Silvertear Skies plot hole

Will Shadowbringers finally address the huge plot hole left by Midgarsormr? Ever since a Realm Reborn, one question has been left bizarrely unanswered: why did Midgarsormr call the Dravanian Horde to intercept the Garlean fleet? I mean, he was apparently okay with Allag and Mhach setting up their capitals right next door to the lake. Yet somehow a steampunk airship armada meant it was time to sound the Dragonsong?

I remember that interview where it was said there was a "presence at Lake Silvertear" planned for 1.0 endgame, but the reboot clearly dropped that in favor of Binding Coil and Crystal Tower.

I imagine that, if the crystal tower and the area around it is a consistent anchor point between all 14 world shards, they could just say he was protecting that?

I don't think it's a plot hole so much as it is something that just hasn't been explained yet...

Either way, yeah, given Silvertear Lake seems to act as a sort of singularity across all the Shards, Hydaelyn might just have called on him to do something about the Garlean invasion. Why didn't he do anything about Allag and Mhach? Whoooo knows... (Hydaelyn does, actually, but she rarely tells us much of anything.)

Do we even know how long he was stationed there? I kind of figured he was actually just there to keep the Allagan relics hidden; Mhach, as far as we know, had no interest in Allag. Garlemald is an Empire set up that specifically seeks out such things, and given the whole Lunar Transmitter plot, and how it related to Crystal Tower in the end... I can see a scenario in which Bozja Citadel "woke" Middy up and alerted him to the Empires plans, so he took action when they came knocking. I'd also like to think the Agrius was crashed directly on an Allagan Primal Containment facility, and that's how the whole "Now Primals are summonable!" thing came about. The Amalj'aa are on the First, which means they're at least 10,000 years old, meaning the Allagan could easily have encountered them in the past and contained Ifrit. Potentially holds for the other Primals we see in that old trailer too. Arguably he could have been protecting such a facility as well, to prevent Primals being released, but if you look at events; Garlemald came in, fresh off the heels of Bozja Citadel (which was essentially a replica Crystal Tower) and the only thing that halted their advance was the release of Primals. That changes the release of Primals from a "Middy dun goofed" if he was protecting the "seal" on Primals, to a... Questionable plan that almost payed off (or did, if you consider we have access to the Tower rather than Gaius), if he was meant to be keeping the Tower safe.

I believe the mythology is that Silvertear Lake is the wellspring of all aether though, and Middy has been guarding it since the dawn of time? Every since Crystal Tower popped up though, I've wondered about the validity of that legend... Crystal Tower was the center of the Allagan Empire, and the source of all their power... I can see that history being half-forgotten and warped over time into the mythos we have for Silvertear today. That said, I still have absolutely no clue what Middy was doing during the Allagan days... Or the rest of his children, for that matter... Bahamut and Tiamat got completely messed up, to put it lightly, and none of the other Dravanians have any history for that time whatsoever... Right now it's like they didn't exist until Ishgard needed a backstory... I hope Bahamut and Tiamat simply hatched first, and thus the three we're familiar with were too young to do anything at the time and perhaps needed dad to protect them, more so when you factor in the Allagan teaming up with the Dragon Murder-bot from Space around the same time too.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Do we even know how long he was stationed there? I kind of figured he was actually just there to keep the Allagan relics hidden; Mhach, as far as we know, had no interest in Allag. Garlemald is an Empire set up that specifically seeks out such things, and given the whole Lunar Transmitter plot, and how it related to Crystal Tower in the end... I can see a scenario in which Bozja Citadel "woke" Middy up and alerted him to the Empires plans, so he took action when they came knocking. I'd also like to think the Agrius was crashed directly on an Allagan Primal Containment facility, and that's how the whole "Now Primals are summonable!" thing came about. The Amalj'aa are on the First, which means they're at least 10,000 years old, meaning the Allagan could easily have encountered them in the past and contained Ifrit. Potentially holds for the other Primals we see in that old trailer too. Arguably he could have been protecting such a facility as well, to prevent Primals being released, but if you look at events; Garlemald came in, fresh off the heels of Bozja Citadel (which was essentially a replica Crystal Tower) and the only thing that halted their advance was the release of Primals. That changes the release of Primals from a "Middy dun goofed" if he was protecting the "seal" on Primals, to a... Questionable plan that almost payed off (or did, if you consider we have access to the Tower rather than Gaius), if he was meant to be keeping the Tower safe.

I believe the mythology is that Silvertear Lake is the wellspring of all aether though, and Middy has been guarding it since the dawn of time? Every since Crystal Tower popped up though, I've wondered about the validity of that legend... Crystal Tower was the center of the Allagan Empire, and the source of all their power... I can see that history being half-forgotten and warped over time into the mythos we have for Silvertear today. That said, I still have absolutely no clue what Middy was doing during the Allagan days... Or the rest of his children, for that matter... Bahamut and Tiamat got completely messed up, to put it lightly, and none of the other Dravanians have any history for that time whatsoever... Right now it's like they didn't exist until Ishgard needed a backstory... I hope Bahamut and Tiamat simply hatched first, and thus the three we're familiar with were too young to do anything at the time and perhaps needed dad to protect them, more so when you factor in the Allagan teaming up with the Dragon Murder-bot from Space around the same time too.

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Silvertear itself is important enough that Hydaelyn forged a covenant with an alien entity to grant him and his brood a haven in exchange for protecting the seal over the lake. The lake matters, the question is why it contains such an enormous amount of aether and has at least since Nophica's mythos developed.

The short version is that it is not a plot hole. Midgard has some kind of covenant to protect Silvertear Lake specifically, as the font of aether. We also know that Allag and dragons absolutely did clash in the past and while we don’t have specifics as to those events, we have seen some of the results of it.

Idk how to address the Mhach bit as I’ve no knowledge of Mhach ever intruding upon the Lake proper.

As for Garlemald, we can assume several things. We know now that ascians are involved in the empire this time as well, even if we do not assume that Hyd didn’t ask him to or he wasn’t aware of Ascian involvement whom he would arguably have a bone to pick with due to the drama with Bahamut, it was a massive dreadnaught so dangerous that destroying it turned Mor Dhona into a wasteland. It’s possible he could simply detect the threat to the balance it presented and decided to act accordingly.

What makes you think Midgardsormr could have stopped the Allagans from setting up wherever they wanted?

The aetherial seal at silvertear lake prevented primals from being summoned so it couldn't have existed during the allagan era when summoning was rampant. It's possible the seal was created by Hydaelyn afterwards to prevent the summoning of Primals & that she stationed Middy there to keep watch.


I've also been curious as to why Allag never fought with Dragons in Dravania When Allag center of power was the continent of Aldenard, since if they had fought there is no way Hraesvelgr & Nidhogg would have escaped allag without being killed or captured. so I can only assume that they weren't living in dravania at that point.
Given their Norse names I'm assuming they would have lived in either northern Ilsabard (which is unlikely given that Allag also ruled Ilsabard) or possibly Aerslaent (Ancenstral home of the Roegadyn). Though I'm honestly not sure whether Allag had Aerslaent as well, if they had then maybe there is another land further north of the 3 great continents they hadn't bothered to conquer.

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Originally Posted by Leaf_Dragoon

The aetherial seal at silvertear lake prevented primals from being summoned so it couldn't have existed during the allagan era when summoning was rampant.

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That's the main reason I don't think it actually was a seal, it was just Allag doing what they do best; Sealing Primals. They had Bahamut off in a space station, the Warring Triad up in Azys Lla, and Tiamat warns us that there are many more Primals sealed away by the Allagan elsewhere, yet were do we ever encounter this? Perhaps Odin and Eureka can factor into that, but still... Given the proximity to Crystal Tower, the heart of the Allagan Empire, it makes sense to me that there'd be a FFVI style Magitek Research Facility nearby containing (sealing) many other Primals.

It's entirely possible Hydaelyn sealed them away, but that creates more questions IMO; How did She seal them? Why hasn't She sealed them again? Meanwhile, we know the Allagan went on a Primal sealing frenzy. We know their capital was at Silvertear. It just fits.

Perhaps it's just the trailer being abstract, but what we see also implies to me that Ifrit and Titan (the only two we clearly see IIRC) themselves were sealed there; Physical Primals were sealed there, rather than the seal being some sort of off-switch on summoning.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Silvertear itself is important enough that Hydaelyn forged a covenant with an alien entity to grant him and his brood a haven in exchange for protecting the seal over the lake.

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My only issue with this is that he didn't protect the Lake... He seemingly let the Allagan set up shop right there, and he out right nuked any "seal" that was in place there with the Agrius... He attacked the Garleans why? What knowledge of any "seal" did they have? Their motivation was purely driven by conquest, with a side helping of digging up and copying Allagan technology. The biggest Allagan find being buried right next to the Lake... The biggest Allagan find the Garleans already attempted to recreate at Bozja Citadel... Heck, Crystal Tower was even sealed in its own little time bubble by Amon...

It all just fits in my mind, meanwhile everything else just seems like myth. There are enough connections with Silvertear, the Allagan, and Garlemald, and even Primals. Meanwhile this mythical seal, this wellspring of aether? It's never been explored in the slightest, while alternative explanations pile up...

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Originally Posted by Floortank

What makes you think Midgardsormr could have stopped the Allagans from setting up wherever they wanted?

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If it was his job to protect the Lake because of "reasons", then I expect him to have at least tried to stop the Allagan. Instead we have absolutely no account of that, so I guess he just failed quietly? Then he failed once again when he nuked the seal in 1.0s trailer? Then he gives us sass in 2.5?

Nah, I don't buy that... I think his covenant with Hydaelyn effectively made him the first Warrior of Light, so he had to take cryptic orders from Hydaelyn like we have (also grants him significant WoL-seniority to explain how he could seal our Blessing). He wasn't guarding the Lake for every era, that simply became his new job after the Allagan Empire fell, and a failure to record history between Calamities resulted in the mythology we currently have. He has "always guarded the Lake", because there was no recorded history post-Calamity. Silvertear is the "wellspring of all aether" because... It was important at some point, right? Yes, when it was the center of the Allagan Empire, when Crystal Tower was the "wellspring" of the entire Empires energy needs...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Nah, I don't buy that... I think his covenant with Hydaelyn effectively made him the first Warrior of Light, so he had to take cryptic orders from Hydaelyn like we have (also grants him significant WoL-seniority to explain how he could seal our Blessing). He wasn't guarding the Lake for every era, that simply became his new job after the Allagan Empire fell, and a failure to record history between Calamities resulted in the mythology we currently have. He has "always guarded the Lake", because there was no recorded history post-Calamity. Silvertear is the "wellspring of all aether" because... It was important at some point, right? Yes, when it was the center of the Allagan Empire, when Crystal Tower was the "wellspring" of the entire Empires energy needs...

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While I understand the point you are making here, remember that there is apparently a similar myth regarding 'The Source', Silvertear lake's analogue on the First, also being the wellspring of aether for the world. If 2 different histories and societies define very similar mythos in a fantasy setting like ours, it begs to contain some element of truth regarding the nature of the world no?

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

While I understand the point you are making here, remember that there is apparently a similar myth regarding 'The Source', Silvertear lake's analogue on the First, also being the wellspring of aether for the world. If 2 different histories and societies define very similar mythos in a fantasy setting like ours, it begs to contain some element of truth regarding the nature of the world no?

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Well, my current theory, based on the latest trailer, is that Eorzea (and its Shard equivalents) was the location of the first summoning, and subsequent Sundering when Hydaelyn and Zodiark fell out. It's the epicenter of everything, it's retained some mythological importance across all Shards as a result of that. I believe even the Ascians hold Eorzea in some higher regard than the rest of the world? So yes, there must be some other reason for that.

Now, that perhaps debunks my own Allagan/Crystal Tower theory, but... How do people on the Source remember anything? So far there's no reason to believe the First has experienced Calamities, it should have had a fairly typical history. Naturally the memory from the Sundering should carry on in some form (there are even cave paintings detailing it) so they have plenty with which to paint mythology with. The Source though, it gets hard resets on its civilizations with every Rejoining. How does Eorzea remember that Silvertear holds any significance with that happening? Simple, it's remembered as an important site, not because the details are remembered, but because civilizations keep setting up there. Why did the Allagan set up shop there? Because of a vague memory from a previous era that the area held significance. Why did the Mhach set up nearby? Given their ties to Voidsent, I could see that being a large factor given the Allagan set up a massive Voidgate to open there. Now, we remember it as being important because it was important to those civilizations that we barely remember, but do we remember why they found it important? Not really, so we make that up, and in a world of magic and aether? Naturally those are the go-tos for myth.

Midgard was there before the Allagans, at least, because Bahamut was one of his brood in eggs that traveled with him. That means the covenant with Hydaelyn was in place before the Allagan Empire. The empire didn't encounter Primals until it invaded Meracydia though, after it defeated the dragons living there. That means, the seal only affected the Eorzea continent. This makes sense though that there would be a seal, due to the high volume of aether that the continent has compared to the other continents, it makes it much easier to summon Primals as a result. I'm not sure why Midgard wasn't roused to respond though, maybe he was worried about the strength of the empire and thought discretion was the better option, given what had happened to his children in Meracydia.

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Originally Posted by Temperjoke

Midgard was there before the Allagans, at least, because Bahamut was one of his brood in eggs that traveled with him. That means the covenant with Hydaelyn was in place before the Allagan Empire. The empire didn't encounter Primals until it invaded Meracydia though, after it defeated the dragons living there. That means, the seal only affected the Eorzea continent. This makes sense though that there would be a seal, due to the high volume of aether that the continent has compared to the other continents, it makes it much easier to summon Primals as a result. I'm not sure why Midgard wasn't roused to respond though, maybe he was worried about the strength of the empire and thought discretion was the better option, given what had happened to his children in Meracydia.

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He was there far enough back that the eggs of Bahamut and Tiamat could hatch, for them to mature enough to fly to Meracydia, start their own brood, and for that brood to spread and sire their own children until there were enough dragons later to summon Bahamut and for those dragons to be old enough that they gave rise to the diversity we can see in Azys Lla. All before Allag's invasion.

Why Middy broke the seal on Silvertear by willingly killing himself to stop the Garleans is probably going to be eternally unknown given his state after the events of Sigmascape(Or was it after Chaos? I can't remember.), but the power of the lake predates any known civilization. Who knows, maybe the Heart of Sabik is relevant and will finally be explained now that we're getting information on a pre-Sundering civilization.

Just clarifying a couple things up:

1. Midgardsormr went inactive after the fight in Sigmascape, having used up all his energy to free the Warrior of Light from Omega.

2. Midgardsormr did not go on a suicide mission against the Imperial air force. It wasn't even a mutual kill. Midgardsormr actually defeated the Agrius; were it not for his prideful desire to show off by coiling around it and roaring, he would have been fine - it was the ceruleum tanks exploding shortly post-victory (while he was coiled around the ship) that did him in.

And by "did him in" we mean "he decided to have a two-decade long nap". Which for a being millenia old probably isn't worth even considering a set-back.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

If it was his job to protect the Lake because of "reasons", then I expect him to have at least tried to stop the Allagan. Instead we have absolutely no account of that, so I guess he just failed quietly? Then he failed once again when he nuked the seal in 1.0s trailer?

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Whether he tried or not is immaterial to your claim, which is that he arbitrarily decided to stop the Garleans, but not the Allagan or the Mhach, from setting up near Silvertear. You say it's a plot hole, but it's not.

1) He couldn't have stopped the Allagan Empire from moving onto Silvertear Lake. Whether he tried to or not doesn't matter. The Garlean fleet is a bunch of mere toys compared to Allagan weaponry; he got KO'd by ceruleum engines on accident / the Allagans had way more sophisticated, dangerous, and powerful weaponry than the side effects of an explosion. Yes, he probably failed or couldn't do anything about it. That's not a plot hole.

2) The Mhachi weren't threatening the world by moving into the vicinity, so he didn't need to attack them. Nor does Rowena threaten the lake by setting up shop near it. If there's not an actual threat to the font of aether in the lake, then he's not going to react.

Do we know if Bahamut was ever chained up real bad like Tiamat was? Since If you go talk to a node in Azys La says a second dragon was bound really good like Tiamat was broke free and then seemingly said screw this I'm out of here. They just don't give a name to said other dragon. Also wasn't Midgardsormr also asleep cause I mean what else you going to do while you're watching over a lake full of aether until the Garleans? We don't know exactly when he started guarding Silver Tear and if he was still in need of recovery after his fight with Omega and then a long space flight.

Bahamut was killed in Mercydia. Tiamat later summoned him as a Primal at the behest of the Ascians.

I would be very interested in knowing what Node in Azys Lla says that another dragon escaped from Azys Lla.

So far... we have no idea what Midgardsormr was doing during the time of the Allagan Empire.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Whether he tried or not is immaterial to your claim, which is that he arbitrarily decided to stop the Garleans, but not the Allagan or the Mhach, from setting up near Silvertear. You say it's a plot hole, but it's not.

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OP claimed it was a plot hole, I've done nothing of the sort. I've simply pointed out that it's an odd gap in our understanding of events.

Heck, I'm pretty sure I've claimed the exact opposite that he "arbitrarily decided to stop the Garleans", I've given what I think is his reasoning for stopping them, and why he did nothing with the Allagan or Mhach; He was keeping Crystal Tower safe. Crystal Tower was built by the Allagans, ergo he had no reason to protect it during their reign, only after it sunk away and was sealed in a little time bubble did it need guarding. The Mhach had seemingly no interest in Allagan technology. Garlemald? They straight up attempted to recreate Crystal Tower with Bozja Citadel, then flew on into Mor Dhona? Yeah, there is clear intention there and reason to act on Middys part, IMO.

That's my interpretation of events based on the information we have (and my reluctance to take mythos as fact). The information we have that suggests he was guarding the Lake during the Allagans reign is none existent as it currently stands (again, except for mythos). There is absolutely zero mention of him, no indication of any fight, no indication he did anything during that time. It's not a plot hole, it's simply missing information. Oddly missing information given how much we've delved into that history at this point. Shadowbringers could fill in some of those gaps and completely debunk my theory, but until then?

If there's anything resembling a plot hole, I'd say it's the idea that he was protecting a seal on Primals at Silvertear, when he catastrophically failed to do that. Again though, I don't think that's what he was protecting, and I'm more incline to think releasing Primals was an intentional act. He wanted to stop Garlemalds advance, and releasing Primals did exactly that... At least it did for a while...

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Bahamut was killed in Mercydia. Tiamat later summoned him as a Primal at the behest of the Ascians.

I would be very interested in knowing what Node in Azys Lla says that another dragon escaped from Azys Lla.

So far... we have no idea what Midgardsormr was doing during the time of the Allagan Empire.

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I believe they may be referring to this snip of info from Gilly when it was taking us around Azys Lla:

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Originally Posted by Guidance System

<blip> I regret to inform you that the matter conduit leading to the Flagship is no longer functioning.
According to my records, it was destroyed by a dragon, which broke free of its restraints when they failed approximately two thousand three hundred and sixty-nine years, one month, twenty-four days, seven hours and four minutes ago.
Please find an alternate route to the Aetherochemical Research Facility. The Allagan Research Council apologizes for any inconvenience caused.

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But we have no idea if this means another of the First Brood, or just some random Meracydian. Remember that before Cid breaks it, Azys Lla was covered by an one of Allag's most powerful barriers, and we have no reason to assume it didn't work both ways.
Of course they may be referring to another mention of a dragon escaping, but having recently redone Heavensward, I am certain that it is not mentioned elsewhere.

I always just took that as your bog-standard dragon escaping, and reasoning behind why so many dragons are roaming around. I very much doubt the Allagan set up an open safari for dragons in Azys Lla, restrains failed with age, dragons broke free and the area became what it is now. One of those dragons happened to take out the teleporter to the Flagship after it broke free, I imagine they took out a lot more too (probably helped release the rest of the dragons), given that entire area is pretty void of any Allagan technology. We were interested in the teleporter to the Flagship though, so the Node specifically mentions that.

Oh, now that I think back though, Tiamat does potentially debunk any idea that say Nidhogg hadn't hatched by the time of the Allagan. She specifically mentions seeing him leave Azys Lla during the epilogue of Heavensward when we're retracting our steps, so she saw Nidhoggs Shade leave after our fight with Thordan, and recognized him. That strongly implies that she'd met him prior to her departure to Meracydia. Could also be a case of "I recognize that aether", but who knows...

That is what I thought too, but it is literally the only mention of a dragon 'escaping' that anyone could extrapolate anything from.

On another note:

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Originally Posted by Nalien

If there's anything resembling a plot hole, I'd say it's the idea that he was protecting a seal on Primals at Silvertear, when he catastrophically failed to do that. Again though, I don't think that's what he was protecting, and I'm more incline to think releasing Primals was an intentional act. He wanted to stop Garlemalds advance, and releasing Primals did exactly that... At least it did for a while...

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While I do believe 'protecting the seal on Primals at Silvertear' was the ORIGINAL intention for Midgardsormr, it seems clear to me that they may have changed that idea when they decided primals as we know them were not actually real gods but rather ideas given thought, life and form through belief and aether. As for puposefully realeasing the primals to stop Garlemald... no I personally don't think that flies since my impression of him is that of loyalty to Hydaelyn. Rather Cilia's explanation of Middy being a bit too full of himself and making a big 'woops' seems more likely. Especially since his tone towards us when we first met is that of arrogant condescension.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Especially since his tone towards us when we first met is that of arrogant condescension.

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See, that's exactly why I don't think he made some big mistake. Had he failed in his duty like that, I'd expect him to have been a tad more humble and acknowledge the mistake, then continue to chastise us regarding the Dragonsong War. He never struck me as the type to talk down to others because of his failings.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

no I personally don't think that flies since my impression of him is that of loyalty to Hydaelyn.

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Really? I kind of got the impression that he didn't really care. He formed a covenant with Her, and he'll uphold it, but is that loyalty? My impression was more that he was just keeping up his end of the deal. He does his part and peaces out for a nap, constantly.

Also, it's worth noting how we obtained our Blessing of Light; For the most part, we gained our Crystals by fighting Primals, seems to me like they might have been part of the plan to forge a Warrior of Light, no?

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I always just took that as your bog-standard dragon escaping, and reasoning behind why so many dragons are roaming around. I very much doubt the Allagan set up an open safari for dragons in Azys Lla, restrains failed with age, dragons broke free and the area became what it is now. One of those dragons happened to take out the teleporter to the Flagship after it broke free, I imagine they took out a lot more too (probably helped release the rest of the dragons), given that entire area is pretty void of any Allagan technology. We were interested in the teleporter to the Flagship though, so the Node specifically mentions that.

Oh, now that I think back though, Tiamat does potentially debunk any idea that say Nidhogg hadn't hatched by the time of the Allagan. She specifically mentions seeing him leave Azys Lla during the epilogue of Heavensward when we're retracting our steps, so she saw Nidhoggs Shade leave after our fight with Thordan, and recognized him. That strongly implies that she'd met him prior to her departure to Meracydia. Could also be a case of "I recognize that aether", but who knows...

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There's plenty of Allagan scrap laying around in the distance in The Aery. I wouldn't be overly surprised if Nidhogg was scooped up at some point.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

There's plenty of Allagan scrap laying around in the distance in The Aery. I wouldn't be overly surprised if Nidhogg was scooped up at some point.

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As I recall they explained those scraps in an interview, they're just more pieces of Dalamud; They wanted to show that even in Dravania, there was still some fallout from the Calamity. I'd really have to go digging to find that interview though... I remember not liking the explanation though, since I would actually much rather have some tie between Nidhogg and the Allagan, just to fill in some gap in that history.

Yes that was what I was referring to. Some have theorized that it could be more than just one of Tiamat's or any of the first brood's kids that broke free and be on of the other two we don't know where they are. In both of their mythos they tend to end up blocking rivers one with actual damns the other was just sleeping. We also know the Allagans got their major golden age after they found and semi woke up Omega. We don't know how aware of other things a sleeping dragon is. So, if he somehow found out that they were playing with his old nemesis I doubt he'd want to wake up and be all hey stop that. Concerning I'm pretty sure some of Omega's tech helped lead them to the nuro links and other fun dragon restraints.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

While I do believe 'protecting the seal on Primals at Silvertear' was the ORIGINAL intention for Midgardsormr, it seems clear to me that they may have changed that idea when they decided primals as we know them were not actually real gods but rather ideas given thought, life and form through belief and aether. As for puposefully realeasing the primals to stop Garlemald... no I personally don't think that flies since my impression of him is that of loyalty to Hydaelyn. Rather Cilia's explanation of Middy being a bit too full of himself and making a big 'woops' seems more likely. Especially since his tone towards us when we first met is that of arrogant condescension.

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The "releasing primals from Lake Silvertear" is one of the very few notable retcons from 1.0 to 2.0. I'll need to dig to find the interview for it, but essentially... As of 2.0, the primals we see in the 1.0 coming out of Lake Silvertear are not literal, but symbolic. They represent that the seal on Lake Silvertear being destroyed means that there is now more ambient aether in Eorzea and the summoning primals is much easier then it used to be. The primals as we know them could easily not even have existed until they were summoned in 1.0, much less have been "released" from Lake Silvertear.

We do know that something was in/under Lake Silvertear and that it was released by Midgardsormr, but it wasn't in Eorzea. It was in Gyr Abania and is apparently a major reason as to why Gaius built Baleaur's Wall and didn't try to conquere Eorzea for the next fifteen years. He was apparently busy dealing with it, and we, the players that is, have no idea what it was. Maybe with Gaius up and about we'll find out what it is sooner rather then later...

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

[Midgardsormr] was apparently okay with Allag and Mhach setting up their capitals right next door to the lake.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Why did the Mhach set up nearby?

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Originally Posted by Floortank

he arbitrarily decided to stop the Garleans, but not the Allagan or the Mhach, from setting up near Silvertear.

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People keep talking as if the Mhachi were close enough to Silvertear Lake to seem to be encroaching on Midgardsormr's territory. When was this ever implied?

Mhach was in what is currently Yafaem Saltmoor, to the west of Mor Dhona. Not in Mor Dhona itself, as far as I'm aware - and there are no Mhachi ruins seen in the area.

Midgardsormr's condescending attitude comes from how he feels you're an insignificant speck next to him and common draconic arrogance. At that point (Before the Fall - 2.55) he doesn't really feel you're worthy of being Hydaelyn's chosen; it's not until you reach the endgame of Heavensward (3.0) that he understands why she chose you.

Just as well dragons are known for their extraordinary arrogance in fiction; it's one of their defining traits. They always know better, are stronger, smarter, more experienced, older, etc. Midgardsormr, King of the Wyrms, was bound to have at least some arrogance in his character pretty much from the get-go. Even good dragons are still arrogant. (Ironically, the only major draconic character to buck this trend is Tiamat, who is usually evil and accordingly characterized by her grand arrogance; here she's the most humble of them all.)

And I thought the plot hole you guys were going to point out was how it is clearly hinted the Primals were entities from the platonic World of Forms, and then they became this wishy-washy "I believe" junk.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

People keep talking as if the Mhachi were close enough to Silvertear Lake to seem to be encroaching on Midgardsormr's territory. When was this ever implied?

Mhach was in what is currently Yafaem Saltmoor, to the west of Mor Dhona. Not in Mor Dhona itself, as far as I'm aware - and there are no Mhachi ruins seen in the area.

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I think people conflate Yafaem being a part of Mor Dhona due to it only being accessible in a raid whose theme can be considered a remix of Mor Dhona's theme + FFIX battle theme.

But yes, the Yafaem Saltmoor is technically it's own region, like Cartenau Flats and Xelphatol.