Thought on GNB's mitigation overall

The job itself is fun and of course I played FF8 so it feels just as he tried to make it similar to pressing triggers after attacks.

I think my main gripes are how the job's mitigations make... very little sense.

Camouflage is an obvious one given how crap parry is and the 10% mitigation to it. I'd rather they turn it into a "Receive 15% of damage taken as health" and then allow Heart of Stone to share the effect over to a party member by diverting the health you receive to that person instead. Making it a decent self mitigation but also a flexible party member mitigation.

Brutal Shell's upgrade feels... insignificant. I'd rater they just make it a shield alone that's based on the damage you dealt for the hit or they should raise the cure potency. Doesn't feel worth worrying about for Heart of Stone on someone either and likely will be gone from a basic auto attack before you can even apply it to someone else.


Heart of Light suffers the same issue as DRK. Magic damage reduction only. It's niche, a large one yes, but considering how we rarely know what attacks are magic anymore in this game(with Shinryu's magic green balls being physical for example), it seems weird to give us this when we can only assume what'll be magic. Would be better off if the made it similar to WAR's ability and made it a "sacrifice your buffs and give to the party" type deal. In GNB's case, it works better since Brutal Shell is an easy one to pop being the 2nd hit of our combo anyways. That or just make it more noticeable mitigation or general mitigation.


Aurora feels like it's such a small dot that the "mitigation" part of it feels... not there? I feel as though it'd benefit from being similar to a sustain potion you'd find in PoTD but not as potent. Maybe instead of 18 seconds, make it 9 seconds and increase the cure potency to a much larger amount so the increments you receive are actually somewhat noticeable. The duration and potency is still up to debate but right now it definitely feels like a useless HoT. Healer's have this make sense by having it to top someone off for little cost on their part, usually a dps or something that's not really taking enough to be worth it. We're a tank though, we need more than being "topped off" to be noticeable.



Superbolide being the last obvious one. It's a clear issue for having any instant high potency cure on you, let alone benediction and then dropping to 1 not knowing they were going to do that in the first place. They should let you drop to 1 but change it so you no longer take damage for 7 seconds. If the problem i that PLD is too strong, then let em nerf theirs a lil to even it out, but this at least solves the issue, keeps it viable, and somehwta keeps it unique because if you can't get healed high enough or at all in 7 seconds, you're dead.


Idk, thoughts? i'd like a little something for our mitigation to feel interesting or flexible. The Heart of Stone stuff sounds like it could be fun if they thought more about how to create synergy with the rest of the job using it. Nothing complicated, but something to go "oh here, I can do this for you... or for me.".

I’m enjoying gunbreaker so far and mitigation could use some tweaks but is pretty much fine.
Camouflage - Change it from parry and buff the flat mitigation to 15% or make it 100% parry.
Brutal Shell - Fine, is more of a sustained mitigation over the course of a fight. The most damage tanks suffer is from auto attacks and brutal shell over time will mitigate a lot of that damage. Don’t ever expect brutal shell to save your from death. Very useful in solo content, basically take 0 damage.
Heart of Light - Fine, most raidwide damage is magical. Very few instances of physical raid damage.
Aurora - Fine, same deal with brutal shell. Should be used on cooldown on whoever is MT at the time.
Superbolide - It’s weird, but decent. Sucks when you get hit with benediction or a bunch of oGCD heals right before it goes off causing drains in resources. I’d rather it just be the exact same as hallowed ground at this point.

Camouflage is pretty decent. It's 10% baseline, with 50% of 15% extra damage reduction, so realistically 7.5% average. 17.5% for 20s every 90s isn't bad, nah it's not worth on tankbusters but it's decent for mobs, you got plenty of kit for busters.

Brutal Shell is incredibly meh but it's free so whatever, would be nice if it was a little beefier.

Heart of Light, well not a fan of magic only mitigation anyway, especially when as you've said, it's hard to tell what's what sometimes.

Would be nice if Aurora was a tad stronger, but it's nice enough paired up with Camouflage on big pulls.

Superbolide is funny, love giving my healer a heart attack by popping it when I'm getting swarmed.

---

The mitigation kit feels a bit all over the place to be fair, with the free shield on your 1-2-3 and the regen skill it feels like maybe you're supposed to cover yourself with a shield and let your regen tick your HP bar back up, but then everything else you get is just regular percentage based damage reductions.

I think a skill like the old healer role largesse could be fun, make your otherwise nice but slightly underwhelming Brutal Shell and Aurora very noteworthy for a bit.

Camouflage needs to be 15% damage mitigation at least, feels too weak otherwise. It's not bad for what it is but 10% mitigation is not much and parry has always been pretty bad, even before it was nerfed.

Brutal Shell either needs the shield strength increased to actually be noticeable, or it needs to heal for the entirety of the damage it deals instead of just for a portion. As it is right now it barely counts as mitigation.

Heart of Light Either go with OP's suggestion or just change it to 10% damage mitigation instead of it being magical only.

Aurora needs either a large upfront heal or a larger regen potency. It's okay paired with other cooldowns but it's barely noticeable.

Superbolide is easily the worst tank invuln in the game. I'd be happy just making it an 8-second Hallowed Ground copy, though if we want to keep it somewhat unique... When first used, it begins absorbing any incoming healing for 8 seconds. If the GNB takes fatal damage in that time, they drop to 1 hp and gain 8 seconds of invulnerability while also being healed for the amount of healing previously absorbed. If the GNB does not take fatal damage during the initial 8 seconds, then they're just instantly healed for the absorbed amount when it wears off. It'd make it a good defensive cooldown, they wouldn't need healed much after it wears off and it would actually be usable as more than just a meme skill.

While we're at it, Heart of Stone should just match Raw Intuition, be 20% mitigation for 5 seconds. That 5% does make a difference when it comes to tankbusters. Alternatively, lower cooldown to 15 seconds instead of 25.

My issue with GNB's mitigation isn't that it's too squishy in itself; I don't struggle too much doing large pulls in dungeons and when I do it's usually due to bad healers. My issue is when comparing GNB's mitigation to the other tanks. Feels a bit unfair that the other tanks get so many strong defensive options while GNB (and to a slightly lesser extent DRK) are pretty much left in the dirt. I find it far easier to survive on PLD or WAR than I do on GNB.

Does parry even work against magic? Is it like block now or what? Also I think that's my main issue, a lot of the mitigation is "okay when paired with etc" but on their own... they're kinda lousy or not even noticeable. I feel early game we spam 1-2-3 enough but later on it becomes the point where you want to use your other combo or burst shot as often as possible. That's when Brutal shell should just be a bit stronger or something considering you shouldn't want to 1-2-3 that often as is or you'll overcap on cartridges. I guess it is just for auto attacks but even then it absorbs prolly a 4th of a single auto attack from what I've experienced in boss battles.

Aurora, same deal, paired with something it's noticeable... otherwise its a weird HoT, especially later in levels.

Honestly, I like how Superbolide's trade off is, I still say Living Dead is MUCH worse than it too. Just, needs something to avoid it being a useless pop like DRK's. At least even WAR binds the target in place (and itself) and PLD's can't go wrong. RK you can do theirs right and still end up dying because lol you couldn't get healed for all that nice HP you got.

Camouflage would be nice for 15% mitigation I agree.

My issue with GNB's mitigation isn't that it's too squishy in itself; I don't struggle too much doing large pulls in dungeons and when I do it's usually due to bad healers. My issue is when comparing GNB's mitigation to the other tanks. Feels a bit unfair that the other tanks get so many strong defensive options while GNB (and to a slightly lesser extent DRK) are pretty much left in the dirt. I find it far easier to survive on PLD or WAR than I do on GNB.



^ Also this. sometimes I feel squishy,sometimes I don't, I think it's because I was so used to DRK in SB being so damn tanky but I feel with my mitigation I never have anything that's reliable ASAP. Other than my 30% cd and that's more for tankbusters.. Rampart is still there but when that's off... I have a slow HoT that's barely noticable and heart of stone is so far in levels too. Brutal shell you won't really be using when you're busy aoe'ing with your party for trash, and again, it's weak even for it's probable intended purpose of just stopping an auto attack or two off a boss. Then of course Camouflage is on a weird cd and a weird mitigation of parry and only 10% at that too. I'd like something we get early on as a nice means to use in between our buffs for trash pulls as well as to serve a "goes well to take a tank buster" type deal. Camo being better would help tremendously with that since it's our first mitigation skill too.

I know this is random but a lot of tanks are forgetting (at least in dungeons) Arm's Length which applies slow on everything it really helps tbh and the CD is short enough you'll get some mileage off it.

As for the skills:

Camouflage: Good for trash, 10% isn't anything spectacular but parrying helps in dungeons, for TBs is where it's going to be weak, 15% wouldn't really make much of a difference but it'd help in a minor way.

Brutal Shell: The effect should be increased as the shield which I forget even is on half the time since it's gone in 2 seconds, but the effect to an ally should be 200% of what you got so it'd be great for Heart of Stone.

Heart of Light: I honestly think this is okay there's going to be a lot of raid wide damage in raids and EX primals, what the OP said though giving everyone Brutal Shell would be good too.

Aurora: I like it and dislike it I feel it should heal for more maybe 100 potency more but I also wish there was a heal upfront in using it too, other tanks have instant/casted heals (other than DRK) so maybe a 200 potency heal up front with a HoT.

Superbolide: I like it just I hate how many times it'll create that awkwardness of either A) Not going off in time due to animation lock, B) Healers waste Benediction because you used it RIGHT as they did it,
C) You use it and don't get healed at all so you're dead, I like how unique it is and I don't find it that bad but I feel like it needs the animation to be sped up so we don't get those awkward moments.

Heart of Stone: I really like this move but it should match WARs RI make it 20%, I feel it's strong on demand active mitigation and goes well with all the CDs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awful

I know this is random but a lot of tanks are forgetting (at least in dungeons) Arm's Length which applies slow on everything it really helps tbh and the CD is short enough you'll get some mileage off it.

---

Thx for the reminder, i didn't use it in my runs too, as dps u usually use it only on kb mechanics so its really easy to forget that the other effect exists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awful

I know this is random but a lot of tanks are forgetting (at least in dungeons) Arm's Length which applies slow on everything it really helps tbh and the CD is short enough you'll get some mileage off it.

As for the skills:

Camouflage: Good for trash, 10% isn't anything spectacular but parrying helps in dungeons, for TBs is where it's going to be weak, 15% wouldn't really make much of a difference but it'd help in a minor way.

Brutal Shell: The effect should be increased as the shield which I forget even is on half the time since it's gone in 2 seconds, but the effect to an ally should be 200% of what you got so it'd be great for Heart of Stone.

Heart of Light: I honestly think this is okay there's going to be a lot of raid wide damage in raids and EX primals, what the OP said though giving everyone Brutal Shell would be good too.

Aurora: I like it and dislike it I feel it should heal for more maybe 100 potency more but I also wish there was a heal upfront in using it too, other tanks have instant/casted heals (other than DRK) so maybe a 200 potency heal up front with a HoT.

Superbolide: I like it just I hate how many times it'll create that awkwardness of either A) Not going off in time due to animation lock, B) Healers waste Benediction because you used it RIGHT as they did it,
C) You use it and don't get healed at all so you're dead, I like how unique it is and I don't find it that bad but I feel like it needs the animation to be sped up so we don't get those awkward moments.

Heart of Stone: I really like this move but it should match WARs RI make it 20%, I feel it's strong on demand active mitigation and goes well with all the CDs.

---

Tbh... considering how it works, I thought entirely it was meant to put heavy on something that does knockback/draw ins. Now I feel stupid lol.

I agree with all of those as well. Actually, what about just making Brutal shell a 5 second 5% mitigation buff? And then allowing it to be applied with heart of stone. That way it makes heart of stone a whole 20% buff you could put to yourself, OR a party member and it wouldn't be gone in an instant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maneesha

Thx for the reminder, i didn't use it in my runs too, as dps u usually use it only on kb mechanics so its really easy to forget that the other effect exists.

---

^ this and I have 3 whole hotbars filled with GNB's skills, so I always struggle to find it when I do feel like using it @.@...

Is Arm's Length debuff slow? I thought it applied heavy, as in movement speed reduction. If it's the former then yeah, should probably use it more especially during big pulls. If it's the latter then I fail to see how making things move slower would help with mitigation unless it also slowed down their attack rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valic

Actually, what about just making Brutal shell a 5 second 5% mitigation buff? And then allowing it to be applied with heart of stone. That way it makes heart of stone a whole 20% buff you could put to yourself, OR a party member and it wouldn't be gone in an instant.

---

Defensive buffs are multiplicative, not additive. Using both then would be around 17.5% or something. Still better than what GNB has right now though, I'd gladly take that as a minor buff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaozurei

Is Arm's Length debuff slow? I thought it applied heavy, as in movement speed reduction. If it's the former then yeah, should probably use it more especially during big pulls. If it's the latter then I fail to see how making things move slower would help with mitigation unless it also slowed down their attack rate.



Defensive buffs are multiplicative, not additive. Using both then would be around 17.5% or something. Still better than what GNB has right now though, I'd gladly take that as a minor buff.

---

Oh shoot, I forgot that it gives it to the person as a separate buff. I was thinking in my head that it'd just make heart of stone's overall mitigation increased by sacrificing Brutal Shell rather than giving someone heart of stone AND brutal shell. Could make it that way though to convey the same concept and give the proper mitigation.

You guys really can't evaluate tank's mitigation skills in Vacuum, you need to compare them to what other tanks have.

First off, they all have passive Mitigation/Restoration: Blocking, Storm's Path, Souleater, and Brutal Shell
Then they all have Rampart and Sentinel's equivalence (with WAR's being juuust slightly better)
They all also have spot mitigation skills: Sheltron (19%-20%), Raw Intuition(20%), The Blackest Night(25% of DRK's max HP), and Heart of Stone (15%)
They all also have spot support mitigation skills: Intervene(10-25%), Nascent Flash(10% + heal from WAR), The Blackest Night, and Heast of Stone (15% + 150 potency Shield)

After that came teamwide mitigation: Divine Veil (10% of PLD's max hp, probably the strongest tank's teamwide mitigation, at the cost of requiring GCD heal to proc + Passage of Arm (requires good positioning for spot use)), Shake It Off (8%-20% of receiver's max HP), and then Dark Missionary and Heart of Light (both 10% magic mitigation)

And of course, a heal: Clemency (requires a GCD, won't see usage in most case), Equilibrium (1200 potency self-heal), Abyssal Drain (200 potency per target, extremely strong in big pull), Aurora (1200 potency total regen, can be used on self or target)

Then super cooldown, but I'm not gonna go deep into this subject because in controlled situation (namely EX trials and Savage raids) they are all pretty much equally strong and their limitation is solely on the length of the cooldown (and duration, in Holmgang's case)

Finally, they all have 'extra' mitigation skills: Cover, Thrill of Battle, Dark Mind, and Camouflage.
Cover, as the name suggested, lets you take damage, but without innate damage mitigation, its use is solely for mechanic cheesing (that I haven't found any yet in 5.0 content since it doesn't work against Fae Light in Titania EX)
Thrill of Battle, for all intent and purpose, is 20% max HP heal for WAR since the additionally hp recovery only works with GCD heal, something healers don't want to overdo
Dark Mind, a 20% mitigation, except it only works on magic attack.
Then finally, Camouflage, 10% all type damage mitigation and 50% parry.

So I want to ask again, what exactly is Gunbreaker lacking compared to other tanks?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mosaicex

First off, they all have passive Mitigation/Restoration: Blocking, Storm's Path, Souleater, and Brutal Shell
I concede this point, though PLD's blocking is pretty noticeable mitigation.

They all also have spot mitigation skills: Sheltron (19%-20%), Raw Intuition(20%), The Blackest Night(25% of DRK's max HP), and Heart of Stone (15%)
5% damage reduction does make a difference, especially when being used to mitigate tankbusters. No reason HoS should just be a worse RI.

They all also have spot support mitigation skills: Intervene(10-25%), Nascent Flash(10% + heal from WAR), The Blackest Night, and Heast of Stone (15% + 150 potency Shield)
The 150 potency shield from Brutal Shell barely adds anything meaningful to Heart of Stone when used on the MT, it'll break in a single hit regardless without mitigating much unlike TBN or Intervention.

After that came teamwide mitigation: Divine Veil (10% of PLD's max hp, probably the strongest tank's teamwide mitigation, at the cost of requiring GCD heal to proc + Passage of Arm (requires good positioning for spot use)), Shake It Off (8%-20% of receiver's max HP), and then Dark Missionary and Heart of Light (both 10% magic mitigation)
Not every fight has raidwide magic damage to mitigate. Dark Missionary and Heart of Light are completely useless in these situations. Mitigation counts for dungeons too.

And of course, a heal: Clemency (requires a GCD, won't see usage in most case), Equilibrium (1200 potency self-heal), Abyssal Drain (200 potency per target, extremely strong in big pull), Aurora (1200 potency total regen, can be used on self or target)
Clemency can be spammed in an emergency for as long as MP allows. Equilibirum is a really powerful self heal and Abyssal Drain is really powerful in large pulls. Aurora is a HoT, making it unreliable as emergency healing and only really serves as a tiny bit of mitigation mid-pull.

Finally, they all have 'extra' mitigation skills: Cover, Thrill of Battle, Dark Mind, and Camouflage.
Cover, as the name suggested, lets you take damage, but without innate damage mitigation, its use is solely for mechanic cheesing (that I haven't found any yet in 5.0 content since it doesn't work against Fae Light in Titania EX)
Thrill of Battle, for all intent and purpose, is 20% max HP heal for WAR since the additionally hp recovery only works with GCD heal, something healers don't want to overdo
Dark Mind, a 20% mitigation, except it only works on magic attack.
Then finally, Camouflage, 10% all type damage mitigation and 50% parry.
I admit Cover is worse than anything the other tanks have in this regard, so I concede this point as well.

---

Added my replies in bold, though I took out some points (Shared 20/30 cooldowns and invulns) as I actually fully agree with those. Honestly, if Heart of Stone was 20% mitigation, at least when used on self, Heart of Light was changed to mitigate all types of damage and if Brutal Shell's shield were stronger then I'd be pretty happy with GNB mitigation as a whole. I'd even take superbolide's lovely heal GCD wasting risk.