Healers seriously need a nerf in PvP

It's really putting off playing PvP when a healer is practically invincible unless you have 4-5 people locking them down...

WHM was already nerfed.

I'll just copy and paste what I said the last time this was up. Hopefully some folks read it and can figure out how to deal with healers.


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If you blindly mash buttons against a healer, especially solo, you're not going to have a good time. At that point it's a good idea to do some research about how to play jobs properly and how they interact with each other.

If you're on a job with proper CC, you can solo a healer if you catch them off guard.

Realistically though, if one person could solo a healer we would have much less healers running around. Are YOU going to heal when a DPS can look at you and melt you? Doubt it. It's already hard enough as is to get randoms to go healer, yet everyone seems to think they're OP. Seems like a disconnect here.

To everyone who thinks healers are OP: go healer for a few games. You will quickly learn how to properly go against one, and you will quickly realize that healers are from from OP.

In order to CONSISTENTLY kill healers, CC must be utilized properly and DPS/Tanks need to focus the same target. Try this macro out.

/p "Attacking Marked Target on 1"<wait.1>
/mk attack1
/mk attack5 <t> <wait.1>
/mk attack4 <attack5> <wait.1>
/mk attack3 <attack4> <wait.1>
/mk attack2 <attack3> <wait.1>
/mk attack1 <attack2> <wait.1>

Again, if healers could be melted instantly by anyone, even those who don't understand the basics, no one will play healer.

As it is it stands now it will take:
-1 skilled DPS with CC to kill an inexperienced healer
- multiple (2DPS and a tank or so) experienced folks to take out a experienced healer
- multiple inexperienced DPS to take out an inexperienced healer.

That's heavily simplified but gives an idea of balance around healer.

Remember that healers don't have AoE healing. Yeah, there are things like Assize and Synastry, but most healers will panic if lots of people are dropping. A tactic I like to do is slowly chip away at a healer, keep them high enough that they feel safe to heal other people. When the healer is at about 20% HP do your burst. This is as a SOLO player. With the macro above you will get at least one other person bursting with you which should lead to a kill.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Rox

-no one will play healer.

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Wanna bet?

Healers have already been nerfed with the 4.0 changes.
You can literally just spam buttons with some jobs which can deal a pretty good amount of damage. It's so easy to burst with the few buttons we currently have; it's just that you have to time it with others' bursts.

they were kinda ,when everyone was a brd or a mch ,now that melee are the new stupidly broken class, they cant take advantage of los as much as before again hordes of sam war and such.

and we are not even start talking about melee with battle high\fever and their lb or just a nja.

so switch or learn how to play a melee or a tank i guess.

ciao.

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Originally Posted by Beer_Wolf

It's really putting off playing PvP when a healer is practically invincible unless you have 4-5 people locking them down...

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You may find people telling you to focus healer on the Frontline. They are veteran wannabe and often mislead new players to Frontline. Post 4.5, you need to focus range instead and only switch to healer after you saw they used damage reduction CD on the range. This is not only greatly reduce his range’s damage outpu and also wasted tanks and healers CD

Buff AST and SCH. Healers have been nerfed enough already :/

If you are in Frontline or Rival Wings, go as a melee DPS or Tank. Since 4.5, they deal more damage than ranged/casters. Use crowd control as well. It’s quite possible to solo a healer as a Ninja.

Healers do indeed need to be nerfed, I've said it countless times but I'll repeat it here:

Healing should delay death, not prevent it.

Also yes, every class should be able to take out a healer 1v1 *eventually* and what I mean by that is NOT that a dps should be able to kill a healer in one damage rotation which only idiots claim I'm advocating for. Instead, I'm saying that any one 1v1 against a healer should be able to kill them *eventually.* Now what is a reasonable time frame for that? I honestly don't know, but "never" is not a reasonable amount of time. Not only that, but killing a healer 1v1 should be possible even in the absence of CC (stuns, silences, etc.)

Secondly, there should be a one healer limit on teams in PVP. Matches where no one ever dies because both teams have 2-3 healers nearby cross healing each other and every one else isn't fun.

Healing is balanced around Feast which is 4v4 with tank, melee, healer and ranged. Healers are now at the weakest point they have ever been since I started in season 7 over a year ago. They die very easily in Feast if they are not helped so in Frontlines against players who know what they are doing they die under a second if they are focused. If you make so that every 1 player can just "tunnel" down a healer then there is pretty much no reason to play a job that has nothing else to do but die because major of the players in Frontlines play dps anyways.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

If you make so that every 1 player can just "tunnel" down a healer then there is pretty much no reason to play a job that has nothing else to do but die because major of the players in Frontlines play dps anyways.

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If a healer is caught by themselves with no support then they should die.

A group with a healer even if they were toned down would still have better staying power than a group that doesn't have them. They could very easily apply a healing debuff in frontlines (that stacks with other ones like the drk debuff) OR make heals weaker in frontlines in general.

Also, I know this is another unpopular opinion but I'll say it anyway: PVP would be better without healing.

People need to realise that PvP is balanced around Feast, as it should be. PvP is balanced around the idea of you need to sync your largest hitting combo as both DPS (i.e. burst) along with appropriate CC from either a DPS or Tank. SE even gives you, the player, a method to easily communicate this to your teammates.

I'm going to make a pretty bold and very harsh claim, but if you do not participate in high level Feast games then you should not be commenting on PvP balance in this game.

Healers die WAY too easily in both Feast and Frontlines, if you are really struggling to kill them off.. that's a you and your team problem. I'm sorry that button mashing your keyboard didn't get you anywhere. Maybe try Guild Wars 2? There's no healers there.

Healers need a severe buff, not a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

[B]PVP would be better without healing.

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no, it wouldnt.

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Originally Posted by Sigvarr_Ulfbeard

no, it wouldnt.

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honestly i think it would be and i play healers ^_^ a fight should be to the death without extra help so no healing no items etc would be better in my eyes

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

It’s quite possible to solo a healer as a Ninja.

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I can't tell you how many times I used my hide ability and walked around picking off healers as NIN with a full LB bar. And with the skills to silence and stun the healer + extra DPS and ending them with a LB (while they're riding by on a chocobo) is absolutely amazing. All my kills. xD

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

honestly i think it would be and i play healers ^_^ a fight should be to the death without extra help so no healing no items etc would be better in my eyes

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i really hope this is an attempt to troll, people wont like pvp in this game anymore if they're killed everytime they go into a fight to then wait for respawns and the time it takes to get back to the fight, stupid idea tbh.

If a group of 4-5 of you can't kill a single healer, you're the issue.

Sure, you'll have a harder time killing experienced healers, but why do they deserve to be nerfed again because you can't read up your skills properly to figure out how to cc/burst them down? If a healer is good enough to heal themselves through 4/5 people with all the nerfs, they deserve to live as they are playing well and using their entire kit efficiently.

Stop whining, go and practice your dmg rotations.

How about we remove healers, and also remove weapons so we have to search for them in the beginning of the match.
I feel like that way everyone has a chance to win!

I'm 100% agree to disagree. Healing is like the core gameplay. Just thinking about it. Without healing you will die even more!

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Originally Posted by -Sen

How about we remove healers, and also remove weapons so we have to search for them in the beginning of the match.
I feel like that way everyone has a chance to win!

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Basically PUBG ?? But I want play minecraft, because it's easier!

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Originally Posted by Milkjds

Basically PUBG ?? But I want play minecraft, because it's easier!

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Maybe add some crafting with it too so its like PUBG + Minecraft? :-)

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Originally Posted by Beer_Wolf

It's really putting off playing PvP when a healer is practically invincible unless you have 4-5 people locking them down...

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This is the same thing said in EVERY MMO Healers too powerful nerf em.

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Originally Posted by Sigvarr_Ulfbeard

i really hope this is an attempt to troll, people wont like pvp in this game anymore if they're killed everytime they go into a fight to then wait for respawns and the time it takes to get back to the fight, stupid idea tbh.

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um plenty of games have great pvp without ppl healing lol maybe do research before you speak calling something stupid lol..


second i avoid pvp in both wow and xiv as often as i can y well two reasons

1. its not about skill on a individual its about lame teamwork bs

2. hiding behind others to win is cowardness and not true combat


and for ffxiv pvp isn't as aggressive as it should be it has this friendly rainbow lameness about it

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

This is the same thing said in EVERY MMO Healers too powerful nerf em.

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Yeah healers need to be nerfed that's why why they get shit on by two dps in high level feast. :-)
Maybe just git gud would be a start, nobody cares about your snowflake problems when you're not even properly trying.

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

um plenty of games have great pvp without ppl healing lol maybe do research before you speak calling something stupid lol..


second i avoid pvp in both wow and xiv as often as i can y well two reasons

1. its not about skill on a individual its about lame teamwork bs

2. hiding behind others to win is cowardness and not true combat


and for ffxiv pvp isn't as aggressive as it should be it has this friendly rainbow lameness about it

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Go play Fortnite, you're in the wrong genre.

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Originally Posted by -Sen

Go play Fortnite, you're in the wrong genre.

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lol no roleplaying game also shooter games are trash but mmos make pvp incorrectly because ppl lack the ability to do anything alone any more

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

lol no roleplaying game also shooter games are trash but mmos make pvp incorrectly because ppl lack the ability to do anything alone any more

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Play a random Koreangrinder then you have no healers in PvP.
I feel like im talking to a manchild tbh..

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Originally Posted by -Sen

Yeah healers need to be nerfed that's why why they get shit on by two dps in high level feast. :-)
Maybe just git gud would be a start, nobody cares about your snowflake problems when you're not even properly trying.

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Well not so much my words but yeah basic point is Healers are fine leave them alone.

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

um plenty of games have great pvp without ppl healing lol maybe do research before you speak calling something stupid lol..


second i avoid pvp in both wow and xiv as often as i can y well two reasons

1. its not about skill on a individual its about lame teamwork bs

2. hiding behind others to win is cowardness and not true combat


and for ffxiv pvp isn't as aggressive as it should be it has this friendly rainbow lameness about it

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Ah, so you just wanna 1v1 duel people then? :D

For real though, people who say they don't play the mode shouldn't be complaining here. It's plenty aggressive, you evidently haven't tried it properly yet. Further to that, if you don't like "lame teamwork bs", why are you even playing an mmo? Just go play a battle royale game or something smh.

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Originally Posted by -Sen

Play a random Koreangrinder then you have no healers in PvP.
I feel like im talking to a manchild tbh..

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lol a i just said heals are bad for pvps entertainment

2 i am a healer
3 or i could just avoid the trash pvp system like i already do lol

and 4. lol if anyone is the child its you thinking you are good at a pvp just because your scared to have a real combat system

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

um plenty of games have great pvp without ppl healing lol maybe do research before you speak calling something stupid lol..


second i avoid pvp in both wow and xiv as often as i can y well two reasons

1. its not about skill on a individual its about lame teamwork bs

2. hiding behind others to win is cowardness and not true combat


and for ffxiv pvp isn't as aggressive as it should be it has this friendly rainbow lameness about it

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okay name them?

thats generally the point of team based pvp, to work as a team as with other games with great pvp.

you've admitted you dont take part in it but try to offer advice on balance? yeah i have a right to call you stupid here with your arguments, you dont know what you're talking about, end of.

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

3 or i could just avoid the trash pvp system like i already do lol

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Then do it, get out of here and let people play the game in peace.
Sure PvP has many flaws but healers being too strong isn't one of them, its quite obvious you barely played PvP.

Can someone post the whm dps rotation please? I can't wait to hit the Ice.

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Originally Posted by Milkjds

Can someone post the whm dps rotation please? I can't wait to hit the Ice.

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Assize;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Assize;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;

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Originally Posted by -Sen

Assize;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Assize;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;Stone3;

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No please, thats too hard for me.

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Originally Posted by Feves

People need to realise that PvP is balanced around Feast, as it should be. PvP is balanced around the idea of you need to sync your largest hitting combo as both DPS (i.e. burst) along with appropriate CC from either a DPS or Tank. SE even gives you, the player, a method to easily communicate this to your teammates.

I'm going to make a pretty bold and very harsh claim, but if you do not participate in high level Feast games then you should not be commenting on PvP balance in this game.

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lol, indeed balance everything around feast and its couple of dozens of players its really helping the pvp scene of this game xD.

ciao ciao

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Originally Posted by legione

lol, indeed balance everything around feast and its couple of dozens of players its really helping the pvp scene of this game xD.

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"couple of dozens", multiple leaderboards of 100 players + who knows how many who don't place top 100. Meanwhile Frontlines barely manages 72 players and Rival Wings is probably wasted developer resources at this point, given it'll never pop post-split.

Strange how we also see numerous player driven and developer driven events for Feast, yet straight up nothing for Frontlines or Rival Wings... OK Rival Wings has a discord aimed at simply getting it to pop, but Feast has the FRC, Chaos Showdown, Chaos Cup, Aether League, a World Cup? Probably more, I don't really keep up. Simply put, the Feast community seems much more tightly knit and willing to work together to enjoy the mode.

But yeah. Feast is the unpopular mode they shouldn't balance around. Perhaps if you want similar attention for Frontlines, you should mobilize the community as much as the Feast community has? IDK though, still seems kinda weird to me to balance around a casual large scale PvP mode instead of the competitive mode... That'd be like balancing PvE around FATEs instead of raids...

Now, what I think they should do, is simply adjust Frontlines. You don't need to balance Jobs around Frontlines, you just need to add something extra to it to help balance it out. Like what they've already done by adjusting melee/tank damage/damage taken. Ever since 4.0, I've figured Duty Actions could be implemented into PvP in some form, Eureka and Logos actions only helps solidify that concept IMO.

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Originally Posted by legione

lol, indeed balance everything around feast and its couple of dozens of players its really helping the pvp scene of this game xD.

ciao ciao

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Why not balance everything around Feast? The mode that actually takes some skill/proper team play instead of People in Frontlines who zerg with 4 bards but hold their burst until someone is low so they can kill steal and think they are some MLG pros? Such skilful game play, I am in awe. I've seen some self-proclaimed "Pro PvPers" in Frontlines do exactly this, act like they are the biggest thing since sliced bread and then have Youtube accounts dedicated to shaming other Frontline players specifically. Lovely community btw.

Frontlines can have any balance it wants but people are still going to run BRD/MCH over a melee/tank. Because it's easy and brainless.

Let's just remove healers from the game entirely. We get the most hate from everyone in the game anyway, plus the devs themselves. All I ever hear is people complaining about healers, wanting us nerfed and on top of that, we get no new job in 6 years and 4 years of excuses about devs wanting to "work on balance."

No one wants to heal in PVP anyway and when someone reluctantly switches they get focused down first by any team with half a brain.