Movement System (Like GW2) for Mounts

Preface, this isn't super important but I believe would make mounts feel and look a lot better and give the experience a quality feeling (imo).

To be clear this is for the smoothness of the mounts, the nice turns and controls, the flavor that makes them feel physical (GW2) this isn't for the exact reason GW2 uses them to get to high up places; although, it could totally be used in that way for progression and a serious flavoring to the mounts (especially since we don't start with flying unlocked and some zones don't accept flying at all as Reynhart points out).

I would be in huge favor of the movement ability flavoring and I believe it could be a really interesting part of progression either for areas we will fly in (unlocked later) or areas we cannot (Eureka like zones), even when we can fly there are many abilities that could still be useful or at least fun to use (like people use our mount abilities now and they do literally nothing lol). But I wanted to point out I started this thread in part because I just want my driving not to look so drunk and broken - I've had this feeling since ever but the car made me want to finally post about it lol.

If no one is familiar with GW2 mounts then please check out this short promo video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zoDp6rK9V0

If you prefer text there is a write up on their website:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/d...ent-on-mounts/

A vague tl;dr of GW2's system:
There are a different types of mount styles, that not only feel and look quite different but also have some abilities for moving around. Some mounts drift and glide, some can quickly change directions while others can't, some bound along and have great leaps in the air. This includes nice turning, stopping, roll, and pitch animations for movement. Besides different movement styles and abilities mounts in that game it also offers ways to enter combat and you can progress their skills for more powerful/useful variants of abilities and movement.

Hope:
Now I'm not demanding (rawr, lol) SE to go as far as GW2 did, if they could/wanted to that'd be great, but just something towards that way.

So my suggestion/hope, if it isn't too costly, is that each mount gains a new ability next to dismount (if a mount doesn't have dismount it should lol, I like that button - I know I can use the buff bar but yeh). This new ability will toggle between a the simulated control system and just straight up (w is forward, if you hit s your car will 180 super hard). This means if you hate it, you don't have to use it. The toggle will save in your settings so you can have it always off or on. So with the toggle on your car now controls closer to how a car controls (looking and feeling better), and it could come with some abilities for spice (good flavor opportunity, can also be used in some progression).

Just to add currently in this game you can change your control movements in system settings to improve the mount movement but you really don't want that movement system on your person for fighting lol. It's also not designed around the idea of mounts so it's still not quite right, I just wanted to point out there is an iffy option to make things a bit better.

So for a short example obviously wheeled vehicles could no longer 180 and would turn smoother, but perhaps gain a small speed boost (benefit for losing sharp turns) and if SE is feeling adventurous a set of wheeled movement abilities (like rocket jump). Things like the rocket could be used in progression of an area (if SE wanted to mix things up), like imagine some older FF games where the chocobos can make great leaps which was used to reach special items and locations.

While you might see a gliding mount (floating) have significantly reduced fall damage, speed boost buff (short duration) when falling, and pretty great turn radius.

A sea mount for example, like Syldra, could have some feature to it that gives it that aquatic excellence.

SE already details the mount movement style which could be one way they set up the system, although we could get more specific like wheeled terrestrial vs hooves or claw terrestrial depending on how detailed SE wanted/could afford to go. So it could be as simple as one toggle system that limits amount of weird turns for all mounts, or two that covers airborne vs terrestrial, or group based like (hooves, vs claws, vs wheels), etc, etc.

Also to add, since I mentioned abilities based on movement type (Regalia, SDS Fenrir, and Falcon for example getting a rocket boost ability) that I had also suggested two different systems that could slide/build into these new mount concepts:

Magitek Garage (Hammerhead Garage-esq) - which would let magitek gain new abilities based on what you equip them with. Like something pointless but pretty cute could be headlights to your magitek (headlights on your regalia :D). Something helpful maybe exclusive to the claw magitek is a leap attack out of the mount, and a 2 second stun from the claw as it grapples the enemy temporarily. Of course mounts are in the open world, so don't need to worry about breaking the game balance.

Chocobo Content Update - unlike other terrestrial mounts chocobo could be upgraded with a wider range of abilities (chocobos famous for taking on all environments, usually by feather color but we'll call it training here), including hot and cold digging :). The depth at chocobos could benefit is great because its both nostalgic and great for gameplay value as we have and could have progression systems related to it (chocobos famously gaining colors/ranks to do more for you).

Finally I want to add since you can turn it off at a toggle of a button, if you don't like or want it for the moment, that you're not going to have your mount suddenly become useless like in WoW where you might have had a 100% movement speed mount but now you have a 200% and there is no reason to use the 100% now. If you use the system, to help make the mounts control more believably and perhaps perform slightly better then great and if you choose not to use it for a flat consistent speed that is very similar to the other mode.. then great. Obviously if they use some of the system for progression that might not be fully true, but you could make the leap and turn it back off. Or consider that if it's part of progression it probably means SE sees enough value in it to take it seriously, so probably is polished enough to not be annoying enough to those who liked being able to 180 in their car for them still wanting to turn it off lol.

Just to add I know it's not important to the level of like if we get a raid or not (which is obviously core content) and I don't know if they could use some of what they made for chocobo racing for this (needs to be a lot smoother than chocobo racing though lol), but if it's possible and not really expensive I feel like it could add a lot of good feelings to mounts. When my car turns super jerky or 180s.. it feels and looks really weird lol. In fact I try to drive smoother when on certain mounts just for appearance sake but I'd love if the system promoted that feeling like GW2 (the quality of my hand movements is not near that to a system :)).

So at a simple level it just makes mounts feel a bit more physical (option to stop very weird mind dispelling movements and rather make them compelling movements). And if we take it to a more complex level it could be a new way to experience the world, all depending on how far or little you go with it.

But that wouldn't really..... do anything. If it's totally optional, it doesn't serve a purpose. In GW2 those mounts have specific abilities because they were designed to help you reach certain areas of the game. The Springer especially, the rabbit, is meant to jump really high because a lot of areas in GW2 are very vertical. It works for that game because that's the game it was designed for. They can't fly in GW2, you can just glide or use the griffon mount. Being able to fly in this game makes all of their unique mount abilities pointless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doozer

But that wouldn't really..... do anything. If it's totally optional, it doesn't serve a purpose. In GW2 those mounts have specific abilities because they were designed to help you reach certain areas of the game. The Springer especially, the rabbit, is meant to jump really high because a lot of areas in GW2 are very vertical. It works for that game because that's the game it was designed for. They can't fly in GW2, you can just glide or use the griffon mount. Being able to fly in this game makes all of their unique mount abilities pointless.

---

Maybe I wasn't clear - I've edited a bit to be a bit more clear, I was specifically on about the smoothness of the mounts. How the mounts feel connected rather than like one moment you're going north and a key press later it's 180 an entire whale on one pivotal point.

Its for the feeling. Also beyond that just to argue against your point, it could do something - there are points of time in the game where you can't fly. But the purpose wasn't to argue for that. In addition unique mount abilities wouldn't become pointless, people use the sneeze on goobbue and that's "pointless" (flavor != pointless) but priority argument wasn't that we need to have a bunch of movement abilities as the priority was on smooth controls (though some flavor movement abilities would be a really nice bonus that I'm not against).

It was like "I really want smooth mount controls" and if you could do these other things that could be fun too (valuable progression depending).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doozer

But that wouldn't really..... do anything. If it's totally optional

---

Alternatively think of it this way, the glamour system doesn't really do anything then (under the concept that having an optional mount system doesn't do anything).

So of course it does actually do something as visuals are important. A car that drives a bit closer to a car (like how GW2 mounts control different) would feel /a lot/ better (to me) than a car or whale that 180 swivels on the spot and veers violently when you change direction with a key press (control with camera helps smooth out the ride, a bit). It could do more, like progression similar to how GW2 has but it doesn't have to (as pointed out we have no flying zones, until we unlock them, and some zones are always no fly). Of course being part of progression would take some of the optional concept out of it.. which is both good in that it's a new way for the devs to present their world and bad for those who don't want it. I'd want it but I wasn't initially looking to lock people into a life style choice by asking for smoother controls and more mount flavor lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doozer

Being able to fly in this game makes all of their unique mount abilities pointless.

---

If they decide to make more big instances like they did with Eureka, you could end in zones where flying is restricted. Besides, you usually unlock flying in a zone once you don't really have anything else to do there, so those mounts could be useful for "progression", opening some quests to focus more on exploration or jump puzzles than combat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

Maybe I wasn't clear - I've edited a bit to be a bit more clear, I was specifically on about the smoothness of the mounts. How the mounts feel connected rather than like one moment you're going north and a key press later it's 180 an entire whale on one pivotal point.

Its for the feeling. Also beyond that just to argue against your point, it could do something - there are points of time in the game where you can't fly. But the purpose wasn't to argue for that. In addition unique mount abilities wouldn't become pointless, people use the sneeze on goobbue and that's "pointless" (flavor != pointless) but priority argument wasn't that we need to have a bunch of movement abilities as the priority was on smooth controls (though some flavor movement abilities would be a really nice bonus that I'm not against).

---

So if I understand you correctly, what youre asking for is turning radiuses on mounts, where you cant flip your mount around instantly, but requires time to turn?

I think some mounts could use this for better look and feel (such as the bike, as turning just rotates the model rather than having you lean into the direction. Would be a nice visual choice aesthetically). But you know people are gonna complain about it. To many people used to turning on a dime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

So if I understand you correctly, what youre asking for is turning radiuses on mounts, where you cant flip your mount around instantly, but requires time to turn?

I think some mounts could use this for better look and feel (such as the bike, as turning just rotates the model rather than having you lean into the direction. Would be a nice visual choice aesthetically). But you know people are gonna complain about it. To many people used to turning on a dime.

---

That's the beginning idea yeah~ And I totally argree people, at least some, would be like.. NO let me turn instantly. In fact I do that for my personal character for combat purposes (you can turn on a different movement style in settings to get longer turns lol but then it'll mess up combat, also it isn't designed around the idea of mounts so it can help but isn't ideal).

That's why I said the mount "personality" should be optional :D. Also I said beginning of the idea because I think they could add rolls/tilts to floating mounts and other characteristics to give them a polished physical feeling. Use this addition to the mount movement system to polish the mount experience a little, if possible.

I figured a very simple solution might be possible using some of their current movement systems they've already made (non-legacy movement + chocobo systems they've worked on) but if they have the passion or time for it I felt they could make a wheeled mount feel different from a chocobo from a floating whale. Because I'm almost always solo in the open world I'm not worried if I can't turn or go the EXACT same speed as everyone else, some pros and cons for visual could (imo) add a lot of the game feeling.

Sort of how one may say glamour isn't important to gameplay (doesn't add any stats to you) but yet it's super important to many user's experience lol, this is to argue that mounts feeling a bit different than walking really fast might be good haha :D.

Like if a floating mount (lets say the floating moogle) didn't hit the ground like a rock.. because it's... floating.. lol. Turn on the experience for a few costs and benefits that add to immersion or turn it off if you just liked it how it was. I'm not here trying to force people to do 2 point turns :p.

Reynhart pointed out that it could definitely be used for progression but I just wanted to say the system could be as straight forward as adding a new option in the system menu or as complex as making mounts feel unique from each other. Which is why I suggested a basic level "unique" from each other might just be using their movement type (terrestrial vs airborne).

I guess the pushback youll get is novelty. It sounds wonderful at first but after a while, the novelty will wear off and people will start just reverting to the old set up out of expedience. From that consideration, I dunno if SE would invest time and money into that. Id love it personally, but not sure if the demand is there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doozer

But that wouldn't really..... do anything. If it's totally optional, it doesn't serve a purpose. In GW2 those mounts have specific abilities because they were designed to help you reach certain areas of the game. The Springer especially, the rabbit, is meant to jump really high because a lot of areas in GW2 are very vertical. It works for that game because that's the game it was designed for. They can't fly in GW2, you can just glide or use the griffon mount. Being able to fly in this game makes all of their unique mount abilities pointless.

---

open your mind a little. This is a great idea and a great new concept for content. We could have areas designed just for special mounts for relics questing that open up special move sets for exploration on and off mounts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

I guess the pushback youll get is novelty. It sounds wonderful at first but after a while, the novelty will wear off and people will start just reverting to the old set up out of expedience. From that consideration, I dunno if SE would invest time and money into that. Id love it personally, but not sure if the demand is there.

---

Definitely a fair criticism, I'm not sure either. I was thinking that they have a sort of movement option already so it MAY (huge may lol) be possible to take that core concept and code, modify it slightly, add it as a new option in the menu and call it a day. However I feel like going deeper could add a lot of immersion and fun experience shift.

It would also depend on how they approach it, perhaps a clawed animal goes up hills faster when on the simulated movement mode. Cars go down hill faster. Or a mount has simulated mode only abilities that boost it's speed but it goes slower without them (faster in whole if you do well), so you can play a little mini game (nothing complex but something different to experience). In that scenario I think a lot more people would keep it on, to play with the new toys (and more immersive visual).

I don't want massive resources redirected to the system though (unless they can justify it), just if its something one person at the company finds interesting to work on as a passion project or if they can make it happen quickly with systems they've got going on already.

It might be justify able if they can see it being useful for other content in the game. Like if they decided to delay flying in a zone to even later but wanted players to experience making a jump with a rocket boost off their wheeled mount (one given to the player just encase they don't own Falcon, SDS, or Regalia). Which I think could be great as it serves to make movement more enjoyable before flying and also give each zone a greater time to shine and unfold before being stripped to reveal all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guardin

open your mind a little. This is a great idea and a great new concept for content. We could have areas designed just for special mounts for relics questing that open up special move sets for exploration on and off mounts.

---

I could see a Eureka like zone using something like this to great effect. That'd be awesome. We keep flying for most zones but a few zones gain a new environmental progression :). I could also see if they delay flying in zones that we might get good use out of that. Potentially a lot of chocobo content in that concept too!! (/dies for chocobo content).

One of the things I don't know if other people miss but Chocobos in a few other FF games were able to jump to some hard to reach locations. I get that feeling when I think about this system and your idea about relic and stuff.

Sort of miss those cute chocobo hops lol.

I just wish I could flight straight up. If you fly out of The House of the Fierce, Yanxia then you know you need to cork screw your way up and out of that place.

Turning radii would be neat, if technically detrimental... So that certain mounts don't look weird when turning around (I.e. Regalia. Also... How DOES the Regalia turn? Like, all the wheels are inside the bodywork, so unless it works like a Tank and drives only right/left side wheels it wouldn't actually be able to turn and if it DOES work that way, well, it'd have a trash turning circle and speed basically requiring it to stop and then rotate...)

Though, honestly, for "Feel" of mounts, I think BDO does it best. Not only does your horse (And carriage) feel like a physical being, with acceleration, turning radii, being weighed down by having a lot of heavy crap in the saddlebags, and different max speeds depending on the quality of the terrain... But they were also persistent entities in the game. You didn't poof them out of thin air. You picked it up from the stable and rode it to where you needed to be, then when you got off it... It'd be standing right where you left it until you returned (Unless you paid a nearby stable to come pick it up for you)

Obviously such a design would not work in XIV, especially not after having established the current system for so long... But it was really cool. (Even if I would be constantly asking myself "Dude, where's my horse?" while playing :rolleyes:)

As far as improving mount abilities in FFXIV goes... I don't know... Since, it kind of limits the freedom of riding the cool mount you want, if you get a special bonus for having a certain ability in a zone (Especially if its a zone like Eureka where it's supposed to be butt to try and get around). It also opens up some "P2W" potential if MogStation mounts gained unique or better abilities. This is to say nothing about whether the engine can cope with adding such things in (We don't have any "Gliding" actions as is... We also need a loading screen to transition from above/below water :rolleyes:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guardin

open your mind a little. This is a great idea and a great new concept for content. We could have areas designed just for special mounts for relics questing that open up special move sets for exploration on and off mounts.

---

Then I'll say what people always say when someone suggests a completely new feature: I'd rather they focus on fixing or improving already existing content. If they spend all their time and budget on mounts with turning radii then we'll get less of other things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krojack

I just wish I could flight straight up. If you fly out of The House of the Fierce, Yanxia then you know you need to cork screw your way up and out of that place.

---

This, though, would be the single biggest QOL change to flight, and implementing it would probably just require changing a single constant. At most, changing that single constant and then changing one mathematical calculation so that there isn't a divide by zero error. Currently the options are ascend slowly (hold jump button) or corkscrew. Just let us fly at all angles, realism be damned.


As far as visual things go, banked turns are about as far as I feel we would need to go with dev time spent on mount movement. Just set a max tilt for each mount, and then while in motion have the mount tilt more toward that angle the longer the turn button is held.