Content Finder

Hey, folks. I'm sorry if this has been brought up before, but a forum search didn't seem to yield a thread that was specifically about this subject.

What are your thoughts on this worldless content finder that Yoshi-P has mentioned? Do you think it will be good, bad, ugly, some combination of the three?

Generally speaking, I think we need a more intuitive system for finding/forming parties for specific tasks, but I'm not sure if a random and/or worldless model is a good idea. Games that do that tend to have higher incidences of player aggression and antisocial behavior. I'd like to hope that we would at least have the option of using it to only party with those of our own realm, as some of us would probably like to maintain a sense of community, something that is often lost when certain types of content finders are introduced to a game.

I hope that Yoshi-P will take this into account. I have such high hopes for the game, and I want to support SE as they work toward 2.0, but I don't want the game to suddenly go the route of certain other MMOs, in which severely atrocious behavior not only becomes the norm, but is also both expected and rewarded.

Make content finder for small casual group event, but keep large scale endgame guilds only with no option for finder.

Or make it where you can only use finder on easy mode stuff and cannot get the good gear using it. (Do the opposite of other games that reward you for not doing things with your guild)

Guilds need to be something more then a social chat channel in this game.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Make content finder for small casual group event, but keep large scale endgame guilds only with no option for finder.

Or make it where you can only use finder on easy mode stuff and cannot get the good gear using it. (Do the opposite of other games that reward you for not doing things with your guild)

Guilds need to be something more then a social chat channel in this game.

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Normally I would be totally against content finder, but by framing it like this, it sounds a lot better.

I'm all for content finder, both for low man and high man content.

Of course if its anything like "search" nobody will use it.

this game needs it, period. Too many people whining & sitting in town bored. People just want to log in & play.

This feature tends to lean more towards people who aren't in LS's, so i don't really care either way. Anything that keeps people out of town.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

this game needs it, period. Too many people whining & sitting in town bored. People just want to log in & play.

This feature tends to lean more towards people who aren't in LS's, so i don't really care either way. Anything that keeps people out of town.

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Yeah that's the real problem with it, it'll get rid of the true need for being in a linkshell because why organize anything with your shell if you can load up the content finder and pair off with whoever else is using it? People want more management options for linkshells, but are also in favor of keeping it as a social channel only.

This is why if it's limited, especially for low man (3 people group for example) it'll work fine for players who aren't in established shells yet, that way it keeps real raid content a thing for linkshells, basically the idea earlier in the thread, split up what the content finder would do (casual/easy content specific.)

Hate content finder, do not want ever.
Why play with people on your own server WHEN you can just play with people on other servers!?
Why orginize any events!?
Why even try to do anything?
Why make a charicter on this server, if your just going to play with others on a different server!?
Why make multi servers? Just put us all in one server!

Don't want, yoshi needs to stop this right now!

Rokien chances are large scale content will not be part of the content finder.

Even WoW doesn't have raids as part of the dungeon finder.

I think some of you forget that hours of waiting in FF11 in Jeuno and Whitegate.

I still dunno how this works. Do you change servers when using content finder?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Rokien chances are large scale content will not be part of the content finder.

Even WoW doesn't have raids as part of the dungeon finder.

I think some of you forget that hours of waiting in FF11 in Jeuno and Whitegate.

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I hardly waited on ffxi and I was a THF.

Also, it will be terrible for the community. People hardly talk as it is, now its going to be like.... WELL no need to shout for an ifrit fight, OR TALK AT ALL... let me just go to this finder deal here. Click a few buttons, oh good I'm fighting ifrit now!

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I think some of you forget that hours of waiting in FF11 in Jeuno and Whitegate.

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Nope, what I remember from FFXI:

-Log on
-See what time it is
-Got 2-3 hours to spare? Build a party, craft, farm or level a low level job for conquest points.
-Event time, gather together at (location)
-Run Event
-Next event, gather together at (location)
-Run event
-Events over for the day, finish what I started earlier
-log and sleep depending on day and event timing.

If anything, I remember running around most my time in FFXI lol.

What I think you meant to say was "I think some of you didn't have the same experience as I did in FFXI."

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Originally Posted by Antanias

I still dunno how this works. Do you change servers when using content finder?

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Depends purely if they do cross-server dungeons. You basically go into "limbo", which is why FFXI/XIV was one of the few MMOs that people cared about their server community because you're confined within your community (which seems to be a bad thing to newer MMO gamers) and you live out life with your fellow (server)ians. Cross-server basically takes out the need to build a stable community because you can just load up a finder and do it with anyone on any server.

So it works for people who just want to play a video game, not people who care for or bother with the community aspect of an MMO.

The only reason content finder ruined community aspect of an MMO is because in game like WoW you have many characters hence there is no real need to keep your reputation except 1 or 2 of your character. It's difference when you have only one character.

I am sure community will came out with Blacklists thread if cross-server dungeon content is ever implemented. I personally pro on content finder because it helps out alot of people especially when our subs number will never soar as much as WoW does.

Only thing bad I can really see about it, is it might lead to more ninja looting, especially if need/greed loot is put in place. People won't feel bad about taking something, if they go into an instance with people not of their server, and then return to their home server without anyone able to tell anyone what happened.

^ Another reason why need/greed system is terrible and why this idea is terrible~!

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

number will never soar as much as WoW does.

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Don't need to have subs of that of WoWs

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Don't need to have subs of that of WoWs

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Of course no, let's ignore the problem that FFXI faced, where some classes needed to wait hours for an invite to an exp party, whether it was because of the class or just timezone in general, it was definitely an issue.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Of course no, let's ignore the problem that FFXI faced, where some classes needed to wait hours for an invite to an exp party, whether it was because of the class or just timezone in general, it was definitely an issue.

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As I said in my previous post, I didn't have to wait for a party. I made my own, and took mostly up to 30mins to make. Not that long. I was a thf as well. Also with JP/EU/everyone else, you always had people on at all time to play with, not just 4-12

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Originally Posted by Rokien

As I said in my previous post, I didn't have to wait for a party. I made my own, and took mostly up to 30mins to make. Not that long. I was a thf as well. Also with JP/EU/everyone else, you always had people on at all time to play with, not just 4-12

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http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...96173ec1b9.jpg

Just because it wasn't issue to you, does not mean it wasn't issue for others, it was a well known issues for alot of people in FFXI, how can someone be so ignorant?

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...96173ec1b9.jpg

Just because it wasn't issue to you, does not mean it wasn't issue for others, it was a well known issues for alot of people in FFXI, how can someone be so ignorant?

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Well, we can see how it was an issue for you :D

Simple tip: Don't be a jerk. :D

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Originally Posted by Rokien

As I said in my previous post, I didn't have to wait for a party. I made my own, and took mostly up to 30mins to make. Not that long. I was a thf as well. Also with JP/EU/everyone else, you always had people on at all time to play with, not just 4-12

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Honestly he is not trolling cause i can't even count how many times i would see who is lfg around my lvl would be like 20 ppl and no one is trying to make an pt they just sit there and wait in jeuno.whitegate.

Hey Rokien, I welcome these changes, Content finder, need before greed, more like WoW this game is the better.

This post is srcastic

I think this is a good idea if done right. As long as people can't "ninja" loot it should be ok. Need before Greed though seems to have loop holes. Meh..I don't really care as long as I can just do this content with my usual low man group of friends. =P

In Forsaken World they have this system...sometimes people do still end up waiting a long time. If you are a healer though you get picked up instantly lol.

This is a great idea. You don't need to use it: you'll still have your LS, the party search function, your linkshell, and shouting. But if you log on, you're tired and want to do something exciting because you really don't have that much time, this is your knight in shining armor. It's as simple as that.

Cross server stuff: No thanks, I don't want to encourage the developers to have even more reasons to Instance everything.

First need content to find Orz.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

I think this is a good idea if done right. As long as people can't "ninja" loot it should be ok. Need before Greed though seems to have loop holes. Meh..I don't really care as long as I can just do this content with my usual low man group of friends. =P

In Forsaken World they have this system...sometimes people do still end up waiting a long time. If you are a healer though you get picked up instantly lol.

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Do you do porn?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Cross server stuff: No thanks, I don't want to encourage the developers to have even more reasons to Instance everything.

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I'm on the same page.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Even WoW doesn't have raids as part of the dungeon finder.

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When's the last time you played WoW? They added a raid finder for Dragon Soul. It's possible to go in and kill the final boss in less than an hour, if you play your cards right. At most, it might take a few hours, with no previous experience needed. The only reason to keep playing after that is to get more gear, gear that will be outdated by the time the next expansion is released. To me, this is a bad move. The game functions like an assembly line now, and there is no reason to play just for the sake of having fun, especially since everyone is rushing to get everything ASAP and is always in a horrible mood.

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Originally Posted by Answa

This is a great idea. You don't need to use it: you'll still have your LS, the party search function, your linkshell, and shouting. But if you log on, you're tired and want to do something exciting because you really don't have that much time, this is your knight in shining armor. It's as simple as that.

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I know what you're trying to say, but this line of thinking is flawed. Once something like this is introduced, it becomes standard. Everyone begins to do it that way, due to convenience, and it becomes nigh impossible to find groups the "normal" way. I still have my WoW account active, and I play it sometimes, but I pretty much switched to FFXIV because of how horrible WoW has become. I love my guildmates, but even they tend to do content finder before trying to make a guild group, because it's easier and it gets them rewards faster. Just about every guild I see handles things the same way. All anyone cares about is how quickly they can get the next best piece of gear, so they can wear it while dancing on a mailbox, and they will do ANYTHING in order to get it. This usually includes fighting with people from the moment they enter a randomly assigned dungeon, if they choose to talk at all.

There are some things WoW does right, and I think FFXIV should pick up on those. Mostly in the area of the UI, questing, and a few other things. I'd like to hope that everything else that makes FF what it is will stay, such as attunements, the necessity to work well with others, and the slower pace. Part of what has ruined WoW is the spastic speed at which everything occurs. It ramps people up and makes them not only aggressive, but they expect everything to be handed to them instantly. Add-ons are another issue, and I really hope nothing like Deadly Boss Mods or DPS counters are allowed. That will create even more aggressive behavior and put the devs on a path to making content more and more convoluted.

If they are reading this, I hope they are able to learn from WoW, both by what Blizzard has done well and what they have screwed up. A 100% WoW clone would be a disaster.

I know everyone is afraid of all these potential issues & linkshells becoming obsolete. The community becoming jackasses etc.
(tl;dr, see bottom of post)


The truth however is you still WANT a linkshell. Just cause you can queue up, doesn't mean you have to be solo (ideally).
Maybe you get in a party with 6/8 of your linkshell (because for some reason those 2 people can't make it today) & queue together.

Linkshell/Free-Companies will have there own benefits anyway. Also, Having a core LS to do the hard-mode content will always appeal over a random search for endgame content.
If it's not an event day & you're bored, you can still do content as well.
(this shouldn't even phase linkshells or hardcore players at all)



Now anyone can login & queue up for leveling, dungeons, raids, PvP (etc) without the game becoming a stagnant town-snooze amidst mindless crafters & troll shouting (hello Port Jeuno).

Overall, this will be great for casuals & easy to enjoy the game. Just like how the casuals whined at us for PLing & we told them they don't have to use it, well...


Content finder appeals to the instanced dungeon/raid/PvP model. It's applicable in those areas & complements it. When the game content becomes only that, then you should be worried (let's not turn the game into Vinductus).

There's still the open world too. Where content finder might not work or be limited to just the server you're on.



Assuming SE can even implement content finder correctly. For all we know, they'll half-ass it as usual & it'll be a clunky mess that no one will use.

We're ahead of ourselves anyway. This system won't be out until sometime after 2.0. Best to check back then.





tl;dr
Content Finder won't obsolete Linkshells or Free Company's
We still need good groups for challenging content & friends.
Will help stop the boring AFK in town.
Great for Casuals & anyone looking to just play (esp. to learn content).
Similar to telling people they don't HAVE to PL to 50, we don't have to queue up
We have an Open World. Instances aren't the entire game.
Complain if the devs make the entire RELEVANT endgame only this.
This won't be until after 2.0, check back later.

We really should be having this discussion now, while they are still working on the 2.0 client. If we don't let Yoshi-P know what we think, he can't even consider our suggestions.

MMOs are nothing new, and we have a lot of evidence to look at in terms of their sociology. It is important to learn from the past, and take it seriously, so that we do not repeat the same mistakes in the future.

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Originally Posted by Rousseau

We really should be having this discussion now, while they are still working on the 2.0 client. If we don't let Yoshi-P know what we think, he can't even consider our suggestions.

MMOs are nothing new, and we have a lot of evidence to look at in terms of their sociology. It is important to learn from the past, and take it seriously, so that we do not repeat the same mistakes in the future.

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^Agree. They really should work their SE magic to make this similar to other MMO's while not focusing all relevant content around this. Dare i even suggest adding fatigue or linking CF to Anima?




Also as of now, people don't even talk (not really). You see everyone off doing their own thing, solo (which is what so many people are saying will happen if they add this, so its the same thing either way).

The most active is usually during events, in teamspeak/ventrillo especially. Which is good, but on those off days where hardly anything is going on, it would be nice to just queue up & go do something fun.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

Also as of now, people don't even talk (not really). You see everyone off doing their own thing, solo (which is what so many people are saying will happen if they add this, so its the same thing either way).

The most active is usually during events, in teamspeak/ventrillo especially. Which is good, but on those off days where hardly anything is going on, it would be nice to just queue up & go do something fun.

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I don't want to start another server battle, but it might be worthy of note that not all servers are like this... and server activity is bound to go up after the merge, and after 2.0 the population of a server will be even higher, hopefully.

Hmm. I wouldn't say that people soloing is inherently bad. The problem is when players begin being rude to one another, telling each other to commit suicide because they don't have the best gear, have a different opinion, aren't fast enough, etc. These are issues I see most often in random groups in WoW, not when people are out soloing quests. Sometimes even trying to be friendly when joining a group is enough to get you cursed at or even vote kicked.

Everyone should be able to go play the game quietly and just chill, if they so desire. What matters is that they are polite, decent community members when they ARE in a social environment with others. In order to keep that in a game, it is important to have reasons for people to communicate, plan, and seek advice/help from others on occasion. It doesn't need to be all the time, just often enough. Making a game too automated is what tends to result in a decline of civility, as people begin to view each other as tools, not neighbors. That's all I'm really concerned with, after witnessing it happen in a game that decided to put subscription numbers above the actual quality of their world. Convenience brings in the money, but it also cheapens the experience and makes everyone miserable.

i agree dont' want it to affect the gameplay and open world or community. in general though i don't consider 8man content endgame, it's extra stuff to me. it should be easy for all to do. but in general i like statics for it but ...if a content finder is in place i don't think it would be a bad idea for this type of content. for bcnm's and anything that involves small man to do. as for KS runs that take full large groups or sky, sea dynamisis or even limbus ...then yeah it's not like they will have one for these things. later i am only assuming mroe and more endgame will become larger pve scale like the one yoshi was talkign about being after 2.0 and ishgard saying over 40players at a time.

it don't hurt and especially i think it needs to be implemented for pvp type stuff ....take ffxi pvp ..it would of still years later been in use if it had a simple que for it and not force people to run zone to zone for them ...find people to do them with cause they were empty ..lot of work for those ....it's why it died out...it's not like it wasn't fun it was.

i guess i see it as...if this mmo is going the route of other mmo's and only plans on small man endgame, it's got bigger problems then the content finder. it helps for small groupings, specially since linkshells or not 8man is 8man and it's not like theres 3 or 4 or 5 ifrit or moogle fights happening all at same time with same linkshell right? people don't take that effort right now and i doubt ever will for small man dungeons. so it helps gather players easily.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

I don't want to start another server battle, but it might be worthy of note that not all servers are like this... and server activity is bound to go up after the merge, and after 2.0 the population of a server will be even higher, hopefully.

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I'm sure some servers are more than others. But overall i bet it still feels just as dead almost everywhere.

It's not like there are completely 0 shouts, there's still Spiritbond/leveling & the occasional ifrit/moogle every so often.
I've actually been surprised seeing them this late in the patches life. Since most people afk till next patch.


Regardless, it's too hard & early to tell if this enhancement will be a detriment to the 2.0 crowd and onwards.
It's starting to become an expected feature either way in the MMO "get up & go" direction as of late.

I believe this type of system will be good, but should have some kind of limitations for the cross-server aspect. Be it fatigue(Anima?) or only targeting specific content.

Not much else to say, so I'll leave you guys to it. ^^

Personally i would be content if they had the search system from FFXI and the dungeon queue finder system from WoW, Also WoW has an interesting way to deal with ninja's. Loot is defined by the class/role in which uses it and only those that use it can roll Need on it. I never had any problems with the search system FFXI had because i always started my own party, but that doesn't change the fact that some ppl just don't have the guts to put their selves out there and try to start something.. Some ppl prefer to follow and take orders. I believe for SE to be successful they need to give both groups a good system that can either help them make new friends to play with or just give them the shortest route to their content.

In this day and age ppl have far less patience and even less ppl skills. As a business SE has to adapt to that.

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Originally Posted by Rousseau

When's the last time you played WoW? They added a raid finder for Dragon Soul. It's possible to go in and kill the final boss in less than an hour, if you play your cards right. At most, it might take a few hours, with no previous experience needed. The only reason to keep playing after that is to get more gear, gear that will be outdated by the time the next expansion is released. To me, this is a bad move. The game functions like an assembly line now, and there is no reason to play just for the sake of having fun, especially since everyone is rushing to get everything ASAP and is always in a horrible mood.

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Oh really ?

Sounds good to me, I am in favour of MMO's that are gear progressive, people in my LS have been wanting to do In to the Dark for months now and nobody is interested in going in there, this is exactly why a dungeon finder would be helpful.

As someone above said nobody is forcing anyone to use this.

Of course if everyone does start to rely on it then it means people want to use it.

I used to play WoW also I'm not fooling myself like you though that the reason I left had anything to do with the dungeon finder, the game has just become old and boring that's all.

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Add-ons are another issue, and I really hope nothing like Deadly Boss Mods or DPS counters are allowed

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We already have parsers and there is a good chance someone will programme an addon to shout out messages onscreen when it is detected in the battle log.

Again if you and the community hate them so much you won't need to use them.

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That will create even more aggressive behavior and put the devs on a path to making content more and more convoluted.

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SE don't need any help with that I assure you, just check out the primal loot system.

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We really should be having this discussion now, while they are still working on the 2.0 client. If we don't let Yoshi-P know what we think, he can't even consider our suggestions

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The 2.0 servers and game engine are all but finished, I doubt Yoshi-p will go back on this now.

I like OP's idea. Content finder ftw!

I'm againts content(dungeon) finder type systems, probably cause I've seen the worst of what thoose systems can bring.
And as others have said it just promotes a more instanced based game in which case I question what it being a MMO even is the point.

All in all, lets have some real content first before we need to worry about weather getting a finder for it will be neccessary or not?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Oh really ?

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Ah, what a wonderful way to begin...

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Originally Posted by Jinko

As someone above said nobody is forcing anyone to use this.

Of course if everyone does start to rely on it then it means people want to use it.

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Wrong. People do what they feel they need to in order to compete. That is how people think. Create a free-for-all, and people take the easiest road, which is not necessarily the best for the entire group. Just because people want something does not mean they should be allowed to have it.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Sounds good to me, I am in favour of MMO's that are gear progressive, people in my LS have been wanting to do In to the Dark for months now and nobody is interested in going in there, this is exactly why a dungeon finder would be helpful.

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I used to play WoW also I'm not fooling myself like you though that the reason I left had anything to do with the dungeon finder, the game has just become old and boring that's all.

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See, this attitude is the very kind that I wish would stay in WoW and not begin to infect FFXIV. We don't need things that are going to make it easy for this sort of thinking and behavior to spread around and be rewarded.

Also, if you are having trouble getting help from your LS, maybe you should join another. We're allowed to be a member of eight, so it's not like you can't try to find another that contains people who are interested in doing what you want. Just like in FFXI, people had an LS for each kind of activity they wanted to engage in, and now you can see the chatter of all of them at once. If that doesn't work, wait for the merge and learn to be content with what you do have.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

SE don't need any help with that I assure you, just check out the primal loot system.

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Loot systems do not make up an entire encounter. If you think they do, then that is yet another example I shall point to as to the wrong-headed thinking that will destroy this game. "It's all about me and my loot, screw everyone else!" Yeah, no thanks. I'll be over here simply trying to have fun with other people in my community, working together to accomplish similar goals and helping them with whatever I can...because that is what I believe should be at the core of a game like this, and nothing else. Feel free to have a different opinion, but I want nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

The 2.0 servers and game engine are all but finished, I doubt Yoshi-p will go back on this now.

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If Blizzard is capable of adding and removing features each patch, then SE can do it before a new client is released. It's not that difficult. Stop trying to discourage those who actually want an environment that isn't full of sociopathic jerks who do nothing but try to clamor over each other for the next best piece of gear, like people at Walmart do on Black Friday.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

All in all, lets have some real content first before we need to worry about weather getting a finder for it will be neccessary or not?

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Yoshi-P has already started to talk about it, hence why I brought it up. I think it's better to discuss and consolidate suggestions now, rather than wait until it's completely finished.

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Originally Posted by Rousseau

Also, if you are having trouble getting help from your LS, maybe you should join another. .

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I did it months ago, I said people in my LS wanted to do it, yes I'm willing to help them, my LS is awesome for what its worth.

The problem at the moment is that hardly anyone is playing, not just in my LS but across the board, which makes content like DH difficult to do.

1. Because people are not motivated to do it due to the drops being useless since the addition of Materia.
2. Not enough people playing to make up a decent party.

Both of which can be circumvented with a content finder.

But yea you go ahead and pick out the negative points in my post, we don't want people like me playing FFXIV.. "go play wow!!"

I sure told myself.

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Stop trying to discourage those who actually want an environment that isn't full of sociopathic jerks.

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Is this supposed to be irony :P ?

My point was !!, that the server structure has been designed in clusters which is what will allow cross server interaction, you think after all that hard work they are just guna say ahhh screw this just because a few people don't want it..

What about the people who do want it ?

For all the effort you put into deconstructing my post you sure are close minded, but as long as you are happy right ?