Dear SE/Yoshida/Whichever rep bothers to read this.
You quite literally have no idea what you are doing with healers, or how they are played at a high level.
This was painfully evident with 4.0 and it's looking like 5.0 is going to be repeat of the same.
I cannot stress the following enough:
You desperately need to expand the job design team with a couple of individuals who have some enthusiasm, motivation and high level experience with the healer role.
The changes shown in the media build are simply not good enough.
Some quick notes and observations:
WHM's 5.0 upgrade consists of the things it should have gotten with 4.0. The PI change makes me think that SE still don't understand WHM's clipping woes and Misery isn't going to line up nicely. It's a good job SE saw fit to give them some party utility.... oh wait. They do have an advantage in raw dps potency across the board now, but I'm not particularly hopeful that it'll outweigh AST's cast time advantages.
As for SCH? I wonder how many SCHs at the very highest end of play are looking at these changes in disbelief. Critlo on a button is going to be interesting. Seraph looks pretty solid and I'm quietly hoping that fairy potency will work of your own stats thus scaling a little better. But that's literally all I've got. Outside of that, the job's skill ceiling just crashed hard. Fairy micromanagement is gone as is their DPS play. Enjoy your new expansion peoples, be grateful SE at least remembered to give you a spammable AoE this time round.
AST did relatively alright with CU being the most significant nerf that I can see. The new cards will offer a little less burst in exchange for a lot more consistency but at the expense of being able to use cards and CDs for MP. It's important to note that this could be an issue on par with WHM's MP starvation circa 3.4 or it could be a non issue. Redraw, Sleeve Draw and Minor Arcana are massive improvements and whilst personally I'm not a fan of the new draw/play mechanic, it'll be a positive change once hotkeys are jiggled a little bit. It's also noteworthy that AST still retain their cast time advantage with Malefic.
Tentative thumbs up for AST. WHM is still stuck firmly in the past. SCH's are getting flashbacks of 4.0.
I've said it many times but I think I need to say it again.
Printable View
-
05-29-2019, 11:19 PMSebazyI've said it many times but I think I need to say it again.
-
05-29-2019, 11:28 PMWhichi
I copy and pasted your forum post because its very true and square enix has no idea whats going on these healer changes are unbelievably bad this doesnt fix healer problems at all. You might as well have just buffed healers damage potencys or healing potencys and you would have the exact same thing happen. Unbelievable how terrible and disappointing this is.
-
05-29-2019, 11:38 PMJxnibbles
Kill 5.0 Healers so we can get a new Healer in 6.0.. Well at least Healers get unique mounts.
-
05-29-2019, 11:41 PMCommander_Justitia
Remember the outrage about 4.0 WHM, people called it dead class and whatever. Then it turned out to be not as bad once they played it.....
You are creating feedback/facts basically to something that isn't released yet, to skill information that are tentative - its highly speculative...
Then the clickbait title lmao, I feel like if anybody could please your own expectations - 95% of the community would hate it again -
05-29-2019, 11:48 PMDeceptusThere's nothing speculative about healers aoe moves being removed, and their damage kit consisting of nothing more than 1 dot, and one filler spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
-
05-29-2019, 11:48 PMSangheliosIn all honesty, WHM was utterly shit at the release of SB and was only fixed to an degree through the whole of the expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
-
05-29-2019, 11:56 PMfantasticmWHM has been The Undesirable for over two years. We've also been through two expansions now. People are right to be concerned considering SE rarely makes major changes (if any) during the pre-release window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
-
05-29-2019, 11:57 PMHyoMinParkAre you trying to imply that the Lily System was good? Because that was the largest complaint healers had by far about WHM (minus its continued lack of raid utility). We are now in Patch 4.58, and the Lily System still sucks. And WHM is still inferior to AST.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
WHM versus AST in 5.0 all hinges on whether or not AST's utility can out-do WHM's personal damage. If AST's utility still beats WHM, AST will still be desired over it. If WHM's personal damage beats AST, then it will probably kill AST. But we can't know that yet until we get our hands on some numbers. -
05-30-2019, 12:01 AMSebazyLook back through my post history around 4.0's press preview:Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
I firmly disagreed with the whole Woe is WHM movement back then and was strongly of the opinion that WHM was actually in a comparatively ok spot. However I was also very much of the mind that SCH was going to face some serious issues at all levels of content upon 4.0's release if the media build wasn't changed further. I'd say I was 2 for 2 on those predictions. The main clangers I made were suggesting preview PI might be useful (We never got a fight that used it) and that Earthly Star's potency would get nerfed (It never did, to be fair, it's pretty game changing as a result).
I actually think these changes aren't quite as harsh as the 4.0 ones were for SCH. But you're kidding yourself or you simply don't understand the job if you don't appreciate the impact they will have on it.
WHM will be in the same spot it's been in for a while now. fine and nothing more.
AST is harder to gauge. If the loss of self sustain hurts it, it could actually end up in quite a bad spot. This and the confusion over Divinity are the only real unknowns at this point.
And yeah, sorry for the clickbait title, I didn't want to make it too long =( -
05-30-2019, 12:01 AMEaMett
I was going to and still plan on making my own thread about this as well. I really want them to notice this shit so I'm willing to just add to the pile of unhappy threads. This is ridiculous.
I feel like the only healer coming out ok from this is AST and even then that's only because I'm willing to overlook the card changes since I have a hard time visualizing how they play. But considering they want to downplay utility I'm kinda giving it a pass until I get my hands on it.
But WHM and SCH changes are just a sign that they don't play or don't know how to play these classes.
Edit: I'm going to add that I feel a few of these changes don't have to do with actual gameplay but getting their stupid trust system to actually work on all healers (looking at you sch especially). Way to go designing classes around an AI and not actual gameplay 10/10 stupid move. -
05-30-2019, 12:04 AMSangheliosAs a AST main i can happily confirm you that ASTs changes are just as bad. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
-
05-30-2019, 12:04 AMSeraphorThe core healing kit for AST is looking a little better actually, with Neutral Sect and more aspected heals to work with it, plus Collective Unconscious still being the OP skill it already is.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
Cards have undoubtedly been dumbed down and nerfed, which I'm not too pleased about, but at least... it'll be consistent, no tossing unwanted ewers and spires, except for seals... -
05-30-2019, 12:07 AMHyoMinParkCollective Unconscious was nerfed in terms of its regen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
Its current regen potency is 150 for 15 seconds.
New tooltip has it at 50 potency for 15 seconds.
EDIT: Link to the image from GamerEscape with the tooltips. -
05-30-2019, 12:10 AMSebazy
CU took quite a hammering, CO's change is a bit of a half baked buff towards making up for that.
-
05-30-2019, 12:14 AMYuyuka3Just that the other two healers were fixed even more, bringing WHM right back to square 1...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanghelios
Also, I'm kinda glad my first message to this thread didn't go out because of bad internet...
But man, they seriously need to get people with an actual brain instead a potato in their heads on the healer balancing team. -
05-30-2019, 12:49 AMDeceptusAnd you still have to stand still? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAQuote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
-
05-30-2019, 01:09 AMMaltothoris
So who's gonna be rdy for patch 5.05 Major big buffs to the healers because of this? I'm usually pessimistic about the healer balance ever since 3.4 but this has only just reaffirmed that lack of trust right. The gutting of the sch dps, the unnecessary additions to healing for the whm. the cards being gelded for astro. There is just so much that doesn't seem pleasing at all. Well hopefully (1 in 100 chance) that the damage is being upscaled or something to make all those extra healing somewhat useful.
-
05-30-2019, 01:11 AMHyoMinParkFor CU? As far as I'm aware, I think it will still automatically apply the regen per the Patch 4.4 change. I can't imagine that they would take away that change going into the expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
-
05-30-2019, 01:15 AMNiroken
I'm pretty confused. I thought the entire purpose of restructuring the healer role was because of pure healing vs barrier healing and that was the reason we didn't get another healer because it would end up the same as AST (switching between both). From what I understand they did everything but fix that issue, the issue that Yoshi-P addressed himself.
-
05-30-2019, 01:17 AMfantasticmI expect SCH and AST to receive some potency buffs at the very least, perhaps even right out the gate. I would advise against hoping for any sort of buffs or changes regarding WHM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltothoris
-
05-30-2019, 01:18 AMSeraphorPotency doesn't mean anything at the moment with everything being recalculated.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
-
05-30-2019, 01:19 AMSeraphorYou never have to stand still... do you play AST?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
-
05-30-2019, 01:20 AMFiorinol
This is so disappointing. I don't even know if I'm going to level White Mage and I've done so two expansions. Feels like we're getting WHM 0.5, while AST is still WHM 2.0 Fflogs Turbo Edition. I don't think I'm going to level WHM first this expansion, or even bother using it much. It has even less mobility than before unless you count the instant healing spells, which a lot of the time you're not going to use at all.
Can't say I understand the CU nerf either, or the way the card system works. From the looks of it, you're going to need to fish super hard for 3 seals by the time 5 GCDs roll in to use divination to match raid window. That's certainly going to be unenjoyable -
05-30-2019, 02:58 AMVivian_Vex
In the end those that have the common sense to want to try it for themselves before condemning it will be the ones to enjoy the wait for the next expansion.
It makes this all so much nicer than everyone complaining on and on and on about how "healers are ruined" now. -
05-30-2019, 04:00 AMdisplayedThe main theme of AST--drawing random cards with a wide array of effects--has been obliterated beyond recognition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex
The new AST might be okay but it's just not going to be the same class any more. Might as well change the job name. -
05-30-2019, 04:02 AMKabooa"Hey it's a bole." *Royal Roads*Quote:
Originally Posted by displayed
"Hey it's a Spire." *Royal Roads*
"Hey it's an Ewer." *royal roads*
"Hey it's an Arrow!" *looks around* *no black mage* *Royal Roads*
"Hey it's a Balance!" *YES AOE BALANCE TIME*
"Hey it's a Spear!" *puts into Spread for Bard* -
05-30-2019, 04:22 AMForteNightshadeIt does when the potency for Scared Soil utterly dwarfs Collective. No matter what they do scaling wise, SS will utterly destroy CU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
-
05-30-2019, 04:54 AMDaralii
It's blatantly clear that every example of good class design has been a complete fluke. The entire class design team(and probably Yoshida, since coincidentally every job that looks promising is one he has a personal interest) would likely have to be replaced to stop the infinite regression of garbage that happens every couple years.