Healers, their DPS and 5.0, what are your thoughts?

A healer has 2 jobs: keep the party alive, and be the best they can be. I'll admit that I'm the cohealer who sees the other healer not dealing damage and decides to focus almost entirely on damage, save for when my healing input is needed for party survival. If your best is being solely a healer, you're doing both of your jobs.

Healing.
Healing is the backbone of the party, let alone any RPG. At the end of the day, every battle is a damage race: the party's HP reaches 0 or the enemy's does, and healing drives this race in the party's favor by undoing the damage.

Healer DPS - includes my perspective on the changes presented with the information from the NA media tour and my past experiences.
If I'm dealing no damage, I'm not being the best I can be.
Healer DPS makes the role quite engaging and satisfying to undertake because it's a balancing act between damage output and the party's health, which makes it fun. This is why I will remain a healer main, even if I am reduced to a 2 button rotation.
I am disappointed that the core gameplay will be simplified so much, but I'll accept what is given to me and make the most of it. I also understand that SE is trying to not flood our hotbars too much... I already play with 3.
More specific stuff: SCH/WHM/AST, respectively:
SCH is losing both some Aetherflow mechanics such as the use of Energy Drain and Bane, and also loses Miasma. Aero III is 1 less DoT for 1v1, which isn't as fun. Having 3 DoTs to juggle vice 1 made battle more entertaining, and provided way more openings to manipulate cards during both instant casts (Aero and Combust) (Comparing HW vs SB at launch).
I feel that the healer damage rotation is becoming VERY braindead, but I will also acknowledge that Afflatus Misery is a nice touch that encourages more heal-only healers to step up and slap the boss.

What about all of the new healing abilities/changes that will become available in ShB?
I'll wait for the expansion on that one.

TL:DR-My opinion: Healer DPS is becoming too oversimplified.

What are your thoughts? Do you think healer is becoming too simple with its damage rotation? If you choose not to deal damage, do you like the idea of more healing tools? Are you going to continue to be a healer main in 5.0? Which healer is your favorite?

Well, speaking for *only* myself...

1. I like to do buffs or damage when not healing because it is helpful and fun. Standing around waiting until someone needs to be healed isn't as fun to me. So I personally choose to "always be casting" when possible during combat. (Increasing healing checks sometimes sounds like a way to "keep healers busy" but I've run the DF with random groups 99.9% of the time since I started this game and that could lead to better healer training but also to many more wipes, I suspect.)

2. If we defeat our foes faster that's less of a chance they will defeat us. So while mechanics to heal NPCs, etc., are cool, my dps-ing is also a form of party protection. I would enjoy using more protecting and healing strategies if they were baked into the game, but fighting is inevitable even for healers.

3. If I am going to be buffing and damage dealing in a party (and also of course solo), I want it to look and feel cool and to be useful. To have great animations and sounds, with minor choices to make among some fun options. Stripping away options and choices sounds less fun, especially if what is left is dull and repetitive.

Clearly even if someone else agrees with the above perspective (and many won't), there is still going to be disagreement on what looks and feels cool, or how many options or what types of options should be available.

For example, I think I would enjoy:

• healing by doing damage or even at time sacrificing some of my health for a cool buff or heal (risk-reward management)
• healing spells that can directly or indirectly proc either a party buff or a damage ability (that are oGCD to help with weaving), caster's choice
• spreading DoTS/targeted ground AoE damage (R.I.P. Bane and Shadow Flare for SCH)
• randomized variety of buffs for group utility and different damage modes (R.I.P. old AST cards, unBalanced and new player unfriendly as you were)
• stunning or binding or otherwise cc'ing enemies while dealing damage (hurrah for Holy!)
• an enemy debuff/heal combo
• other interesting possibilities that help mix healing, buffing, debuffing, and damage around a theme/job fantasty, especially when you get to choose which of those you want or when one empowers the other ("you got a healing buff for doing X damage!")
• having a dps or debuff spell chain with itself to make interesting combos (inspired by Atlantasia below and also now reminding me of another older comment), like DPS Ability 1, DPS Ability 1 (Chain Bonus!), DPS Ability 1 (Chain Bonus!), DPS Ability 1 now becomes DPS Ability 3 (end chain). Or even the same thing but also thrown in a second button (DPS Ability 2) that lights up with a bonus to damage or extra effect because of chaining from DPS Ability 1 and maybe eventually even becomes DPS Ability 4 (end chain). Thus a mini-game for those who can and want to DPS but that's easier and more intuitive for all players to learn and use
  

Now, other players might HATE those ideas and never, ever, ever want to see them in the game. I might feel the same about their preferences. Which is why new expansion "first reveals" can cause people to react in the full range of YESSSSSSSS! to NOOOOOOOO! to ~meh~. Which is what we are seeing now.

Yet despite that list I still also like the straightforward power-healing of WHM for my DF runs (and WHM has at least one of the listed items above to boot). I still enjoy healing, even when fun toys are taken away or new fun toys aren't added. But I don't mind or apologize for asking for more options for those who choose to heal. And I get why many people are feeling so let down.

So, good luck to all of us healers, however our hopes faired this day. And if you need to switch to DPS or Tank (which I honestly need to learn), best wishes in the new primary role and in all sincerity have fun! It's the whole point, after all :)

The dev team probably thinks you guys want to focus on healing a hell of a lot more than you do DPSing.

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Originally Posted by Kanitezz

The dev team probably thinks you guys want to focus on healing a hell of a lot more than you do DPSing.

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I'd be fine with that. I like the support role. I just find it mindboggling there are multiple DPS classes with some kind of party support, and yet the devs seem to think an actual support class should do a little healing but mostly spam dps abilities. MCH has more party damage mitigation tools right now than WHM. That makes sense...right????

iam pretty flexible when it come to being healer. you want me to help dps? sure i can do that. you want me to stay out and focus on healing? gladly. this PLD guy want to heal himself so i can spam holy nonstop? will do.

in other words i just follow the "adapt and learn" playstyle, if the new makeover give me this restriction, so be it.

my only genuine upset is AST cards, for WHM well they didnt change much, still being an overheal class as always lol

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MCH has more party damage mitigation tools right now than WHM. That makes sense...right????

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well to be frank WHM is always been about heal heal and more heal and thats it lol. if you want mitigation healer, you can just look at SCH or AST on that one.

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Originally Posted by Josco

I'd be fine with that. I like the support role. I just find it mindboggling there are multiple DPS classes with some kind of party support, and yet the devs seem to think an actual support class should do a little healing but mostly spam dps abilities. MCH has more party damage mitigation tools right now than WHM. That makes sense...right????

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DOES kinda make you wonder what goes through heads when doin this stuff, yeah.

I enjoy DPSing in between healing in higher tier content. That's one aspect I really enjoy and frankly I do not want to heal like other games.

What I'd like to see, is keeping the 2-3 DPS skills, but have them chain and you hit the same skill (chains to the next skill) to activate the next in the chain, this increases our skills without filling our bars and may make it a bit more interesting, even if it is the same 2-3 buttons. It still looks different and feels more substantial.

But that's just my suggestion on that one aspect. The challenge between DPSing as hard as I can to help my party clear and keeping them alive is where I feel alive currently, but I do remember T6-T13. The challenge there for WHM was in keeping the party healed, shielded where you could/it was needed, while putting a few DoTs up and keeping your MP afloat with potions, etc. That wasn't bad either, there is a level of fun in that, but after being given ice cream for 4 years, I can't see people transitioning peacefully back into a non ice cream era of healing.

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Originally Posted by Atlantasia

I enjoy DPSing in between healing in higher tier content. That's one aspect I really enjoy and frankly I do not want to heal like other games.

What I'd like to see, is keeping the 2-3 DPS skills, but have them chain and you hit the same skill (chains to the next skill) to activate the next in the chain, this increases our skills without filling our bars and may make it a bit more interesting, even if it is the same 2-3 buttons. It still looks different and feels more substantial.

But that's just my suggestion on that one aspect. The challenge between DPSing as hard as I can to help my party clear and keeping them alive is where I feel alive currently, but I do remember T6-T13. The challenge there for WHM was in keeping the party healed, shielded where you could/it was needed, while putting a few DoTs up and keeping your MP afloat with potions, etc. That wasn't bad either, there is a level of fun in that, but after being given ice cream for 4 years, I can't see people transitioning peacefully back into a non ice cream era of healing.

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Yeeeeeeesssssssssssssssss... adding that to my list

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Originally Posted by Atlantasia

I enjoy DPSing in between healing in higher tier content. That's one aspect I really enjoy and frankly I do not want to heal like other games.

What I'd like to see, is keeping the 2-3 DPS skills, but have them chain and you hit the same skill (chains to the next skill) to activate the next in the chain, this increases our skills without filling our bars and may make it a bit more interesting, even if it is the same 2-3 buttons. It still looks different and feels more substantial.

But that's just my suggestion on that one aspect. The challenge between DPSing as hard as I can to help my party clear and keeping them alive is where I feel alive currently, but I do remember T6-T13. The challenge there for WHM was in keeping the party healed, shielded where you could/it was needed, while putting a few DoTs up and keeping your MP afloat with potions, etc. That wasn't bad either, there is a level of fun in that, but after being given ice cream for 4 years, I can't see people transitioning peacefully back into a non ice cream era of healing.

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since you are WHM, i will tell you this. to be honest, what we going to do in shadowbringer is going to be no different from our current, since we dont change much.

get in -> holy holy holy assize holy -> dot dot

and later in shadowbringer we have one extra large aoe to weave in when we our blood lily is on

as whm we are bound and cursed with this holy skill =P

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keeping the 2-3 DPS skills, but have them chain and you hit the same skill (chains to the next skill) to activate the next in the chain

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so you mean the usual 123 combo but with magic instead?

Looking at all the jobs as a whole, it seems that they're moving the DPS from healers towards tanks. Tanks are now basically just DPS with an enmity gain stance, and a lot of their moves and new moves seem to be pushing them towards taking Healer's damage to compensate for SE wanting us to heal more. I'm personally fine with DPSing less, on the condition that SH will have a hell of a lot more damage for us to heal through, that's the only way this change is acceptable.

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Originally Posted by gumas

since you are WHM, i will tell you this. to be honest, what we going to do in shadowbringer is going to be no different from our current, since we dont change much.

get in -> holy holy holy assize holy -> dot dot

and later in shadowbringer we have one extra large aoe to weave in when we our blood lily is on

as whm we are bound and cursed with this holy skill =P



so you mean the usual 123 combo but with magic instead?

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Have you ever played AION? There skills chain, and when I say chain, the same way Tank Aggro Combo or DRG's combo skills chain, BUT instead of needing to press different buttons, the skills chain so that the next skill in the chain becomes the icon of the first skill to trigger it, so while you press the same button, they're entirely different skills with entirely different animations/cast times/damage. That would make it easy enough to do, but also add some variety to the 2-3 spells we currently get.

I've been playing WHM since the launch of ARR. I know we're headed into more of the same... still hoping we're not, but it's like SB all over again. *sigh*

Honestly the changes are making it clear that SE has no idea how to make healers engaging, or any idea of what the issues we have with the jobs are. Each job is borderline unplayable in this state, and it's honestly making me wonder why they even bother having healer classes. May as well just give everyone a potent regen and delete the role.

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Have you ever played AION? snip

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oh okay, now you said AION, i see what kind of skill cain you are talking about.

so far rdm is getting that treatment (veraero and thunder change to verholy and flare if proc), lets hope in the future there will be more of it, its good for minimizing skill hotbar i guess.

Not all of us care for meta, which is the point of balancing as well as 4 man content which barely even requires any sort of thought that even the worst players can breeze through it unharmed.

But at this point the goal for 5.0 Is to really solidify the roles. Tanks can only tank healers can apparently only heal and I’m shocked vercure is still in due to this ethos. With this all the healers get is 1/2 attacks 3 if they’re lucky. Which is annoying for people that level healers in the story since you have 10 different solutions to heal parties but your alone.

Also 5.0 strives to be as simple as possible, since all the jobs got rid of irrelevant skills (shocking how Fluid arua is still a skill, who uses that even outside of savage trials?) it works to be simple for some others sacrifice their charm like AST. With this jobs simply lose their individuality their aren’t 17 jobs, but 3 roles

Their isn’t 3 healers, there is 1 healer role

Their isn’t 4 tanks, there’s 1 tank role

When I saw that SCH was gutted even more I cried. I like the added emphasis on the shields but I want my DoTs and my Miasma 2, or better yet Meltdown.

They absolutely did not go the way I thought they would at all. I expected all healers getting their healing kit streamlined and homogenized to a degree, but with the contributions to party DPS being fleshed out and used to differentiate them.

Instead they've made DPS brain dead across the board, and it looks like WHM is still going to be the forgotten healer.

Yeah, they really wanted to emphasize healing, but it won't work in a game like FF14, incoming damage is just simply too low and predictable.

Even if they had increased healing checks in ShB, anything below it is going to be a painful slog with nothing to do during downtime.

Healers only healing may work in WoW, but that's because the entire game is designed so that you'll be casting heals without cease, because otherwise your tank/group is dead. There might some downtime in WoW, too, but there's so little of it that a couple of DPS skills is "good enough".

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

Yeah, they really wanted to emphasize healing, but it won't work in a game like FF14, incoming damage is just simply too low and predictable.

Even if they had increased healing checks in ShB, anything below it is going to be a painful slog with nothing to do during downtime.

Healers only healing may work in WoW, but that's because the entire game is designed so that you'll be casting heals without cease, because otherwise your tank/group is dead. There might some downtime in WoW, too, but there's so little of it that a couple of DPS skills is "good enough".

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I dunno man, I always found time to do alot of dps in wow myself. And not just as disc priest or holy pally to.

At least for early WoW, the main reason healers didn't DPS much was to maximize resource regeneration, not so much downtime. This game really devalues resource regeneration. In the first two weeks, much of healers issues will depend on how much incoming damage comes in, how much downtime is left after recovering said damage, and how important will passive resource regeneration matter. Based on the balance of those things will more or less dictate the entire feel of it. Currently, there is not enough damage input, we have way too much downtime between recovering from the damage inputs, and our resource management is a joke that basically treats passive regeneration as a non-factor outside of spam deaths.

I'm not sure where I fall yet, but old content will likely be even more of a joke with the changes, new content on the other hand has some chance.