DRG AoE combo issue

It appears based on the below tooltips that DRG's AoE combo extends Blood of the Dragon TWICE, but not Disembowel's +10% damage buff. This seems like an oversight considering MNK's and SAM's AoE combos extend Shifu/Jinpu, and Greased Lightning/Twin Snakes buffs respectively. What this means is, during our AoE rotation, we would need to interrupt our AoE attacks to do True Thrust->Disembowel for the buff and then return to our 3-part AoE combos. Compared to MNK and SAM who don't need to do this, it seems sort of unfair or potentially overlooked.


https://i.imgur.com/bsuUyJz.png


https://i.imgur.com/QhnREYj.png


https://i.imgur.com/xxKPm4J.png

Yes, I'm not sure if this was an oversight, or how they intended it to be. I do hope it's the former.

Even NIN's second part of AoE combo extends their Huton despite it lasting 70 bloody seconds.

https://i.imgur.com/gVkwZrG.png

Damage buff being locked behind second single target GCD doesn't help either.

WAR's Mythril Tempest also extends their Storm's Eye buff.

Don't forget the others are just extending the effect, not applying them if you don't have them already.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

Don't forget the others are just extending the effect, not applying them if you don't have them already.

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The same is true for BotD with our combo. Having Sonic Thrust boost Disembowel would be ideal since it's the second move in the combo.

Good catch! Hopefully they see this lol

I would like to point out that DRG's aoe combo has a lot more potency on the weaponskills.
Even the first step of the combo has 10 more than SAM's second step.

Ofc potencies are not final as far as we know. But I do think it outweighs occasionally (every 24 seconds) performing two actions to get the 10% buff back up.

230 potency on Coerthan with no falloff is nothing to sneeze at.

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Originally Posted by Ing-Dono

Ofc potencies are not final as far as we know. But I do think it outweighs occasionally (every 24 seconds) performing two actions to get the 10% buff back up.

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You're better off letting it fall off.

On three targets, the third and sixth Coerthan Torments will pull the Disembowel AoE rotation slightly ahead of the pure AoE rotation, for those two GCDs only. On all other GCDs, the pure AoE running total is higher.

On four or more targets, the pure AoE rotation is always higher than pausing to Disembowel.

Maths:

https://i.imgur.com/Ym49FV9.png
https://i.imgur.com/mrI4pyx.png

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Originally Posted by Rongway

You're better off letting it fall off.
Maths:

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That difference is actually smaller than I would've expected.
Ofc it'll build up over time.
Potencies aren't final yet, but still.
Thanks for taking the time regardless.:cool:

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Even the first step of the combo has 10 more than SAM's second step.

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Yes but SAM gets 12% damage buff from their AoE, which puts it ahead. Also 12% haste as well, so they probably pump out 11 or 12 GCDs for every 10 we pump out.

Potency difference is offset by the GCD speed actually, as NIN, MNK and SAM have weaker Weaponskills but they are faster than DRG.

SAM AoEs don't give you the Jinpu and Shifu buffs. They extend them. You have to have them running first, so gotta pursue a single target combo while doing a big pull to get the buffs then go for AoE once you have them. Same applies for MNK and maybe NIN (as they have the dirty easy life).

Also don't forget Dragoons get to throw Stardiver, Dragonfire Dive, Geirskogul and Nastrond into the mix, together with a party-wide crit buff and Lance Charge (15% boost)
I think Dragoons are not going to lag behind in the AOE department even if they lack the buff refresh on the aoe combo.

I don't understand why didn't they just put the buff on true thrust? Sure disembowel has always been our pierce debuff, but it's not anymore so would it really have mattered if true thrust suddenly got the buff? I mean, dragoon are all accustomed to stopping our aoe's to heavy thrust real quick so that would have been a quick solution. Or am I missing something? Would having a 10% dps buff up on our aoes break drg so they made it more of a hassle to get?

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

I don't understand why didn't they just put the buff on true thrust?

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Putting the buff on True Thrust would mean you start both combo's with applying the buff, meaning they'd have to make it shorter to cover only half of your gcd rotation. Which would be a bit odd I think.

Retracted.
PS: SE please be clearer with your trait tooltips.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

I don't understand why didn't they just put the buff on true thrust? Sure disembowel has always been our pierce debuff, but it's not anymore so would it really have mattered if true thrust suddenly got the buff?

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Presumably it's to encourage you to alternate combos during single target play. It's worth noting that the two complete six step ShB combos together take up 29.16s, which is 5.16s longer than the damage buff duration, which means that you will always do one Raiden Thrust, one True Thrust, and Disembowel at base potency. If the buff were granted by True Thrust instead, the single target rotation would do an additional 94 potency every 12 GCDs, or on average 7.83 potency per GCD. This is comparable to gaining two extra Jumps every three minutes.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Presumably it's to encourage you to alternate combos during single target play. It's worth noting that the two complete six step ShB combos together take up 29.16s

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Hold on a second, six steps? Raiden Thrust is an upgraded True Thrust. From Raiden you can continue into the rest of the combo.
So if you can hit your positionals without fail, you'd only use True Thrust once in the entire fight, not counting stuff like transitions breaking your combo.
So your gcd rotation will only be 10 steps long [True > Disem > Chaos > Wheel > F&C > Raiden > Vorp > Full > F&C > Wheel], I currently have a gcd cooldown of 2.48, the full rotation would be 24.8 seconds long (assuming no faulty weaves etc.) while the 10% damage buff will come in after the second action, you should be able to keep it up 100% of the time if your sks is high enough. Worst case only Disembowel isn't boosted by the buff it provides.

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Originally Posted by Ing-Dono

Hold on a second, six steps? Raiden Thrust is an upgraded True Thrust.

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AHHHH that's what I was missing. Thanks. I just spent the last half hour cross referencing tooltips and spreadsheets to figure out why Raiden Thrust seemed so underpowered. Replacing True Thrust makes so much more sense. The Lance Mastery II tooltip would be better worded:

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Originally Posted by How the Lance Mastery II tooltip would be better worded

True Thrust is upgraded to Raiden Thrust if Fang and Claw is executed following Wheeling Thrust -- or vice versa -- while adhering to directional requirements.

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Hey you two, thanks for answering my question! So it looks like ss is back on the menu then for materia melding?

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Originally Posted by Rongway

AHHHH that's what I was missing.

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Yeah I was pretty confused by it at first too.
Then I saw the icon for True Thrust change in the corner of my eye while watching a Shadowbringers Dragoon video.
Went through it frame by frame and indeed, it replaces True Thrust.
They definitely should mention that in the tooltip.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

AHHHH that's what I was missing. Thanks. I just spent the last half hour cross referencing tooltips and spreadsheets to figure out why Raiden Thrust seemed so underpowered. Replacing True Thrust makes so much more sense. The Lance Mastery II tooltip would be better worded:

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The Japanese tooltip is very clear with this (True Thrust turning into Raiden with the buff) so you can expect them to fix it in the release, heck it might already be fixed in the E3 build.

https://i.imgur.com/mOuFKcq.jpg

As for the buff duration, I do find it very weird they gave us such huge buffer in SB, only to take it away (and made it tighter even) in 5.0. I'm expecting some adjustment from the old media tour build, because as they have stated many times before, the numbers are not final yet.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Hey you two, thanks for answering my question! So it looks like ss is back on the menu then for materia melding?

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Unless they up the buff time to like 28 seconds, yes.
SS is gonna make it a lot more comfortable to complete your rotation while evading aoe's.

You clipped Disembowel and Chaos Thrust by about 4-6 seconds in SB. In ShB it's going to either drop or be very tight, considering 24s duration and 10 GCD rotation (~2.4GCD)

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

You clipped Disembowel and Chaos Thrust by about 4-6 seconds in SB. In ShB it's going to either drop or be very tight, considering 24s duration and 10 GCD rotation (~2.4GCD)

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Maybe this is a way to incentivize not going full into crit and dhit, but get some skill speed in there as well.

I'm actually pretty excited to see how drg aoe plays out. In my head, it seems like it should be the most consistent high aoe damage job out of the melee.