question about aoe ing as BRD

this is all assuming the tank pull 6+ enemy in one go

should i just quick nock non stop or apply both poison debuff on every each enemy? quick nock is simple and easy, this is what i usually do.

someone in my party suggest me to put both debuff on every enemy, when i try it the enemy already dying by the time i finish putting all the debuff thus i feel like iam doing nothing, and by that time the previous debuff is already out too so i need to reapply it again.

which one yield more dps in aoe situation? can someone help?

As far as I'm aware, it should be something like Apply DoT's to one target (Preferably one that will live the longest) > Mage's Ballad > Quick Nock + Rain of Death spam.

I mean, if we do some rather simple math (I.e. Not taking into account extra MB procs) then Quick Nock is doing 110 potency x the number of enemies per cast.

So if we say there are 6 enemies, that means each GCD spent on Quick Nock is doing 660 potency.

If lasting its full duration each DoT will only do 120 + 450 = 570 potency.

Which means that per GCD, Quick Nock is outperforming the ideal situation (Where a target lives for 30 seconds to take the full effect of the DoT)

Of course, depending on crit chance, it might be worth trying to DoT up a second target for more MB procs, though it gets a little harder to math that out...

But the overall theme seems to suggest: If the targets aren't expected to live for 30+ seconds, don't bother with multi-DoTs and just get the one set up to get some Song procs in. Even more so if you don't have Mage's Ballad ready because that's the only song that provides significant AoE damage increase.

Not including bonus damage from skill speed, Venomous Bite is 340 potency and Windbite is 360. Caustic Bite is 570 and Stormbite is 670. Quick Nock is 110 per target and Rain of Death is 100 per target. So with the weaker DoTs, if you have three targets, you should definitely put both dots up on everything.

It's a little harder to say with the stronger dots, since they don't tick much harder, just longer. This means you can't always count on the full 30s duration when dotting a lot of targets, whereas you could usually count on the 18s dots ticking completely. But it's worth putting up at least Stormbite on a few targets so you can get Ballad procs to reset Rain of Death. Those extra 100/e free oGCD AoEs are delicious.

I don't have a detailed explanation but...
What I do is dot one, usually the one that looks like it won't die as fast as the others, use Mages and rain of death and set up a couple more dots before using quick knock and of course use rain of death as it procs but that should be a given :)

that... actually a good idea. it never occur to me to just dot one or two enemy that wont die in seconds then continue with my quick nock while doing mage ballad proc (if the song is up)

but yeah, if it low level dungeon i think its definitely better to just quick nock anyway, considering both debuff only last 18 seconds

Probably the most important tenets of AOE BRD:
• Put Straight Shot up first. I know you get used to doing Straight Shot AFTER your DoTs once you learn Iron Jaws, but that doesn't really jive with AOE pulls (unless there's one big beefy target in there, then feel free to do an Iron Jaws opener).
• Unless your tank sucks, you should be able to start applying DoTs as soon as the tank has done some action to the pack, even if they're still running to pull more.
• Mage's Ballad > Army's Paeon > Wanderer's Minuet*
• Don't forget to use Raging Strikes (preferably during peak RoD + Quick Nock spam). Foe Requiem too, if you can squeeze it in there; I usually forget.
• Invigorate and Tactician are your best friends.

Here's what I do, personally (in Lv70 duties, anyway):
Mage's Ballad: I usually put Windbite on everything (as much during the pull as I can). Once the tank stops moving, I hit Mage's Ballad. Spam Quick Nock once all the Windbites are applied. If there's one or two strong targets, then I'll apply both DoTs there, and make sure those don't fall off. If there's LOTS of targets, I generally stop adding more dots around ~6 Windbites; Mage's Ballad doesn't benefit from multiple procs at once. If the pull isn't mostly dead by the time Mage's Ballad is about to expire, I might try to Iron Jaws a few targets to prep for the next song.

*Bonus aside:

If Mage's Ballad falls off, but the pack is still-alive-but-almost-dead, and I know the next pull is AOE as well, then I'll pop Wanderer's Minuet at this point. It makes sure I still have a song up, but doesn't waste Army's Paeon, since I'll want that fresh for the next pull.

If that song isn't available...
Army's Paeon: I maybe spread 4 Windbites around. It'll hit 4-stacks soon enough. If this is the same pull as the Mage's Ballad one, then I may just need to Iron Jaws a couple targets. Quick Nock, Quick Nock, Quick Nock.

Oh, I see we're pulling back-to-back-to-back AOE pulls, huh...
Wanderer's Minuet: High TP: Spread several WindBites around. Low TP: I just apply the 2 DoTs to the strongest target. TP is probably really low at this point. Cut song short when Mage's Ballad is back up. If TP is dangerously low, focus on applying DoTs to conserve TP (and to prep for Mage's Ballad).


Once you've done enough AOE pulls, you just kind-of get a feel for what seems right based on how strong the targets are, how many there are, how many bulky targets are present, how much TP (and TP restoring cooldowns) you have, which songs are currently available, whether your tank is competent, etc. Different BRDs will apply different amounts of DoTs. You do you.


ShadowBringers is coming soon, and with it the removal of TP. This advice is sure to change soon, depending on how they handle that.


Does anyone know what happens if you pair Barrage with Quick Nock? Does it hit everything multiple times? Just the main target?

During pulls this is my method :
Straight Shot (while tank is moving) > Swap target
Venom / Windbite (before tank stops) > Swap Target
Repeat Dot on new Target > Swap, Repeat, Swap

When the tank stops moving that's when I stop using Dots and do : Raging Strikes, Mage's Ballad, Rain, Emp Arrow (resets Rain CD), Quick Noct a couple times and Iron Jaw something back up for Dots if it's taking more than 30 seconds to down the group, whenever Rain procs off a crit tick, I use it. If you gank aggro I'll just blow through Brotherhood to reset emnity. No one runs out of TP anymore unless everyone is AoE'ing and even then it's just a trash pull and your TP is gonna reset to full before the next group anyway. I'll repeat that method the same way with Army's except I'll mix in Quick Noct rather than relying on Rain proc'ing. If you have a mage, I'll Foe Req, but other than that, I leave it out of the rotation unless I see the healer trying to dps.

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Unless your tank sucks, you should be able to start applying DoTs as soon as the tank has done some action to the pack, even if they're still running to pull more.

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ah yes this, happen a lot.

Preferably you'd want to cycle through and DoT each enemy. If you do everything correctly, Quick Nock shouldn't be needed at all. Though between levels 45-64 it might see more usage since the DoT timer is shorter. More DoTs means more chances for a proc. It might sound strange, but good Bard AoE relies on their single target skills.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

If you do everything correctly, Quick Nock shouldn't be needed at all.

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I disagree with this, and I want to address it, because I know a lot of Bards who operate like this. I always get frustrated in large pulls if I don't see a BRD absolutely guzzling their TP.

Lets assume we have a crit rate of 25% (idk what the normal crit rate is). Assume we're dealing with Mage's Ballad only, and keep in mind that Mage's Ballad does not benefit from multiple Repertoire procs per tick (with rare exceptions, all DoTs tick at the same time every 3 seconds). Also assume we're past the point where DoTs last 30sec.

{ 1 - ([.75 chance that a DoT won't happen] ^ [# of DoTs]) } = % chance of a repertoire proc
1 DoT - 25% chance of resetting RoD
2 DoTs - 44% chance of resetting RoD
3 DoTs - 58% chance of resetting RoD
4 DoTs - 70% chance of resetting RoD
5 DoTs - 76% chance of resetting RoD
6 DoTs - 82% chance of resetting RoD
7 DoTs - 86% chance of resetting RoD
8 DoTs - 90% chance of resetting RoD
9 DoTs - 92.5% chance of resetting RoD
10 DoTs - 94% chance of resetting RoD

At a certain point, there's no reason to keep adding more DoTs to the pile when you could instead be hitting a button that does 110 potency damage to every target. I won't tell you what number you should stop at (I'm not certain, myself), but in the OP's example of 6 targets, attempting to spread 12 DoTs is super overkill.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

At a certain point, there's no reason to keep adding more DoTs to the pile when you could instead be hitting a button that does 110 potency damage to every target. I won't tell you what number you should stop at (I'm not certain, myself), but in the OP's example of 6 targets, attempting to spread 12 DoTs is super overkill.

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Spreading just Stormbite on all of 6 targets would probably be reasonable, though. That's just slightly more damage than Quick Nock, much cheaper, and can be done while still gathering mobs. Caustic Bite if the tank is still running and you've used Stormbite on all the current targets, but once stationary stick with Quick Nock.

Well, that was an unexpected addition in the live letter. When ShB hits, if Rain of Death is changed to stack multiple charges (Charged Action System), then more DoTs more DoTs more DoTs (during Mage's Ballad, at least).