Healers in 5.0

Eos and Selene arent the only skins you can choose from.

White Mage, Scholar and Astrologian are "skins" as well. All abilities are almost the same buff/healing effect and also DPS-wise 1 single target magic, 1 dot magic and 1 AOE magic.
Also rip Aero & Stone. We Dia and Glare now.

Whats your opinion?



edit: some info resources for people joining

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAS-pGutt4o
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...review_healer/
https://imgur.com/a/n2lcPZH

Eh, I'll wait to get my hands on it before forming a proper opinion, but looking over what they changed, I think they went overboard with the "balancing" of healer actions. Which is a shame because I felt like all three healers were viable and can complete any content - the only place where that balance goes wonky is when you factor in speedrunning and damage parsing. I'll still main healer, but I'm a bit disappointed.

As a main healer since ever, i couldnt tell you how disappointed i am. Sad Times :(

Overall, it's about what I expected to happen when they spent years trying to balance all three healers and not have to constantly hear "sch+ast, lolwhm".

With that said, as the only one I really play is ast (see my character card below) yeah I like what I saw from ast. I like the idea of constantly throwing out cards instead of what i find myself doing now which was fishing for Ewer/Spires to Royal Road and a Balance to actually use. I also like that I can now plan for Lord and Lady cards instead of hoping for the best.

So...I'm happy but will need to see how it plays in practice.

If they're trying to get people to quit playing healers, they're going about it exactly the right way.

Poor scholar, completely gutted. They're all practically the same now, and dpsing as a healer from now on... yawn. I was hoping to go back to maining scholar as it used to be my favourite before the changes in SB, but with this news? Doubtful. Might even end up switching to dps.

I feel that unless they really up damage output/healing needed, that healer will become the new tank - aka the role that is desperately needed in parties, because a lot of career healers will be switching to more engaging jobs.

Its disappointing that this is their solution to "balancing" healers. I'm kinda grateful DNC is a dps now lol

Saw someone say the following, and it really feels on point:

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"I feel like the idea was to simplify the healers so that new people weren't afraid to give them a shot. But they just got rid of the interesting parts and now the existing healers are jumping ship."

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Can't wait to see what queues are going to be like. I'll probably still level a healer for FC activities/runs, but I don't know if I'm going to be maining it this expansion.

Ah I see, they've taken the WoW approach to "balance."
=.=

Also congrats SE, you've managed to make cards boring. :T

At this rate, they might actually put healer mount achievements in the game to get people to play.

Yay, i guess...

I have a friend who plays AST, and they are not a fan of the changes whatsoever. I definitely feel bad for healer mains right now. They got the short end of the stick in so many ways.

The only healer I really play is AST, but it is my main and so far I'm disappointed with the changes I see.

I know that the changes aren't final, and I also don't know how it will feel playing it until I actually get to play it. It took me a while to want to try the current AST because people kept spooking me with its complexity. It certainly seemed overwhelming to me too when I watched videos. But once I actually started to play it, I began to love it. Perhaps I'll end up feeling the same way once I play 5.0's AST, especially if they change encounter designs.

I also understand why they changed the card system. A lot of ASTs just fished for balances anyways, might as well make all cards increase DPS.

But the content I most regularly do is dungeons, not high-end raids (which I've yet to dip my toes into). So fishing for RR Balances wasn't always what I cared about. Enhanced Balance, sure, but most of the other cards had their uses too. I find the current card system extremely fun and engaging. Furthermore, I've always loved the Time Mage aspects/buff extensions that AST can utilize. So when I watched the video, I couldn't help but feel disappointed that the things I love about AST are either getting changed considerably or removed altogether.

I hope that I will still love AST in 5.0. I guess only time will tell.

my 6.0 prediction, fluid aura becomes "splash" and does absolutely nothing.

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Originally Posted by Darkplanet

my 6.0 prediction, fluid aura becomes "splash" and does absolutely nothing.

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How well i think that will go:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/80Jss...7&rid=200.webp

Well, I guess we know now why Y'shtola switched to BLM in the ShB trailer. :rolleyes:

Personally I like the AST changes, while this new system might not be perfect, it's definitely better than waiting 5 mins between parse runs because the AST can't get a balance or screwing up boss phases because of rdps differences. I think the seal system has potential, hopefully with 6.0 it'll be made a bit more interesting.

I wait and see how it actually feel to play. I really hoped to do more actually healing than just throwing stones in most dungeons but I also would have liked a bit new spice to my main (WHM). For AST and SCH I can't really say I'm hyped about the changes but I would like to try them out first before I throw a tantrum.

It’s really sad honestly. They kept each jobs “identity” in the most literal sense; aesthetically.

Other than that they are essentially all the same. As an AST main whose been around since a realm reborn back when I was a whm and an AST when we super sucked during heavensward I think I might try to dps

I've just seen the changes and I am super disappointed. I mean no new healer was already sad, and now they do this.

I've played all healers basically and WHM seems to have gotten some good things and the least changes. They drastically changed SCH dps and pet management and then just (imo) gutted AST.
I mained AST since its release, through the very bad and good times, and I actually enjoyed making decisions. Now I look at these "cards" and it feels like they just kept them because they were already there. I really dislike it. It was RNG before and probably suboptimal, but it was fun and engaging and what made it different. Now it's probably dead for me and am glad I already decided to not main healer this expac. Sad, but also glad.

Players, unsurprisingly, are over-reacting. Tremendously. Every accusation of "loss of identity" is nothing short of hyperbole. Yes, the DPS toolkits are simplified and homogenized—which isn't exactly a bad thing, given how many healers outright refuse to DPS, and the difficulty ceiling of DPSing optimally and healing simultaneously is much higher than anything else in the game. That being said, look at the healing toolkits, there are similarities but there are job defining characteristics that clearly distinguish them from the others. Job identity is intact, just not in the DPS repertoire.


Overall, I do like the changes. The needlessly complicated aspects of healers have been quashed, and redundant utility (looking at you AST, and how every card but Balance got re-drawn or royal roaded) has been eliminated.


More than anything, wait to play the changes. DPSing is going to be ... less than fun, but we really need to see encounter design before we make too many judgments.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

Players, unsurprisingly, are over-reacting. Tremendously. Every accusation of "loss of identity" is nothing short of hyperbole. Yes, the DPS toolkits are simplified and homogenized—which isn't exactly a bad thing, given how many healers outright refuse to DPS, and the difficulty ceiling of DPSing optimally and healing simultaneously is much higher than anything else in the game. That being said, look at the healing toolkits, there are similarities but there are job defining characteristics that clearly distinguish them from the others. Job identity is intact, just not in the DPS repertoire.

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My guy, bad healers will still not DPS. Simplifyin damage for healers will not change that. Bads will stay bads because they have to make the conscious effort to be bad at this point.

See you all in the expansion!

Welp, my partner who used to main WHM/AST is so glad they jumped ship to SMN after SB released. The lack of innovation and variety among the healers is shocking at this point...

With the amount of healing potential all classes have now this game had better ramp up damage from mobs and bosses considerably. If they don't, they will effectively made healers the most boring roles to play. I was thinking of switching back to sch, but I think I'm gonna take my chances as a drg again. But hey, on the plus side. With drg having no real way to cut enmity y'all will have to heal me as I tear hate from tanks like a mad lad as I ram my 1,2,3 aoe rotation into a Nidhogg pain express jump (assuming tanks keep their current habits).

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Originally Posted by seida

If they're trying to get people to quit playing healers, they're going about it exactly the right way.

Poor scholar, completely gutted. They're all practically the same now, and dpsing as a healer from now on... yawn. I was hoping to go back to maining scholar as it used to be my favourite before the changes in SB, but with this news? Doubtful. Might even end up switching to dps.

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Scholar was not gutted at all. People are overreacting to them losing Bane and Shadowflare which I honestly saw coming. They've been wanting to separate scholar from summoner and aside from creating a new base class for scholar to evolve from in addition to creating new lore and quests from 1-80, this was the decision that made the most sense.

As someone who usually played healer the majority of the time since 3.0, I gotta say I’m not enthusiastic about these changes. What’s the point in leveling all the healers like I used to in order to have somewhat unique experiences while healing? SCH completely gutted and AST now braindead boring due to spread being done away with and the mechanic overall being reworked. Hard pass from me. Think I’ll stick with DNC/BLM and WAR/DRK going forward come 5.0 so I won’t feel like I’m playing the role of a bot.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Scholar was not gutted at all. People are overreacting to them losing Bane and Shadowflare which I honestly saw coming. They've been wanting to separate scholar from summoner and aside from creating a new base class for scholar to evolve from in addition to creating new lore and quests from 1-80, this was the decision that made the most sense.

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Bane, shadowflare, miasma, miasma II, energy drain.... how is losing FIVE key dps abilities not gutting scholar?

Unless they seriously increase the need for healing going forward (oh, and somehow do the same for all old content) healing is going to be the most boring job in the game. Hardly any need for healing, even dpsing in the downtime will send you to sleep.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Scholar was not gutted at all. People are overreacting to them losing Bane and Shadowflare which I honestly saw coming. They've been wanting to separate scholar from summoner and aside from creating a new base class for scholar to evolve from in addition to creating new lore and quests from 1-80, this was the decision that made the most sense.

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SCH not gutted? 3/4 of it's offensive toolkit is gone. Energy drain as a way to increase personal dps and use up aetherflow stacks-- gone. I guess I will lustrate random targets now to use them up? Critlo deploy-- gone. Fairy utility significantly nerfed. Fairy healing heavily nerfed. (That embrace potency now is just... cringey considering SCH lacks a Cure II type spell and Eos' old embrace made up for that in some ways.) Honestly-- SCH's fall from grace is very significant. They got sniped. AST almost as badly imho. When WHM comes out on top and starts looking pretty good-- you know they did the other two healers dirty.

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Originally Posted by OpheliaHeartilly

SCH not gutted? 3/4 of it's offensive toolkit is gone. Energy drain as a way to increase personal dps and use up aetherflow stacks-- gone. I guess I will lustrate random targets now to use them up? Critlo deploy-- gone. Fairy utility significantly nerfed. Fairy healing heavily nerfed. (That embrace potency now is just... cringey considering SCH lacks a Cure II type spell and Eos' old embrace made up for that in some ways.) Honestly-- SCH's fall from grace is very significant. They got sniped. AST almost as badly imho. When WHM comes out on top and starts looking pretty good-- you know they did the other two healers dirty.

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You forgot that Selene is more or less completely gone and we lost a skill on Eos. Our potency on fey union is less as well. And while you're completely correct that dps has been gutted something worse happened: we are now bloated with healing potential. Did sch really need all these new ways to heal? But hey guys, they finally 'fixed' dissipation! So that's something.

im going to main dancer from shadowbringers on and i have been allways a healer main - this is the first time im going to main a dps job. im really dissapointed with the healers right now, i'm going to lvl scholar (actual main) after dancer to 80 and see where i'm going from there on.

Know I'm sure not going to ever play as healer anymore and that was my first 3 jobs I got to max first. Guess this means there is going to be shortage on healers in 5.0.

I'll wait to pass judgement until I can actually play the jobs, but I am a little confused why they got rid of E4E and kept Rescue... Unless they actually made rescue a viable ability.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

You forgot that Selene is more or less completely gone and we lost a skill on Eos. Our potency on fey union is less as well. And while you're completely correct that dps has been gutted something worse happened: we are now bloated with healing potential. Did sch really need all these new ways to heal? But hey guys, they finally 'fixed' dissipation! So that's something.

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So true! Honestly-- I was reading about all the changes, and then I watched the showcase video with all the healers explained... and my brain went numb. My fav part in the video was when the translator said "While Seraph is summoned, faerie actions are changed as follows: Whispering Dawn becomes Angel’s Whisper, and Fey Illumination becomes Seraphic Illumination, However, these two are purely aesthetic changes." (LOL wut?)

I honestly don’t mind if the aim is to give healers a proper identity, as in, their role is to heal and do little else.

What I do mind is if I barely have to do any healing and I’m in a situation where my dps abilities are very weak, not at all varied and barely contribute anything, then I’m neither one nor the other.

I guess I’m trying to say I don’t want to be just standing around waiting to do some healing, to then stand around until the next bit of healing is required.

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Originally Posted by OpheliaHeartilly

So true! Honestly-- I was reading about all the changes, and then I watched the showcase video with all the healers explained... and my brain went numb. My fav part in the video was when the translator said "While Seraph is summoned, faerie actions are changed as follows: Whispering Dawn becomes Angel’s Whisper, and Fey Illumination becomes Seraphic Illumination, However, these two are purely aesthetic changes." (LOL wut?)

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Feels me with joy that they wasted resources on such a profound waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

I honestly don’t mind if the aim is to give healers a proper identity, as in, their role is to heal and do little else.

What I do mind is if I barely have to do any healing and I’m in a situation where my dps abilities are very weak, not at all varied and barely contribute anything, then I’m neither one nor the other.

I guess I’m trying to say I don’t want to be just standing around waiting to do some healing, to then stand around until the next bit of healing is required.

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What, didn't you guys want healer dancers? Now you can /dance in between heals!
/s

All I can say right now is Im really not happy with the removal of Aero III from WHM and Miasma and Miasma 2 from SCH I liked having a DOT dps action. Whats more annoying is now we have miasma 1 and 3 on smn but no 2, its asthetically odd to me.

Problem I see with healers is they made their offensive actions too bland now and I dont really like it very much.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

All I can say right now is Im really not happy with the removal of Aero III from WHM and Miasma and Miasma 2 from SCH I liked having a DOT dps action. Whats more annoying is now we have miasma 1 and 3 on smn but no 2, its asthetically odd to me.

Problem I see with healers is they made their offensive actions too bland now and I dont really like it very much.

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WHM get Dia to replace aero III for 720 potency over 30 seconds and Glare for Stone
link here

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Originally Posted by EvalcieChevallier

WHM get Dia to replace aero III for 720 potency over 30 seconds and Glare for Stone
link here

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Thats what makes me wonder. Was it so hard to split that Dia dot into 2 dot skills and balance them like that? Was it so difficult for bad players to throw two dots on a mob?

While Im ok with WHM changes, why remove dots from Scholar? Because of lore and sharing them with Summoner? Why not just simply make new dots and rename them? Because Scholar would be to strong DPS-wise than other healers? Just adjust the potencies and leave it like that.

I just simply dont understand the "throw 1 dot, spam your 250 potency magic" thing.

If healer damage contribution is pooped on like it appears to be, buckle down for some truly miserable dungeons with Bobby McNobuttons the 8 apm dps that can't rely on the healer to do his job for him.