More 8 man dungeons?

Pretty much as the topic says. There seems to be a huge desire for 8 man dungeons that are not raids. Something similar to the main story roulette but not a main story dungeon with long cutscenes if you know what i mean.
Is there a reason for this not being a thing yet?
It gives us the chance to help more people and take along more people from our FCs/friendslist/LS so more people can get xp and do things together.

EDIT: Just to clarify since people are jumping to conclusions really fast, NO ONE WANTS LONG CUTSCNES THAT ARE UNSKIPPABLE. A cutscene in the beginning when you enter and one after the final boss is all thats needed.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

Pretty much as the topic says. There seems to be a huge desire for 8 man dungeons that are not raids. Something similar to the main story roulette but not a main story dungeon with long cutscenes if you know what i mean.
Is there a reason for this not being a thing yet?
It gives us the chance to help more people and take along more people from our FCs/friendslist/LS so more people can get xp and do things together.

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Please cite your sources.

Personally, I have no desire to see more 8 man dungeons.

"huge desire". Don't know why people say stuff like this without proof. I don't know of anyone when this topic is brought up who actually cares for 8 man dungeons. 4 is just fine.

I have seen a lot of requests over the years...more 8 man dungeons hasn't been one of them. And with good reason.

Proof?

Also, even if they don't have cutscenes, they would need to be longer enough to justify having 8 people on them, and also, why you want to deal with 7 people if you can do just fine with 3? This just means having more resources wasted in development and the stress of dealing with more bad players at once. In the same time an 8man dungeon gets done, you can do Expert and 70 just fine.

No.

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I've come across many people that wants dungeons to be more 8 man. You can bring more people with you and you can do stuff in bigger groups. It does create a bigger social aspect and a bigger mass can get to enjoy things together. We are mashing buttons right now through the regular dungeons, it's not like that they are hard in the first place. 4 man dungeons are tiresome and most people don't even want to bare redo roulettes after the daily reward is given so why not figure out different ways to appeal to the mass?

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

I've come across many people that wants dungeons to be more 8 man. You can bring more people with you and you can do stuff in bigger groups. It does create a bigger social aspect and a bigger mass can get to enjoy things together. We are mashing buttons right now through the regular dungeons, it's not like that they are hard in the first place. 4 man dungeons are tiresome and most people don't even want to bare redo roulettes after the daily reward is given so why not figure out different ways to appeal to the mass?

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so you are saying, some people want more 8 man dungeons

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

I've come across many people that wants dungeons to be more 8 man. You can bring more people with you and you can do stuff in bigger groups. It does create a bigger social aspect and a bigger mass can get to enjoy things together. We are mashing buttons right now through the regular dungeons, it's not like that they are hard in the first place. 4 man dungeons are tiresome and most people don't even want to bare redo roulettes after the daily reward is given so why not figure out different ways to appeal to the mass?

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How does adding 4 more people suddenly make dungeons more interesting? The 2 we had certainly weren't much different than 4 man dungeons back in ARR aside from maybe 1 or 2 gimmicks.

Que time for 4 man are like 15-20 min time for 8 be something like 40 or more even for tank and healer day I say big no to this

Right now most people don't redo things after their dailys , so why not encourage people to play different? I understand that the que time for dps is horrible but surely dungeons can be added so you can only go in with people from your server that gives a tad more xp than regular dungeons as motivation for gameplay?

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

4 man dungeons are tiresome and most people don't even want to bare redo roulettes after the daily reward is given so why not figure out different ways to appeal to the mass?

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Why would 8 man dungeons be any different?

Like, the reason that 4 man dungeons are tiresome, is they have to be designed for the lowest common denominator. So that even horribad players with gear that is 20 levels lower than them and only using 1/3rd of their available skills can still get through them.

If they made 8 man dungeons... They'd be the same. Only with now longer queue times to boot (Since you'd be looking for 2x Tanks and 2x Healers). Unless they separated these dungeons away from things like the MSQ and made them side content. But at that point... They're just raids.

I could potentially see some more 8 man side content, such as 8 man variation on PotD/HoH style "Any comp goes" type thing, which would be an interesting dynamic if done right (Though getting the right balance so that things don't take forever to kill if you get a bunch of healers + tanks as well as not being so tough as to make mass DPS parties struggle to get through...)

But "8 man dungeons" is held up by the same designs that makes 4 man content bad and would make Trials tedious if they weren't just a single boss only.

The more fulfilling 8 man content... Is raids. Or well, it would be, if they weren't being designed more like Trials these days... (Which has some people asking for Raids to feel more like 8 man "Dungeons" rather than just Trials)

Okay, 8 man dungeon doesn't mean Castrum Meridianum or The Praetorium. Those were story based and very very cutscene intense to say the least. Flush those concepts of Full party dungeons down the toilet.

Honestly, the cons I hear only not wanting to play well with others. The pros are more complex dungeon mechanics like different branching paths and boss fights that require multiple objectives. I would say something akin to the Labyrinth of the Ancients. That would be a Real Expert DF Roulette. As far as the Raids debate, are they raids or just Trials with another name? Compare a Dungeon to Deltascape V1.0 and you should be able to tell the difference.

I want more 8 men dungeons. Sign me up!

I want some more too

If they were done well I wouldn't have a problem with more of them.

I'd be down for it, but yeah, they need to both eliminate the cutscenes and make your 2nd tanks/healers actually matter or else I imagine it facing a lot of the same problems that CM/Prae do.

One positive is to give a more raid-like content to 8-man duties that is also not meant to be hardcore content necessarily, especially in comparison to the more trial-like setting of the Omega raid, although the difficulty should definitely be higher than regular dungeons and much higher than both of the current 8-man dungeons (maybe around or easier than extreme trials), with no cutscenes during the dungeon except the usual short boss intros.

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Originally Posted by Physic

so you are saying, some people want more 8 man dungeons

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I'd like more.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

Pretty much as the topic says. There seems to be a huge desire for 8 man dungeons that are not raids. Something similar to the main story roulette but not a main story dungeon with long cutscenes if you know what i mean.
Is there a reason for this not being a thing yet?
It gives us the chance to help more people and take along more people from our FCs/friendslist/LS so more people can get xp and do things together.

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Do we REALLY want MORE unskippable cutscene dungeons like Praetorium and Castrum Meridianum? Um... no. I'd rather cut my foot off completely with a butter knife than have a second set of dungeons that are 8 man. 8 man dungeons literally ruined wanting to do that content again. This would make me avoid doing dungeons after the first initial time (because LOLIMNEWTOTHEGAMEANDNEEDTOWATCHALLTHECUTSCENESBUTPLAYERSARERUININGITFORMEINGAMEQQ)

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Originally Posted by Katro

Que time for 4 man are like 15-20 min time for 8 be something like 40 or more even for tank and healer day I say big no to this

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Because it takes so long to queue for primals.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Do we REALLY want MORE unskippable cutscene dungeons like Praetorium and Castrum Meridianum? Um... no. I'd rather cut my foot off completely with a butter knife than have a second set of dungeons that are 8 man. 8 man dungeons literally ruined wanting to do that content again. This would make me avoid doing dungeons after the first initial time (because LOLIMNEWTOTHEGAMEANDNEEDTOWATCHALLTHECUTSCENESBUTPLAYERSARERUININGITFORMEINGAMEQQ)

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8 man dungeons =/= long cutscene dungeons. But yeah sure, you beat that strawman into the dirt there buddy.

No one said long cutscenes. If any cutscenes are required there can be a short one in the beginning and after the final boss you get to see the rest. I really feel that this can encourage FCs to go in with bigger groups and play together. I run a big social ls on hyperion and have a somewhat decent FC , eventhough as an FC leader I do take my time to do 5-7 levling roulettes when I only get rewarded once the least that can happen is that we can get more 8 man stuff so we can take in more people with us. Duty finder is a good thing but it also kills the entire point of the game because it makes the whole atmosphere of an mmorpg very unpersonal cause most of the time spent is afking somewhere on the world map waiting for a que to pop. If that is the future of this game we might as well get 8 man dungeons without cutscenes. I expected people to understand that I didnt want anything like main story stuff but now I aired that out.

The problem is you're assuming a "huge majority" of players want those 8 man dungeons, which has those long winded cutscenes that nobody wanted (especially uncapped version). But the devs saw that and said "LET'S PUT IN CUTSCENES IN ALL VERSIONS OF THE SAME DUNGEON CAPPED OR UNCAPPED LOLOLOL", which is what you're essentially asking for to happen (since those are the ONLY dungeons in game with unskippables).

You're not even asking for it to happen, and knowing square enix and their history of this, they'd put unskippables in it to discourage their player base.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

The problem is you're assuming a "huge majority" of players want those 8 man dungeons, which has those long winded cutscenes that nobody wanted (especially uncapped version). But the devs saw that and said "LET'S PUT IN CUTSCENES IN ALL VERSIONS OF THE SAME DUNGEON CAPPED OR UNCAPPED LOLOLOL", which is what you're essentially asking for to happen (since those are the ONLY dungeons in game with unskippables).

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That's not an inherent characteristic of an 8 man dungeon, that's just a blank assertion on your end.

I would be open to it. Although, I would want more content like BA, but easier to queue with premades, tbh

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

That's not an inherent characteristic of an 8 man dungeon, that's just a blank assertion on your end.

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Do you know any other dungeons 4 man, 8 man raids, trials or any other content that has unskippables so far? Don't worry, I'll wait for your answer. I didn't think you'd come up with one. Take the L.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Do you know any other dungeons 4 man, 8 man raids, trials or any other content that has unskippables so far? Don't worry, I'll wait for your answer. I didn't think you'd come up with one. Take the L.

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Just because there aren't doesn't mean there can't be, or that any future 8 mans have to have them. Cape Westwind, the original 8 man instance in the game, has a very longwinded opening cutscene, but not every 8 man trial has the same length opening cutscene.

Min ilvl Castrum was probably the most fun I've had in this game. Something between the simplicity of 4 man dungeons and the chaos of 24 mans.

I wouldn't be opposed to a more modern 8-man dungeon, maybe with some fleshed out mechanics that could work with eight people.

Part of the problem with Trials and Raids is that people suddenly go from 4-man to 8-man and don't know what they should be doing.

Having an 8-man dungeon or two could help teach people how to figure things out.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Just because there aren't doesn't mean there can't be, or that any future 8 mans have to have them.

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If it's not a raid that has loot, it's gonna get some unskippable cutscenes. That's been made apparent after that whole fiasco of msq. Nobody wants that happening a second, third or fourth time. In past Tokyo interviews over the last couple years, they've already stated they're not doing any more 8 man dungeons for MSQ related content. Doesn't make sense for dungeons since we already have the 4 man. Raid is 8 man with loot for DF. Trials have 8 man with loot. Alliance is 24 man, so that's out of the question. So it comes back to only one possibility, which is MSQ with no loot (which means unskippable cutscenes again).

Again no one said we want an 8 man dungeon cutscene roulette atmosphere like it is in the duty finder. It doesn't even need to be the final dungeon of the storyline that needs to have that much depths and even if it did we can get a tiny one in the beginning and get to see all when the dungeon is complete. Please stop searching for loopholes when there are none. The topic states that there are people who want more 8 man dungeon that will allows us to do more things together and if the que times are that bad try and set it up that it only needs 1 tank 1 healer and 6 dps? That can also be a thing if done right. The options are many. You can even add specific job restrictions to create something new maybe? Stop with the doomsday prophecies of what you've seen in past interview etc a change is always nice especially when we have had this rinse repeat formula for 4 years and accepted it like its the best thing on earth when its not.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

If it's not a raid that has loot, it's gonna get some unskippable cutscenes. That's been made apparent after that whole fiasco of msq. Nobody wants that happening a second, third or fourth time. In past Tokyo interviews over the last couple years, they've already stated they're not doing any more 8 man dungeons for MSQ related content. Doesn't make sense for dungeons since we already have the 4 man. Raid is 8 man with loot for DF. Trials have 8 man with loot. Alliance is 24 man, so that's out of the question. So it comes back to only one possibility, which is MSQ with no loot (which means unskippable cutscenes again).

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It really doesn't mean unskippable cutscenes again. There's nothing inherent about an 8 man dungeon besides being a dungeon that takes 8 people to do, and even regarding story in dungeons (4 man dungeons used to have long cutscenes during them--Toto Rak took a while introducing its final boss as an example. "But you can skip that cutscene!" You've been on this forum since 2014, you know very well that MSQ was skippable at one point too) they've been largely relegated to pre- and post-dungeon.

EDIT: Also there are plenty of 8 man trials with no loot. There are even 4 man trials with no loot. But no, it's impossible for them to vary it up at all.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

8-Man Dungeon = Unskippable Cutscene

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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...XGhqsg9_FpQqsJ

I wouldn't mind seeing a new 8 man dungeon or two. Just as long as it isn't buried in cut scenes like the main scenario. Though I think they'd have to make a new entry into DF for it if they were to even put it into the DF.

I'm pretty indifferent about 8 man dungeons. What I'd like to see is 8 man raids that aren't just trials by a different name (having a handful of adds thrown in before the boss arena doesn't make it a raid).
While one might argue that those are the same thing I hold raids to a higher standard of difficulty than simple dungeons.

If it's optional content then perhaps it could be something worth adding to the game, but it cannot be part of MSQ progression. Full parties allow room for more experimentation with duty challenges, as opposed to Light parties which are too small, and alliance parties which can be too difficult to coordinate everyone. So maybe it could be puzzle type dungeons where the party occasionally splits off in to light groups to help each other progress further and regroup for certain things, you know that kind of old school nostalgia that used to be common in previous titles. It could also be something like the Arsenal in Eureka, just on a smaller scale and more easily planned to run with others.

That’s a big no from me dawg

I just want unique dungeons and I don't see that happening with the 4 man standard.


Things like parties splitting to get things done and such, going in separate directions, or activating panels at the same time to open doors, things like that.

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Originally Posted by Freyt

I just want unique dungeons and I don't see that happening with the 4 man standard.


Things like parties splitting to get things done and such, going in separate directions, or activating panels at the same time to open doors, things like that.

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I was going to say something really similar to this actually. It needs to serve a purpose mechanic wise within the dungeons in order to be interesting. Standard A to B dungeons? Goodness gracious, no.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Do you know any other dungeons 4 man, 8 man raids, trials or any other content that has unskippables so far? Don't worry, I'll wait for your answer. I didn't think you'd come up with one. Take the L.

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The original Aurum Vale, Cutter’s Cry and, correct if im mistaken on this one, Dzhaemel Stronghold were all 8 man dungeons that didn’t really have cutscenes. They were pretty much just full dungeons scaled for 8-man with CC even having your party to split up between areas.

More than certain they could bring those designs up to the modern 2.0+ battle system and get something of note, hell bring back the bonus chests for speedrunning, killing certain and/or enemies and the like back to make dungeon glamour acquisition easier.