Why can't they just coexist?
The Party crowd says:
Its an MMO, thats a social experience....
The entire point of playing an online game is to play with others.
Otherwise just play an offline RPG
The Solo crowd says:
It can be no fun waiting for a party that may not ever happen
In a pickup group you will, inevitably, be grouped with bad players from time to time
With that being said...
I'd like to share with you the reason I started playing this game... And also the reason I continue to play
I've never played an MMO before this one... I didn't know anything about party dynamics... tanks... healers... DD.... I didn't know any of it. I didn't realize there was this huge social aspect to it.. I didn't expect to need to use my mic and get on voice chat. I didn't know what teamspeak/ventrillo was. I thought voice chat was only for FPSers to talk shit to each other
However, I played EVERY offline RPG I could. With SE being far-and-away the best in my book... Chrono trigger, FF series, Mana (Seiken Densetsu) series.
FFXI came and I was still teasing my friends for playing Everquest... I wasn't ready to MMO....
But then something happened... A small light went on inside me.
I'd play a game... get to level 99 with everyone... get the best weapons... and at that point you have less than a day of content in the game....
Getting to 99 and getting the weapons was it.
In an offline RPG, The Journey is the Game.
That's when the small light grew..
I didn't want to say goodbye to these characters... I wanted more adventurers with Lvl 99 Cloud... More Renzokukens with Lvl 100 Squall... More trance time Monkey antics with Lvl 99 Zidane... I didn't want to say goodbye to Edger and Locke, or Chrono.. or the Cecil or the illustrious white Knight. hell, even the Secret of Mana sprite grew on me by the end
And thats when I knew what I must do... Play an MMO... where getting to the highest level is just the beginning. the good times really can go on forever. You don't level this character only to say goodbye in a few weeks.
But by then, FFXI was several expansions in... and I felt like an outsider. So I started scoping new MMOs to try... the straight medieval theme never really gabbed me.. I just loved how SE was always able to mix medieval, fantasy, steam punk, futuristic, Egyptian-Greek-mayan-Asian-Persian mythology all in one game...
then I heard rumors of FFXIV... And I was like "I wont miss out on this one"
so here I am....
I logged in.. met people.. started voice chatting.. learned about parties
Although its not the reason I started playing... The social aspect, party play and the friends I've made are the main reason I've kept playing for so long
So where does that leave us?
The happy compromise is there... i can see it
In terms of leveling....
EXP parties netting you 25k an hour at best
solo grinding netting you 10k an hour at best
If power leveling exists, it should fall between these 2, more EXP than solo but not as much as a party....
As far as content
For parties:
Dungeons... thats a VERY party oriented thing.
Primals are also made for parties
Most new content should be party based. Hopefully the Job quests require at least a light party (4 people)
Solo content:
Company leves
Crafting/gathering (Although I would love to see some group crafting/gathering implemented in the future)
A monster Arena, similar to FFX but geared towards a solo challenge. Many of my friends loved the challenge of soloing and low manning NMs early on, and even in FFXI. Most of that was due to broken classes. Now that there is a lot less OP in the world, this would be a great thing for players with not as much time on a particular day to try
Imagine NMs made specifically for soloing. because thats what they are made for, and because its in a controlled arena, it doesn't have to break game balance at all.
Also SE can make it as difficult or easy as they want, and vary the different bosses so that a class might be better suited for some but not for others. I don't know what the rewards could be? But even the party heavy players would be interested in this from time to time. Its a cool thing to do while waiting for that party to form too
Solo vs Party
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03-05-2012, 04:02 AMRydinSolo vs Party
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03-05-2012, 04:11 AMXoo
As far as your Solo Crowd comment:
A. Don't expect what you want when you want it if all you do is sit around with your flag up.
B. If you can't commit to a particular Linkshell's event schedules, then you get the convenience of doing what you want when you can afford the time in trade for the occasional bad apples. I look at it more as a good way to meet new players. -
03-05-2012, 04:12 AMRaistlinSo dont play MMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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03-05-2012, 04:13 AMRydinI wasn't really trying to debate the two as much as show how they really aren't opposing viewpointsQuote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
SE can definitely make solo AND party content. they should just each have their place -
03-05-2012, 04:15 AMRydinI feel like maybe you missed the spirit of my entire postQuote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
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03-05-2012, 04:33 AMXelsiar
They can and do coexist. But each side will say they don't have enough content, and either fine the silver lining between the two, or ultimately quit. From there, they'll either stay solo and be distant, and be deeply embedded in LS play.
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03-05-2012, 04:37 AMRydinthats true... no matter how much content we have for each.. both will say its not enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Xelsiar
like 2 siblings fighting because each one feels like the other got the biggest piece of cake
But I feel like solo vs hardcore is like Republican vs democrat (Will I regret making this analogy... probably) in that most people are in the middle... I'd love end game party content AND a solo challenge arena... Most people I've talked to about it (Which obviously isn't directly representative of the entire community) seem like they'd enjoy both sides of it as well
Really though... how many people are Just solo or Just party players? -
03-05-2012, 04:57 AMJinko
I like the way FFXIV does it at the moment.
Solo is easy enough to do if you want to, party is the fastest option, end game should always be centred around party IMO.
Oddly enough the main end game we have right now is Materia melding and that's a solo activity, I really don't like it. -
03-05-2012, 05:00 AMRydinI like that....Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
what do you think about a solo challenge monster arena? -
03-05-2012, 05:20 AMShiki_Lockhart
The Solo crowd says:
It can be no fun waiting for a party that may not ever happen
If people learnt to use the fucking search function they added and updated their status as looking for party or even searching in party to join with a click no. What they do? Shout like morons in Ul'dah when search can be applied to the whole world and join.
Until people learn to use and use that will be much easier to find parties. Also this applies to people trying to make parties and are party players.
Also,
The Solo crowd says:
In a pickup group you will, inevitably, be grouped with bad players from time to time
It can happen, and is true but you can also met good players and even make new friends or even better... start a LS with them or join the party group LS you joined.
There is so many factors to help you to met new friends or join LS. Those soloists just don't do that. That's too bad.
Now don't cry over those stuff if you, on purpose or unconsciously , avoid parties or other players. -
03-05-2012, 05:30 AMZumi
Started an LS with a group of people from FFXI When FFXIV came out had about 35 people at launch. Currently all but 2-3 of those people quit and there is rarely anyone one on the LS at the same time.
Which leads to me having to solo pretty much everything. I soloed Gladiator up to 50 because there was really nobody to play with. There in lies the problem with FFXIV. You can't really force group content on people when there are so few people to play with or get things done with. Forming an exp party is incredibly hard if you don't have a set group of players to play with.
After the first month or so of FFXIV most people I knew quit. That is the problem with FFXIV lack of players to do forced group content. I am hoping the new job quests are soloable or I won't be able to do them. -
03-05-2012, 05:32 AMWolfie
I think more often than not, the solo crowd isn't a "solo" crowd and they don't hate on multi player content, or they wouldn't be playing the game at all.
It's more of an issue of not wanting to wait and/or search 30m+ to put together a group to get something done. Or, if the content is really unpopular like Shposhae, several days. That's why content finders, auto-grouping, and matchmaking features are so popular in games today, because it lets someone do something productive and fun while waiting for a group. -
03-05-2012, 05:33 AMmbncd
I've done some party play but I'm mainly a soloist. Some people really believe that the social aspect is all that exists in a game with a social aspect to it, but I play this game for the same reason I've played all the others (story, NPC characters, exploration and a sense of achievement) as much as (if not more so than) I do for the social aspects.
There are many players here with different things that they do and don't appreciate. One group disrespecting another for that difference in personal opinion and style of play (both of which hurting no one), in a world where such differences should be embraced, is akin to forcing their own views on everyone to make them into unthinking clones who can only travel the currently popular set path. That sounds incredibly boring o.o Everyone looking/speaking/thinking/acting the same, no sense of achievement as everyone else will do or have done the exact same thing in the exact same way, no sense of wonder, just robotic key presses as we follow the script, etc. We may as well just read a book instead for all the interactivity and exploration and experimentation that that promotes... I prefer to stumble along my own (probably messy and unrefined but definitely fun) path rather than trying to match other people's styles of play.
As for the concept of a monster arena, I think that would be fun for both soloists and party goers alike. There's no reason the challenges couldn't be based around party size (a party of one is still a party) so there are more to fight in a big party while keeping the difficulty level of a solo challenge solo appropriate, much like the current linking system. -
03-05-2012, 05:38 AMXooGod, if this isn't the truth emboldened. I was with a leader the other day who couldn't seem to find members, and I asked him, "Did you put up recruit?", "Did you search?", "Did you ask your LS?" to which I got a negative on all counts. It's amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart
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03-05-2012, 05:49 AMShiki_Lockhart
LOL Xoo /comfort
Well, if that part leader was hoping for the party made itself without asking no one then he could wait a week to have something done >_<
That sums, people just don't use search function and don't update their status when are looking for party or to do something.
If they have a LS or multiple LS then is easier to find people and do something without having to use the search. -
03-05-2012, 05:57 AMXoo
I just got out of another thread trying to explain the negative effects of player laziness and their endless capacity to blame someone else because they couldn't be bothered to investigate for themselves. Not to brag, but I can build a party just about any old time of the day, for many reasons. I have a small collection of Linkshells, almost capped on my friend list, am quite familiar with the search/party functions and translator. All of this amounts to resourcefulness. Another key attribute is persistence - of which I have so much that I send tells to random people and ask them if they'd like to join whatever event I'm doing atm. You'd be surprised how many accept if you know how to ask them politely.
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03-05-2012, 06:06 AMRydintrue.... but would having solo content (that you aren't forced to do) diminish your game experience? As much as I love partying... I also love compromise so SE can make a game that almost everyone can enjoyQuote:
Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart
I would imagine SE hopes this isn't a long term problem. With the server merge and then 2.0 (Hopefully bringing in way more people), SE has to be hoping that populations increase to where "Finding people to party with" is no longer an issueQuote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
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03-05-2012, 06:07 AMJinkoAmen to that, I'm convinced that people still don't even know it exists (or are looking in the party menu), in fact a few people I have told about it have said wow I never knew that was there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
Doink.