Start all new jobs at lvl 30 or introduce new pre-requisite classes for them at lvl 1

I like starting fresh for every new thing cuz it gives me the chance to learn it fully and properly. Yes, PoTD is a thing and yes, I will use it, but I was bummed that the expac classes start at lvl 50+. Idk, I wish they at least had a new pre-req class to level from 1. Like, ashigaru for Samurai or Engineer for Machinist.

*shrugs*

Also, I'm not feeling Dancer for Shadowbringers tbh.

You don't learn a job 'fully' until you get the full toolkit to work with, i.e. when it's at level cap. Up to that point you get a mess like MCH and DRK.

You have the option to sync down as you please.

Don't force it on me.

you can learn by reading your skills... don't act like your lvl has a bearing on anything.

Leveling doesn't teach anyone anything.

One of the things I like most about ESO is that you make a new toon, walk out the door, and can queue for a dungeon right away.

What you quickly realize is that it's not leveling that teaches you anything - it's playing it in relevant content.

People here would likely know MORE about how to play their role/class/job if they started at Max level with all their skills and got thrown out into the world, having to perform quickly. You'd basically see about 1 day of noobishness and then folks would get it.

Instead the real problem is they spend 1-6 months leveling without their proper tools... and they learn all the WRONG ways to play, and then at max, have to FIRST UNLEARN everything, before they can learn how to do it right.

Humans learn differently. How you learn is unique to you. However, all base jobs have been preceded by a class and that's how I learn, so that's my rpeferred method. It's cool that you guys want things to remain the same though :3 This is just a suggestion

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Instead the real problem is they spend 1-6 months leveling without their proper tools... and they learn all the WRONG ways to play, and then at max, have to FIRST UNLEARN everything, before they can learn how to do it right.

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On the other hand, there's plenty of relevant content at all the level caps, 50, 60 and 70.
Some jobs have very different rotations at 50, and not learning how to use the level 50 skills can be just as bad, and can hinder your ability to play content that shouldn't be difficult at this point.
This could be particularly bad for healers. Jumping straight to cap gives you a load of oGCDs to use, but if you sync back to 50 and haven't learned to time your GCD heals correctly, you could screw things up for everyone.

I played right through from ARR to SB my first time as BLM, and sure it was an adjustment at level 60, but it was no different transitioning from 50 to 60 then it would be just learning it at 60.
The point is you should know how to play your job at all levels, not just at cap.

Now, I wouldn’t suggest everyone level from 1, or even 30, but there could be other options.

Perhaps all jobs start at level 1, but expansion jobs come with a free jump potion to their relevant level.
It would be nice to give all jobs a starting class too, and this could facilitate that. The unlock quests just gives you the class, then the next quest gives you the job stone and the jump potion.
Obviously it’s a bit late for that now but, there are other ways it could have worked.

there is a reason why a training dummy exist.

and no, just because people learn stuff from level 1 doesn't mean they know their stuff when they reach 70, different people has different take.

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Originally Posted by Creed255

Humans learn differently. How you learn is unique to you. However, all base jobs have been preceded by a class and that's how I learn, so that's my rpeferred method. It's cool that you guys want things to remain the same though :3 This is just a suggestion

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That's why the game kinda addresses it currently. Each new job starts at a given level, but if you prefer to get a feeling of the lower levels, you can have a go during syched down content like early dungeons and Palace of the Dead / Heaven on High. And if you don't feel like doing higher level content, you just dont queue for it until you think you're comfortable with how the job plays.

I'm with the majority that thinks a job plays "only" at level cap, and the sooner you get there, the better. But the game won't force it onto you. :)

Meh, they don't have to be 30 but I would be in favour of certain prerequisites being met.

Dark Knight requires a Gladiator or Marauder at level 30.
Gunbreaker requires a Paladin, Warrior or Dark Knight at level 60.

That sort of thing, you'd need at least a general understanding of the role you're going to play before you can dive straight in at level 50+.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Meh, they don't have to be 30 but I would be in favour of certain prerequisites being met.

Dark Knight requires a Gladiator or Marauder at level 30.
Gunbreaker requires a Paladin, Warrior or Dark Knight at level 60.

That sort of thing, you'd need at least a general understanding of the role you're going to play before you can dive straight in at level 50+.

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Except you can buy jump potions, so the field isn't level.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Except you can buy jump potions, so the field isn't level.

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Do you reckon that's the route the majority of people would go?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Do you reckon that's the route the majority of people would go?

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Well it would probably encourage more people to go that route. But the point is, if you can bypass that requirement, then enforcing it on non-cash-shopper in an effort to make people learn is a bit futile and kinda petty.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Meh, they don't have to be 30 but I would be in favour of certain prerequisites being met.

Dark Knight requires a Gladiator or Marauder at level 30.
Gunbreaker requires a Paladin, Warrior or Dark Knight at level 60.

That sort of thing, you'd need at least a general understanding of the role you're going to play before you can dive straight in at level 50+.

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They have this already, it's called "you need to be level 50 and have done ARR MSQ in order to unlock DRK". By level 50 its pretty obvious you've seen enough duties that you generally know the concept of what the 3 job roles do that you can figure it out.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

By level 50 its pretty obvious you've seen enough duties that you generally know the concept of what the 3 job roles do that you can figure it out.

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Unless you've used the MSQ skip from MogStation in which case any expectation of skill is then thrown out of the window. It's only going to happen again with ShB, new players may get excited at Gunbreaker but want to skip straight to the new expac. They pick the new tank, run some duties and have no idea what to do.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Meh, they don't have to be 30 but I would be in favour of certain prerequisites being met.

Dark Knight requires a Gladiator or Marauder at level 30.
Gunbreaker requires a Paladin, Warrior or Dark Knight at level 60.

That sort of thing, you'd need at least a general understanding of the role you're going to play before you can dive straight in at level 50+.

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Probably should be more duty base than lvl base
10-20 dungeons as a tank for Drk
10-20 lvl 50+ dungeons for GNB

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Unless you've used the MSQ skip from MogStation in which case any expectation of skill is then thrown out of the window. It's only going to happen again with ShB, new players may get excited at Gunbreaker but want to skip straight to the new expac. They pick the new tank, run some duties and have no idea what to do.

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Let's not make it sound like a huge problem when it has been a handful of people behaving that way since the skip items on Mog Station. Yes it's going to happen at 5.0 release, but I'm not sure it's going to happen that frequently.

So I'd rather have jobs easily accessible and at higher levels rather than artificially creating a "leveling game experience" to avoid that kind of situation, when you can snooze 70 levels anyway through PoTD/HoH or a skip item. You're level 70 but you don't know the jobs that well.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Probably should be more duty base than lvl base
10-20 dungeons as a tank for Drk
10-20 lvl 50+ dungeons for GNB

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That might be better to be fair, I just think it's fitting to have the unlock requirement be a tank job leveled to the new tank jobs starting level.

I mean, roles are kind of like an overarching class, especially tanks given how similar they all are. You play as a "tank" and the jobs are just different specs of the same basic thing.

I mean...

I'd just like jobs to start from level 1 because it means a longer line of Job Quests.

It also fits better with that whole thing of "I'm learning this new skill from scratch" as opposed to randomly picking up say a Gunblade that you've never seen before that was developed on an entirely different world by a race you've never before met and then being really freaking good with it right out of the box.

As far as limiting to make people learn the job? Well, that won't work for the majority of people. Since the fundamental flaw is that the game neither teaches, nor expects anything from players during leveling. Which is why we can get so many dumb players on jobs that do start from level 1. Since there's never any reason for them to actually learn stuff...

Though, I wouldn't mind if they did something like having the first job quest as the jobs be a duty sort of like Halls of the Novice where it will go through the basics of the role. It wouldn't be particularly out there for design, given that many job quests do take you through duties that have some relevance to the job (Such as Healer ones getting you to heal some NPC and Tank ones having you take aggro off an NPC), it would merely necessitate being a little more in depth, just for the first quest at least. Nothing too strenuous, or that would be excessively annoying for people who know how to play the role, but something to at least guide people (Who bother to do job quests...) in the right direction.

Especially when starting at level 60, which means jumping into the SB leveling dungeons which are probably some of the hardest ones in the game at this point (Which says a lot about "Expert" dungeons...)

Everything is in proportion, you won't have your full kit at lvl 60, just the same way you didn't with rdm or sam at 50. You will learn the basic rotation, then have several skills added with those 20 levels most likely, I don't see the issue here.

Well if a new player or returning player comes back for shadowbringer, it would stand to reason they might want to level DRK, AST, MCH, RDM, SAM, DNC, and GBR at level 30 rather than having to get to 50 and 60.

Say you get what you want and new classes start at 30, great, but what about those who want to start at 50-60? There'd be no option for that.

The way things are, new classes start at 50-60, but you still have the tools to start from level one by going to PotD, or anywhere between 1-80 by queuing for a low level dungeon, in other words, you have options.

There's not a whole lot to debate here.