The Last Races

Assuming we get Male Viera and Female Hrothgar, hopefully someday in the future, "should" these be the last races SE adds with how difficult it is to add races to the game?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Assuming we get Male Viera and Female Hrothgar, hopefully someday in the future, "should" these be the last races SE adds with how difficult it is to add races to the game?

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They said these were the last. Appears to be a lot of work or they wouldn't have said that. Personally I'd be happy with Limited races where they don't need to refit all the old gear but just the new stuff and and add some special race specific exclusive items.

they should be the last
and then they should work on improving character creator afterwards

honestly though with the plump miqote in the ShB trailer i feel like they are just gonna go with allied races in WOW just get different kinds of miqote,elezen,au ra etc etc

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

They said these were the last. Appears to be a lot of work or they wouldn't have said that.

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They said "probably" the last. Doesn't mean that SE wont do them again if they feel they can.

While I know (and can appericiate) that the look of their character is an important part of the game for many people - myself actually included to some degree - I dont feel like the amount of work it takes them to develop and introduce new races has a huge enough benefit to the overall game and to most of the playerbase to warrant it.
I'd rather see them spend their ressources on either more "gameplay-content" (dungeons, trials etc. - stuff that you can actually play) or to enhance the "glamour"-options we already have (give existing races more options to pick from, like faces etc. or create more costumes and the like).

I might be wrong but I'm under the impression that often new races arent requested because they would fill a real void, but rather because people just want any new race - just for the sake of it being new. I can understand the desire for Viera, specially since it was an already known race AND they showed some concept-art and I kinda get why Hrothgar are going to be a thing (they really do fill a niche in the game). But beyond that I feel that we're at a point where we have a good choice between races and that a lot of follow up requests would be more of the sort "I just want something new!!" - which I just dont get... are people so unhappy with their characters...?
I just feel like even if our character-creator is limited, everyone should already be able to create a good looking character - so the amount of work stands in no relation to the benefit to me.

Even though I'm extremly happy that they added FemRoes as option with 2.0, I would have still enjoyed the game playing as a different character. Thats why the game to me seems perfectly playable and enjoyable, even with the races that already exist. Adding more adds to little to the overall experience of the game - specially for the majority of the playerbase who wont even pick one of the new races (whatever they might be).

I don't mind if they are the last, honestly. But I do hope that they'll revisit the character customization in the future if they choose not to add any new races. It would be really lovely to get some fresh new face options for the existing races. I'm waiting with bated breath to see if they offer us more extensive options for Hrothgar and Viera, since that might be an indication that they could possibly be planning to extend options for other characters as well. (tbh I'll be a bit disappointed if it's the standard "here are 4 preset faces with very slightly different options, go crazy")

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Originally Posted by Mikki

I don't mind if they are the last, honestly. But I do hope that they'll revisit the character customization in the future if they choose not to add any new races. It would be really lovely to get some fresh new face options for the existing races. I'm waiting with bated breath to see if they offer us more extensive options for Hrothgar and Viera, since that might be an indication that they could possibly be planning to extend options for other characters as well. (tbh I'll be a bit disappointed if it's the standard "here are 4 preset faces with very slightly different options, go crazy")

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A friend told me they will have more face options than previous races. She also said that was because they could offer these additional features because there were no opposite gender counterparts. I can't say if that is true but I think that was discussed on Reddit where she spends a lot of time. We should find out about the additional options if they exist soon.

Yes. We arguably should not have seen Viera and Hrothgar added. Instead, the existing playable races should have been given enhanced customisation options. We're reaching a point where the NPC's look so much better and well designed compared to player characters.

They mentioned they are playing with the body morphs when they did the Fat Cats, so they might be coming out with a few #currentyear (at least it's not WoW's lol) model features which could be really cool. New character creation options would be nice (highlander eyebrows yes yes).

I think they could add some side races later, a bit like Allied Races. For example in another thread I made a short blurb of how the Sil'Dih (sister city of Ul'dah) had to move their bodies into advance mammets (Vivi) because of the messy halls of endless nights full of zombie hordes attacking them. Vivi race uses lalafell animations, just looks like vivi when cloaked and looks like one of the fancy mammets we already see in game when fully naked.

Or a race of Au Ra trapped in an Allaghan machine that tore part of their mountain into the void and over the years their scale and horn like features exaggerated to the point they look closer to their concept art (female Au Ra using a fuller/plumper Viera model and animation set with tweaks to only specific animations, male model just becoming a bit thicker and new more extreme scale options).

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Originally Posted by Theodric

We're reaching a point where the NPC's look so much better and well designed compared to player characters.

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NPC are cheating, typing in some hax to get the unlocked character creation kit. Give me that mod! :3.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

"should" these be the last races SE adds with how difficult it is to add races to the game?

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That depends entirely on what perspective you're looking at things from.

If the dev team gets no additional resources and thus is incapable of keeping up their quality with other aspects of the game AND designing new playable races. Then yes, these SHOULD be the last new races. Since, while yes, more races is more customization, at the end of the day, it's the core content of the game that keeps us playing (Even if the real end game is glamour... We still need new pretty clothes to wear). Besides, we already have femko'te why would we need any other races ;)

If the dev team does get additional resources and thus becomes capable of adding new races alongside other content... Then maybe? It's hard to say. New races can be cool, but at the same time could those resources be spent somewhere else - Such as developing the current races customisation? Adding more depth to the Glamour system (Such as dying different parts of gear!)?

I think if they do have the possibility to add more races, they should do so sparingly as well as make a point to do so as a way of developing the world and lore - Such as if Tonberries became a playable race I'd want to see the lore about how they became accepted by others, how they prevented the sickness from spreading, what is to come out of the research into the cure for the sickness, how they managed to get their ability to control aether up to a high standard again etc.

As opposed to slapping a race in because it looks cool and then just writing a bit of lore about where they came from/where they fit into things (Especially 2.0 MSQ timeline...)

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

A friend told me they will have more face options than previous races. She also said that was because they could offer these additional features because there were no opposite gender counterparts. I can't say if that is true but I think that was discussed on Reddit where she spends a lot of time. We should find out about the additional options if they exist soon.

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I'm going entirely off memory here, but I think that was in conjunction with the lack of headgear, not the gender lock - and they didn't specifically say we'd get more options, just something to the effect that "not being constrained by headgear means that we can include options we couldn't include otherwise". Which coukd be interpreted as a larger number of choices, but I think it's more likely that they just meant they could give them facial features that wouldn't work if they had to stick with the standard helmet designs.

If they've found a way to actually fit more options into the character data, I would greatly hope that new choices would be added for ALL character designs.

I suppose the one possibility is if they've somehow rigged the gender data to instead carry some other design element - assuming they're not data-wise two genders of one race - but that would completely cut off the possibility of releasing the other genders for the sake of maybe one more on/off design choice. If such a thing is even possible for their program, which it probably isn't.



In any case, it's best not to go with the "a friend of a friend said...." kind of info about upcoming game features, especially when it's promising something that would then be disappointing if it doesn't come to pass.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

They mentioned they are playing with the body morphs when they did the Fat Cats, so they might be coming out with a few #currentyear (at least it's not WoW's lol) model features which could be really cool. New character creation options would be nice (highlander eyebrows yes yes).

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I was wondering whether the "fat cats" might not actually be a separate or altered body model, but just the NPC-equivalent of a fat suit - so all the body shape is built into the gear, and it all animates on the same standard Miqo'te skeleton. I assume we'll have to wait until the game comes out and see what it looks like in the character data.

Otherwise it just seems strange to put effort into this different body model for NPCs over all the other graphical update possibilities that are likely to be more popular.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I was wondering whether the "fat cats" might not actually be a separate or altered body model, but just the NPC-equivalent of a fat suit - so all the body shape is built into the gear, and it all animates on the same standard Miqo'te skeleton. I assume we'll have to wait until the game comes out and see what it looks like in the character data.

Otherwise it just seems strange to put effort into this different body model for NPCs over all the other graphical update possibilities that are likely to be more popular.

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This is all I could find on it :3

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Itaru-san requests for more character customization options like making their character older (wrinkles). Yoshida answers by saying that the technology at tha time wasn’t advanced enough to include a lot of options for customization. Second, the body customization (fat or slim) may cause the body polygon to go haywire if they allow such option and us players will not be pleased about it. However, as said in the keynote they ARE currently challenging in allowing more options in body optimization. Not much at first but they want to gradually solve the challenge

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Q: We saw the plumped Miqo’tes in the trailers. Is there a possibility that players might be able to become like that, too? Also, will the Dwarves say “Lali-ho!”?

Yoshida: This has nothing to do with the previous “handsome and beautiful” I talked about earlier. Of course, there are different body types around the world. However, the fact is that due to the budget, we didn’t make those kinds of variations. This time we gave ourselves some freedom with the budget and it all started from the thought that maybe we should make a different body type for an existing race. I think we were able to make great characters. There are characters that are involved with the Main Scenario, so please, after you see them in the MSQ, please give us some feedback.

As for “Lali-ho”, I think it would be more interesting if I don’t say anything in that regard (laugh).

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Assuming we get Male Viera and Female Hrothgar, hopefully someday in the future, "should" these be the last races SE adds with how difficult it is to add races to the game?

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It probably isn't difficult to add a new race to the game but having to add compatibility to said races is what's difficult. They can't add old armor to new races without first changing asset appearances for them, which adds to the game's size, rendering, and they really have to test just about everything in every circumstance. But what they probably end up doing is place said races in a few different test levels to make sure it works under most circumstances and then give it a whirl here and there until they feel confident enough. Players can report bugs and they can fix it later.

But, if there are 20,000 outfits, they would have to add 20,000 new outfits to said races. This is a lot of work and probably a good reason why they won't add new races. I'm sure most people can understand how much it would cost to do this and why it's better to just focus on other parts of the game. 5.0 is their biggest expansion yet and afterwards it's going to be 6.0 in maybe 2-3 years which I'm guessing will be the last major DLC.

I hope so, then they can focus on existing races. Body, butt and other sliders need to be added for further customization. Also please give Highlanders eye brows lol I was instantly turned off by the character model because of that

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

A friend told me they will have more face options than previous races. She also said that was because they could offer these additional features because there were no opposite gender counterparts. I can't say if that is true but I think that was discussed on Reddit where she spends a lot of time. We should find out about the additional options if they exist soon.

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More head options, yes. That's what they said at Fan Fest. More accurately, they said "unique" heads with more options.

As for why they didn't do male Viera and female Hrothgar, it wasn't because of the unique heads. It was because they simply didn't have the time. They started development right after Stormblood was released, and they knew they would only have time to make one race... meaning a male and female of a single race. But since they wanted to make both Viera and Hrothgar, they split the difference and did one gender of each.

If they have the time and resources, they might finish the remaining genders, but he isn't making any promises.


As to the OP... no, I don't think they really need to add any more races. Sure, finish off the genders if they want, but I would rather see effort gone into improving existing races.

They said last races but they didn't say last genders.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Assuming we get Male Viera and Female Hrothgar, hopefully someday in the future, "should" these be the last races SE adds with how difficult it is to add races to the game?

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should they be.. No they shouldn't but they are.

they should add in 1 more tiny races be it moogles drones idk but 1 more short race for true balance on races

While I don't think that they should ever think of the game's future using words like "never" or "last" I do think it's perfectly fine to pace themselves out over multiple expansions. Like we don't need a new race/healer/tank/melee/caster/ranged every, or every other expansion. I'm fine with the story inspiring (or be presented to inspire) the designs of a new race or class, instead of them just shoehorning in something because they feel like they need to meet an expansion feature quota (cough, au ra, cough)

Plus they can do overhauls that they haven't tried before like fixing all those godawful textures, optimizing their gear creation process, adding new character creation features to existing races, adding wildlife interaction and dynamic npcs (predator monsters hunting prey monsters, starting asleep at night or in day if they're nocturnal, non-essential npcs wandering around with a kind of logic #GiveThoseDancingMiqotesPottyBreaks)

Maybe if they stop making new races, they can start making more RSE.

I feel like after they add the male Viera and female Hrothgar (If they even do that.) they’ll be done adding new races.
Then they can focus on making the original 5 look better.

They definitely should work on expanding the CC options after they add male Viera and female Hrothgar.

While it'd be nice if they're considering body shape customization like yoshi-p mentioned, I think they should start with something simpler like adding more face options.
This should require less work since they don't need to refit gears.

Regarding the last races comment... well Yoshi-p said many things in the past that he ended up backtracking, like BLU for example.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

They said "probably" the last. Doesn't mean that SE wont do them again if they feel they can.

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When they revealed viera they said prob last so that hrothgar would be a shocker.

These are the last.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

When they revealed viera they said prob last so that hrothgar would be a shocker.

These are the last.

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They said similar thing ("probably last") again after the Hrothgar reveal tho.

It just seems very odd if they really have put specific resources into making "fat cats" something widely accessible. It doesn't seem like something that would have enough draw to be worth the budget and the re-fitting of all the gear. It seems at odds with all the decisions they've made so far.

Until more detail comes up, I'm more inclined to read their statements as "we made something interesting specifically for these MSQ characters" and not "we're letting players freely change the body shape of their characters".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It just seems very odd if they really have put specific resources into making "fat cats" something widely accessible. It doesn't seem like something that would have enough draw to be worth the budget and the re-fitting of all the gear. It seems at odds with all the decisions they've made so far.

Until more detail comes up, I'm more inclined to read their statements as "we made something interesting specifically for these MSQ characters" and not "we're letting players freely change the body shape of their characters".

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As someone who is fat in real life I don't see why anyone would want a fat body shape for their character. Not only is it not pleasant to look at, trying to do battle or anything like our characters do in game would be bending the laws of reality even more than I'M comfortable with lol.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

As someone who is fat in real life I don't see why anyone would want a fat body shape for their character. Not only is it not pleasant to look at, trying to do battle or anything like our characters do in game would be bending the laws of reality even more than I'M comfortable with lol.

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That's my feelings on it too, but it seems like some people are excited by the prospect and want to see it happen. (Whether it's for that specifically or the as-yet-unsupported idea that we might get other body variations.)

I don't think it makes sense for someone as active as the Warrior of Light to get that overweight anyway - even the mages are on cross-country hikes and need to be agile in battle. And it probably doesn't make sense with the (very approximate) time period either, unless they're lazy nobles like the fat cats have been described as.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

As someone who is fat in real life I don't see why anyone would want a fat body shape for their character. Not only is it not pleasant to look at, trying to do battle or anything like our characters do in game would be bending the laws of reality even more than I'M comfortable with lol.

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You'd be surprised.

Also fat people doing battle is bending the laws of reality? lol

I hope they are the last if nothing else then to keep the threads down when it's something that a certain subset doesnt want or sees it as something to gripe about cause nobody can just enjoy things anymore.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

As someone who is fat in real life I don't see why anyone would want a fat body shape for their character. Not only is it not pleasant to look at, trying to do battle or anything like our characters do in game would be bending the laws of reality even more than I'M comfortable with lol.

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. . . . I have so many gaming news places to contact! "FFXIV players weight shame" :3 I jest!

I'd never play a jiggly heavy character (because I want look stronk) but what I was hoping with the plump kittens was a new morph they developed. So to me it's not "yay I get to play overweight" but "oh my, did they just add the ability to add new sliders to their game?". Like in Skyrim you can fiddle with your character's details, and this can morph your armor a bit - I'm excited at the idea of fat cats because it might mean they've found a way to make our models have more wiggle room (jiggle room? eh eh? :D). Like muscle slider that is actually 3d (vs texture).

Of course as people point it, could simply be just a preset body shape with preset armor created for it (which means no new morphing tech for our character editors).

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Originally Posted by Fland

Also fat people doing battle is bending the laws of reality? lol

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With the amount that our characters' bodies can already clip through themselves during certain poses... it possibly could be.

I'd be okay with a shorter, more wide set race and a short, slender race as additions at some point... but should SE choose not to due to workload, I think players need to chill.

I also think if additional races got added I'd prefer them not to be + animal features because we have more than enough of those at this point. I'm just super into silhouette variation and messing with designs so more possibility is fun for me. I do think having a tone that figures play into (ex. cute, tough, elegant, etc.) is smart and I get that some of the silhouette possibilities I mentioned can be a bit trickier in some ways.

I still think short, very slender, more alien looking Lunarians would offer one possibility. Wide set would want to brainstorm a bit because dwarves are getting used as a beast tribe on the First, so would have to be something else.

Also, frankly I love spooky builds too and while it's possible to make one we don't really have a grotesque playable race. If we don't get one that's okay but ghouls are fun.

If SE wants to expand there are definitely new silhouettes/body types they could go with though.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

I'd be okay with a shorter, more wide set race and a short, slender race as additions at some point... but should SE choose not to due to workload, I think players need to chill.

I also think if additional races got added I'd prefer them not to be + animal features because we have more than enough of those at this point. I'm just super into silhouette variation and messing with designs so more possibility is fun for me. I do think having a tone that figures play into (ex. cute, tough, elegant, etc.) is smart and I get that some of the silhouette possibilities I mentioned can be a bit trickier in some ways.

I still think short, very slender, more alien looking Lunarians would offer one possibility. Wide set would want to brainstorm a bit because dwarves are getting used as a beast tribe on the First, so would have to be something else.

Also, frankly I love spooky builds too and while it's possible to make one we don't really have a grotesque playable race. If we don't get one that's okay but ghouls are fun.

If SE wants to expand there are definitely new silhouettes/body types they could go with though.

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Hildabrand has Zombies so if they wanted to add a Zombie Clan to all the race t hey wouldn't really need to do much but some textures like rotting skin and skin colors.

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Originally Posted by Fland

You'd be surprised.

Also fat people doing battle is bending the laws of reality? lol

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I just meant fat people get worn out more easily than a physical fit person. Also I was overly exaggerating :)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

With the amount that our characters' bodies can already clip through themselves during certain poses... it possibly could be.

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Tbf Eastern vs Western weight standards are really different. I don't think we'd get to hit the level fat miqo'te do in the ShB trailer for example, particularly since they're specifically demonstrating how people on the First are diving into excess while the world falls apart around them. But i think we could get something around lalafell types of chubby but taller and with different proportions in spots.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Hildabrand has Zombies so if they wanted to add a Zombie Clan to all the race t hey wouldn't really need to do much but some textures like rotting skin and skin colors.

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I would ABSOLUTELY endorse that! Could be a lot of fun!

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

As someone who is fat in real life I don't see why anyone would want a fat body shape for their character. Not only is it not pleasant to look at, trying to do battle or anything like our characters do in game would be bending the laws of reality even more than I'M comfortable with lol.

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Been a bit overweight following an illness (going down though!) so coming from that place too, honestly I think it depends a lot on degree? Way I figure it, whether it's skinny, muscular, or overweight this is a question of degree. If you go way too extreme in any of those directions it starts looking like a health problem and reads unpleasant to others. Short of extreme though, imo it's totally possible for someone who is overweight to still look nice. How clothing fits goes a long way toward accentuating different features and good hygiene/makeup/overall style helps a bunch. That said, prob that kind of race would run into similar critiques to what elezen receive. Gotta know how to manage proportions and different clothing fits to maximize aesthetic. It's basically hard mode of design haha.

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Originally Posted by Fland

They said similar thing ("probably last") again after the Hrothgar reveal tho.

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I don't remember them ever, saying that after the Hrothgar.

But lets look at this logically ...
Viera reveal, say this is prob the last new race.
Hrothgar reveal shows that there IS 1 more race and both these races are monogendered.
find out that they don't have the resources to MAKE and SUPPORT 2 genders for both races. Tells people it cost ton to make new races and it's intensive af so as of now no plans to make those genders.

"Welp, I see no reason to think this is the end of new races"

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's my feelings on it too, but it seems like some people are excited by the prospect and want to see it happen. (Whether it's for that specifically or the as-yet-unsupported idea that we might get other body variations.)

I don't think it makes sense for someone as active as the Warrior of Light to get that overweight anyway - even the mages are on cross-country hikes and need to be agile in battle. And it probably doesn't make sense with the (very approximate) time period either, unless they're lazy nobles like the fat cats have been described as.

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many warriors ,fighters are fat lol take Sumo wrestling as example.

fat fighters can be op they just lack speed but who would need speed with body weight as a defense

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think it makes sense for someone as active as the Warrior of Light to get that overweight anyway - even the mages are on cross-country hikes and need to be agile in battle. And it probably doesn't make sense with the (very approximate) time period either, unless they're lazy nobles like the fat cats have been described as.

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it doesnt make sense for au ra girls to be half the size of the males along with a miriad other racial tomfoollery but here we are on moon logic island