Suggestion for those wanting male Vieras

I would like to suggest organizing an in-game event with a member from each world to show and gain support for the cause from each of the individual servers on a specific date or during a date range.

I am female and I play female characters but I fully support male Vieras. I do not personally have adequate time the cause deserves but I have no doubt there are many out there who do and would give all they have to make the push on their individual servers. Perhaps everyone on each server could wear bunny ears and gather in the main cities to openly discuss their desire and support.

I appreciate your efforts to the cause of making Eorzea more inclusive. FFXIV can lead the gaming industry in a huge way by allowing more freedom during the character creation process and each of us can play a role in making that happen simply by showing our individual desire and support.

By "openly discuss" you also mean to include in the conversation whoever is against the idea?

I really rather they focus on gameplay though...

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

By "openly discuss" you also mean to include in the conversation whoever is against the idea?

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I am very open to hearing the opposing side of such a discussion.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

By "openly discuss" you also mean to include in the conversation whoever is against the idea?

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of course not, how can we otherwise convince Square that this is the most important issue they should address?

Rather they fix broken classes like MCH, WHM, DRK, etc... that need a face lift, my dude. Bunny bois can wait.

People need to let this go...

Ah yes male viera thread number 4,567. Welcome to general discussion please wipe your feet before stepping on my lawn.

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Originally Posted by Ashyra

I would like to suggest organizing an in-game event with a member from each world to show and gain support for the cause from each of the individual servers on a specific date or during a date range.

I am female and I play female characters but I fully support male Vieras. I do not personally have adequate time the cause deserves but I have no doubt there are many out there who do and would give all they have to make the push on their individual servers. Perhaps everyone on each server could wear bunny ears and gather in the main cities to openly discuss their desire and support.

I appreciate your efforts to the cause of making Eorzea more inclusive. FFXIV can lead the gaming industry in a huge way by allowing more freedom during the character creation process and each of us can play a role in making that happen simply by showing our individual desire and support.

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How about instead, we wait for Yoshi P and Koji Fox to address the masses about the possibility for the missing genders instead of all this stuff that will more then likely turn them off with how obsessed the west is with this topic?

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Rather they fix broken classes like MCH, WHM, DRK, etc... that need a face lift, my dude. Bunny bois can wait.

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They are perfectly capable of doing more than one thing at once... also the teams that would adjust numbers and gameplay of the jobs aren't the same people who would create new character models.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Rather they fix broken classes like MCH, WHM, DRK, etc... that need a face lift, my dude. Bunny bois can wait.

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Thats not how development teams work. The same people who make races aren't the ones who work on job balance.

Why male Vieras only in particular? Why not both genders of the two races?

And rather than making an in-game event, why not focus on the threads here that are asking for that? Since after all the uproar after live letter and news medias talking about this and players sharing those threads, only around 1600, out of all the players that knows about this topic, showed their support for one (with 1400 doing so in the first 5 days and the remaining 200 over a span of 4 weeks). And if you want to say that not everyone knows about the threads, then that's a reason why you'd be better off focusing on that. And if you're going to say not everyone uses the forums or cares about it, then that shows exactly that the issue isn't important enough for them to care about it to the point that they would bother checking the forums and show their support in an official way that SE can consider.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Why male Vieras only in particular? Why not both genders of the two races?

And rather than making an in-game event, why not focus on the threads here that are asking for that? Since after all the uproar after live letter and news medias talking about this and players sharing those threads, only around 1600 showed their support for one (with 1400 doing so in the first 5 days and the remaining 200 over a span of 4 weeks). And if you want to say that not everyone knows about the threads, then that's a reason why you'd be better off focusing on that. And if you're going to say not everyone uses the forums or cares about it, then that shows exactly that the issue isn't important enough for them to care about it to the point that they would bother checking the forums and show their support in an official way that SE can consider.

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BECAUSE BUNNI BOIES ARE IN HIGH DEMAND, CAIT BOIS DON'T DO IT ANYMORE, BRING ON THE NEW MANCAKE! (also there is a startling amount of shota lovers who want smol bunbois for their Nee-chan/Onii-san fetishes)

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

(also there is a startling amount of shota lovers who want smol bunbois for their Nee-chan/Onii-san fetishes)

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One reason out of many as to why Yoshi P considers us whiners in the west lol.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

One reason out of many as to why Yoshi P considers us whiners in the west lol.

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LOL "Whiners of the West" I can't.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Rather they fix broken classes like MCH, WHM, DRK, etc... that need a face lift, my dude. Bunny bois can wait.

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Well, idf the time could be used to fix broken classes, bunny girls and bara cat bois can wait too.

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Originally Posted by Ashyra

I would like to suggest organizing an in-game event with a member from each world to show and gain support for the cause from each of the individual servers on a specific date or during a date range.

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I don't know what you hope to accomplish with this.

This accomplishes nothing.

People gathering together to go "Yeah we want male viera" really isn't going to do anything.

Its not going to magically give SE the resources to make them.

They said in the future maybe, but the damn expansion isn't even out yet.

Can people PLEASE be patient for once instead of wanting instant results.

At this point it's more about admitting their mistake and offering an apology. Once some more info came out things calmed down some, though there is still a demand, people understood their reasons then. But the way they manipulated us, it's almost like they wanted the backlash. While Yoshi-P might not fully know the extent of the west's opinions, him understanding the Japanese side made him realize they need to release media differently.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

At this point it's more about admitting their mistake and offering an apology. Once some more info came out things calmed down some, though there is still a demand, people understood their reasons then. But the way they manipulated us, it's almost like they wanted the backlash. While Yoshi-P might not fully know the extent of the west's opinions, him understanding the Japanese side made him realize they need to release media differently.

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What Mistake? They never promised male veira. That was a fan expectation.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Rather they fix broken classes like MCH, WHM, DRK, etc... that need a face lift, my dude. Bunny bois can wait.

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The team that works on art is not the same team that works on class balance. All bunni bois and lionesses would mean is a slightly heavier workload on the art devs.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

What Mistake? They never promised male veira. That was a fan expectation.

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They way they handled the announcement and the hype, especially between Paris and Tokyo, was a mistake, and they have admitted this was. They should have said at the time Viera were announced that they were going to be female only instead of encouraging hype and speculation. This is something I think even if you didn't want male vieras in the game, you can see as a mistake when it comes to their PR

Though there are many who consider the omission of something people have been requesting and anticipating for over a decade as a mistake too.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Why male Vieras only in particular? Why not both genders of the two races?
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It's almost like people subconsciously want to admit that they know damn well they wouldn't want to be a female Hrothgar and are only interested in what they THINK Bunny Boi eye candy would be...

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Originally Posted by wereotter

They are perfectly capable of doing more than one thing at once... also the teams that would adjust numbers and gameplay of the jobs aren't the same people who would create new character models.

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I think we should take a look at what all goes into a new race and see what gets effected by having people work on it.

You need concept artist to go through the long design process for them.
You need the modelers+ texture artist and riggers to work on them.
You need the animators to bring them to life through all their base animations like race dance/ walking/ running/ jumping/ face animations and so on.
That's just the base, they also have to make all the past shared emotes and job skills and dances work for them. Same with the others. They have to go back and fix, adjust and bug test every gear in this game that the new races can wear to make sure it works right and looks right.
(I mean, they've been working on the Hrothgar and Viera for 2+ years and they're still not fully done with them, only recently getting them to states where they can see the light of day at fan events. )

Now, it's logical to assume that the people working on the new races aren't exclusive to that project. We know for example that the woman who designed the AF gear for ShB also worked on the Viera design.

So lets look at all the other things these modelers/ texture artist, riggers, concept artist and animators have to work on.

Enemies/ minions/ mounts. New enemies/ minions/ mounts are gonna need to be designed/ modeled/ textured/ rigged/ animated. This includes open world mobs to DNG trash to raids to bosses and so on.

Environments. The modelers, artist and texture artist have to work on the new settings. New dngs, raids, cities, zones and so on.

Gear. Someone's gotta design and model and bug test the future gear be it weapons or outfits. The way this game works the outfits have to be readjusted for every race to, so more races = increase in effort for this process for all future gear until they figure out how to get that up to date.

Jobs. Expansions = new jobs and new level caps with new skills to old jobs that need to be animated. Also new weapons = every weapon of that type from low level grabo starter stuff to Primal glow sticks need to be designed and modeled for a new job.

Cut scenes. Be them story or side quest or boss encounters someone's gotta animate that.
Hair. Someone's gotta design that and someone's gotta model/ texture it in and fit it to all heads.

So yeah, if they legit think that this number of races is all they can handle and still output content at the pace they currently are then I believe it's in our best interest to believe them. This game is an MMO, it's NEVER done until they give up on it. After 5.0 drops they will be working on stuff for the next patch and the next Mog Station item/ emote and the next primal and the next side quest and the next glam and at some point start thinking about the next Expansion.

There is a reason they say this is it for races with their current work flow.

If they spread themselves too thin us players can easily be hit in other places with more reused gear models and fewer goodies we like. Heck, just look back at this last valentines day rewards to be reminded of how lil effort they may put into something to make up for the resources being placed into other areas.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

I really rather they focus on gameplay though...

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if they are gonna work on "Gameplay" they need to seriously overhaul the combat and make it more like archage (p2w mess but combat was great fast and active). Also, they need to fix the open world gameplay and create more of an environment where you can get lost and explore (bdo). yoshi loves learning from other games but gw2 is old and wow is too. time to branch off and focus on "gameplay" and evolve as you suggested.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

One reason out of many as to why Yoshi P considers us whiners in the west lol.

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also because the whiners keep complaining about kh3 when the entire world praised the GAME. just cant please the obnoxiously loud vocal minority in the west lol. Glad we got real support from the quiet majority and the support from real fans from the east and the rest of the globe. Yoshi aint no fool

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

How about instead, we wait for Yoshi P and Koji Fox to address the masses about the possibility for the missing genders instead of all this stuff that will more then likely turn them off with how obsessed the west is with this topic?

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Eorzea is a virtual fantasy world where people enjoy creating their own idea and expression of a perfect character. Why place limitations on that? Why does anything in a virtual world need to be gender specific? It's simply a game meant for entertainment purposes. Eorzea is not reality and in my opinion should not be confused with outside influences from east, west, north or south. Those outside influences are the very thing we seek escape from when we game. So let us leave the outside world's crazed political hype and official narratives at the door and expand our imaginations in a different world which allows us the freedom to create rather than to tear down and destroy.

jesus christ.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Why male Vieras only in particular? Why not both genders of the two races?

And rather than making an in-game event, why not focus on the threads here that are asking for that? Since after all the uproar after live letter and news medias talking about this and players sharing those threads, only around 1600, out of all the players that knows about this topic, showed their support for one (with 1400 doing so in the first 5 days and the remaining 200 over a span of 4 weeks). And if you want to say that not everyone knows about the threads, then that's a reason why you'd be better off focusing on that. And if you're going to say not everyone uses the forums or cares about it, then that shows exactly that the issue isn't important enough for them to care about it to the point that they would bother checking the forums and show their support in an official way that SE can consider.

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I almost never come to the forum which you can probably see in my post history. I came onto the forum to seek information on a completely different topic and saw a lot of passionate comments on the subject so I left a suggestion. I'm not saying this to defend myself, mind you. I'm simply pointing out that perhaps if more people were informed and involved, we might have a better discussion about the real issue behind the people's disappointment with gender limitations.

In my opinion, when we create a character it is much like painting our own masterpiece but with a limited color palette. Granted there is a huge amount of work behind making every single one of the colors on that palette, I get that but I think this is where Square Enix has an opportunity to expand itself and make a virtual world unlike any other. Please keep in mind, this is only my personal opinion and I am but one single person but this is a topic which is very important to some people and although I am going to be able to create a female Viera and it makes me very happy that I will finally be able to do so, I have a heavy heart for the souls through out Eorzea who won't be able to experience the same joy. A lot of gamers don't bother with forums unless something of importance is brought to their attention.

I love the fact that you looked into the numbers and I greatly appreciate your contribution to the discussion. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by guardin

also because the whiners keep complaining about kh3 when the entire world praised the GAME. just cant please the obnoxiously loud vocal minority in the west lol. Glad we got real support from the quiet majority and the support from real fans from the east and the rest of the globe. Yoshi aint no fool

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I think perhaps you might be over looking the fact that they love the game enough to be paying to play it. There is no greater praise for Square Enix than the numbers in the grand scheme of things. People will always want to express themselves and their ideas, that's simply being human and thank God for it that we all have individual thoughts and ideas. I don't think you truly want a world virtual or otherwise in which everyone thinks and acts exactly the same. I know I surely do not. The movie I-Robot scares the hell out of me. We all love this game or we wouldn't be here and we wouldn't pay to play it.

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Originally Posted by milovan

jesus christ.

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super star ;)

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Originally Posted by Eloah

At this point it's more about admitting their mistake and offering an apology. Once some more info came out things calmed down some, though there is still a demand, people understood their reasons then. But the way they manipulated us, it's almost like they wanted the backlash. While Yoshi-P might not fully know the extent of the west's opinions, him understanding the Japanese side made him realize they need to release media differently.

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But they didn't make a mistake.

They had the resources to make one full race. (read: two new body types)

We could've had both Viera, and never had Hrothgar, or both Hrothgar, and never had Viera, because as adding races increases workload exponentially, there's very little scope for another race after this one, it would take too much work and they wouldn't consider it to be worth it.

By doing it this way, they've not only ticked the boxes for both races, providing us with more variety, but ignited demand and expectation for the missing genders. This has bolstered the mandate to add these genders in at a later date, making that extra workload more 'worth it', and therefore more likely that we'll end up with two complete Viera and Hrothgar races at some point in the future.

This is the best scenario of the available options for players. Their 'mistake' will only effect the dev team who will have to make another race in 6.0 or 7.0 to compensate for it.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

At this point it's more about admitting their mistake and offering an apology. Once some more info came out things calmed down some, though there is still a demand, people understood their reasons then. But the way they manipulated us, it's almost like they wanted the backlash. While Yoshi-P might not fully know the extent of the west's opinions, him understanding the Japanese side made him realize they need to release media differently.

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Manipulated?

They never once showed a male viera at any point over the fanfests, only female ones. They never promised that they were coming. Male viera had never appeared in any other game.... So when they didn't make them they "manipulated" people??? Why? Is it because people pre-ordered without waiting for more information? No one made anyone pre-order.

I just can't comprehend the leaps of logic to assign blame to someone for your own misplaced expectations. If they haven't promised it, you should probably temper your expectations. I would honestly apply this to any entertainment product you might be excited for in the future as well.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Manipulated?

They never once showed a male viera at any point over the fanfests, only female ones. They never promised that they were coming. Male viera had never appeared in any other game.... So when they didn't make them they "manipulated" people???

I just can't comprehend the leaps of logic to assign blame to someone for your own misplaced expectations. If they haven't promised it, you should probably temper your expectations. I would honestly apply this to any entertainment you might be excited for in the future as well.

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It's standard fare around here. Blame the developers for ulterior motives and bias cause it's easier to do that than accept the reasoning they gave for their choices. The degree of entitlement here is strong. It's one thing to ask for the additional races but entirely another to try and assign some evil motives to the developers who work very hard giving us what we get.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Manipulated?

They never once showed a male viera at any point over the fanfests, only female ones. They never promised that they were coming. Male viera had never appeared in any other game.... So when they didn't make them they "manipulated" people??? Why? Is it because people pre-ordered without waiting for more information? No one made anyone pre-order.

I just can't comprehend the leaps of logic to assign blame to someone for your own misplaced expectations. If they haven't promised it, you should probably temper your expectations. I would honestly apply this to any entertainment product you might be excited for in the future as well.

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While "manipulated" is probably too strong a word, they definitely strung people along about the possibility of male Viera for too long.

I would say the closest to actual manipulation (or at least cruel teasing) was the reveal of Viera themselves - specifically, starting out with the joke "Viangaa" race that, however unseriously, shows the males and females of a race. I feel like at this point they should have been aware of the anticipation for what male Viera would be like, and when they showed that slide I was certain it was a fleeting joke to mess with those high anticipations, and the next slide would be the real reveal of the race. Which of course it was, but only the females, and they seemed to deliberately avoid mentioning male Viera again.

And in interviews from that same time, when specifically asked if male Viera were coming, they just said "wait for Tokyo Fanfest!" - which meant a lot of people were holding out hope for a lot longer than they should have, and all their rage at the final confirmation of "no male Viera" happened right at the point where SE really wanted people to be excited about this other new race they were showing off.


It could have been handled so much more tactfully. Simply admitting at Paris Fanfest that there would be no playable male Viera, and "please look forward to Tokyo where we will reveal a second new race", would have defused so much of the anger - or at least let the fandom get over the brunt of it long before Tokyo, and be ready to appreciate the new race rather than reacting to what it wasn't.

OP, you do realize that Yoshi P already mentioned the level of difficulty it would be to unlock the gendered locked races considering how many assets they have in the game already right? You also realize that Yoshi P said that he and his team will consider unlocking these gender locked races once development becomes tame after the 5.0 launch right?

It doesn't matter how many complain, the answer is still the same. 5.0 will contain gender locked races and no amount of complaining can change this. They already have plans to consider changing this but given the short amount of development time they had for 5.0, they couldn't do it. There is also the fact that most people don't care, they would rather see more content than unlocked classes and to that, I agree. There are so many other issues they should address, you're at least getting a new male and female race to pick from if you really want it. If they hadn't released them, you wouldn't complain and played just fine.

This is a Japanese game first and foremost, western audiences come second. This is a western "issue", not a eastern one. But I'd like to think of it as a non-issue since it's really not important, unlike specific gameplay mechanics that need to be fixed. You might argue that they have different teams and can do it, so then you would rather they stop releasing new armor / glam for some time then? I wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

While "manipulated" is probably too strong a word, they definitely strung people along about the possibility of male Viera for too long.

I would say the closest to actual manipulation (or at least cruel teasing) was the reveal of Viera themselves - specifically, starting out with the joke "Viangaa" race that, however unseriously, shows the males and females of a race. I feel like at this point they should have been aware of the anticipation for what male Viera would be like, and when they showed that slide I was certain it was a fleeting joke to mess with those high anticipations, and the next slide would be the real reveal of the race. Which of course it was, but only the females, and they seemed to deliberately avoid mentioning male Viera again.

And in interviews from that same time, when specifically asked if male Viera were coming, they just said "wait for Tokyo Fanfest!" - which meant a lot of people were holding out hope for a lot longer than they should have, and all their rage at the final confirmation of "no male Viera" happened right at the point where SE really wanted people to be excited about this other new race they were showing off.


It could have been handled so much more tactfully. Simply admitting at Paris Fanfest that there would be no playable male Viera, and "please look forward to Tokyo where we will reveal a second new race", would have defused so much of the anger - or at least let the fandom get over the brunt of it long before Tokyo, and be ready to appreciate the new race rather than reacting to what it wasn't.

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The problem is that they didn't want to give away the reveal of a second race before Tokyo.
Confirming that there were no male Viera in Paris would've caused even more backlash, or just given away the fact that a second race was coming.
Unfortunately that was leaked anyway, but they couldn't have anticipated that.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The problem is that they didn't want to give away the reveal of a second race before Tokyo.
Confirming that there were no male Viera in Paris would've caused even more backlash, or just given away the fact that a second race was coming.
Unfortunately that was leaked anyway, but they couldn't have anticipated that.

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I just don't think keeping the "secret" of a second race was worth the backlash.

It would have been a much better strategy to say that a second race was coming, while not revealing any details about it - sometime between Paris and Tokyo, if not immediately at Paris. That would still build hype and interest about exactly what would be revealed, while letting people get through the disappointment over male Viera during the "downtime" between Fanfests rather than right when they were supposed to be excited about the new reveal.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I just don't think keeping the "secret" of a second race was worth the backlash.

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There would have been a backlash regardless. It's pretty simple they wanted to keep the additional race as a surprise for their reveal in Tokyo. They made the decision to make the races the way they did and for many of us they made a good choice given they didn't have the resources for two complete races. The "there should have had male viera threads" would have simply started a lot sooner.

It remains to be seen if they find the resources and make the decision to make the missing genders for 6.0.

I plan on making viera when the game launches and literally naming it male viera