BLM 15min wrong?

i was thinking the 15min for BLM should of been Convert not Burst make more sense to me but what you guys think?

Should we see if we can SE to change these timers around or something?

No thanks. I like convert recast where it is, it means my MP wouldn't be dry all the time now.

I dunno about making the 15 minute ability Convert, but Burst should NOT be BLM's 15 minute.

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Originally Posted by Fated

I dunno about making the 15 minute ability Convert, but Burst should NOT be BLM's 15 minute.

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yea i no it's not even powerful it's weakish compared to most of the other spells if there going to make it a 15 min at least make the 15 min wait worth it i think this would need to be fixed but so far just us 2 that think that ><

imo Flare should have been the 15min abilitiy. give it a wider range and a bit stronger dot effect (and maybe instant cast) and it would fit perfectly.

I tried Burst for the first time today and I was still disappointed even though i read it's not that good. it just doesn't feel right

Meteor plz kthx

I agree, Burst is incredibly underwhelming. BLM's "2hour" more feels like Familiar from XI lol. Pointless and almost damn nearly worthless.

what Convert do to a 50 blm? i really dont understand it lol.it just consume mp!

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

I agree, Burst is incredibly underwhelming. BLM's "2hour" more feels like Familiar from XI lol. Pointless and almost damn nearly worthless.

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How is 0 mp cost for all spells worthless? yes you waste alot of it casting but in those omgwtf moments (which FFXI 2hrs were designed for) 2 well timed thundaga 3s were perfect, yes you may die but dying is a blm's job.

>_> If you're just casting it to do damage then you're doing it wrong. Burst's damage is modified by having LESS HP. In other words it's for use a dire situations when everyone's HP is low and you need that last 5% off the boss to win.

Not hard to understand.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

How is 0 mp cost for all spells worthless? yes you waste alot of it casting but in those omgwtf moments (which FFXI 2hrs were designed for) 2 well timed thundaga 3s were perfect, yes you may die but dying is a blm's job.

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He wasn't saying Manafont was worthless... he was comparing FFXIV Burst as a "two hour" ability being as useful as Familiar from FFXI.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

>_> If you're just casting it to do damage then you're doing it wrong. Burst's damage is modified by having LESS HP. In other words it's for use a dire situations when everyone's HP is low and you need that last 5% off the boss to win.

Not hard to understand.

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Have you even played BLM?

Burst hardly receives a substantial damage boost from having less HP. Rage of Halone did this once upon a time, it doesn't anymore. Think about why SE removed that. Burst will not save an FFXIV party in the situation you just described. The damage is not high enough currently for Burst to be an "oh shit gotta kill this now" ability. It barely outdamages what THM already brings to the table and those abilities don't have 15 minute timers.

Very wrong ><

Bring back manafont!

Maybe they should make it so burst is instant cast, and grants a manafont effect for 30-60 seconds? :D

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Originally Posted by Fated

Have you even played BLM?

Burst hardly receives a substantial damage boost from having less HP. Rage of Halone did this once upon a time, it doesn't anymore. Think about why SE removed that. Burst will not save an FFXIV party in the situation you just described. The damage is not high enough currently for Burst to be an "oh shit gotta kill this now" ability. It barely outdamages what THM already brings to the table and those abilities don't have 15 minute timers.

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What a silly question.
Have I played black mage. I'm not stupid enough to comment on a thread seriously without actually playing the job.
The rest of your words are lost on me from asking such a dumb question.

I have used Burst with 1 HP after using Convert to combo it off of Thundara, and even then it's damage was still only barely higher then Thundaga. I will not be using this spell much. Only benefit I see from it is its low MP cost. That's it. Worthless.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

What a silly question.
Have I played black mage. I'm not stupid enough to comment on a thread seriously without actually playing the job.
The rest of your words are lost on me from asking such a dumb question.

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So basically, no?

If you did, you'd have a clue as to what you're talking about.

The low MP cost and slightly -higher- damage is nice. Specially since it can be part of the combo.
Just because its not stupid high damage doesn't make it worthless.
So yes, I do know what I'm talking about.
You're just a fool who asks stupid questions.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

The low MP cost and slightly -higher- damage is nice. Specially since it can be part of the combo.
Just because its not stupid high damage doesn't make it worthless.
So yes, I do know what I'm talking about.
You're just a fool who asks stupid questions.

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I never said Burst is worthless, I said Burst should not be the Black Mage 15 minute ability. You clearly don't know what you're talking about if you are arguing that Burst is an acceptable 15 minute ability. It's not situationally useful the way almost every other 15 minute job ability is. The fact that Burst is part of a combo is even more reason why it should be an ability that can be used with some regularity. Are you going to argue that Dragon Kick or Steel Cyclone should be 15 minute abilities too instead of Hundred Fists and Mighty Strikes?

Why would convert be a good 15 minute since you're so hell bent on it.
THM whined and whined and moaned and groaned about not being able to recover MP like WHM could. Why would you want convert to be 15 minutes? That doesn't make ANY sense. Come back when you have an actual suggestion that makes sense. Then you can talk to me about knowing about the job.

I would HATE to have convert as the 15! >.<" screw that sh**

Also, Burst is seriously lacking in every aspect! It should be much stronger or have some sort of added de-buff effect or something. I really hope they some how make Burst stronger in a future update, cause currently its pathetic! I thought Yoshi-P said he liked black mages, so why is their 15 minute so damn lame?

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

Why would convert be a good 15 minute since you're so hell bent on it.
THM whined and whined and moaned and groaned about not being able to recover MP like WHM could. Why would you want convert to be 15 minutes? That doesn't make ANY sense. Come back when you have an actual suggestion that makes sense. Then you can talk to me about knowing about the job.

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I never agreed that Convert should be the Black Mage 15 minute ability. However, Convert would still be a more logical 15 minute ability than Burst. My suggestion in the THM/BLM section was that Convert's slot be replaced with Burst and the BLM 15 minute ability becomes Manafont. Manafont would be an ability that you use in an "oh shit" scenario to nuke down that last bit needed.

This change would also coincide with most of the other jobs' 15 minute ability. PLD gets Hallowed Ground (Invincible from FFXI), WHM gets Benediction, MNK gets Hundred Fists, WAR gets Mighty Strikes, BRD gets Battle Voice (very similar to Soul Voice from FFXI). The only one that is relatively unique is DRG's Dragonfire Dive, which is still worthy of being a 15 minute ability as it does a lot of damage and is AoE and could easily be situationally useful. The new potions and Bard's Ballad of Magi have made MP problems a lot less significant as well.

You can't increase Convert recast time!! because that would reveal which players fails at using MP properly.

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Originally Posted by MystinaValeth

I would HATE to have convert as the 15! >.<" screw that sh**

Also, Burst is seriously lacking in every aspect! It should be much stronger or have some sort of added de-buff effect or something. I really hope they some how make Burst stronger in a future update, cause currently its pathetic! I thought Yoshi-P said he liked black mages, so why is their 15 minute so damn lame?

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I remember seeing an ability on the initial Class Action/Reform List that was posted back in December that was to Manafont from ff11. Perhaps that was to be the 15min ability, but was set aside for perhaps an eventual level cap. Looking at the five abilities BLM got this patch, it's really hard to guess which of them could take a backseat to Manafont's "near-twin".

Ultima go.

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Originally Posted by Fated

I dunno about making the 15 minute ability Convert, but Burst should NOT be BLM's 15 minute.

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I think of this too! it is not like burst is overpowered or anything at all. I only see it a bit better than thunderga and nothing game-breaking. cool down shouldn't be more than 3-5 min.

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Originally Posted by ssppiikkeeyy

i was thinking the 15min for BLM should of been Convert not Burst make more sense to me but what you guys think?

Should we see if we can SE to change these timers around or something?

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I don't know about you guys but Convert is terrible! Blissful Mind is so much better and Convert should work the same. FFXI Convert was so much better as well. I hope they look at Convert again and make changes based on the community feedback. As for Burst... 15 minutes is ridiculous. I do the same damage if not more with Freeze...

It's probably bug on e dmg of burst, if it's not, then e 15min recast is kinda joke.

So yeah, looks like I was right about Burst being useless. Totally called this lol.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Bring back manafont!

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Man... peeps are all like "Bring back this" "Bring back that"

Why not just make it FFXI already and get it over with.
Just make this game exactly same as FFXI and rename it to FFXI-2
and there! problem solved!!
All FFXI fans are high as a kite thinking this needs to be an FFXI clone.. i mean c'mon peeps this is a different game,
please for the love of what is sacred. stop comparing already..

Seriously, I swear most the comments I read on this forum are people whining. Didn't blm come with some pretty neat abilities (convert etc) which addressed some of the previous complaints about the class?. I thought and are led to believe that thm/blms still are one of the best damage dealers in the game. Why is it most you guys have this all or nothing attitude with regards to thm/blm. Why does everything have to do X amount of damage (on everything, although I thought blms were meant to be wise to elemental weaknesses and plan accordingly) before you're all happy? Surely some abilities are meant to be situational?

Blms weren't the only ones to receive job abilities that weren't all that exciting, but most of us can see the other advantages to playing a job. Gaining one potentially situational/bad ability (burst) while still being able to use all the thm spells and gain convert (amongst other things) seems like a pretty damn good deal to me. I just don't understand some of you. I don't mean to offend anyone btw and I know I don't have thm levelled but this is just an observation.

Tldr; Why can't some people just be happy?

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Originally Posted by Sehro

what Convert do to a 50 blm? i really dont understand it lol.it just consume mp!

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It switches your current HP and MP values.

Use it after running low on MP to fill it back up.

Then try not to die because you have no HP.

Having to wait 15 min. to use an ability should mean it's doing something unbelievably strong compared to your normal low CD abilities. This is most certainly not the case for Burst. Are we supposed to be excited by the fact we have another Thunder spell to combo every 15 min.? I think they should think about doubling the base dmg. Wouldn't it feel a lot stronger then?

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Originally Posted by CrownedClown

Seriously, I swear most the comments I read on this forum are people whining. Didn't blm come with some pretty neat abilities (convert etc) which addressed some of the previous complaints about the class?. I thought and are led to believe that thm/blms still are one of the best damage dealers in the game. Why is it most you guys have this all or nothing attitude with regards to thm/blm. Why does everything have to do X amount of damage (on everything, although I thought blms were meant to be wise to elemental weaknesses and plan accordingly) before you're all happy? Surely some abilities are meant to be situational?

Blms weren't the only ones to receive job abilities that weren't all that exciting, but most of us can see the other advantages to playing a job. Gaining one potentially situational/bad ability (burst) while still being able to use all the thm spells and gain convert (amongst other things) seems like a pretty damn good deal to me. I just don't understand some of you. I don't mean to offend anyone btw and I know I don't have thm levelled but this is just an observation.

Tldr; Why can't some people just be happy?

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How about you main a job that gets shit on time and again. (Crappy 15 min ability, Crappy AF gear stats, Removal of all good CC, lack of good meldable gear, nearly impossible to obtain Sorcerer's Gear, Ifrit's Dildo, New BLM staff with garbage stats, crappy shoes, best pieces are fing BROWN, etc...) Then come back and complain about it so I can laugh at your demise.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

It switches your current HP and MP values.

Use it after running low on MP to fill it back up.

Then try not to die because you have no HP.

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Well basically I try to do this: Convert > Necrogenesis + Burst (To get a few more points of damage ) > Second Wind. I am typically back to full health assuming a WHM doesnt waste MP curing me thinking I took damage. (Call out those converts BLMs.)

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Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

How about you main a job that gets shit on time and again. (Crappy 15 min ability, Crappy AF gear stats, Removal of all good CC, lack of good meldable gear, nearly impossible to obtain Sorcerer's Gear, Ifrit's Dildo, New BLM staff with garbage stats, crappy shoes, best pieces are fing BROWN, etc...) Then come back and complain about it so I can laugh at your demise.

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I played Drk main in ffxi for 4 years, the class got nerfed to hell and more on topic I played Mar pre 1.2. Still miss the old storms path. But seriously, like I said I was expressing an oppinion. No need for the hostility.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

It switches your current HP and MP values.

Use it after running low on MP to fill it back up.

Then try not to die because you have no HP.

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See this proves right here that convert is fail as heck
It worked on red mages in ffxi because they could cure themselves right back into combat
with stoneskin and stuff

but black mage in this is a sitting duck in this unless a whm assists right away.

i mean im not gonna claim to know alot about blm cuz my thm is only 16 or so, but if burst doesnt do that much extra damage at low hp, and convert leaves you in peril I think we can all put 2 and 2 together.

Why would you expect anything more than Burst pre Cap increase?

The community is saying SE is stupid for putting a weak Burst spell as BLMs 15. Meanwhile SE is laughing at how stupid the community is because they seriously have no foresight and expect high powered spells like meteor before BLM or any or job has reached their prime.

Why is it hard for so many ppl to stop being overreacting hysteric masses and instead stop to rationalize what you're thinking before some dumb BS like this thread is posted.

Rationalize ppl. Quit being retarded and stop to think before assuming stupidity based off of factors that only the dev team are privvy to.

*huggles*

/inbeforethreadclose

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

See this proves right here that convert is fail as heck
It worked on red mages in ffxi because they could cure themselves right back into combat
with stoneskin and stuff

but black mage in this is a sitting duck in this unless a whm assists right away.

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Necrogenisis and second wind want to have a chat with you. The only way convert is deadly is if you use it with one of these two skills on cool down, use it while you have a dot on, or if you get blasted in the couple of seconds your sitting at low hp.

the last two would knock out a rdm in xi after a convert as well.

I will how ever agree burst seems a little lacking.
How ever i would leave it as the level 50 skill. 4/5 Job abilitys we got are pretty damned smexy. I am sort of ok with the lame duck sitting on the 15 min recast. It means that all the cool stuff we have can be employed regularly.

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Originally Posted by ssppiikkeeyy

yea i no it's not even powerful it's weakish compared to most of the other spells if there going to make it a 15 min at least make the 15 min wait worth it i think this would need to be fixed but so far just us 2 that think that ><

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have you tried using it with low hp as that increases the damage of it. Mine hit harder then my aga with full hp, I haven't tested it with low hp yet.