Imagine you're on the design team for 2.0 and are creating all the current Jobs and instead of recreating the class system, you turned those 9 base classes into full jobs completely unique from their existing "Job Upgrades".
What would you do?
What weapons would each job use?
What role would they have?
Personally, I'd have done something like this:
Arcanist - Magical DPS - Rods
* Uses Dark magic. Focus on skills such as Syphon, Drain, Dark, Gravity, Shadowflare.
Archer - Ranged DPS - Bows
* Deals Piercing damage. Many attacks deal damage in a line.
Bard - Healer - Instruments (Harps, Flutes, Lutes etc)
* Uses songs to empower allies and restore health. Bonus: Skill sounds and animations change depending on what Instrument is currently equipped.
Black Mage - Magical DPS - Staves
* Uses unaspected Black Magics such as Scathe, Ultima, Meteor, Comet, Scourge
Conjurer - Magical DPS - Wands
* Harnesses the power of the Elements to defeat foes. Utilizes various elemental spells such as Fire, Water, Blizzard, Stone, Aero and Thunder.
Dragoon - Melee DPS - Spears
* Utilizes jump attacks to deal devastating damage to foes.
Gladiator - Melee DPS - Sword and Buckler
* An aggressive fighter that puts out constant pressure, even using its shield offensively.
Lancer - Tank - Lance and Shield
* A defensive fighter, able to maintain its shield while still being able to thrust at enemies with their lance
Marauder - Melee DPS - Dual Wield Axes
* A savage fighter that will go into a rage to deal (Also take) bonus damage.
Monk - Melee DPS - Bo Staves
* A methodical fighter that "Dances" between strikes, while empowering them with Chakra.
Ninja - Ranged DPS - Shuriken
* Utilizing Ninjutsu as well as their Shuriken, this job can stay highly mobile while dealing damage from afar.
Paladin - Tank - Flail and Tower Shield
* A stalwart protector that can use curative magics to sustain themselves and their allies.
Pugilist - Tank - Fists
* A highly evasive fighter, that can deal rapid blows to enemies. Can even strike so fast that they create shockwaves in the air.
Rogue - Melee DPS - Daggers
* A blade in the dark, can take advantage of opponents and deal heavy damage while being able to hide in plain sight. Focus on dancing into and out of Stealth to use a variety of powerful skills.
Scholar - Healer - Books
* Research into Fey magics allows this job to summon Fairies and Pixies and utilize their unique magics to heal and harm.
Summoner - Magical DPS - Allagan Tomestones
* Uses ancient Allagan technology to aid them with summoning Demi versions of Primals to devastate their foes.
Thaumaturge - Healer - Spellblades
* A debilitating caster that will siphon the very life out of their opponents to replenish their allies. Focus on spells such as Bio, Poison, Dread Spikes, Zombie, Pain as well as some direct healing skills.
Warrior - Tank - Greataxe
* A ferocious fighter, utilizing their Inner Beast to increase their life total and unleash vicious blows with their axe.
White Mage - Healer - Staves
* Utilizes Holy magic to protect and replenish allies or to smite foes.
What if Classes were Jobs?
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05-18-2019, 09:54 PMKaliseWhat if Classes were Jobs?
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05-19-2019, 01:02 AMbass9020
I actually really love all the ideas! I could try and come up with some but so far I think you hit the nail on most! :)
I would love for the classes to breakaway from the jobs, the original classes were very interesting and had some really unique abilities back in the day. -
05-19-2019, 03:09 AMlinay
I don't really have any idea about class/job design, but I would say if there is only job or only class (so no upgrade of any kind), I would agree, but the guilds would have to be reimagined. Instead of having specific guilds, I would just have the adventurer guild be the sole trainer for multiple classes/jobs. That way you can add as many new class/job with new expansions and each of them can be the starter class/job instead of having to level a different class/job first.
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05-19-2019, 03:46 AMMsQi
If classes were jobs you'd just stay in school forever!! :D
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05-19-2019, 04:10 AMNyvaraI would love to stay an archer instead of being shoehorned into bard so I didn't gimp myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
All really great ideas, OP. It would be like getting new jobs with out really getting new jobs! Lancer seemed interesting it would then give each starting city a tank. -
05-19-2019, 05:36 AMKaliseYeah... I felt the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyvara
Leveling up Archer was cool and I loved shooting things full of arrows (Even if ACH/BRD gameplay is terrible until level 68 >.>)
Then at level 30 my character randomly becomes Prince Herbert
Though, these changes would never happen, as they'd require massive overhauls of the majority of the jobs, all the guilds in the game as well as all the Job quests...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyvara
I didn't think of it that way... But yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyvara
With these changes, each City State has a Tank and Healer from level 1.
Limsa would have Warrior + Scholar
Ul'dah would have Paladin + Pugilist + Thaumaturge
Gridania would have Lancer + White Mage + Bard
It would also flesh out most of the job roles... With only Ranged DPS being a little empty (Aside from the incoming Dancer)
Tanks:
Dark Knight
Gunbreaker
Lancer
Paladin
Pugilist
Warrior
Healers:
Bard
Scholar
Thaumaturge
White Mage
Melee DPS:
Dragoon
Marauder
Monk
Rogue
Samurai
Ranged DPS:
Archer
Dancer
Machinist
Ninja
Magical DPS:
Arcanist
Black Mage
Blue Mage
Conjurer
Red Mage
Summoner -
05-20-2019, 11:11 AMShurrikhan
Well, been rooting for this since 1.2 when I figured "Why 'advance' to a job, if there's literally no other viable choice?". You have my upvote for the concept.
I have to which people would prefer...- Having a second job from each class.
(Two choices per class.) Everything not related to the job's distinct theme, such as Song or Machinery or Ninja Arts or Sword Spirit or Dragon Arts or Dark Arts or Wrath/Abandon, etc, is now carried by the class itself.
Archer -> Ranger / Bard.
Gunner -> Gambler / MachinistArcher has access to Empyreal Arrow and the like. Bard, however, retains unique access to Iron Jaws and potential extended DoTs through synergy with Foe Requiem or whatnot. Bard's raid and point-support functionality greatly deepened. Ranger instead takes an offensive-support role more similar to Ninja, focused in equal parts on debuffing for damage or harassment and hellish nuking. it has unique access to several other fun and impactful "hunting", "survivalist" and "marksmanship" related skills that distinguish the Ranger from the common Archer.
Gladiator -> Champion / PaladinWhile the Machinist learns how to, in effect, make more or better guns in the form of turrets and augmentations, the Gambler learns how to put them to better use. A job for all your Statistics majors or those who just want the high of thinking they control the chaos bursting from them. (Technically, you do have quite a bit of control over quite a bit, but there's just so much more now. Design emphasis on feeling the highs of procs made than the lulls of procs failed.)
Rogue -> Thief / NinjaThe Champion builds on his personal defense and firepower, finding the greatest application for lesser but more frequent mitigation and utility where the Paladin instead invests towards raid support and off-tank tools. Neither is a better MT or OT, per se, than the other, save perhaps at certain points in their rhythms as they mesh with their co-tank. However, they play quite differently, with the Paladin having a more stark macrorotation but less variance in the minutia of the rotation strings themselves while the Champion has far more available to it in the short term, though it must prepare itself rotationally to deal with the same things Paladin can often deal with on demand (albeit at cost of a cooldown).
All of Ninja's combat skills save for Dream Within a Dream (now revised to take advantage of Shades produced by Ninja's Shadow skills) moved to Rogue. Smokescreen and Shukuchi (renamed Vanishment) also moved to Rogue. Mug remains shared by Thief and Ninja, but Thief takes this way, way further, as the basis for stolen skills (well, technically items), synthesis of said items, and brilliant use of said synthesized items. Ninja compared to Thief as a Monk might compare to Machinist or Dragoon; it's the more sustained option for damage, harassment, and self-preservation. Thief is the more decisive, strategic, and tricky of the two. It deals little damage of its own, but the effects of its actions equate to a great deal of damage, and not just through rDPS. When a Thief says "In 10 seconds, I'm going to blow the mech's arm off" when this would normally require the side-effect of a LB's worth of damage, you take it seriously and get ready for the vulnerability state that this will cause. When you've spent one too many heavy cooldowns and the Scholar's already shielded you, you hope like hell the Thief's held onto the items necessary to build something right now to save you.
- The class itself acts as a second job.
(Quite a few choices per class.) Taking the job crystal reduces the number and depth of your choices selectable from among A, B, and C, which in turn could give your Rogue the like of Assassin, Swashbuckler, or Thief and gives you X, Ninja Arts.
- Classes offer more customization than jobs, including (uniquely) from outside one's own class. One's own classes' traits are enough to meet the total number of traits that can be active at a time, meaning you don't get free skills just for leveling other classes, but you do get far more options... unless you dive fully into optimizing around your own class's toolkit via your Job.
(Huge number choices per class.) As a Lancer, I can take various gameplay-producing or mechanical traits from nearly every job, and have access to a handful in total. I can become an "Adept" (community name), taking aspects from Pugilist, Rogue, and especially Conjurer via its Wind traits. Taking these costs me some of my own class's trait options, but, honestly, not all of those traits suit my needs and so that's fine. (I mean, I get to be a wind-running spear dude with fun utilities who's viable in most contexts until the cutting edge of play.) But, as a Dragoon, I only get access to two class's skills with which to trade out my own, and all more core class traits are locked in (probably for the best). Every additional slot/choice I'd get is instead automatically spent on Dragoon stuff.
You know what, have a strawpoll for all that. - Having a second job from each class.
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05-20-2019, 04:59 PMSeraphor
"Well, been rooting for this since 1.2 when I figured "Why 'advance' to a job, if there's literally no other viable choice?".*"
Because Final Fantasy.
It's the job class promotion from FF1, and is supposed to give a sense of progression.
Of course at this stage in the game, level 30 isnt a halfway mark and is in fact the very start of the gane, so its lost its effect. -
05-20-2019, 10:06 PMADVSS
Well a while ago I had come up with a very similar system in my head for what if they had kept the cross class system, added jobs, but threw it in a ff11 esque blender. after creating some obscure number of "prestige jobs" i figured 70 sonething would be way too much
it did, however cover every single niche possible, from turning a fighter to paladin or darkknight, to turning a darkknight into a deathknight(necromancer knight). The idea is very similar to OP but maybe is a bit more extensive, like 7 dow 7 dom and the ff11 thing would be like every 10 -15 levels you add a new "class" onto the spec, eventually having knights that can use xtype of magic, etc.
By new class you can choose to go to another class to learn it too or just get mastery in a higher tier of the same class, granting abilites like dual wield, heavy shields and armor, etc. when enough mixing was going on you would get some prereq "job abilities" that related to your path of mixed classes. -
05-20-2019, 10:47 PMXenociderOmega
Math class would be op
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05-21-2019, 12:35 AMMaraD_
Thinking on it, I dont think all classes should be jobs, but I do think some should be.
I dont think all jobs or classes should have secondary roles, but some should.
I dont think they should all have the same experience. (Just to varry it up a little.)
And classes/jobs shouldnt be locked to a single weapon,a s this creates development issues down the road. (mostly in the number of weapons needing to be made every patch/expansion)
Here's my list, based on future proofing other jobs not out yet, but always could be out eventually.
2.0
GLA GLA would be to PLD what BLU is to other jobs. It's focus is money making, by doing mini solo trials at the arena fights. It's an easier class to DPS as than PLD, but can still upgrade to PLD once it reaches a certain Arena tier. This isnt locked to "level" but performance in the Arena (Which is "technically" soft locked to a level, in order to win the fights) I would give them any weapon, but in japanese they are blade masters, so all bladed weapons. They are a DPS ONLY in dungeons, and cant be in raids. It shares its level with PLD. The level range they should be able to unlock PLD is roughly at Lv15. (So they can start tanking, if they want faster dungeon queues)
MRD Pirates, so pretty much any weapon. Like GLA they are DPS only in dungeons, but unlike GLA, they can go into raids as their DPS counter to WAR. They unlock WAR at Lv15 as well, only due to lack of tanks available at low level. Shares the levels together.
CNJ due to lore changes from yoshida, im conflicted as to which route i would take. I was a 1.0 player who felt CNJ should be BLM.
THM same as above, I felt THM should have been the WHM. so I'll reserve opinion on these 2. (Though maybe stay its own thing, and be a semi "Necromancer" job)
ACN 1.0 had them come off differently, with their magitech staves. I think I'd stick to that idea, and go with something closer to what MCH is. Buffer/DPS but caster, not physical. (They dont upgrade or share a job)
ARC the selfish DPS counterpart to BRD. But they do not share their exp. You pick either at the ARC guild. Rival jobs to eachother. (They gain access to cross bows as well as bows)
LNC Another hard one like CNJ/THM. In lore, LNCs are guardians for gridania, and DRGs are dragon assassins. (Templar knights being the guardians of ishgard) But I cant help but think of classic FF gameplay, where DRGs were one of the most tanky jobs in the series. So... Im going to say LNC straight up becomes DRG by Lv25-35 range, and once it does, it can never go back to LNC.
PGL Similar issue as LNC, I remember 1.0 PGLs wanting to be evasion tanks, and yoshida took that away from them in 1.19. They were also more melee magic combo before. We currently lack any melee casters, as we only have ranged casters, so If I were to keep PGL, rather than just rename it MNK and be done with it, it would either be an evasion tank (which i think is terrible for the current build, and a strong counter to my DRG plans) or one of my melee casters. Unlike LNC, im not sure yet. I'd rather just have MNK, and remove PGL all together, since PGLs ideas came from other jobs, which are better suited to what it was trying to do.
ROG This would upgrade to BOTH THF and NIN. the original ROG class would be permanently lost, once you unlock either of the 2. You unlock THF at Lv20, and NIN at Lv40.
(note: tanks would NEVER get -X% of damage taken)
PLD A focus on shield mitigation. For tank busters, the idea is to force a block. (They can also parry AND block a single attack) Cures+Protect/Shell
2s GCD, and raises the DPS of the other tanks. (support DPS)
WAR Pure defense. (not HP theme) selfish DPS compared to PLD, with little to no oGCD attacks. (To make the weight of each swing feel heavy, and the large weapons feel slower compared to 1handed weapons) (also saving the HP theme for DRK)
WHM remove regen. (medica2 regen is ok) protect/shell are instant cast shields. No longer uses Stone/Aero. Uses Dia/Banish instead. (The 3 removed spells will go to other classic jobs known to use those spells as well)
BLM LB3 would be Demi Ultima. Fire would be the DoT, and Thunder the main damage spell. Pretty solid in terms of classic BLM feel, while not stepping on the toes of too many other jobs, other than their LB3.
SMN Instead of DoTs, a focus on Buffs to their pet. Once fully buffed, an Egi becomes a Demi, and is a burst phase. All attacks are AoEs, and pets dont have HP bars. (To balance future jobs better) uses staves/rods. EDIT: Actually each pet is tied to 1 of 4 DPS arch types. Melee Support/selfish DPS, or Ranged support/selfish DPS. Titan would just be for soloing, as it raises your survival rate, but doesnt actually tank for you. just stuns normal mobs, raises your defense a little, and keeps mobs weighted down. doesnt work in dungeons.
BRD Only uses a bow, but is support DPS like it currently is. Doesnt share exp with ARC.
DRG The evasion tank. Slightly less HP/Defense from PLD or WAR, doesnt have as easy of a time handling filler attacks, or cleaves w/o the help of an off tank. But handles tank busters the best. (Jumps) its base HP/defense and higher parry rate, and small bucklers (only the small ones) for a small chance to block a small amount of dmg.
They have an emergency jump, that requires less timing, and can avoid a lot of dmg, but drastically hurts their threat/DPS, due to no longer being in the fight, better for tank swaps. (Also weaves in quicker DPS jumps to feel faster than WAR, despite a 2.5s GCD)
MNK the job focuses on positionals, and a low GCD. (Id make most GCDs a rear positional, and a weaved oGCD thats flank positional. but current MNK is pretty good)
THF Melee Selfish DoT/rear DPS. (Also steals items/crystals with Mug. THis is the MAIN method to obtain crystals for crafting, not gatherers, and MUG/steal is up every few seconds)
NIN the Ranged Support DPS that DNC is trying to be. Throwing weapons being the primary focus. (Mudras would be changed, so as to give DNC a "mudra" like dance system) They can use daggers or Katanas, but their GCD is either 2s or 2.5s depending on which weapon they choose. (2.25s if one of each, but not a good choice, due to lining up abilities)
SCH wouldnt exist. A completely different job would be in it's place, with a very similar toolkit, but still not quite the same. (the parts i didnt use, were already in use by other planned jobs)
Future jobs, and reasonings:
RDM would be able to be Melee Caster, or Melee Healer. (The retooled SCH actually) They lack good AoE options, and make up for it with dual cast, and some other options depending which thing we're talking about. (Love the current RDM though, would miss it if I went this route) (Also,. would debate if CNJ became RDM)
DRK HP tank. Is healed for more like WAR, and mitigation uses up HP. (TBN uses 5% of your HP, to grant you a shield of 25% HP) Instead of eating through MP, it eats through Blood. Like HW DRK, if you run out of Blood, THEN it eats your HP. The idea being to never get to that point.
BLU I have two variations that work. The "Every DPS arch type" It can be a melee caster, or a ranged caster. Then it can be selfish DPS, or support DPS. (Of course everyone is going to pick support, except a few people who really want big numbers)
or the Caster Tank. The caster tank is easier to make, and keep up to date with expansions, so its the most likely one of the two. (Damage MP, and constant spell buffs to maintain survival) EDIT: actually the all DPS type should go to SMN. This way each pet can be one of those 4 arch types, and they can pick which type they prefer.
TIM Time Mage (Healer) uses Gravity on mobs 5 levels lower than them to half their HP. Comet for single target, and Comet2+Meteor for AoE. (Meteor takes time to get to, cant be spammed) Regen HoT healer. Supportive with Haste effects, and Slow effects. (Stop being stun, though id do something more advanced if allowed) Quicken to cause all of the HoTs to instantly finish all of their HoT effects at once. I do love the AST cards, so in hindsight, Id love to incorporate the cards still, but slightly different effects and potencies.
MCH I honestly would pass this off to someone else to work on. Just not interested in theory crafting MCH.
SAM Their Ranged Attack should be "Gil Toss" lol. Just cap the dmg based on STR, and have it only take up a small amount of gil. THey shouldnt range, but if they feel they must, they do so at the cost of their gil, not TP lol. -
05-21-2019, 12:43 AMJonnycbad
Arcanist is the stand-in for Arithmetician from from FFT. Remember there was no "Scholar" class in FFT, but like Scholars from other games, Arithmetician could cast variety of magic and targeted based on variables like level/height, etc. That said, Arcanist uses math in FFXIV to cast its spells.
From the FFXIV lorebook:
Quote:
The roots of arcanima can be traced back to the esoteric calculations practiced by the people of the south sea isles. It was their efforts to express the nature of aether in mathematical terms that gave rise to the exacting science that we practice today. These definitive formulas are represented by "arcane geometries"—patterns that allow arcanists to manipulate aetheric energy and produce specific effects. The ability to shape this energy also allow practitioners to manifest arcane entities known collectively as "Carbuncle." This is perhaps the most defining power attributed to the art of arcanima.
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05-21-2019, 01:16 AMKaliseSummoner also takes it a step further with the math based spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
Which is why the Allagan's ended up using technology to do the complex formulae needed for Summoning magicks... Right before they went and killed all the Summoners... Then started to use Summoning as a defence mechanism after Sari got all angsty and devised Aetherochemical Summoning and they found his research...
...
Allagans aren't good at sticking with decisions... :rolleyes: