If would be a nice, since Viera and Hrothgar are gender locked...

... if they could ignore the gender requirements on gear. I will be using a Fantasia to go Viera, it would be nice if I could equip or glamour male only gear. Likewise, it would be fantastic to see a Hrothgar in the Antecedent's Attire...

That's all. Just wishful thinking about something that isn't going to happen...

Do you know how much work that is for the artist to do? We would all love complete freedom but there's something called time and money that is a huge factor if the FFXIV team had unlimited time and money then I am pretty sure they would have everything in the game that is requested that includes male viera and female lion all they would have to do is hire a army of artist and animators.

Also profit made off this game doesn't even go back into this game. The money is used for different SE projects.

The most recent example is the whole Sonic character being redesigned. Yes its great that they are remaking the character but has anyone even thought about the art designers or animators? they are going to be working around the clock to redesign Sonic with zero breaks and no days off for very little pay increase if at all.

All I am saying and sorry for the rant is that the people working on this game are human beings and are most likely working crazy hours per week/per shift and barely get to see there familys or friends or have any kind of free time on top of that they are in japan so the work conditions are even worse.

Yes we would like male viera yes we would like female lions yes we would like a new healer job and yes we would all love for each and every piece of glam to work on every single race/job but lets be real here those are HUGE projects if you think about it objectively...

They can't even wear head gear at ShB's launch so I'd say the chance of that is in the negative percentile range.

Oh please no.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kohl

... if they could ignore the gender requirements on gear. I will be using a Fantasia to go Viera, it would be nice if I could equip or glamour male only gear. Likewise, it would be fantastic to see a Hrothgar in the Antecedent's Attire...

That's all. Just wishful thinking about something that isn't going to happen...

---

Im assuming that, realistically, the system is set up as is:

HrothGar and Viera will be placed under a category that theyll call "X"

Under that category, it will still have male and female variations, however they will just call the Male Variations Hrothgar, and Female Variations Viera. Under this, the game would assume that its just one 'race' with male and female variations with a different naming convention. For Glamours, this means you wont get female Vieras wearing male clothes, or vice versa because the engine sees that you have a male/female variation of a race already in place and wont allow you to wear clothes outside the gender.

Though its worth noting, IF they launch ShB with Hrothgar as it's own category, and Viera as its own, that might be a strong indicator we will get the other sexes down the line and they set up the character creation engine to reflect this now so they wouldnt need to change it later. Im not holding my breath for this, but itd be a pretty good sign if we did see it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vonleo

Do you know how much work that is for the artist to do? We would all love complete freedom but there's something called time and money that is a huge factor if the FFXIV team had unlimited time and money then I am pretty sure they would have everything in the game that is requested that includes male viera and female lion all they would have to do is hire a army of artist and animators.

Also profit made off this game doesn't even go back into this game. The money is used for different SE projects.

The most recent example is the whole Sonic character being redesigned. Yes its great that they are remaking the character but has anyone even thought about the art designers or animators? they are going to be working around the clock to redesign Sonic with zero breaks and no days off for very little pay increase if at all.

All I am saying and sorry for the rant is that the people working on this game are human beings and are most likely working crazy hours per week/per shift and barely get to see there familys or friends or have any kind of free time on top of that they are in japan so the work conditions are even worse.

Yes we would like male viera yes we would like female lions yes we would like a new healer job and yes we would all love for each and every piece of glam to work on every single race/job but lets be real here those are HUGE projects if you think about it objectively...

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Yes. Remember where I said it was just wishful thinking? I've worked for small companies and large corporations, I have worked long hours without breaks, I am well aware of the nature of hard work and money and limited resources... and busting your ass to get something done only to be questioned as to why it wasn't more. I am also very happy with what we do have, nothing about what I said was a complaint. You saw what you expected to see and you ranted (to use the word you used) in response, pretty common reaction, and I don't really blame you for it. I don't usually make comments in the forums... because... well it seems like there is a lot of complaining, and I don't want to get wrapped up in some argument.

I am very excited for the Shadowbringers, I am looking forward to it. I don't understand the criticism people have for FFXIV, I think this game is fantastic. I have very little time in my live for something as frivolous as a video game, but the time I do have for video games I spend on FFXIV. I especially love things like the contests for gear design. I wish I had the time produce an worthy submission. Maybe next time.

Sorry my random thought triggered you. I don't know what to tell you, other than thank you for replying to my first thread here, and I hope the rest of your day is a good one.

Wouldn't be any point really, more likely to have the other missing sexes added in than this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Im assuming that, realistically, the system is set up as is:

HrothGar and Viera will be placed under a category that theyll call "X"

Under that category, it will still have male and female variations, however they will just call the Male Variations Hrothgar, and Female Variations Viera. Under this, the game would assume that its just one 'race' with male and female variations with a different naming convention. For Glamours, this means you wont get female Vieras wearing male clothes, or vice versa because the engine sees that you have a male/female variation of a race already in place and wont allow you to wear clothes outside the gender.

Though its worth noting, IF they launch ShB with Hrothgar as it's own category, and Viera as its own, that might be a strong indicator we will get the other sexes down the line and they set up the character creation engine to reflect this now so they wouldnt need to change it later. Im not holding my breath for this, but itd be a pretty good sign if we did see it.

---

I very much much doubt they'll make it one race internally. the time and work issue isnt in programming the race selection itself but in the gear that needs to be adjusted and tested. They would stick themselves in a corner that they cant program themself out of ever

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Im assuming that, realistically, the system is set up as is:

HrothGar and Viera will be placed under a category that theyll call "X"

Under that category, it will still have male and female variations, however they will just call the Male Variations Hrothgar, and Female Variations Viera. Under this, the game would assume that its just one 'race' with male and female variations with a different naming convention. For Glamours, this means you wont get female Vieras wearing male clothes, or vice versa because the engine sees that you have a male/female variation of a race already in place and wont allow you to wear clothes outside the gender.

Though its worth noting, IF they launch ShB with Hrothgar as it's own category, and Viera as its own, that might be a strong indicator we will get the other sexes down the line and they set up the character creation engine to reflect this now so they wouldnt need to change it later. Im not holding my breath for this, but itd be a pretty good sign if we did see it.

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The male and female categorization is pretty obviously set, gear will be locked for them accordingly as it is for everything else. There is already president. My post was half wishful thinking and half being amused by the idea.

I honestly felt they took a gamble trying to make as many people happy as possible, and I think they did a really good job. Players have been asking for Viera and a more bestial race for a long time. It makes me sad that some people aren't happy with it. But maybe I am biased because it doesn't effect how I was going to play? This game is always developing, so I am excited to see where to goes from here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Wouldn't be any point really, more likely to have the other missing sexes added in than this.

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This is very true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

They can't even wear head gear at ShB's launch so I'd say the chance of that is in the negative percentile range.

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Oh yeah, I have no delusions that it will happen. Still excited for the new races.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kohl

... if they could ignore the gender requirements on gear. I will be using a Fantasia to go Viera, it would be nice if I could equip or glamour male only gear. Likewise, it would be fantastic to see a Hrothgar in the Antecedent's Attire...

That's all. Just wishful thinking about something that isn't going to happen...

---

See, I've always had one particular piece of male attire I've always wanted for my girls, and it's the High House Justaucorps. And I had not thought about it for a long time, but now you have me imagining a Viera wearing it, and I want to die. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

See, I've always had one particular piece of male attire I've always wanted for my girls, and it's the High House Justaucorps. And I had not thought about it for a long time, but now you have me imagining a Viera wearing it, and I want to die. lol

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Similar situation for me, I really would like to equip parts of the Scion Rogue gear. Haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Im assuming that, realistically, the system is set up as is:

HrothGar and Viera will be placed under a category that theyll call "X"

Under that category, it will still have male and female variations, however they will just call the Male Variations Hrothgar, and Female Variations Viera. Under this, the game would assume that its just one 'race' with male and female variations with a different naming convention. For Glamours, this means you wont get female Vieras wearing male clothes, or vice versa because the engine sees that you have a male/female variation of a race already in place and wont allow you to wear clothes outside the gender.

Though its worth noting, IF they launch ShB with Hrothgar as it's own category, and Viera as its own, that might be a strong indicator we will get the other sexes down the line and they set up the character creation engine to reflect this now so they wouldnt need to change it later. Im not holding my breath for this, but itd be a pretty good sign if we did see it.

---

We actually know from datamining that they're set up exactly like the other races, with entries for males and females of both. They were briefly present around 4.5's release, but were removed when people found out that the French localization team screwed up and references to the player character's race just listed all the ones in the files, Viera and Hrothgar included.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

I very much much doubt they'll make it one race internally. the time and work issue isnt in programming the race selection itself but in the gear that needs to be adjusted and tested. They would stick themselves in a corner that they cant program themself out of ever

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From a programming standpoint, the engine is 'blind'. Coding wise, 'Hrothgar' is just a name. The model is just an item the engine will display. this is what I meant. The game wont see the Category that holds Hrothgar and Viera as any different than any other Race. It just understands that this is a particular grouping with one group for the Female Category being called Viera, and the other group for male being called Hrothgar. Each grouping having set attributes that align with all the other groups.

It's from here that causes the most problem from a coding point. Yeah, actually getting the glamours to fit the models correctly is also work. No doubt, but the coding side is the more pain in the ass part because of how the game is set up. Trying to make an exception when theyre likely to be under one category is likely to break a lot of things in the process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kohl

The male and female categorization is pretty obviously set, gear will be locked for them accordingly as it is for everything else. There is already president. My post was half wishful thinking and half being amused by the idea.

I honestly felt they took a gamble trying to make as many people happy as possible, and I think they did a really good job. Players have been asking for Viera and a more bestial race for a long time. It makes me sad that some people aren't happy with it. But maybe I am biased because it doesn't effect how I was going to play? This game is always developing, so I am excited to see where to goes from here.

---

I broadly agree with your point about their choice. It was a gamble, and IMO a misread of what the base was actually asking for. They pretty much picked the worst of all options. It wouldve been better to either just go ham and go Viera all the way (and possiblye make one clan of viera more feral looking to scratch that beastial itch) or just say screw it to viera and do hrothgar male and female. Trying to do both ended up disappointed the most amount of people in the end. Really wasnt as well planned out as they thought.

Been wishing for that since I began playing back in HW ans I still hope for it. I'm not holding my breath for it but maybe one day...

Really, really wish they'd stop designing different looks for the same piece of gear, and restricting some of it to one gender.
The most frustrating thing for me.

id settle for just the fairy dress in mog station and spring dress to be allowed on males i want 2 be ronso but the only glam id ever use on it is the bunny top and bottom ,shoes

Yeah, free the lady nips as well. EQUALITY!

My guess is they probably won't do it due to people would just complain why can't their race/gender combo wear X and SE would just want to avoid that altogether especially after the male bunny suit.

It truly sucks but SE gave themselves more work when they made the decision they did and unfortunately they won't be fully finished on release due to most headgear being locked so having gear no other Xrace/Ygender could use is unfeasible

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

Yeah, free the lady nips as well. EQUALITY!

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Without jokes, it actually even has some sense at least for one Au Ra tribe from roleplay side (there is one that doesn't wear any clothes and uses white dye on their skin instead). But, I'm afraid, then they will have to reconsider age rating. Not to mention that even males here have only... uhm... let's call it "remnant of nipples". x) And well... it's a sensitive topic overall.

If talk about topic, I want to see at least some reverse. Most of attires are unisex anyway, and both genders have decend amount of open and closed clothes, but I'm just sad every time when females get pretty shorts and guys get another pair of meh pants (Spring Bottoms, last Hatching event, new Bard AF armor, Dancer armor, that is the least I'm able to remember right now). Why not the opposite at least once, geez? I mean, males for now have... 2 or 3 shorts, they are locked by jobs and too long compare to those that females have and have as actual glamour item available for everything. One piece that can be considered as shorts are underwear from 2014 year rising event, but they are not dyable. -_- /sighs ...I just want those Spring Bottom shorts from gold saucer that females have, they are brilliant. ;_; And geez I want that Higanbana head piece from Garo for guys!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Without jokes, it actually even has some sense at least for one Au Ra tribe from roleplay side (there is one that doesn't wear any clothes and uses white dye on their skin instead). But, I'm afraid, then they will have to reconsider age rating. Not to mention that even males here have only... uhm... let's call it "remnant of nipples". x) And well... it's a sensitive topic overall.

If talk about topic, I want to see at least some reverse. Most of attires are unisex anyway, and both genders have decend amount of open and closed clothes, but I'm just sad every time when females get pretty shorts and guys get another pair of meh pants (Spring Bottoms, last Hatching event, new Bard AF armor, Dancer armor, that is the least I'm able to remember right now). Why not the opposite at least once, geez? I mean, males for now have... 2 or 3 shorts, they are locked by jobs and too long compare to those that females have and have as actual glamour item available for everything. One piece that can be considered as shorts are underwear from 2014 year rising event, but they are not dyable. -_- /sighs ...I just want those Spring Bottom shorts from gold saucer that females have, they are brilliant. ;_; And geez I want that Higanbana head piece from Garo for guys!

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Ok, you get hot pants and I get to take my bra off. Deal! :D

Like remind you how long took them to just do one outfit Bunny outfit.

This is a good example of why I think Yoshi says he wants to know the "temperature" of the feedback (as a means to disregard it).

It's easy as a fan to say "I want/ I would like/ This would be cool" and not give any thought into how much work it would be.

Like, you don't get it. This idea is literally a huge chunk of the work that stops them from making anymore character models.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

This is a good example of why I think Yoshi says he wants to know the "temperature" of the feedback (as a means to disregard it).

It's easy as a fan to say "I want/ I would like/ This would be cool" and not give any thought into how much work it would be.

Like, you don't get it. This idea is literally a huge chunk of the work that stops them from making anymore character models.

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or they could stop making gender locked items .. from this point on not saying mod all current items but all future items should have no genderlock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

or they could stop making gender locked items .. from this point on not saying mod all current items but all future items should have no genderlock

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Cool, now you get far fewer dresses/ skirts moving forward because ever dress has to be modeled for and bug checked to work on Hrothgar and Roebros and Scale bois and so on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Cool, now you get far fewer dresses/ skirts moving forward because ever dress has to be modeled for and bug checked to work on Hrothgar and Roebros and Scale bois and so on.

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lol thats fine with me as long as its fair and goes on both idc of we got 1 every 5 years

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

lol thats fine with me as long as its fair and goes on both idc of we got 1 every 5 years

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I'd rather we get more stuff for different genders rather than waiting 5 years to end up getting a dress.

So you want to crossdress? Not opposed to it but that's probably what's going to happen all day is all males dressed in female attire
and all females dressed in male attire. At this point it's going to be like What's the point at this point, you're going to be seeing tones of giant lions in bikinis.

But do you really think they're going to let us wear things like "Conan the destroyer?"
endless summer top for males?

this would be too sexual and because kids play it, it will be even more frowned upon.
plus would have to refit things to fit the chest,

and things like Thavairian Bolero will have to be altered to fit the female form.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NebulaStarsong

So you want to crossdress? Not opposed to it but that's probably what's going to happen all day is all males dressed in female attire
and all females dressed in male attire. At this point it's going to be like What's the point at this point, you're going to be seeing tones of giant lions in bikinis.

But do you really think they're going to let us wear things like "Conan the destroyer?"
endless summer top for males?

this would be too sexual and because kids play it, it will be even more frowned upon.
plus would have to refit things to fit the chest,

and things like Thavairian Bolero will have to be altered to fit the female form.

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But all these things...already exist...and then some...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

But all these things...already exist...and then some...

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yes, yes it does, so you see how pointless this whole thread is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NebulaStarsong

and things like Thavairian Bolero will have to be altered to fit the female form.

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Still a little salty about that i love the thavnarian bustier female characters have yet male characters did not get a male exclusive with it no no their supposed one must be allowed to be worn by both genders >_>

^ this is just my saltiness i still joke with my friend who wants the butler attire for his character about it so i have largely accepted gender locked gear will be a thing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vonleo

Do you know how much work that is for the artist to do? We would all love complete freedom but there's something called time and money that is a huge factor if the FFXIV team had unlimited time and money then I am pretty sure they would have everything in the game that is requested that includes male viera and female lion all they would have to do is hire a army of artist and animators.

Also profit made off this game doesn't even go back into this game. The money is used for different SE projects.

The most recent example is the whole Sonic character being redesigned. Yes its great that they are remaking the character but has anyone even thought about the art designers or animators? they are going to be working around the clock to redesign Sonic with zero breaks and no days off for very little pay increase if at all.

All I am saying and sorry for the rant is that the people working on this game are human beings and are most likely working crazy hours per week/per shift and barely get to see there familys or friends or have any kind of free time on top of that they are in japan so the work conditions are even worse.

Yes we would like male viera yes we would like female lions yes we would like a new healer job and yes we would all love for each and every piece of glam to work on every single race/job but lets be real here those are HUGE projects if you think about it objectively...

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As someone who went to an animation school, I would like to tell you to calm down a bit, it's not that dramatic.
Most animators do contractual work, for the ones with a permanent job working on Sonic's new model or another project it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things because it all comes down to having enough work to cover your bills.
Regardless of whether the movie gets reworked or not, they will receive pay for their work - the overall work climate is set by the workplace and culture the animator is from. And are usually conditions they have signed to when they agreed on a contract, it's work, not a sweatshop. (besides most animation studios outsource to eastern europe or asia, now THAT is sweatshop conditions)

Square Enix have these forums for player feedback, to feel the pulse of their community - regardless what people request, it is ultimately up to Yoshi P and his dev team if they want to put resources towards said requests.
These are highly skilled and highly paid animators and programmers, with a good wage. Japans working culture is extremely rough, I agree with you - but if we held back all feedback because we don't want to stress out the devs they wouldn't get their wished feedback.
I've never seen anyone disrespect the devs, I see nothing but respect towards them here and on Reddit, I see more people defending, which is in part silly - as Yoshi P has the final say and these people do this for a living, and they love it.
People have a right to make simple requests and get exasperated if they say the same things for years - yes, it might come off as entitled, but here's the kicker -> Yoshi P can simply ignore it.

People have asked for an end to genderlocked armor pieces since the game implemented them, a lot of the reasoning why they have that in the first place comes down to a cosmetic decision by Yoshi P and his team. Making a different male version of a piece is actually extra work, it would be easier to take the dress and fit it for a male than making a similar but different more masculine version of a piece for males only. They created this demand themselves by making two similar, but different designs for females and males and then locked it - making people feel like they're 'missing out'.

Same applies to the genderlock, they didn't provide a new race in Stormblood. They could've done the same here - instead, they gave us two halves and created an artificial demand for the other, which he even admitted to having predicted.
I don't know what's going on in their board meetings, but they know what they're doing - if these criticized aspects of the game remain that's up to them, but It's justified for the customers to voice their opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NebulaStarsong

So you want to crossdress? Not opposed to it but that's probably what's going to happen all day is all males dressed in female attire
and all females dressed in male attire. At this point it's going to be like What's the point at this point, you're going to be seeing tones of giant lions in bikinis.

But do you really think they're going to let us wear things like "Conan the destroyer?"
endless summer top for males?

this would be too sexual and because kids play it, it will be even more frowned upon.
plus would have to refit things to fit the chest,

and things like Thavairian Bolero will have to be altered to fit the female form.

---

Is this where I should point you to World of Warcraft and tell you that's never been an issue in most other MMO's?

It is way easier for animators to create a single design and fit it onto two genders, than make two separate pieces that are totally different designs for each gender.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Wouldn't be any point really, more likely to have the other missing sexes added in than this.

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Pretty much this.
This is after all the main hurdle that's preventing them from giving us both genders of each race.
If they could do this, they could give us both genders.

I am probably going to get some flak for this; but there is some disproportionate irritation being vented here (and in other threads).

I see things I don’t put a priority on all the time, and sometimes I see things get implemented in the game I don’t care about. But you know what? It’s not my game. I play it and really enjoy it and yeah, I am going to talk about what I think would be cool, just like everyone else. What I am not going to do is get all angry or irritated that other people want something I don’t. I won’t go out of my way to give pejorative, non-constructive feedback (I’ll be snarky, just won’t go out of my way for it, lol). If there is anything I don’t get, it’s why people do that.

I have a whole list of things I think would be nice to have in addition to non-genderlocked races/gear.

-more character customisation options
-au’ra redesigned to look more like the older concept art.
-to be able to at least partially dye all gear.
-a “mount” that allows you to transform into a flying thing (like a fairy version of your character)
-to be able to companion a secondary mount
-for bulky features on body armour to “visor” off. Leaving a sleeker design for those who want it
-more housing in more areas
-odin dagger for NIN
-odin rapier for RDM
-cross job/role glamouring

The list goes on

If I were proposing a new system change, new ability/weapon skill/trait, something truly game changing, yeah, critique and debate that. But saying “x would be nice but probably won’t happen” threatens you... how? And why are you so easily threatened?

I want to see all the suggestions for additions because as long as the FFXIV team has things to develop, the game will just have... more. For everyone.

I really love this game. Always excited to see how it will grow. I know all this stuff is work... but work is good, it’s employment. It’s development.