You would think that someone sporting a mentor icon would try to act like one

After years of daily roulette and having leveled all three healers, I have yet to run into a helpful and patient player with the mentor crown. To me, they have mostly not acted any different than me or any other average long term subscriber.

I myself am guilty of not saying anything when a new player is making mistakes. But I don't pretend that I am a helpful player just so I can get a badge next to my name.

You know who you are

Well this is a sweeping generalisation masked as salt at a particular individual

Surely this thread will be the one to tell mentors how to do their job.

We have a dedicated rant thread you know. I'm serious when I suggest you use that, or maybe the subreddit's Friday salt thread if you want to use profanity. I just... what did you want to happen here?

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Originally Posted by Sciwolf

After years of daily roulette and having leveled all three healers, I have yet to run into a helpful and patient player with the mentor crown. To me, they have mostly not acted any different than me or any other average long term subscriber.

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Probably because they are also players.

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Originally Posted by Sciwolf

After years of daily roulette and having leveled all three healers, I have yet to run into a helpful and patient player with the mentor crown. To me, they have mostly not acted any different than me or any other average long term subscriber.

I myself am guilty of not saying anything when a new player is making mistakes. But I don't pretend that I am a helpful player just so I can get a badge next to my name.

You know who you are

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Some mentors don’t care to help and only want the crown next to their name. This is nothing new.

Others don’t offer advice unless people ask for it due to getting salt thrown at them for attempting to “mentor the right way” and players getting mad at them for “unsolicited advice”.

I fall in the latter category. But I only have my crown on when I’m in the Roulette, because otherwise there’s no point in me wearing it. It’s not like they’re taken seriously by the community.

I've had my burgerking crown for a few days and no one asks anything, but is happy to throw garbage my way when I don't offer them advice, and guides on the spot during dungeon runs. Of course, not everyone is like that, but their are enough people who seem to be just looking for crap to throw.

"If you don't know, ask" is a good go to rule to apply to any situation.
It should be common practice to ask for advice.

Oh look, this thread again. We get it, mentors are the scum of the earth and none of them are helpful ever. Is that what you want to hear?

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Originally Posted by Sciwolf

After years of daily roulette and having leveled all three healers, I have yet to run into a helpful and patient player with the mentor crown. To me, they have mostly not acted any different than me or any other average long term subscriber.

I myself am guilty of not saying anything when a new player is making mistakes. But I don't pretend that I am a helpful player just so I can get a badge next to my name.

You know who you are

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You would think people would stop with these high and absurd expectations of what they personally think a mentor should be doing or making sweeping, baseless generalizations. Also, this topic is new and exciting.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Oh look, this thread again. We get it, mentors are the scum of the earth and none of them are helpful ever. Is that what you want to hear?

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We have to notify every mentors parents.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

We have to notify every mentors parents.

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Mentors are guilty until proven innocent no matter how outlandish the accusations are so I guess I'll go to my room now and ground myself for 3 weeks.

To say that there wasn’t a helpful one ever is way exaggerated, and I’ve seen more helpful mentors than bad ones personally. I feel like you, and others who say this, highlight the bad experiences and act like every mentor is a selfish, reward-thirsty player that has a “screw everyone else” attitude.

And I’m not a mentor.

I used to be a good person, till I became a mentor. Now I feed on the salt from sprouts.

I can summerize this by quoting my own thread title, "A mentor kicked my dog!"

I'm a Mentor for ages. But that doesn't mean that I know all of the dungeons by heart nor all of the classes. So I probably can't give advice in a dungeon. Or might give a wrong one because I can't remember correctly. Therefor I prefer to stay silent until something really hits the spot that Needs supervision.

And I actually don't know all the jobs by heart. I'm a firm believer that people should be allowed to learn and grow on their own and that it spoils new Player experience if they always end up with people in a dungeon who tell them what skills to use, how they should do their rotation. They will figure eventually. There will always be people who want to tell them how to play the game. No reason to add another one to the list.

So yeah. I'm probably the Mentor you despice. Because besides greating I rarely do anything else besides what I'm queued up for. Healing. Tanking. DPSing.

My crown means that you can ask me for help. Not that I will force my ideas of character gameplay or dungeon run on you.

There is more than just pve mentors. There is crafting mentors that with crafting questions and help craft items for ones. Before start being salty to them. Check which crown they have because there is more than just one type of mentor. Ones like this is why I never wear my crown.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Others don’t offer advice unless people ask for it due to getting salt thrown at them for attempting to “mentor the right way” and players getting mad at them for “unsolicited advice”.

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Exacly.

I used to offer advice to people when I noticed something was wrong (for exemple, an archer that dosen't use Straight Shot or the same thing for lancers) and more than half the time, I got discarded with the usual 'I know what I am doing' or something along these lines. Or simply ignored and nothing changed after that.
So now, I happily help whenever someone says they are new and that they need a few advice for mechanics or something.

But otherwise, unless we keep wiping and no one says anything, I just keep to myself.

So, we get "boohoo mentors aren't helpful"

and then we get threads such as (albeit, not a mentor, but a player asking relevant questions) http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...of-2-questions

Can't win.

I guess its too hard for a mentor to say at the very beginning

Hello! Feel free to ask any question regarding this duty.

or

Hello! Sorry I don't know this duty very well so I won't be able to provide advice here.


Also its funny the "mentors" here complain about OP and others who feel like mentors are useless and unhelpful because they have ran into so many of them and yet tell story about how they used to be such helpful mentors but stopped because they ran into bad sprout.


edit: Square needs to remove mentor roulette and add a mentor commendation system. There is no reason for a mentor that does the same thing as the 3/7 other player to be rewarded with a mount, a title and thing like that.

You know, Sesera, there are many Mentors who don't queue up for the Mentor roulette but the "normal" leveling roulette. So they don't feel obliged to always mention how familar they are with the dungeon.

I don't want to defend all Mentors because honestly some don't really care about their "duties" but their crown next to the name. However, being a Mentor doesn't mean you have to support new players 24/7.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

I guess its too hard for a mentor to say at the very beginning

Hello! Feel free to ask any question regarding this duty.

or

Hello! Sorry I don't know this duty very well so I won't be able to provide advice here.


Also its funny the "mentors" here complain about OP and others who feel like mentors are useless and unhelpful because they have ran into so many of them and yet tell story about how they used to be such helpful mentors but stopped because they ran into bad sprout.


edit: Square needs to remove mentor roulette and add a mentor commendation system. There is no reason for a mentor that does the same thing as the 3/7 other player to be rewarded with a mount, a title and thing like that.

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It's also not hard for a new player to ask for advice.
Hell, you can even do that with other players who don't have a crown.

Since I've been tanking, players have been more then helpful when at the start of a dungeon, I say something along the lines of "I've never tanked this one before."

Players are willing to help if you seek the help.

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Originally Posted by Nanami_Naniwa

You know, Sesera, there are many Mentors who don't queue up for the Mentor roulette but the "normal" leveling roulette. So they don't feel obliged to always mention how familar they are with the dungeon.

I don't want to defend all Mentors because honestly some don't really care about their "duties" but their crown next to the name. However, being a Mentor doesn't mean you have to support new players 24/7.

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Don't wear your shinny crown then.


I have mentor unlocked but I'm not good enough to be a good one so I don't wear it.

See its easy.

I wear my crown so sprouts know that I'm willing to help and they can ask me if they have a problem - and I'm even willing to go out of my way and run a dungeon or trial with them, if they ask me on the streets of Limas Lominsa (or in the newcomer-chatroom) for help - but I won't give them (probably unwanted) advices if they don't ask for it first or it's messing up the run as a whole [wiping, struggling tank/healer, DPS not AOEing on trash-groups etc].

Honstly i am only a Mentor for a couple of months and no one asked or aproached me for help. I explain mechanics only after a wipe because some people enjoy the learning expierence.
To keep a it clear i got irgnored or insulted . Thats it.

A few examples:

A player causes some wipes so i explain the mechs with a few sentences.
The player responded "stop herassing me or i report you"

The player dies a lot so i explain and the respond is: "you dont pay my sub"

Player does close to nothing or very poorly so i try to help : "stop beeing an elitist"

I am not very good at english but i try my best and keep it polite.
Sure these are the bad examples but those stick and with no good expierence so far i feel frustrated.

To be honest i dont know anymore how to aproach people as a mentor. So many players rage and salt and looking for a victim for their anger or ignorance.

So with no moderation from SE this will not work. Especially the NN needs moderation urgently.


Sorry but the Mentorsystem is broken at the moment in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

Don't wear your shinny crown then.


I have mentor unlocked but I'm not good enough to be a good one so I don't wear it.

See its easy.

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As I stated before I wear the crown so that new players are aware that I can offer help if they need it. Pepsi_Plunge actually stated this pretty well: "I'm willing to help and they can ask me if they have a problem."

Again I want to stress that being a Mentor doesn't mean to supervise new players but to help when help is needed / asked for. It is not your job to play the game for them.

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Originally Posted by Nanami_Naniwa

Again I want to stress that being a Mentor doesn't mean to supervise new players but to help when help is needed / asked for. It is not your job to play the game for them.

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You'd be an evil mentor if you're not going explain everything for a new player that used a jump potion and has zero idea about any mechanics in the game. You'd be more evil if you told them to learn by doing old content.

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Originally Posted by Nanami_Naniwa

As I stated before I wear the crown so that new players are aware that I can offer help if they need it. Pepsi_Plunge actually stated this pretty well: "I'm willing to help and they can ask me if they have a problem."

Again I want to stress that being a Mentor doesn't mean to supervise new players but to help when help is needed / asked for. It is not your job to play the game for them.

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They can be scared of asking for help you know.

Giving them a hand by asking them if there is anything they want to know won't hurt you.

They can be like "what if I get kicked because by asking I told them I don't know what to do"

Also its good you wear the crown for that but that not the case for all and therefore it doesn't always mean to sprout "feel free to ask i'm here for that"

That is why you need you ask them if they need help.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

That is why you need you ask them if they need help.

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No, we are not here to be a therapist for sprouts.
Next thing is we need an education in pedagogy to be a mentor...

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

You'd be an evil mentor if you're not going explain everything for a new player that used a jump potion and has zero idea about any mechanics in the game. You'd be more evil if you told them to learn by doing old content.

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I had to read this twice until I realized you mean the MSQ/Job Skip potions. But I have to be honest here - even if this comes off rude or unhelpful. Personally I don't like the potions and I feel not obliged to teach someone his level 60+ class if he actively decided that he doesn't need the learn-process given by the past 60 level. I wouldn't go so far to tell them to do old content to learn their stuff. But if you don't feel the need of growing with your job while leveling and just want to skip ahead, then I am not the one who is going to teach you the basic you willingly accepted to ignore in the first place.

Again, I'm fully aware that this may be ignorant and Mentors are not supposed to be "picky" in whom they help. Then again this is still a game for me and I don't feel like I'm bound to support all kinds of players.

I wrote it before - If we are running into issues or struggle with a dungeon I'm more than happy to explain what went wrong and how to improve. I will tell the Darkknight to use Grit. I will tell the Whitemage that he can use Esuna to dispell. I will explain that the ballistas in Stone Vigil are used to shoot Isengard. However, I will not do that before I notice that they are not aware of that because "sprout" does not always mean that they are inexperienced or new.

Yes, Sesera, I agree that there are people out there who are new and are afraid to ask because they fear the consequence mean to be shunned from the dungeon. But after playing for a while some will come to realize that the FFXIV community is probably one of the most Kind and helpful communities out there regarding MMO communities. I rarely experienced so many people who are not bothered with explaining and guiding again and again.

There are exceptions to the rule. No doubt. And I'm aware that some Mentors just use the crown for prestige rather then actually helping. But I also know for a fact that there are many Mentors out there who take their "Job" seriously and try to help where they can and in ways they find appropriate.

(Sorry for mispells - not my native language)

I don’t usually give advice unless someone ask or someone repreat you fail the same mechanic.
I don’t if they listen or not, I did my job, it is up to the player to decide his/her path. And I don’t remember all the fight I will be honest with it and just said what I remember and what I don’t.

However, I do understand you, there are bad mentors out there, not in a small number either. Just another day a mentor pull every single trash and when heal couldn’t keep up he rage quit. Yet, I also remember a good mentor who patiencely explain the fight to new player and encourage them when we got 2 wipe.

At the bottomline, it is the fail mentor system SE create, all you need is just get some job to 70, clear some dungeon and you are a mentor, there are no quality check and appraisal on mentor and the reward would always attract some bad apple. Bad mentor will keep showing in any fight until SE finally realise their failure and scrape the system

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sesera

I guess its too hard for a mentor to say at the very beginning

Hello! Feel free to ask any question regarding this duty.

or

Hello! Sorry I don't know this duty very well so I won't be able to provide advice here.


Also its funny the "mentors" here complain about OP and others who feel like mentors are useless and unhelpful because they have ran into so many of them and yet tell story about how they used to be such helpful mentors but stopped because they ran into bad sprout.


edit: Square needs to remove mentor roulette and add a mentor commendation system. There is no reason for a mentor that does the same thing as the 3/7 other player to be rewarded with a mount, a title and thing like that.

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When I started actively running Mentor Roulette about two months ago (despite having it unlocked back near when it was released), I once got Ramuh Ex in there. I've done all the ARR primals at level, but that was about three years ago. I politely told the group that I was pulling up a guide since I had not been in that content synced for many years. They had zero issues. The same thing happened when I got Nidhogg Ex - I had only cleared it once or twice in HW because I got my mount on my clear and just never went back in. Everyone joked how lucky I was while I read over the guide for anything important.

On the other hand, I've had people cuss me out for daring to tell them they're doing something wrong. I apologize if I don't want to deal with that sort of thing in a video game. As I said, I don't even wear my crown unless I'm in the Roulette, and 9 times out of 10, no one asks for or needs advice if the content is a dungeon or a guildhest. If people ask, I am more than willing to give them advice that is within my knowledge. It's not hard to ask for help; we were all new once.


But please. Do continue with your sweeping generalizations. We all know mentors are the worst kinds of people.

Oh look, it's mentor hunting season just like back when stormblood's was about going to be released soon.

Is this the one where all the previous mentor threads are gonna be in that crossover mentor thread that forumers have been waiting for?

I mentor you 3000

Let the landmines continue to be bad. Good mentors are pretty hard find.. though I consider a good one one that isn't constantly messing up mechanics & can barely play their job not just ability give advice.

Honestly worst thing SQEE did was give it an Icon & Rewards all that did was invite a large amount of terrible players to go for it.

Hmmm the rewards -
Many people say that but the title and the mount are.... not hat good (title is weird and the mount ugly a. f.) Also for the mount you need a lot of runs. The crown should be removed (maybe a watering can, a suggestion from someone else but a good one )

Also we need a moderation (supervisor) for mentors. Look at the NN which is used as a trashtalk corner for edgy kids and trolls or the people that barely know how the games works but are mentors.

The requirements for mentors have to change and we need someone that works as a tester so those bad apples will sorted out over time.

The community has failed as much as SE. Now we need a change or the removement of this system.

There are mentors with different mentalities.

For example, there are pro-active mentors, and then passive mentors like me. I will only help/answer stuff if I'm askef or if I feel they need to know something. I'm not gonna ask them if they have questions the second I enter a dungeon, for example.
I just wear the crown to let people know I can answer stuff, but I'm not pro-active (and don't want to).

And then, obviously, there's the other type of "mentors" that just don't understand what a mentor is and will cause more troubles than help.

I have met mentors in roulettes who go out of their way to help others and act overly like a mentor, constantly nitpicking everyone and kindly offering advice as if they are the guide and tutorial to all of the sprouts in the dungeon.

It's not necessary though. Just do the dungeon the way you normally would and if someone has a question, answer it; if someone talks, be nice and understanding to them; if someone is struggling with a vital mechanic, clarify it politely - like running away with a stack marker or not looking away during Neurosquama. You don't need to be their tutorial telling them how to do every mechanic; just be their bike stabiliser if they fall off.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

It's also not hard for a new player to ask for advice.
Hell, you can even do that with other players who don't have a crown.

Since I've been tanking, players have been more then helpful when at the start of a dungeon, I say something along the lines of "I've never tanked this one before."

Players are willing to help if you seek the help.

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There is a reason why there is another thread about people thinking mentors are bad you know.

If a sprout asked a bad mentor and had been badly treated you expect him to ask again?

But I guess its better complaining about OP rather than make them feel welcome to ask.

You can also make a macro so you won't have to type it everytime.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Mentors are guilty until proven innocent no matter how outlandish the accusations are so I guess I'll go to my room now and ground myself for 3 weeks.

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Don't forget to send a note home with yourself.

But yeah c'mon, do we really need a dozen threads about the same thing? This will turn into the same debate as the rest =/

The issue with less-than-empathetic Mentors has always been the fact that anyone can achieve the title just by playing the game and getting commendations here and there. You could be quiet as a mouse the whole duty and you'll get a commendation for simply performing your role or even because someone liked your glamour.

Tying an exclusive mount to it gave it far too great an incentive for most people to pass up.

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Originally Posted by Nyvara

Don't forget to send a note home with yourself.

But yeah c'mon, do we really need a dozen threads about the same thing? This will turn into the same debate as the rest =/

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To be honest, all of these threads (along with past experience) makes me want to be a mentor even less than I do already. I got my mentor status and wanted to help people, but people don't take me seriously with the crown...so I took it off and never put it back on. I'll just be an average joe trying to help the average player when I feel like it or if I feel it is necessary.