10k mp isnt enough

I can see why healing will be a main priority in SB, if healing spells that matter cost 10 to 15% of 10k we will be draining our mp to to heal only. now if Lucid dream gives back 50% of my MP on a 120sec CD and we have a decent regen tick, then ill will be happy. i can feel the pain of healing new tanks who doesn't know what is a CD or selfish tanks who focus on damage first, mitigation only when in trouble of death.

I'm sure costs will be adjusted to compensate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

I'm sure costs will be adjusted to compensate.

---

the worry with that is if they do that the power of the heal or spell will also be droped with how it is the spell costing more because its stronger than when you got it. from what ive seen anyways if not then the spelp cost shouldnt increase from its start cost

I'm... not quite sure what you are on about?
I got over 16k MP without even trying, what makes you think we'll only have 10k MP at level 80? Also, at least when looking at WHM, the MP management skills don't seem to disappear or get weakened at all, so...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

I'm... not quite sure what you are on about?
I got over 16k MP without even trying, what makes you think we'll only have 10k MP at level 80? Also, at least when looking at WHM, the MP management skills don't seem to disappear or get weakened at all, so...

---

They specifically stated all jobs have 10k mp in the LL and piety is being adjusted to increase mp Regen rates.

I'm pretty sure they covered this in the live letter that MP costs are/were just set percents shown as number values as you leveled and as the MP number increased, so did the cost. With 10k, the math stays more simple to calculate without getting into really... dumb amounts of numbers for no reason. Piety is no longer going to give more MP for healers, and hasn't given any but healers any MP since SB's launch if I recall correctly. (Feel free to correct me if I'm just dumb)

Lots of red flags being thrown up by people without any need. So far I've heard nothing but "I can't want to tell you all about everything we seen" from those who attended the media tour, which we will be getting told about on the 29th when the embargo is lifted officially.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

They specifically stated all jobs have 10k mp in the LL and piety is being adjusted to increase mp Regen rates.

---

Didn't see the life letter due to work (10am during a work day is... slightly unfortunate timing, but cannot make it right for everyone, sadly) and nobody telling me that in their recap, so I didn't know that. Well, that's... interesting, I guess.

However, if Piety affects MP regen rates, then that might be the answer of how we to function properly despite the higher costs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

I'm... not quite sure what you are on about?
I got over 16k MP without even trying, what makes you think we'll only have 10k MP at level 80? Also, at least when looking at WHM, the MP management skills don't seem to disappear or get weakened at all, so...

---

during the live letter 51 Yoshi said all jobs will be locked at 10k mp

It's way too early to doomsay the healer MP game, and in theory it'll be no different than having the 25000-something mp you have now, just with smaller numbers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syphin_Polaris

I'm pretty sure they covered this in the live letter that MP costs are/were just set percents shown as number values as you leveled and as the MP number increased, so did the cost. With 10k, the math stays more simple to calculate without getting into really... dumb amounts of numbers for no reason. Piety is no longer going to give more MP for healers, and hasn't given any but healers any MP since SB's launch if I recall correctly. (Feel free to correct me if I'm just dumb)

Lots of red flags being thrown up by people without any need. So far I've heard nothing but "I can't want to tell you all about everything we seen" from those who attended the media tour, which we will be getting told about on the 29th when the embargo is lifted officially.

---

i dont put anything past Yoshi Team, these people are working hard to give the people great content, but it seems for the last 2 expansion they had to adjust the SCH mp cost for Adlo and Succor after the content been out for months. Now for seasonal SCH we worked around it, but for the leaks i have seen and for over 90% of these leaks to be correct the mp cost i saw for Adlo scared me since i love to DPS during my downtime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lordcruxis

It's way too early to doomsay the healer MP game, and in theory it'll be no different than having the 25000-something mp you have now, just with smaller numbers

---

I don’t know of any healer currently with 25,000 MP. Even with full Piety melds/full Piety gear... Most sit at ~18,000-ish.

We’ll just have to see. It all depends on the MP cost of our spells (healing and DPS spells), refresh rate of in-combat MP regen, and the refresh rate of our MP cooldowns (it seems Lucid Dreaming is still a thing—Mana Shift is gone though; haven’t heard much about Refresh). Not sure how well the refresh rate on the new Piety will be—if it will be worth it to meld that as opposed to other substats. We’ll just have to wait and see.

People also seem to forget that healers have actions to help avoid all or some MP costs being used, (i.e. Thin Air, Lightspeed, Aetherflow), along with Lucid and Refresh capabilities. Once spell MP costs are adjusted it'll be just like how we are playing now, nothing much to worry about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kobe-sabi

i dont put anything past Yoshi Team, these people are working hard to give the people great content, but it seems for the last 2 expansion they had to adjust the SCH mp cost for Adlo and Succor after the content been out for months. Now for seasonal SCH we worked around it, but for the leaks i have seen and for over 90% of these leaks to be correct the mp cost i saw for Adlo scared me since i love to DPS during my downtime.

---

Ah, I have not seen much regarding scholars on the leaks/information we have so far. I don't really play healers ever so it is far from something I knowledgeable in. I have all my jobs to 70 so I have at least a general understanding of how jobs work and interact with their abilities and other players but that's as far as that goes for me and healers. I will admit the costs for abilities I have actually seem are pretty steep, example being drk's skills costing 3k across the board, but these are still just media builds we've seen for the expansion, and who knows what may or may not change.

I do wholeheartedly hope the jobs and game changes are for the better for everyone, because it is really saddening to see certain jobs shunned in areas because they are just out shined by another job in their role. The jobs I've seen so far that I do like playing have seemed interesting so I'm trying to stay optimistic for the other jobs too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurando

People also seem to forget that healers have actions to help avoid all or some MP costs being used, (i.e. Thin Air, Lightspeed, Aetherflow), along with Lucid and Refresh capabilities. Once spell MP costs are adjusted it'll be just like how we are playing now, nothing much to worry about.

---

aetherflow, lightspeed doesnt give free cast lol it decresses cost for a short bit also it weakns the cure ability . thin air is the only way 2 get free cost lol

Everything is % based and balanced accordingly, the devs said that themselves. The only reason for the change is to unify MP across jobs and 10k is a nice round number.

SWTOR has a similar system for their jedi/sith casters/healers.

Force is capped at 100 and you have to work with that, of course it would regen at a set rate. Problem is, you'd find yourself OOM very quickly and often if you weren't careful.

Point is, now that they've capped MP, they absolutely have to balance MP costs or healers won't be able to do their jobs. That is my main concern. SE has shows moments of brilliance with balance, and moments of sheer stupidity with balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

aetherflow, lightspeed doesnt give free cast lol it decresses cost for a short bit also it weakns the cure ability. thin air is the only way 2 get free cost lol

---

This is incorrect. Lightspeed does not half the potency of your heals. Back in HW, it cut the potency of your damage spells by 25%, but never healing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

aetherflow, lightspeed doesnt give free cast lol it decresses cost for a short bit also it weakns the cure ability . thin air is the only way 2 get free cost lol

---

Read what I said "avoid all or some MP costs", I never said everything was free casts. Also as Hyomin said, healing is not reduced during Lightspeed, please read your tooltips.

Dont mp costs already scale with your mp anyway?
It's already a % based system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

Dont mp costs already scale with your mp anyway?
It's already a % based system.

---

The costs are a percentage of base maxMP, but healers can increase maxMP with Piety.

The devs want to make it easier to calculate "how many spells can I cast at full MP?" or "how many spells can I cast now?". This is far easier to do if everyone has 10k maxMP and spells all cost some multiple of 100 MP. And to make up for the healers losing the ability to increase their maxMP, Piety will instead increase their latent refresh rate so that Piety will still allow them to cast more spells before going OOM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurando

People also seem to forget that healers have actions to help avoid all or some MP costs being used, (i.e. Thin Air, Lightspeed, Aetherflow), along with Lucid and Refresh capabilities. Once spell MP costs are adjusted it'll be just like how we are playing now, nothing much to worry about.

---

SCH are losing one of their main MP regenerators in Energy Drain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I don’t know of any healer currently with 25,000 MP. Even with full Piety melds/full Piety gear... Most sit at ~18,000-ish.

We’ll just have to see. It all depends on the MP cost of our spells (healing and DPS spells), refresh rate of in-combat MP regen, and the refresh rate of our MP cooldowns (it seems Lucid Dreaming is still a thing—Mana Shift is gone though; haven’t heard much about Refresh). Not sure how well the refresh rate on the new Piety will be—if it will be worth it to meld that as opposed to other substats. We’ll just have to wait and see.

---

Indeed, but one my biggest problems with SE regarding FFXIV is how much they try to hide information. If you could hover over a substat and have it say, "increases your mana regenration by X amount every 3 seconds" it would go a long way, but here we are 5 years after ARR and we still don't have that info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

However, if Piety affects MP regen rates, then that might be the answer of how we to function properly despite the higher costs.

---

That's my hope as well :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Everything is % based and balanced accordingly, the devs said that themselves. The only reason for the change is to unify MP across jobs and 10k is a nice round number.

---

And it is already this way in PvP too. I'm guessing costs will likely be around those costs, not the current 3600 for a raise at 70.

There was also a change to Lucid Dreaming but not gonna say anything until Wednesday.

Of all the battle system changes that are coming, this one worries me the least. MP cost has always been percentile to max MP. Apply those same figures with 10k max MP in mind and done deal. PIE will likely factor in the same as well. They will use a formula to figure out what percentage of MP players can add at any particular level, and add that number plus some change to match the additional MP it gives you over the course of the average time of various duty clears. The quicker MP generation should also be advantageous should you be KO'd and raised in battle. At least on paper.

yes mp cost are scale to mp pool, but for the last 2 expansions they had to fix SCH Adlo and Succors we were being over charged for less effect. HW they lessen it, then SB they lessen it more and adjusted the shield. they have a formula for mp, but when it came to SCH the formula never worked for it plus they nerfed the mp returned form Atherflow. they gave us Lucid dream but it sucked compared to the mp i was getting back from Atherflow, we would get double of what LD would gives us in LD cooldown, this was needed since Sch spells has the biggest cost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syphin_Polaris

I will admit the costs for abilities I have actually seem are pretty steep, example being drk's skills costing 3k across the board, but these are still just media builds we've seen for the expansion, and who knows what may or may not change.

---

Well that's gonna be like PLD and Clemency - It cost a lot of MP (before trait) but you got combo that generate MP. Now they remove aggro combo, so both DRK/PLD will get MP from main combo (guessing) to fuel those skills.
Your skills can drain MP, so with Blood Price, you can recover MP fast and spam those skills for Burst DPS - mostly in AOE situtations - together with Siphon and Blood Weapon, you'll have large MP recovery.
Blood Weapon/Price might share CD though, or one is removed.

Yeah, MP cap is a complete non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

MP costs are already percentile based, so the only change really is that Piety won't be increasing your pool and will instead be increasing MP regen.

Of course, this also means that MP restoration skills are being relatively buffed. Since things like Lucid and Refresh (Also Elixirs if that's a thing you use) deal flat amounts of restoration not percentage based.

The only things that are taking a hit, MP restoration wise are percentage based restores, like Aetherflow, Assize and also The Ewer (Since cards are being reworked...) - That is, unless they are being adjusted and/or considered with the change.

I think this is one of those things that Yoshi was on about when he said "He didn't want to leak any of the changes early, because some of the changes might not make sense without seeing the complete picture"

MP standardization should simply mean that MP restoration effects are easier to balance, since everyone will get the same benefit from everything. As opposed to things like healers getting less out of Refresh/Lucid because of their larger MP pools than the Mages that don't have Piety as a stat to bolster their MP.

I actually prefer having a set MP pool like casters have, although I wish Piety was changed for something more insteresting.

Anyway, 10 000 or 18 000 : it's the same. You'll use Lucid Dreaming every minute now. And we will still have Lightspeed, Thin Air and Aetherflow to iron things out.

Hmm... With a MP capped at 9,999 (lo leave it more FF'ish), using oGCD heals and avoid using GCD heals will be even more important if that healer really wants do DPS. The game will be slightly harder, adding again worries about MP economy.

If, right now a spell costs 2,500MP and we have 25k max MP, after the patch, said spell will probably cost 1000MP.

No matter how you roll the dice, you can still cast it 10 times before you run out of MP. I don't really see the problem here. In fact, I LIKE that the numbers are shrinking. But then if Piety gives MPRegen then maybe the cost is more like 1200 so you can't cast it 10 times straight up but maybe by the time you go to cast the 10th you'll have just enough to do so.

In fact, they already do this in PvP already, have numbers capped at certain amounts and costs adjusted to compensate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

If, right now a spell costs 2,500MP and we have 25k max MP, after the patch, said spell will probably cost 1000MP.

No matter how you roll the dice, you can still cast it 10 times before you run out of MP. I don't really see the problem here. In fact, I LIKE that the numbers are shrinking. But then if Piety gives MPRegen then maybe the cost is more like 1200 so you can't cast it 10 times straight up but maybe by the time you go to cast the 10th you'll have just enough to do so.

In fact, they already do this in PvP already, have numbers capped at certain amounts and costs adjusted to compensate.

---

Right now as a SCH, I have 17,386 MP at ilvl 396. Basic Physic is 600 mana. That's 3.45% of total MP. So if scaling is right, the basic physic shouldn't be anything more than 345 MP based on a max MP of 10K.

Adlo, our mana intense spell is 8.9% of total MP per cast (1560 out of 17,386) so it should be around 890 mp in ShB.

Anything more than that and you're starting to get into balance issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Right now as a SCH, I have 17,386 MP at ilvl 396. Basic Physic is 600 mana. That's 3.45% of total MP. So if scaling is right, the basic physic shouldn't be anything more than 345 MP based on a max MP of 10K.

Adlo, our mana intense spell is 8.9% of total MP per cast (1560 out of 17,386) so it should be around 890 mp in ShB.

Anything more than that and you're starting to get into balance issues.

---

As a reminder, mpcost % seem to be based off of Base MP at your level, so as a WHM with no Pie gear, I have ~15,000(14,880)MP and Cure costs 600MP or 4% of my (base)MP, adjusting that to 10k MP the cost would be 400MP for Cure II, our most expensive spell, Raise, is 3,600MP or 24% of our MP, again adjusted to 10k would be 2,400MP... interesting because the math does add up to the leaks we have seen