Question on 3rd party application and ToS.

Is the use of a 3rd party application specifically made for only pre-placing waymarks in game for a fight a bannable offense and against ToS?

you're injecting code into the game via a 3rd party tool. if you get caught it would be a violation of TOS and you would be subject to appropriate punishment.

I think the official answer is yes.
But then how would anyone know you are using it and would anyone complain?

devs have tools for detecting this sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

devs have tools for detecting this sort of thing.

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If they have, they only use them after receiving reports from players that there's funny business going on. Both the BLM that had crazy short casting times and the Ninja that was using pomanders outside of PotD by injecting code into the game were only detected and dealt with after players made the issue known about.

Given any changes to the item and gear system are always quite limited due to increased server loads, I doubt they'd do the same by constantly running tools looking for players injecting code.

I remember a 3rd party addon called AMS that worked in a similar manner in World of Warcraft during their second expansion. It was also one of the only addons that was ever banned by Blizzard.

If Blizzard was willing to ban the use of an addon like that back then, I'm almost positive that your addon would be bannable in XIV as well.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Is the use of a 3rd party application specifically made for only pre-placing waymarks in game for a fight a bannable offense and against ToS?

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All third party programs that interact with FFXIV are against the ToS. No matter how harmless they might seem.

Now in practice SE has kind of fight club rules going on. You won't get banned for using, for example, a parser if you never mention it in game/use it for self improvement. But even then, it's technically not allowed.

If you're curious about their detailed stance... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WXYg-S05U&t=370

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

All third party programs that interact with FFXIV are against the ToS. No matter how harmless they might seem.

Now in practice SE has kind of fight club rules going on. You won't get banned for using, for example, a parser if you never mention it in game/use it for self improvement. But even then, it's technically not allowed.

If you're curious about their detailed stance... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WXYg-S05U&t=370

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To sort of elaborate on the parser, it's more of a "as long as you aren't using it to exclude people from parties, have at it" type of situation...so as long as no discrimination is going on due to the use of the parser, they turn a blind eye to it. That, and as long as the people that are over-zealous with the wanting of banning parsers(usually due to bad personal experience) don't catch wind you use one, you usually are safe to use it to improve yourself/help improve others(in friendly, non-limiting, ways)

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

devs have tools for detecting this sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

If they have, they only use them after receiving reports from players that there's funny business going on. Both the BLM that had crazy short casting times and the Ninja that was using pomanders outside of PotD by injecting code into the game were only detected and dealt with after players made the issue known about.

Given any changes to the item and gear system are always quite limited due to increased server loads, I doubt they'd do the same by constantly running tools looking for players injecting code.

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SE can’t detect anything that is used Client-side because the game client doesn’t come with any sort of software that monitors what a client is doing (think GameGuard and other anti-cheating/anti-hacking software). If a cheat/hack transfers to server traffic, then they can detect it (I believe that was how they were able to take down the Mogboard site, because they could actively detect it in server traffic); but purely client-side things they have no way of knowing if a person is using them or not unless the person admits it in-game.

That being said, I don’t know if the application the OP is talking about is purely client-side, or if it can be detected by the server should a GM go digging. I just know that it is, technically, against the ToS. I would honestly like an official, in-game option for easier placing of waymarks, though. Perhaps saving macros with arena coordinates to make the process a bit faster. I feel like I’m really slow with placing them, but maybe that’s because I play with a controller. My game won’t let me use my PC mouse to drop them, so I have to finagle my analog stick.

Maybe in FFXI and BDO. Not in FFXIV lol.

The main reason i quit FFXI last year was because, the raiding community "highly encourages" you to use Windower for Gearswap. If you dont use Gearswap they'll think your gimp or too lazy to use it and collect all the extra gear.

BDO - Hackers are literally exploiting everything in there since the GM's can't stop them and they're not allowed to permanently ban players, not even repeat offenders lol.

FFXIV - They banned the MogBoard Dev for using the companion app on his alt accounts to check prices for his website. Thousands of accounts get banned every 2-3 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Is the use of a 3rd party application specifically made for only pre-placing waymarks in game for a fight a bannable offense and against ToS?

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Technically - yes, it is agaisnt ToS. Hovewer, I suppose that in reality it's in the same "Grey zone" as ACT: as long as you don't mention tool in the game and do not harass people - you can use it. At least that was Yoshida's position about parsers: you can use it quietly, but if people will report you because you harass them or something - then administration will look for you and probably punish.

Are you altering the game to do things you normally can't do, IE always be able to hit Ruin 4 on a boss even during phase transitions/botting? If the answer is no, don't tell anyone.

Also, what's AMS?

Seems like the gist is it IS a bannable offense if caught, but not something that SE is hard-charging after(like actual hacking for unfair gain). Though it is more of a risk because of the code injection that is more detectable than a client-side parser.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Seems like the gist is it IS a bannable offense if caught, but not something that SE is hard-charging after(like actual hacking for unfair gain). Though it is more of a risk because of the code injection that is more detectable than a client-side parser.

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Essentially, yes. Though from GM chat logs people have posted, those that out themselves using a parser first seem to get a warning. So even if caught, it's not like instant-perma-ban.

Auto placing waymarks may be a little sketchier, since that's actually sending input. Versus a parser which is only reading, or a graphics mod which is only seen clientside. I still can't imagine SE going after it specifically, but technically it's still against the rules and no one can say 100% that SE will or won't do something about it.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

Are you altering the game to do things you normally can't do, IE always be able to hit Ruin 4 on a boss even during phase transitions/botting? If the answer is no, don't tell anyone.

Also, what's AMS?

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It was an addon in World of Warcraft before in-game markers were ever a thing that allowed placing anything from markers to lines in the game world by injecting code into the game that other players using the addon could see, which gave way for cheesing a couple of major fights in the game that required tight movement.

Looking back on it now, I'm not sure if any players were actually banned for using it, but it was such a popular addon for raiders that upon banning it was when Blizzard introduced ground markers to the game.

SE has a dedicated team who's only job is to ban ppl and they do a good job at it. They gain more money permabanning players since that player will most likely just buy the game again and purchase the MSQ/Leveling Skips.

This is not Black Desert Online where they have 1 teenager in charge of the entire NA playerbase and the most he can dish out is a courteous email telling you to not do it again and suspending you for 72 hours calling it a ban xD. That's why they have a speedhacker epidemic in that game, they have to shutdown some content since they can't figure out what to do xD.

I bet nearly 90 percent of people adamantly saying "It's against ToS, It's against ToS!" Use third party programs and parsers, lol. It's the kind of wink wink nudge nudge stuff that everyone does but no one talks about.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

devs have tools for detecting this sort of thing.

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Unlike Blizzard and WoW, this game does not have these...

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

I bet nearly 90 percent of people adamantly saying "It's against ToS, It's against ToS!" Use third party programs and parsers, lol. It's the kind of wink wink nudge nudge stuff that everyone does but no one talks about.

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Someone directly asked Yoshi P once about parsers and his response was "don't ask, don't tell" In short if you're not using automated programs to play the game (bot) and you're not harassing others over numbers and using the parse data just for your own personal use then you're mostly in the clear.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Is the use of a 3rd party application specifically made for only pre-placing waymarks in game for a fight a bannable offense and against ToS?

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Falls under automation and just third party program use in general, so yes.