Silvertear Skies plot hole

[Zohar_Lahar]

Will Shadowbringers finally address the huge plot hole left by Midgarsormr? Ever since a Realm Reborn, one question has been left bizarrely unanswered: why did Midgarsormr call the Dravanian Horde to intercept the Garlean fleet? I mean, he was apparently okay with Allag and Mhach setting up their capitals right next door to the lake. Yet somehow a steampunk airship armada meant it was time to sound the Dragonsong?

I remember that interview where it was said there was a "presence at Lake Silvertear" planned for 1.0 endgame, but the reboot clearly dropped that in favor of Binding Coil and Crystal Tower.

[Alleluia]

I imagine that, if the crystal tower and the area around it is a consistent anchor point between all 14 world shards, they could just say he was protecting that?

[Cilia]

I don't think it's a plot hole so much as it is something that just hasn't been explained yet...

Either way, yeah, given Silvertear Lake seems to act as a sort of singularity across all the Shards, Hydaelyn might just have called on him to do something about the Garlean invasion. Why didn't he do anything about Allag and Mhach? Whoooo knows... (Hydaelyn does, actually, but she rarely tells us much of anything.)

[Nalien]

Do we even know how long he was stationed there? I kind of figured he was actually just there to keep the Allagan relics hidden; Mhach, as far as we know, had no interest in Allag. Garlemald is an Empire set up that specifically seeks out such things, and given the whole Lunar Transmitter plot, and how it related to Crystal Tower in the end... I can see a scenario in which Bozja Citadel "woke" Middy up and alerted him to the Empires plans, so he took action when they came knocking. I'd also like to think the Agrius was crashed directly on an Allagan Primal Containment facility, and that's how the whole "Now Primals are summonable!" thing came about. The Amalj'aa are on the First, which means they're at least 10,000 years old, meaning the Allagan could easily have encountered them in the past and contained Ifrit. Potentially holds for the other Primals we see in that old trailer too. Arguably he could have been protecting such a facility as well, to prevent Primals being released, but if you look at events; Garlemald came in, fresh off the heels of Bozja Citadel (which was essentially a replica Crystal Tower) and the only thing that halted their advance was the release of Primals. That changes the release of Primals from a "Middy dun goofed" if he was protecting the "seal" on Primals, to a... Questionable plan that almost payed off (or did, if you consider we have access to the Tower rather than Gaius), if he was meant to be keeping the Tower safe.

I believe the mythology is that Silvertear Lake is the wellspring of all aether though, and Middy has been guarding it since the dawn of time? Every since Crystal Tower popped up though, I've wondered about the validity of that legend... Crystal Tower was the center of the Allagan Empire, and the source of all their power... I can see that history being half-forgotten and warped over time into the mythos we have for Silvertear today. That said, I still have absolutely no clue what Middy was doing during the Allagan days... Or the rest of his children, for that matter... Bahamut and Tiamat got completely messed up, to put it lightly, and none of the other Dravanians have any history for that time whatsoever... Right now it's like they didn't exist until Ishgard needed a backstory... I hope Bahamut and Tiamat simply hatched first, and thus the three we're familiar with were too young to do anything at the time and perhaps needed dad to protect them, more so when you factor in the Allagan teaming up with the Dragon Murder-bot from Space around the same time too.

[Daralii]

Do we even know how long he was stationed there? I kind of figured he was actually just there to keep the Allagan relics hidden; Mhach, as far as we know, had no interest in Allag. Garlemald is an Empire set up that specifically seeks out such things, and given the whole Lunar Transmitter plot, and how it related to Crystal Tower in the end... I can see a scenario in which Bozja Citadel "woke" Middy up and alerted him to the Empires plans, so he took action when they came knocking. I'd also like to think the Agrius was crashed directly on an Allagan Primal Containment facility, and that's how the whole "Now Primals are summonable!" thing came about. The Amalj'aa are on the First, which means they're at least 10,000 years old, meaning the Allagan could easily have encountered them in the past and contained Ifrit. Potentially holds for the other Primals we see in that old trailer too. Arguably he could have been protecting such a facility as well, to prevent Primals being released, but if you look at events; Garlemald came in, fresh off the heels of Bozja Citadel (which was essentially a replica Crystal Tower) and the only thing that halted their advance was the release of Primals. That changes the release of Primals from a "Middy dun goofed" if he was protecting the "seal" on Primals, to a... Questionable plan that almost payed off (or did, if you consider we have access to the Tower rather than Gaius), if he was meant to be keeping the Tower safe.

I believe the mythology is that Silvertear Lake is the wellspring of all aether though, and Middy has been guarding it since the dawn of time? Every since Crystal Tower popped up though, I've wondered about the validity of that legend... Crystal Tower was the center of the Allagan Empire, and the source of all their power... I can see that history being half-forgotten and warped over time into the mythos we have for Silvertear today. That said, I still have absolutely no clue what Middy was doing during the Allagan days... Or the rest of his children, for that matter... Bahamut and Tiamat got completely messed up, to put it lightly, and none of the other Dravanians have any history for that time whatsoever... Right now it's like they didn't exist until Ishgard needed a backstory... I hope Bahamut and Tiamat simply hatched first, and thus the three we're familiar with were too young to do anything at the time and perhaps needed dad to protect them, more so when you factor in the Allagan teaming up with the Dragon Murder-bot from Space around the same time too.

Silvertear itself is important enough that Hydaelyn forged a covenant with an alien entity to grant him and his brood a haven in exchange for protecting the seal over the lake. The lake matters, the question is why it contains such an enormous amount of aether and has at least since Nophica's mythos developed.

[Nalien]

The aetherial seal at silvertear lake prevented primals from being summoned so it couldn't have existed during the allagan era when summoning was rampant.

That's the main reason I don't think it actually was a seal, it was just Allag doing what they do best; Sealing Primals. They had Bahamut off in a space station, the Warring Triad up in Azys Lla, and Tiamat warns us that there are many more Primals sealed away by the Allagan elsewhere, yet were do we ever encounter this? Perhaps Odin and Eureka can factor into that, but still... Given the proximity to Crystal Tower, the heart of the Allagan Empire, it makes sense to me that there'd be a FFVI style Magitek Research Facility nearby containing (sealing) many other Primals.

It's entirely possible Hydaelyn sealed them away, but that creates more questions IMO; How did She seal them? Why hasn't She sealed them again? Meanwhile, we know the Allagan went on a Primal sealing frenzy. We know their capital was at Silvertear. It just fits.

Perhaps it's just the trailer being abstract, but what we see also implies to me that Ifrit and Titan (the only two we clearly see IIRC) themselves were sealed there; Physical Primals were sealed there, rather than the seal being some sort of off-switch on summoning.

Silvertear itself is important enough that Hydaelyn forged a covenant with an alien entity to grant him and his brood a haven in exchange for protecting the seal over the lake.

My only issue with this is that he didn't protect the Lake... He seemingly let the Allagan set up shop right there, and he out right nuked any "seal" that was in place there with the Agrius... He attacked the Garleans why? What knowledge of any "seal" did they have? Their motivation was purely driven by conquest, with a side helping of digging up and copying Allagan technology. The biggest Allagan find being buried right next to the Lake... The biggest Allagan find the Garleans already attempted to recreate at Bozja Citadel... Heck, Crystal Tower was even sealed in its own little time bubble by Amon...

It all just fits in my mind, meanwhile everything else just seems like myth. There are enough connections with Silvertear, the Allagan, and Garlemald, and even Primals. Meanwhile this mythical seal, this wellspring of aether? It's never been explored in the slightest, while alternative explanations pile up...

What makes you think Midgardsormr could have stopped the Allagans from setting up wherever they wanted?

If it was his job to protect the Lake because of "reasons", then I expect him to have at least tried to stop the Allagan. Instead we have absolutely no account of that, so I guess he just failed quietly? Then he failed once again when he nuked the seal in 1.0s trailer? Then he gives us sass in 2.5?

Nah, I don't buy that... I think his covenant with Hydaelyn effectively made him the first Warrior of Light, so he had to take cryptic orders from Hydaelyn like we have (also grants him significant WoL-seniority to explain how he could seal our Blessing). He wasn't guarding the Lake for every era, that simply became his new job after the Allagan Empire fell, and a failure to record history between Calamities resulted in the mythology we currently have. He has "always guarded the Lake", because there was no recorded history post-Calamity. Silvertear is the "wellspring of all aether" because... It was important at some point, right? Yes, when it was the center of the Allagan Empire, when Crystal Tower was the "wellspring" of the entire Empires energy needs...

[MrThinker]

Nah, I don't buy that... I think his covenant with Hydaelyn effectively made him the first Warrior of Light, so he had to take cryptic orders from Hydaelyn like we have (also grants him significant WoL-seniority to explain how he could seal our Blessing). He wasn't guarding the Lake for every era, that simply became his new job after the Allagan Empire fell, and a failure to record history between Calamities resulted in the mythology we currently have. He has "always guarded the Lake", because there was no recorded history post-Calamity. Silvertear is the "wellspring of all aether" because... It was important at some point, right? Yes, when it was the center of the Allagan Empire, when Crystal Tower was the "wellspring" of the entire Empires energy needs...

While I understand the point you are making here, remember that there is apparently a similar myth regarding 'The Source', Silvertear lake's analogue on the First, also being the wellspring of aether for the world. If 2 different histories and societies define very similar mythos in a fantasy setting like ours, it begs to contain some element of truth regarding the nature of the world no?

[Nalien]

While I understand the point you are making here, remember that there is apparently a similar myth regarding 'The Source', Silvertear lake's analogue on the First, also being the wellspring of aether for the world. If 2 different histories and societies define very similar mythos in a fantasy setting like ours, it begs to contain some element of truth regarding the nature of the world no?

Well, my current theory, based on the latest trailer, is that Eorzea (and its Shard equivalents) was the location of the first summoning, and subsequent Sundering when Hydaelyn and Zodiark fell out. It's the epicenter of everything, it's retained some mythological importance across all Shards as a result of that. I believe even the Ascians hold Eorzea in some higher regard than the rest of the world? So yes, there must be some other reason for that.

Now, that perhaps debunks my own Allagan/Crystal Tower theory, but... How do people on the Source remember anything? So far there's no reason to believe the First has experienced Calamities, it should have had a fairly typical history. Naturally the memory from the Sundering should carry on in some form (there are even cave paintings detailing it) so they have plenty with which to paint mythology with. The Source though, it gets hard resets on its civilizations with every Rejoining. How does Eorzea remember that Silvertear holds any significance with that happening? Simple, it's remembered as an important site, not because the details are remembered, but because civilizations keep setting up there. Why did the Allagan set up shop there? Because of a vague memory from a previous era that the area held significance. Why did the Mhach set up nearby? Given their ties to Voidsent, I could see that being a large factor given the Allagan set up a massive Voidgate to open there. Now, we remember it as being important because it was important to those civilizations that we barely remember, but do we remember why they found it important? Not really, so we make that up, and in a world of magic and aether? Naturally those are the go-tos for myth.

[Floortank]

If it was his job to protect the Lake because of "reasons", then I expect him to have at least tried to stop the Allagan. Instead we have absolutely no account of that, so I guess he just failed quietly? Then he failed once again when he nuked the seal in 1.0s trailer?

Whether he tried or not is immaterial to your claim, which is that he arbitrarily decided to stop the Garleans, but not the Allagan or the Mhach, from setting up near Silvertear. You say it's a plot hole, but it's not.

1) He couldn't have stopped the Allagan Empire from moving onto Silvertear Lake. Whether he tried to or not doesn't matter. The Garlean fleet is a bunch of mere toys compared to Allagan weaponry; he got KO'd by ceruleum engines on accident / the Allagans had way more sophisticated, dangerous, and powerful weaponry than the side effects of an explosion. Yes, he probably failed or couldn't do anything about it. That's not a plot hole.

2) The Mhachi weren't threatening the world by moving into the vicinity, so he didn't need to attack them. Nor does Rowena threaten the lake by setting up shop near it. If there's not an actual threat to the font of aether in the lake, then he's not going to react.

[Nalien]

Whether he tried or not is immaterial to your claim, which is that he arbitrarily decided to stop the Garleans, but not the Allagan or the Mhach, from setting up near Silvertear. You say it's a plot hole, but it's not.

OP claimed it was a plot hole, I've done nothing of the sort. I've simply pointed out that it's an odd gap in our understanding of events.

Heck, I'm pretty sure I've claimed the exact opposite that he "arbitrarily decided to stop the Garleans", I've given what I think is his reasoning for stopping them, and why he did nothing with the Allagan or Mhach; He was keeping Crystal Tower safe. Crystal Tower was built by the Allagans, ergo he had no reason to protect it during their reign, only after it sunk away and was sealed in a little time bubble did it need guarding. The Mhach had seemingly no interest in Allagan technology. Garlemald? They straight up attempted to recreate Crystal Tower with Bozja Citadel, then flew on into Mor Dhona? Yeah, there is clear intention there and reason to act on Middys part, IMO.

That's my interpretation of events based on the information we have (and my reluctance to take mythos as fact). The information we have that suggests he was guarding the Lake during the Allagans reign is none existent as it currently stands (again, except for mythos). There is absolutely zero mention of him, no indication of any fight, no indication he did anything during that time. It's not a plot hole, it's simply missing information. Oddly missing information given how much we've delved into that history at this point. Shadowbringers could fill in some of those gaps and completely debunk my theory, but until then?

If there's anything resembling a plot hole, I'd say it's the idea that he was protecting a seal on Primals at Silvertear, when he catastrophically failed to do that. Again though, I don't think that's what he was protecting, and I'm more incline to think releasing Primals was an intentional act. He wanted to stop Garlemalds advance, and releasing Primals did exactly that... At least it did for a while...