like, the aoe damage was still strong despite having to use a ST ability in between).. At least, relative to that time period. Thanks for a more detailed explanation tho!

Even though the TK rotation was absolutely not what SE intended, it gave Monk something it hasn't had ever over any expansions. Depth. A new rotation. Not the same plodding 1 2 3 we've been doing for 6 years.

Then they swiftly removed any nonsense of that and we're back to 2.0 Monk.

Monk has never evolved. Greased Lightning 4 is barely noticeable, no new animation, no changes in rotation, nothing.

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Originally Posted by stormiekni

I will start off no matter what I will keep playing MNK.

It is just that what they did with MNK was take away something (Dbl TK combo) that added an extra layer of skill to the Job it even added to the theme, a difficult Job to master but once you do your pDPS rivals almost anyone.

I love MNK and I will keep playing it but I also want to see changes done because I love the Job. I believe that there are even small changes that could be done to make the job feel EONS better than it does now.

Either way keep on punching on!

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as far as i know the problem was, Double TK combo was Never ment to be a thing, much like previously we saw in Ninja getting a Really high skill ceiling Combo accidently due to some Changes it would have always been removed, but due to that its at a Skill ceiling which was never ment to exist for the job.

It makes little sense when taking Summoner and Machinist into account though, layering both With Additional mechanics While sat on highly busy Rotations to begin with and more, as far as i can see Summoner is lying on HW Levels of layering, but given their aim was to increase monks popularity, and it seems to have done nothing to aid that with every source still proving its a Underplayed Job, we may see some changes.

this is my major problem with it tbh.

Sure, SB Monk could be considered too difficult for the Average Player, this would have been a Valid point, if they hadn't raised the Skill Curve for both Summoner and Ninja Massively and Added Mechanical Layering Intense Rotations such as machinist, i'd put all 3 of those Above the average players Skill capacity, Keeping up with any of these 3 Jobs Mechanically and Optimally while performing Raid Mechanics is likely no small feat at all, and on a Average Player, Learning fights and not having the time to mindless Farm and master every detail are prolly nearing impossible to truely maximise.

they didnt Simplify a System, they merely moved the Difficulty to another job. which makes 0 sense as it trampled onto high populated Jobs Such as Summoner, which upset a larger crowd, where we already expected such gameplay from the monk, hence why its had a Smaller Cult following.

Do i want Monk to revert to Double TK, Not really, i dont think the fix is to merely Revert the jobback to SB for another 2years, but they do need to change something up.

Monk just needs something to spruce up its ST rotation up alittle add alittle more Element to it and to flow nicely with room to Optimise, I guess Monk will get changes, i cant see SE really taking the route of waiting 2 years, They can see its Dramatically Less played compared to other jobs and its the job thats been getting the most Negative Feedback. ( I reliese things like MCH Does, but its not a gameplay problem, its a Ping Problem on those parts, which isnt as Much of a gameplay failure as Monk )

Im not experienced enough with Monk to really know.

but i dunno.

i feel a good move would be just to move monk to a 1.5GCD permanantly.

Rework Greased Lightning to work around Success Combos+Positionals.

Rework Riddle of Fire - the Slowed down combat isnt really needed now we have nothing to double Weave

Make Fist of Wind and Fist of Fire more Impactful to make Buff Swapping more worthwhile for different parts of a Fight.

maybe implement a Riddle of Wind, Which Increases the Greased Lightning procs, so we can have like a 10-15second period of Just bursting out Tornado Kicks. With TK OGCD on a 1.5GCD... we'd see some Super fast gameplay burst on our Openers.

im not entirely sold on the Chakra idea either, but i dont mind it, just feel its a Entire mechanic Just to let u know to press a button. i feel like Chakra could be used to do something cooler.

i think it could work better then, If u could Proc Greased Lightning From playing correctly, such as Bonuses from Positionals+Combos, then for Riddle of Wind Double whats given, 2 Combos = 1 TK, on a 1.5GCD, Over a 15sec Buff on the Opener... i think it'd add more to that opening moment, it wont be Double TK.. but it'd be a Moment of Noticable burst and Will add that flavor of getting everything right to get that reward.

then if Riddle of Fire and Earth are reworked to both go along with this Fast paced Synergy, they could Fit through the rotation changing things up for Smaller Impact through the Normal Rotation.

back into Riddle of Wind burst window.

it'd give the fast gameplay, We'd See Multiple Rotations which would add flavor of being a Martial Artist, Which combo+positional Rewards to give that Combo feel to the job. Im sure Someone could iterate on the idea better.. with more knowledge. but it'd of been atleast a alternative to Double TK.

I do think it can be "fun" but not really for a long time. But keeping up your GL stacks will only be a limited minigame that will never outweigh the optimization and fun it was to figure out TK rotations. TK rotations were fun because you could practice on a dummy and get the rotation down, and figure out ways to keep it rolling on savage bosses.

Keeping your GL stacks by default with boring skills like 6 sided star and Anatman are just paint over an old system. Putting lipstick on the pig, as some would say. MNK is a class that hasn't evolved much since ARR, just now you have some retention skills. They took away your oGCD's in favor of some flash with chakra stacks. I don't get why people are mistaken on this feeling good. This means less control over your character and how they gain dmg. This also means windows for said damage are less controllable (even with a skill like brotherhood).

Ultimately this isn't good in a lot of people's opinion, and it lowers the overall skill ceiling and enticing stuff that made monk fun to play and optimize. There will always be people who don't feel this way I understand. I'm sort of confused how this is fun, I leveled this job to 80 first and tried to find fun in it. But removing Internal Release and making the class simplistic again didn't make me enjoy it.

Though this post was poorly written, I feel like the problem is Monk will never be a job I spend a lot of time on in it's current state. Being a monk "main" won't happen with this iteration, it'll be like a lot of the playerbase that has all jobs at 80 that only plays each class once in a while. I don't see a point in spending a lot of time on a job that only has a few optimizations and keeps GL stacks for free.